Dr. Gregory Rogers の証言 : 1992年に空軍基地の格納庫で UFO の動画映像を見た ⇒ この謎を推測する

2025年6月30日 · 約142分

前置き

いわゆる UFO 目撃者の内部告発動画のひとつ。

証言の核心部分はここにまとめた。

彼のこの証言の謎につての私の推測はここにまとめた。

情報源 : Youtube 動画(2:08:56)

We Got It From Them-NASA Flight Surgeon's 1992 Cape Canaveral UFO Encounter

静止画

ロジャーズ博士: 目撃された空飛ぶ円盤

この音声記録は、ロジャーズ博士によるポッドキャストインタビューの一部で、ホストはクリス・レートです。

ロジャーズ博士は、1992年にケープカナベラルでUFOを目撃した体験を語っており、それは「空飛ぶ円盤」として詳細に描写されています。元NASAのフライトサージョンであり、F-16パイロットでもある彼の卓越した経歴と、その証言の信頼性が強調されています。

彼は、デビッド・グラッシュやフレイバー司令官といった他の証言者から影響を受け、引退後にこの体験を公表する準備ができたと述べています。

詳細ブリーフィングドキュメント：UFO、脳損傷、航空の安全性、および政府の透明性

このブリーフィングドキュメントは、グレゴリー・ロジャース博士へのポッドキャストインタビューの抜粋をレビューし、以下の主要なテーマを強調します。

ロジャース博士の未確認航空現象（UAP）目撃とそれを取り巻く状況

1992年のUAP目撃: ロジャース博士は1992年、ケープカナベラルで「空飛ぶ円盤」を目撃したと証言しています。この出来事は彼のキャリアの中でわずか15分の出来事でしたが、彼の世界観を完全に変えました。彼は「米国空軍」の文字とアメリカの飛行機章が描かれた、縫い目や窓のない真珠のような白い楕円形の機体を目撃しました。機体は床から3フィートの高さまで浮上し、360度時計回りに回転し、その後反時計回りに回転し、左右、前後に移動しました。最も衝撃的だったのは、45度の迎角に移動しても「1センチメートルも動かなかった」ことです。これは従来の航空機の能力とは大きく異なります。彼はこの機体が「非人間的技術」によって製造されたと考えています。
機密保持と情報開示: 目撃後、同僚の少佐から「誰にも見せたことを言わないでください」と忠告され、ロジャース博士は軍事における情報共有のリスクを認識したため、33年間この目撃について沈黙を守りました。彼は、「もし私がこの男を報告したら、彼らを報告しなければならないだろう」と述べ、自身のキャリアへの悪影響を懸念しました。しかし、デビッド・グラッシュやコマンダー・フレイバーのようなUAP目撃者の証言に触発され、引退後の2024年5月に公に語り始めました。彼の話は急速に広まり、世界中で注目を集めました。
非人間的な技術とリバースエンジニアリング: ロジャース博士は、1992年に目撃した機体が「地球外からの非人間的な技術」に由来すると信じています。彼は、もし1947年以降に非人間の乗り物を回収していたとしても、その材料科学、高度なコンピューターシステム、および技術が人類にとって完全に未知であるため、リバースエンジニアリングには長い時間がかかるだろうと推測しています。彼は、2004年のティク・タクUAP（米海軍パイロットが目撃）も「本物であり、非人間的な知性によって制御されていた」と信じています。

航空における脳損傷：F-16パイロットと海軍SEALs

Gフォースと脳への影響: ロジャース博士は、F-18スーパーホーネットのパイロットや海軍SEALsが経験する繰り返しの衝撃やGフォースが、脳に深刻な損傷を与えるという懸念を表明しています。彼は「脳は濃いゼリーのような一貫性」を持っていると述べ、サッカー選手やアメリカンフットボール選手が頭をぶつけたり、爆発にさらされたりしたときに起こるのと同様に、航空機が極端なGフォース下で機動すると、脳が頭蓋骨の中で前後に揺れること（クー・アンド・コントレクー傷害）によって損傷を受けると説明しています。
「プロジェクト・オーディンズ・アイ」と既存の知識: 米海軍が「プロジェクト・オーディンズ・アイ」という機密プロジェクトを立ち上げ、F-18スーパーホーネットのパイロットの脳機能に関する詳細なデータを収集して、極限飛行の累積的影響を評価していることについて、ロジャース博士は「この研究や調査は、何が起こっているかを私に伝える必要はない」と断言しています。彼は1980年代初頭に医学生だった頃から、これらの種類の脳損傷について知っていたと指摘しています。
脳損傷の不可避性: ロジャース博士は、現在のところ人間の脳を変えることができない限り、Gフォースによる脳の揺れから保護するメカニズムはないと考えています。「頭蓋骨は固体です。頭蓋骨の片側を打つと、頭蓋骨の反対側は停止しますが、その間の脳は前後に跳ね返ります。」彼は、これにより多くのベテランパイロットが「若い頃のようにうまく考えられない」と訴え、頭痛などの症状を経験していると指摘しています。

飛行外科医の役割と航空安全文化

飛行外科医の進化: ロジャース博士は、かつてはパイロットを飛行停止させることに熱心な「ジャーク」な飛行外科医もいたと述べていますが、自身のキャリアの後半には文化が変化し、飛行外科医が飛行隊に「統合され」、パイロットが安全に飛行できるよう「本当に興味を持つようになった」と感じています。
パイロットの健康管理の重要性: ロジャース博士は、パイロットの健康管理の重要性を強調するため、低血糖によって失神しかけたパイロットの事例を挙げ、その原因がサプリメントの摂取であったことを突き止め、最終的にパイロットを飛行任務に復帰させた経験を語っています。彼はまた、NASAで緑色のケミカルライトへの切り替えに1年半かかったという事例を挙げ、救助隊の視認性の重要性を訴えています。
安全と管理の対立: ロジャース博士は、NASAのマネージャーが安全担当者のアドバイスを聞かず、スペースシャトルの修理キットを携行させなかったことなど、安全プロトコルが管理層によって無視される事例があったことを強く批判しています。彼は、コロンビア号の悲劇は、「NASAのマネージャーがマネージャーらしく行動し、安全担当者が言ったことに従わないことを選択した」ために起こったと示唆しています。
飛行外科医の役割と経験: 飛行外科医は単なる医師ではなく、パイロットの仕事環境を完全に理解し、それに応じて医療上の決定を下す必要があると説明しています。彼はヘリコプターやF-16を操縦した経験があり、パイロットが直面する具体的な課題を理解していることが、彼らの健康と安全を守る上で不可欠であると強調しています。

政府の透明性と情報公開の必要性

「何も見るものはない」という姿勢への批判: ロジャース博士は、政府がUAP情報について国民から隠蔽していることを、「ネイキッド・ガン」のフランク・ドレビン警部が「何も見るものはない」と言いながら背後で花火工場が爆発しているシーンになぞらえて批判しています。「それが私たちの政府がし続けていることです。」
情報公開の動機: デビッド・グラッシュやコマンダー・フレイバーのような人々が情報公開に踏み切ったことに触発され、ロジャース博士も自身のUAP目撃談を公にしました。彼は、「さらに一人でも前に出て自分の真実の物語を語るたびに、フランク・ドレビンが『何も見るものはない』と言うのがますます難しくなる」と述べています。
国家の秘密保持の戦略: ホストは、ポルトガルが新世界への航路を秘密にしたように、国家は常に技術的優位性を秘密にしてきた歴史を指摘しています。しかし、ホストは、この秘密主義が「長期的に実行可能な戦略であるとは思わない」と問いかけ、情報が「世界に本当に良い影響を与える」可能性がある場合、それを隠し続けることの倫理を疑問視しています。
議会での証言への意欲: ロジャース博士は、議会で証言する意思があることを表明していますが、「もし議会の前に私を置くなら、私は自分が信じることを話します。だから、もし特定のことを言ってほしいなら、それは私ではありません。気にする必要はありません。もし行くなら、私は自分が思うことを話します。」

##結論

ロジャース博士の証言は、UAPの現実性、高G飛行が人体に与える深刻な影響、航空安全文化の重要性、そして政府の透明性欠如といった複数の重要なテーマを浮き彫りにしています。彼の高い信頼性と技術的知識は、UAP現象に対する彼の証言に大きな重みを与え、政府にさらなる情報公開を促すものとなっています。

脳への損傷に関する彼の知見は、軍事航空におけるパイロットの長期的な健康への懸念を強調し、現在の研究プロジェクトの必要性を再確認しています。全体として、このブリーフィングは、政府の機密保持の伝統と、国民への情報公開を求める声との間の緊張を示しています。

タイムライン

1980年7月3日：

グレゴリー・ロジャーズ博士が軍に入隊。

1980年代初頭：

ロジャーズ博士が医学生としてクー・コントルクー損傷について学ぶ。

1980年代後半：

ロジャーズ博士が西ドイツに配属され、OH-58ヘリコプターでルート・イエローを飛行中に、パイロットの友人とともに釣りの場所を探して小川を低空飛行する。また、ヒューイヘリコプターでナパ・オブ・ザ・アース飛行中に、黄色の花の畑を通過し、一時的にJP4や油圧の匂いではなく花の匂いに包まれる体験をする。

1980年代：

ロジャーズ博士がアラモゴルドの空軍基地でGトレーニングに参加し、F-16のプロファイルを体験する。

1992年：

日付不明：ケープ・カナベラルで、ロジャーズ博士が「フライングソーサー」のビデオを偶然目撃する。その物体はNASAのハンガーのような場所でテストされており、米国空軍のマーキングとアメリカの航空機記章が付いていた。物体は3フィート浮上し、360度時計回り、反時計回りに回転し、左右、前後にも移動し、45度の攻撃角度を取る。これは、非人間的な技術による逆行工学された飛行機、あるいは請負業者によるテスト中の試作機であった可能性が示唆される。この出来事を目撃した後、ロジャーズ博士は直属の上官に報告しないことを選択し、15年間妻にも話さない。
日付不明：ロジャーズ博士がルーク空軍基地でF-16の「ダラーライド」を行い、パイロットが意図的に彼の吐き気を催させようとするが、彼はヘリコプターでの低空飛行の経験から吐かない。

1993年：

ロジャーズ博士が宇宙船に関する小説『インパクト』を執筆。NASAの管理者が宇宙飛行士に修理キットを提供しないことを批判する。

1995年：

ロジャーズ博士の小説『インパクト』が出版される。バズ・オルドリンがこの本を読み、ヒュー・ハリスにロジャーズ博士について尋ねる。

日付不明（ロジャーズ博士のキャリア中）：

ロジャーズ博士がパトリック空軍基地に勤務中、ブギーボードで腕を負傷した海軍のパイロットを治療し、病欠にすることなく縫合する。また、宇宙飛行士の救助活動のために、赤色ケミカルライトから緑色ケミカルライトへの切り替えをNASAに1年半かけて説得する。

2004年：

ロジャーズ博士がパイロットとして飛行を開始。この頃までに、飛行外科医は飛行隊に統合され、パイロットを安全に飛行させ続けることに重点を置く文化の変化が起きる。

日付不明（ロジャーズ博士のキャリア中）：

ヴァン・エアー・フォース・ベースで、ロジャーズ博士が高度チャンバーで意識を失ったパイロットを治療する。このパイロットは低血糖症であり、彼はサプリメントの摂取をやめるよう指導し、後にこのパイロットは再び飛行できるようになる。この出来事は、AETC司令部と戦術航空司令部に回覧され、パイロットにGNCで購入した製品がキャリアを危険にさらす可能性があることを警告する。

2023年11月：

ロジャーズ博士が海軍専門能力開発シンポジウムの司令官シャールに連絡し、UAPに関する講演を許可される。彼は講演資料を作成し、承認を得る。

2024年4月：

海軍専門能力開発シンポジウムでUAPに関する講演を行う。

2024年4月30日：

ロジャーズ博士が引退する。

2024年5月5日：

ロジャーズ博士の録音されたプレゼンテーションとインタビューが公開され、すぐにインターネット上で拡散する。彼はグローバルなメディアの注目を集め、数多くのインタビューを行う。

日付不明（2024年5月以降）：

ロジャーズ博士が「コンタクト・イン・ザ・デザート」会議に出席し、他のUFO研究者たちと交流する。

登場人物

グレゴリー・ロジャーズ博士 (Dr. Gregory Rogers)：

米空軍の元飛行外科医であり、NASAの飛行外科医として31回のスペースシャトルミッションを担当。F-16のパイロットでもあり、「トップナイフ」プログラムにも参加した。ヘリコプターでの飛行経験も豊富。
1992年にケープ・カナベラルで謎の「フライングソーサー」のビデオを目撃。
その卓越した技術的知識と信頼性から、「航空宇宙医学の絶対的な頂点」と評される。
33年間沈黙を守ってきたが、デビッド・グラッシュやコマンダー・フレイバーといった証人たちに触発され、2024年5月に自身の目撃談を公表した。
軍の規則や管理者の決定に異議を唱えることを恐れない、誠実な人物として描かれている。
現在は退役し、マカリスター陸軍弾薬工廠で14年間勤務していた。
著書にスペースシャトルに関する小説『インパクト』がある。

クリス・レト (Chris Lehto)：

ポッドキャストのホストであり、F-16パイロット（「バイパードライバー」）。
ロジャーズ博士の経験と信頼性に深い敬意を抱いており、彼の物語を世に広めることに貢献している。
ロジャーズ博士との対話を通じて、飛行外科医とパイロットの間の特別な絆を強調している。

コマンダー・フレイバー (Commander Fravor)：

海軍のパイロット。自身のUAP目撃談（Tic Tac UAP事件）を公表しており、ロジャーズ博士が自身の物語を語るきっかけの一つとなった。

デビッド・グラッシュ (David Grush)：

UAPに関する内部告発者。彼の証言が、ロジャーズ博士が自身の体験を語る動機付けとなった。

ヒュー・ハリス (Hugh Harris)：

ケネディ宇宙センターの広報部長。ロジャーズ博士の著書を読んだバズ・オルドリンからの問い合わせに応対した。

バズ・オルドリン (Buzz Aldrin)：

著名な宇宙飛行士。ロジャーズ博士の著書『インパクト』を読み、彼に興味を持った。

チャック・ホーナー (Chuck Horner)：

空軍の四つ星将軍。砂漠の嵐作戦における航空部隊司令官でもあった。ロジャーズ博士の「優秀勤務メダル」に署名した人物。

司令官シャール (Commander Schall)：

海軍専門能力開発シンポジウムの司令官。ロジャーズ博士にUAPに関する講演を許可した。

タイラー・ロバーツ (Tyler Roberts)：

「トータルディスクロージャー」の一員であり、インターナショナルUFOビューローのメンバー。ロジャーズ博士の物語を公表する手助けをした。

ミンディ・トプフェス (Mindy Topfess)：

インターナショナルUFOビューローの代表。

ドクター・スミス (Doc Smith)：

クリス・レトの記憶にある、彼と彼の家族を助けた素晴らしい飛行外科医。

（名前不明の）メジャー：

1992年にケープ・カナベラルでロジャーズ博士に「フライングソーサー」のビデオを見せた人物。彼はビデオが分類されていないと主張したが、状況は異例だった。

（名前不明の）海軍のパイロット：

ヴァン・エアー・フォース・ベースの高度チャンバーで低血糖症により意識を失い、ロジャーズ博士の治療を受けた人物。サプリメント摂取による問題が判明した。
パトリック空軍基地でブギーボード中に腕を負傷し、ロジャーズ博士に治療された海軍の航空兵。

（名前不明の）F-16パイロット：

ロジャーズ博士の「ダラーライド」で彼を「吐かせよう」としたパイロット。飛行外科医に吐かせることが伝統だと主張した。

（名前不明の）ヒューイパイロット：

フットボール中に肩を負傷し、ロジャーズ博士に診察された人物。肩の怪我のため燃料遮断スイッチに手が届かず、飛行が一時的に禁止された。

（名前不明の）フレンチー (Frenchies)：

ロジャーズ博士のクリニックのシニアNCO（下士官）。

（名前不明の）以前の飛行外科医：

飛行資格を剥奪したパイロットの数を聴診器に記録していたとされる人物。ロジャーズ博士は彼を「いけ好かないやつ」と表現している。

ロジャーズ博士の経験と洞察のより大きな文脈において、これらのソースが UAP/UFO目撃 (1992年) について何を言おうとしているのかを議論してください。

ロジャーズ博士の経験と洞察というより大きな文脈において、1992年のUAP/UFO目撃に関する情報源が何を伝えようとしているのかについて、以下に議論します。

ロジャーズ博士の信頼性と背景

ロジャーズ博士は、31回のスペースシャトルミッションでNASAのフライトサージョンを務め、F-16パイロットであり、トップナイフプログラムにも参加し、様々なヘリコプターを操縦した、40年以上にわたり最先端の技術に触れてきた人物です。

彼の専門知識は「百科事典的」と形容され、その信頼性は「揺るぎない」とされています。また、海軍専門能力開発シンポジウムで専門家講師を務めたり、砂漠の嵐作戦で空軍司令官を務めたチャック・ホーナー将軍の署名が入った「功績メダル」を授与されたり、スペースシャトル・アトランティスで飛んだ旗を贈呈されたりするなど、その経歴は非常に輝かしいものです。

彼の指揮官が彼を「世界を救うことはできない」と言って、彼が正直な意見を述べることを恐れて国防長官との面会を阻止したエピソードは、彼の高い誠実さを示しています。

1992年のUAP目撃の詳細

1992年、ロジャーズ博士はケープカナベラル空軍基地のハンガー内で、自身が**「空飛ぶ円盤」**と呼ぶものを目撃しました。

目撃状況:

宇宙船アクセスウェイの点検中、同行者と別れた数分後、少佐が彼に「君ですら見たことのないものがある」と声をかけ、施錠されたコンピューター室に案内しました。そこでロジャーズ博士は、分類マークや場所、日時などの情報が一切ないコンピューター画面で、ハンガー中央に置かれたUAPの映像を見ました。

機体の特徴:

映像に映っていた機体は**「真珠のような白色」で、継ぎ目、リベット、窓、ドアなどは一切なく、まるで「修正された卵」のようでした。後に、この機体は長さ約6メートル、高さ約3メートル**であったと明かされています。
上部には小さな突起があり、そこから**マストが突き出ていて、3本のへそ状のケーブル（アンビリカル）が伸びていました。ロジャーズ博士は、このアンビリカルは、この機体が日常的な使用にはまだ準備ができていない「試験用機体（テストベッド）」**であることを示唆していると考えており、おそらく外部からの電力供給や遠隔操縦が必要だったと推測しています。
機体には、移動を監視するために平らな黒い四角形（水平および垂直）が複数描かれており、例えば3時、6時、9時、12時の位置に見られました。機体が回転すると、その上に描かれた**「U.S. Air Force」の文字とアメリカの飛行記章**も見えました。

機体の能力:

機体は「羽のように」地面から約90cm浮上し、そのまま静止しました。
次に、時計回りに360度、続いて反時計回りに360度回転し、元の位置に戻りました。
左右、前後にも移動しました。
さらに驚くべきことに、45度の攻撃角に傾いても、わずか1センチメートルも移動しませんでした。ロジャーズ博士は、固定翼機も回転翼機もこのような動きは不可能であるため、この能力に最も衝撃を受けました。
**「電磁放電」**も確認されましたが、その特性は非常に特異で、常に同じ場所から発生するわけではなく、機体からその発生源が確認できなかったため、ロジャーズ博士は詳細な説明を控えています。これは、そのメカニズムがより高度な機体にも使用されており、米国の敵対勢力に利益を与える情報を開示したくないためです。

少佐の発言:

少佐は「これは彼らから得たものだ」と述べ、地球外の非人間的な技術を示唆しました。

目撃時間:

ロジャーズ博士はこの映像を約15分間見ました。

沈黙の理由と開示の決断

ロジャーズ博士は、目撃後、すぐに国防総省関係者や家族にも話すことを避けました。

沈黙の理由: 映像には分類表示がなかったものの、これを報告した場合、セキュリティや指揮系統に報告し、最終的には将軍にまで話が伝わり、自身の経歴に悪い影響を及ぼす可能性があると考えました。彼は、軍の指揮系統では「肛門物質」が素早く上に移動する傾向があると感じ、「すべての結果が悪くなる」と判断しました。そのため、多くのパイロットと同様に、彼はこの出来事を「無視する」ことを選択しました。妻にさえ15年間は話さず、国防総省と関係がある間は、この話をすることで生じるであろう影響を冒したくなかったと述べています。
開示の決断: ロジャーズ博士は、退職したらこの話をするつもりだと長年考えていました。その決意を後押ししたのは、海軍がUAPの映像を公開し始め、パイロットたちの声のトーンからそれが「実際のUAP」であると確信したことでした。特に、デビッド・グラッシュやコマンダー・フレイバーといった目撃者たちの証言に触発され、彼らが「知っているのに前に出られない人々」について語ったことが、彼自身の沈黙を破る決定打となりました。
公的な開示: 2024年4月30日に退職した彼は、同年4月24日に海軍専門能力開発シンポジウムでUAPに関する講演を行い、軍の指揮官や広報担当者から正式な許可を得ていました。彼の話は5月5日に公開されると**「爆発的な人気」**を博し、Googleで検索数1位、Redditで3日間1位を記録するなど、世界中で大きな注目を集めました。

UAPに関するロジャーズ博士の洞察と理論

非人間的な起源とリバースエンジニアリング: 少佐が「彼らから得た」と述べたことから、ロジャーズ博士は機体が非人間的な技術に由来すると信じています。そして、彼が目撃した機体は、**契約業者またはコンソーシアムが所有する「試験用機体」**であり、空軍にその能力を示すためにテストされていた可能性が高いと見ています。
彼の目撃は、ボブ・ラザーが非人間的な宇宙船のリバースエンジニアリングに関する情報を公開したわずか3年後の出来事でした。ロジャーズ博士は、彼が目撃した機体がラザーの言う**「スポーツモデル」に酷似していた**と述べています。
彼は、たとえ非人間的な乗り物を回収したとしても、高度な材料科学やコンピューターシステム、未知の技術のため、それを再現するには非常に長い時間が必要であり、1992年時点ではまだ「初期段階」にあったと考えています。

Tic Tacとの比較:

ロジャーズ博士はTic Tacの映像も見ており、自身が目撃した機体と「少しデザインが違うだけ」で似ていると感じています。
しかし、**Tic Tacはリバースエンジニアリングされたものではなく、「非人間的な知能によって制御された本物」だと考えています。その理由は、Tic Tacが「再現不可能な操縦能力」**を示したためです。彼は、F-22を1914年の技術者に与えても理解も再現もできないだろうというアナロジーを用いて、その技術的な隔たりを説明しています。

広範な意味合いと情報の隠蔽

政府の官僚主義: ロジャーズ博士は、**「官僚機構の本来の状態は、その官僚機構を破壊しうるもの全てを抑制することである」**と指摘し、政府が「アメリカ国民と世界の人々のために作り上げた官僚機構を乱す」ことを根本的に望んでいないと述べています。 •
歴史的な隠蔽との類似性: 彼は、イラン・コントラ事件、ウォーターゲート事件、ペンタゴン・ペーパーズなどの歴史的な隠蔽工作と比較し、政府のUAPに関する否定的な姿勢を、映画『裸の銃を持つ男』のフランク・ドレビン警部が花火工場が爆発しているのに「何も見てはいけない」と言う姿になぞらえています。
コロンビア号の悲劇との関連性: ロジャーズ博士は、2003年のコロンビア号の悲劇は、NASAの管理職が安全担当者の助言に従わなかったために起こったと強く批判しています。彼自身、1993年に著書『Impact』を書き、宇宙船に修理キットを搭載することの重要性を訴えていましたが、NASAは乗組員を失って初めてそのアドバイスに従いました。そして、UFOについて話し始めた後、彼の著書が出版社から絶版にされたことは、情報を抑圧しようとする動きがあるという彼の見解を裏付けています。
国家間の秘密保持: ポルトガルが新世界への航路を秘密にすることで富と力を得たように、歴史上、国家は技術的優位性を秘密にしてきたと指摘し、米国も同様の行動をとっていると見ています。
情報開示の重要性: ロジャーズ博士は、世界が現在「ひどい苦境にある」と感じており、国家間の優位性を得るためだけに秘密を保持することは「長期的に実行可能な戦略ではない」と考えています。彼は、自身のUAP目撃に関する真実を語ることは、他の人々が前に出るきっかけとなり、政府がUAPの存在を否定することをますます困難にすると信じています。最終的に歴史が、この情報を人類から隠し続けた国家をどのように評価するかを見守りたいと述べています。

ロジャーズ博士のUAP目撃は、彼の豊富な航空経験と技術的知識によって裏打ちされており、政府のUAPに関する隠蔽工作の存在を示唆する重要な証言となっています。彼の話は、個人が真実を語ることの力と、UAP情報が持つ社会への潜在的な影響を強調しています。

AI との対話

Me:

この、「ロジャーズ博士は、1992年にケープカナベラルでUFOを目撃した体験」は、コンピュータ・スクリーンに表示された UFO のビデオ映像を目撃したのであって、基地の窓から実物を目撃したわけではないということですね？つまりそれっぽく創作されたコンピュータ・グラフィックス映像である可能性は残ると言えますね？

はい、その理解で合っています。ロジャーズ博士が1992年にケープカナベラルでUAP（UFO）を目撃した体験は、ハンガーの窓から実物を見たのではなく、施錠されたコンピューター室でコンピューター画面に表示されたビデオ映像を目撃したものです。

ビデオ映像であったことから「それっぽく創作されたコンピュータ・グラフィックス映像である可能性」について、ロジャーズ博士自身の発言と背景から詳しく見ていきましょう。

コンピューター画面での目撃の詳細

ロジャーズ博士は、EG&G社のガイドと別れた後、少佐に「君ですら見たことのないものがある」と声をかけられ、施錠されたコンピューター室に案内されました。
そこで少佐がコンピューターを起動し、博士は少佐の席に座って画面を見ました。
画面には、分類マーク、場所、日時などの識別情報が一切ない「完全にきれいな画面」が表示されていました。
その画面の中央に、実際にUAP（ロジャーズ博士は「空飛ぶ円盤」と呼ぶ）がハンガーの中に置かれている様子が映っていました。

「創作されたコンピュータ・グラフィックス映像」の可能性に対するロジャーズ博士の見解

ロジャーズ博士は、自身が目撃した映像が単なるCGや偽情報である可能性を強く否定しています。その理由は多岐にわたります。

映像のリアリズムと技術的な困難さ

博士は、その映像が「絶対的なリアリズム」を持っており、単なる「リアルに作られたもの」とは一線を画すと述べています。
1992年当時、そのような「完全に自分を欺くほど非常に本物らしいビデオ」を作成することは「本物を見せるよりも難しかっただろう」と推測しています。
彼は、映画『未知との遭遇』のような映像は「きれいに見えたが、本物には見えなかった」と述べ、自身の目撃した映像との違いを強調しています。

ロジャーズ博士の専門知識と信頼性

彼はNASAのフライトサージョンとして31回のスペースシャトルミッションに従事し、F-16パイロットであり、トップナイフプログラムに参加し、多様なヘリコプターを操縦した経験を持つなど、40年以上にわたり最先端の技術に触れてきました。
彼は「航空機についても、宇宙船についても知っていた」と述べ、多くの宇宙船（衛星や深宇宙ミッションの形で）が準備されているのを目撃してきました。その上で、**「公式に見たものと非公式に見たものは、まったく関係がない」**と断言しています。
彼は機密プログラムへのアクセス権限を持っており、機密分類や情報の取り扱いについて熟知しています。この背景が、彼が映像の真偽を見極める能力を裏付けています。

機体の異常な特性と動作

映像に映っていた機体は「真珠のような白色」で、継ぎ目、リベット、窓、ドアなどが一切なく、「修正された卵」のようでした。
機体の上部には小さな突起があり、そこからマストが突き出ていて、おそらく外部からの電力供給や遠隔操作のための**3本のアンビリカル（へそ状のケーブル）**が伸びていました。博士はこれを「試験用機体（テストベッド）」の証拠と見ています。
機体には動きを監視するための「平らな黒い長方形」が描かれており、機体が回転すると「U.S. Air Force」の文字とアメリカの飛行記章が見えました。これは契約業者が米空軍に能力を示すために設置した識別マークであると推測されています。
機体は「羽のように」地面から約90cm浮上し、そのまま静止しました。その後、時計回りと反時計回りに360度回転しました。
さらに驚くべきは、45度の迎角に傾いても、わずか1センチメートルも移動しなかったことです。ロジャーズ博士は、固定翼機も回転翼機もこのような動きは不可能であると指摘し、この能力に最も衝撃を受けたと述べています。
「電磁放電」も確認されましたが、その発生源が機体から確認できず、常に同じ場所から発生するわけではないという「非常に特異な」特性を示していました。博士は、この技術がより高度な機体にも使用されている可能性があり、米国の敵対勢力に利益を与える情報を開示したくないため、詳細な説明を控えています。これらの異常な挙動は、当時の既知の航空技術では説明できません。

「彼らから得た」という少佐の発言

博士が機体のデザインについて尋ねた際、少佐は「彼らから得た（We got it from them）」と答えました。ロジャーズ博士は、この発言を「地球外の非人間的な技術」を示唆するものと解釈しています。
この目撃は、ボブ・ラザーが非人間的な宇宙船のリバースエンジニアリングに関する情報を公開したわずか3年後の出来事であり、博士は自身が目撃した機体がラザーの言う**「スポーツモデル」に酷似していた**と述べています。

これらの点から、ロジャーズ博士は、自身がコンピューター画面で見た映像は、単なるCGのような創作されたものではなく、リバースエンジニアリングされた、あるいは非人間的な技術に由来する本物のテストベッド機体の映像であると強く信じています。彼の経験と技術的知識が、その確信を裏付けていると言えます。

この証言の謎を推測する

この UFO が「本物の浮遊する実験機」である可能性はまずない。以下でその根拠を述べる。

上の映像が本物の浮遊する実験機である程度、実態を再現できているとすると奇妙な点がある。実験機ならば、この UFO の真下がコンクリートの床ということはまずありえない。姿勢制御が困難になって貴重な試作機が床に叩きつけられ、破損する可能性を考慮して必ずクッション材を床に設置する筈。

では CG (Computer Graphics) か？ Gregory Rogers は CG ではない、CG なら見破れると断言している。

では、その断言を受け入れたとする。その場合でも、（CG ではなく）よく出来た小型模型をカメラ付近に吊り下げて撮影した映像の可能性が残る。模型は浮いているのではなく、ピアノ線で吊り下げられているだけ。

姿勢を 45度に傾斜させた映像は極細のピアノ線を片端に取り付け、そのピアノ線を取り込むだけで実現できる。万一、ピアノ線が動画映像に映り込んでも、画像処理で完全にその痕跡を消去するのはさして困難な作業ではない。

私は

Gregory Rogers は Bob Lazar と同様にして、未来の内部告発者候補者として巧みに誘導された

のだと判断する。その証拠に（この UFO が実在ならば）これほど重大な最高機密情報をその業務とは無関係の人間に見せる理由は何も無い。一少佐が気まぐれで機密情報を漏洩するリスクを侵すこともありえない。Gregory Rogers がこの件を上司に報告したら、その少佐は降格程度ではすまされない。

では、なぜ彼が未来の内部告発候補者として選ばれたのか？その理由は以下のような彼の気質にある。

彼が内部告発候補者として選ばれた理由

ロジャーズ博士の誠実さと、彼の指揮官がそれをどのように評価（そして恐れて）いたかを示すエピソードは、情報源およびに詳細に語られています。

このエピソードは、ロジャーズ博士が西ドイツに勤務していた時に起こりました。彼の指揮官は、博士を「一緒に仕事をしてきた中で最高の士官の一人」だと評価していましたが、同時に「あなたは世界を救うことはできない」「少しは手を引け」と忠告していました。

国防長官がロジャーズ博士が担当する部隊の医療クリニックを訪問するというスケジュールが組まれた際、この誠実さが問題となりました。訪問の2日前、指揮官はロジャーズ博士を自身のオフィスに呼び出しました。指揮官はロジャーズ博士に対し、次のように告げました:

「グレッグ、君は素晴らしい士官だ。国防長官と話すこと以外は、あらゆる面で君を信頼している。」
「水曜日の朝（国防長官が訪問する日）にはヘリコプターを用意する。ドイツ国内の好きな場所にどこへでも飛んで行っていい。ただし、私が許可するまで基地に戻ってきてはならない。」
その理由として、「なぜなら、もし君がクリニックにいて、国防長官が君に質問したら、君は自分の考えていることをそのまま話すだろう。そして、それは私の目的には有利ではないからだ」と明言しました。

このエピソードは、ロジャーズ博士の**「高い誠実さ」を強く裏付けるものです。なぜなら、彼の指揮官は、ロジャーズ博士がどのような状況下でも自分の信念や事実を率直に述べる人物**であることを明確に理解していたからです。指揮官は、その率直さが自身の「目的には有利ではない」と判断し、国防長官との接触を物理的に阻止する異例の手段をとったのです。ロジャーズ博士自身も、議会で証言する機会があれば「自分が信じていることを話す」と述べており、特定の意図に沿った発言はしないことを明確にしています。

結果として、ロジャーズ博士は国防長官が基地を去るまで「一日中、城を見て回って」過ごし、その後基地に戻って通常の業務を再開しました。この出来事は、ロジャーズ博士が権威や政治的便宜に屈することなく、常に真実を語ろうとする人物であることを示す強力な証拠となっています。

文字起こし

(transcript 1of3)

（以下は podcast インタビュー動画の文字起こしです。ホストは Chris Lehto で、ゲストは Dr. Gregory Rogers です。全体で 2時間を超える長さなので 3分割しています。以下はその 1/3 部分相当です。）

I did not tell anybody, except my wife, what I saw back in 1992 about the flying saucer. But I knew what I was going to say when I retired. This major was off to my right and he said, Hey doc, I've got something to show you. I've got something even you have never seen. And what was in the middle of the hangar was an actual flying saucer. (0:00:36)

So now this is, this is pretty shocking. I did not get up that morning and say, well, I wonder if I go to the Cape, whether or not somebody will show me a flying saucer. As it rotated across, I could see the writing U.S. Air Force. And then it had a flight, an American flight insignia just above that. And so I said, where would we get a design like this? And he said, we got it from them. (0:01:11)

There's a bond between pilots and flight surgeons. These aren't just doctors. They're really the people or guardians, if you will, who keep us alive. So they make life or death decisions about who's fit to fly and it's difficult decisions. As an F-16 pilot, I trusted these physicians with my life and my career, right? You talk to them in confidence and you really trust them. (0:01:55)

They helped my family. You'll even see at the end of this interview, I even get a little emotional remembering back to the great flight surgeons I knew. Dr. Gregory Rogers represents the absolute pinnacle of aerospace medicine and flight surgeons. I mean, he was a NASA flight surgeon for 31 space shuttle missions. He also was an F-16 pilot himself. He flew in the Top Knife program as well as a bunch of other helicopters. (0:02:19)

He had access to our most classified programs. And for over four decades, Dr. Rogers saw the cutting edge of human technology, all the space shuttles, spaceships, classified technology, etc. You know, he had to have a clearance to fly the F-16. But in 1992, at Cape Canaveral, Dr. Rogers witnessed something that shattered everything he thought he knew about technological limits and our universe, essentially. For 33 years, he stayed silent. (0:02:54)

Only now, inspired by witnesses like David Grush and Commander Fravor, is he ready to speak. This isn't just another UFO story. This is testimony from a man whose credibility is unassailable and whose technical knowledge is encyclopedic. I mean, he was a doctor, right? He's sharper than your average tool in the shed. What he shares about that 15-minute encounter will challenge everything you think you know about what our government has or has not been hiding. I'm truly honored to share his story. (0:03:34)

Thanks for joining us. How are you doing? I'm doing great. Glad to be here. So your recent Navy lecture, it focused on human factors and identification of aircraft, military drones, and other aerial phenomena. So what prompted you to address UAPs in general and from a medical and human factors perspective? (0:04:06)

Well, for about six or seven years in a row, I was an expert lecturer to the Navy Professional Development Symposium that was held in April of each year. And so I discuss things like, because it's primarily medical and safety people, I did an introduction to Department of Defense munitions and explosives. I've done one that was entomology 101 for medical people, supporting those who deploy worldwide. (0:04:51)

I just discuss dinghy fever, leishmaniasis, visceral leishmaniasis. Whenever you travel to the world, there's lots of bad things that are there. And an awful lot of them are fleas, mosquitoes, and other insects. Lectured on the need to monitor workers when they're working with TNT and tritinol, because one of the first indicators that their bodies are adversely reacting is the development of normocytic normochromic anemia. (0:05:30)

So I gave a lecture on that. So I've given lectures on numerous topics. In fact, this last April, right before I retired, I gave a lecture on the 408 megahertz that is used for emergency beacons with the Cosbus SARSAT. So these are the kind of lectures that I give. Well, in November of 2023, I decided, you know, I did not tell anybody, except my wife, what I saw back in 1992 about the flying saucer. (0:06:11)

But I knew what I was going to say when I retired. So I contacted Commander Schall, who is the commander for the Navy Professional Development Symposium. And I said, look, since the Navy has now acknowledged the presence of FAA team pilots chasing UAPs, and there has been testimony before Congress, can I actually address it in my lecture? So we went back and forth several times on emails and finally said, as long as it's done in a professional manner, I will allow you to do this. (0:06:56)

So I made up my slide set, sent it to them, they reviewed it, and then said, yes, you can give this presentation. So then just to make absolutely certain, I gave it to the public affairs officer at the McAllist Army Ammunition Plant, which is where I was working at the time, and then also sent it to Fort Sill, which is the main Army base in Oklahoma, and had the public affairs officers in both locations give me email written statements that, yes, you can give this presentation. (0:07:32)

So I've got written confirmation from the commander, from his subordinates, and then from two public affairs officers that I am authorized to speak about UAPs. So then in about the last 15 to 20 minutes of the lecture, I brought out the fact that in the first part, I was talking about things like visual and auditory hallucinations, things that will cause people to give mistaken information, all of these kind of things. (0:08:11)

And so then I identified that UAPs are real events. They have been proven by the Department of Defense, they have been spoken of before Congress, and I gave my personal opinion that these are real. So then I discussed what makes UAPs anomalous and why they are so strange. And then I finished up with directions on how to interview people, whether it was for an aircraft mishap or a UAP event. How do you interview these people and what information are we looking for? (0:08:57)

And so I gave that lecture on the 24th of April, 2024. I received a lot of favorable comments and even got a letter back from Commander Schall saying that he appreciated what I did by giving this lecture. Who was the audience? Who did you give the lecture to? Well, it's a virtual audience, but any military personnel, safety personnel, industrial hygienists worldwide can get on there and watch it. (0:09:44)

So I believe I had 200 people watching it live all over the world, and then they recorded it. And other personnel who were busy at the time or who heard about it and wanted to see it could just access the military website and watch the video afterwards. (0:10:01)

Okay, and how was the reception? You said it was positive? Oh, it was extremely positive. If I had been in a position to reply to all of these people, I could have created a lot of difficulties for the Department of Defense, potentially. But since I was still part of the Department of Defense, I wasn't going to do that. So in April of this year, April 30th, I retired. (0:10:42)

On May 5th, there were recorded presentations and interviews that I had made that were released to the public, and it just blew up. At one point, I was told that we were the number one search on Google. And for three straight days, we were number one on Reddit. I've been interviewed by people from India to Australia. I've done interviews. (0:11:26)

They have a morning program, sort of like Good Morning America. And so I got on the computer and did like a 10-minute interview with them and had a lot of fun with that. But it's gone global. And a lot of people have been wanting to interview me. I did not realize there were so many people who had podcasts. (0:11:57)

So the vast majority I have turned down. And so yours is one of the few I've agreed to join. I told you on the email, I respect a Viper driver. That's excellent. And you are actually a Viper driver. You're a Viper driver as well, right? You did Top Knife and actually flew F-16s. Yes. Flight surgeons, most people really don't know that. (0:12:27)

They think, oh, that means that we take a scalpel out and cut people. But surgeon is a military term. And so it's used for physicians. And so as a flight surgeon, whatever unit I am assigned to, I need to know everything that they're doing so that when the pilots, the repair crews, the maintenance personnel come to me and say, look, I've got this problem. (0:12:56)

I first of all need to know what is their work location. So sometimes knowing where they're working will cause me to make a different decision than if they had a different job. Just as an example, way back in the 80s, I had a family practice doctor that wanted to find out what being a flight surgeon was like. (0:13:17)

So he came to my office and it was on a Monday. And I had a Huey pilot who had been playing football over the weekend, and he had damaged his shoulder. And he said, I can't lift it any more than this, but I can still hold the collective and the socket. So I can still fly. And I said, well, you're already grounded. (0:13:47)

So let's take that off. Now let's talk about the rest of it. So I dealt with him. And when he left, the family practice doctor said, he said he could handle the controls of the helicopter. Why did you say he was automatically grounded? And I said, well, because during the engine start sequence, sometimes the fuel will gather at the bottom of the turbine and can ignite. And so the fuel cutoff switch is right here. (0:14:19)

If he can't reach the fuel cutoff switch and his aircraft has an engine fire, then we're going to lose the aircraft and possibly have damage. And he said, well, how did you know that? And I said, because I've flown the helicopter and I've gone through the pre-flight a number of times. (0:14:39)

And you have to have your hand on that when you're igniting the turbine, because if that flashes, you got to hit it real quick. And there was no way he could even reach it, much less use it. Well, if I had not flown in that aircraft, I wouldn't have known that. So that's why flight surgeons do the things that their pilots, their crews also do. (0:15:10)

A lot of people don't realize it, but in Vietnam, we had four flight surgeons who were ACEs because they were flying with their units and had air-to-air kills. ACEs. That's five. You need five. Right. So one of the pilots, I believe, ended up having seven, but he was a flight surgeon. And so, you know, flight surgeons are educated people. We can operate flight systems as well. (0:15:49)

So you always have to do that. When I was supporting the space shuttle, I had to go through an orientation course to the space shuttle operations, everything about what hazards are on the orbiter, where are they located at? When you land, what are the hazard areas? People don't really think about how difficult flight is for going to space. (0:16:25)

But when the space shuttle lands, because of the weight, the orbiter puts a lot of stress on the wheels. The wheels are massive, but they become so hot that there were a few times when the tires would explode and pieces of this rubber go flying at a high speed. And so if you were in the area and that hit you, it would kill you. (0:16:50)

So there was a hazard zone that had to remain clear just for the tires. And then we were venting all kinds of toxic chemicals. So after the space shuttle orbiter would land, there was a lot of stuff that had to be done before we finally go get the astronauts out of the spacecraft. Yeah, I had a friend, his father actually flew the T-38s for NASA because the space shuttle actually, it glided, it flew, but it glided really at the same rate as the T-38 with its little tiny wings. So basically it did not glide very well. (0:17:29)

He would train the pilots. I actually have a picture of me in one of the NASA T-38s at the shuttle landing facility. And did you do the simulator for the shuttle itself? Yes, I did. That was a lot of fun, but I never got to stay in it long enough to enjoy it as much as I would like, because it's kind of expensive to do. (0:18:02)

So I got to practice a few things, but man, I would stay there for eight hours. But they said, come on, Doc, you got to get out. You know, we just wanted you to know what it was like. So I said, okay, well, you know, I would know what it was like if we also tried to do a trans-oceanic abort landing. (0:18:21)

Can we go through that scenario? No, Doc, you've been in there long enough, get out. So okay, I get out. (0:18:26)

And that's your flight jacket, right, from NASA? I asked you to put it on, actually. I think it looks good. Yes, this is what I used to wear to work every day. You mentioned your 1992 sighting, you know, can you talk through that, what you saw? Well, I certainly can. (0:18:55)

And the thing about that is that my original date of rank for the military was the 3rd of July, 1980. I have done all kinds of stuff. And yet, nobody knows about that. But when you say, I saw a flying saucer, everybody wants to know about that. So that was 15 minutes out of my life. (0:19:20)

And yet, here it is being what it is. What had happened was I'd gone to one of the buildings there on Cape Canaveral Air Force Station proper. And I had a guide that was with me from EG&G, which was the primary civilian contractor. And part of EG&G had all of the medical operations for it. (0:19:52)

And so we did not provide those medical clinics and so forth. But we were to oversee what they were doing. And then of course, if there was any military personnel who had any problems, I would take care of that as well. So there was a change in processing in... I believe it was an interdeck access way. (0:20:19)

When you put a space lab module in the payload bay of the space shuttle, it's this big container where they have all these experiments, a lot more room, and so the astronauts can do all kinds of stuff during the course of that mission. The only problem is that the airlock from the crew compartment doesn't fit to the opening of the space lab module. (0:20:50)

So there's an access way that has to be put. And then once it's locked in place, they launch it and the astronauts can go through the access tunnel to go back and forth between the crew compartment of the orbiter and the space lab module. Well, something had been done different. (0:21:08)

So I was wanting to see what it was like. And so I went in, did that, no big deal. And as I was coming out, it was a clean room. So I had a little bonnet on my head to cover my hair. I had a lab coat on and non-electrostatic booties that I needed to take off. (0:21:33)

So I sat down and I was doing this and I was talking and I didn't do it very quickly. And so the escort zipped it off and said, okay, doc, we're through for today. I'm out of here. And so off he went. So I was like a minute or two behind him, which ended up being an important minute or two. (0:21:54)

So he was already gone. And so as I exited this area, there was a set of double doors. And as I went out the double doors, this major was off to my right and he said, hey, doc, I've got something to show you. I've got something even you have never seen. Now, the reason I think he said this was because of compartmentalized security. (0:22:22)

So people who worked in one building on the Cape, many of them could only go to that building. They couldn't go to other buildings because we didn't want the secret of what's going on here told to other people. And we didn't want these people knowing what those people were doing. But I went through most of the areas on Cape Canaveral. So I got to see a lot more than the average person. (0:22:48)

So he said this to me and I said, okay, what is it? And he said, come on, step inside. So he took me into this little office. It had four computer sites for four different people. But he shut the door, locked it, and then he closed the many blind louvers on the door. There was a set of windows and he closed the many blinds on the windows. (0:23:21)

So I'm sitting there thinking, hold it, what's going on here? This does not look normal. And I was becoming a little bit skeptical, but he said, watch, I've got something to show you. So he sat down at his computer station and he turns it on, the screens on, he's doing all of this stuff. And I don't have any idea what he's doing. (0:23:50)

All of a sudden he says, okay, here it is. So he scooted over one seat to his left, and I sat down in his seat and I looked at this computer screen. It was completely clean screen. (0:23:58)

It had no identification of classification markings, no location, time, date, nothing. There was nothing explaining about the video I was seeing on the screen. Now then, it was a fairly typical looking hangar. Could have been any hangar anywhere, except that what was in the middle of the hangar was an actual flying saucer. (0:24:41)

So now this is pretty shocking. I did not get up that morning and say, well, I wonder if I go to the Cape, whether or not somebody will show me a flying saucer. Well, no, it was nowhere in my mind. So I'm looking at this thing and I said, what on earth are we doing with this? And the guy made some kind of comment that didn't impress me at all. (0:25:07)

I'm still looking at this computer screen. And so I said, where would we get a design like this? And he said, we got it from them. Now then, he did not explain what he meant, but obviously he was referring to non-human technologies from off this planet. So I'm looking at this thing and it's amazing. Now when I saw it, there were two guys in lab coats to the bottom left. (0:25:42)

And then midway up the screen on the right side, there were three guys that looked like technicians in what I would call Tyvek suits, you know, head to toe, and only their faces were showing. And then some sort of a warning sound went off and everybody cleared out. And then within a couple of minutes, the vehicle became active. (0:26:18)

At the time, all I could see was from what I now call the three o'clock position. And it was just slightly above looking down. The vehicle itself was sort of a pearly white. There were no seams, rivets, windows, doors, nothing that could be identified. It looked as though it was sort of a modified egg, if you just sort of shifted it around. (0:26:55)

There was a tiny little area on top that protruded and there was a mask sticking out. And on the mask, it looked like there were three umbilicals coming off. And at the beam of the craft, from the 1230 position to the 230 position, there was a horizontal black rectangle. From 330 to 530, there was another black triangle or rectangle. As I came to learn as it moved, there was also one at 630 to 830 and also 930 to 1130. At the three o'clock, six o'clock and nine o'clock position, there was a vertical rectangle and all of the rectangles were flat black. (0:27:46)

And so I believe that these were made to monitor the movement of this craft because if it was perfectly pearly white and it began to move, there was nothing there to show you that it was moving. So just like any experimental aircraft, they put markings on it so you can monitor the motion and that's what I believe these rectangles were. Now then, there were electromagnetic discharges that told me that the vehicle had become active and they were very peculiar, but I don't wish to describe them to anyone because if this was a test bed model, whatever the mechanisms were being used may still be active in more advanced craft and I don't want to give out information that would be beneficial to those opposing the United States. But as soon as it started to do this, it just sort of lifted off the floor and the floor looked like a concrete floor with like some kind of rubber mat that had been put on top of it. (0:29:20)

You know, you can go to your garage and put mats in there to keep it clean and dry and all of that and so it looked like there was something like that. But it lifted off just like a feather. It rose about three feet in the air and then just hung there. (0:29:32)

So as I'm watching, the next thing that it does is that it rotates 360 degrees clockwise. Now then, this is where I learned the rest of the information. What I describe as the 12 o'clock position, I do so because it was the one area totally separate from anything else. As it rotated across, I could see the writing U.S. Air Force and then it had a flight, an American flight insignia just above that. (0:30:09)

So that was the one place that was totally different, which is why I'm classifying it as the 12 o'clock position. So I'm watching this thing rotate and I can see the rectangles moving, but here's this writing that is moving as it rotates with this U.S. flight insignia. So now, that surprised me even more than just seeing the flying saucer right in front of me. (0:30:47)

It completed a 360-degree circle, paused, and then completed a 360-degree circle counterclockwise so that it was in the same position it had started in. It moved to the left and right. It moved forward and backwards. It's like you're testing your controls, making sure that you have everything working. And then it rotated to a 45-degree angle of attack if it were flying and the 12 o'clock position was going forward. Now then, you know, this is amazing. (0:31:26)

Fixed-wing aircraft can't do this. Rotary-wing aircraft... I had my solo certificate in helicopters and I had 500 hours in rotary-wing aircraft. You know, the lift is from the disc of the rotors and it's in 90 degrees perpendicular. So that to raise up, that's no big deal. That's what it's supposed to do. That's how you get it in the hover. But as soon as you change the angle of attack, you're moving the thrust vector. (0:32:12)

So there's going to be part of the thrust vector that is down, but now part of that thrust vector is going to be in a direction. Because it's in a direction, the aircraft will move in the opposite direction. So a helicopter can go to a 45-degree angle of attack, but it's going to be moving forward and lifting. (0:32:39)

This thing did not do that. And so this shocked me more than anything else because it did not move one centimeter as it moved to what would be a 45-degree angle of attack. So that really just blew me away. So I'm really focused on this. Just about that time, there's a knock on the door. The guy hits the buttons to turn the computer and screen off. (0:33:09)

And he said, don't tell anyone I showed you this. Well, I'm going to go around telling somebody that you showed me a flying saucer. Well, he goes to the door, opens it. We were both majors. And so this lieutenant colonel and two other guys came in. And so the lieutenant colonel said, what's going on in here that you had the doors locked? So the other major said, well, I had this skin thing and I wanted to see if it was cancer. And so I was having Doc take a look at it. (0:33:42)

Well, now everybody looks to me. So my mind is racing. If it had said any degree of classification, I'm turning this guy in for showing me a classified video inappropriately. But there was nothing that said that. I got to thinking, you know, all of these people were... these are the four people that work at these four computer stations. (0:34:17)

If this guy knew it and knew how to access that video, probably these other guys did too. So if I report this guy, I'm going to have to report them. That means I'm going to have to go to security. That means I'm going to have to go to their chain of command and report what was seen. (0:34:34)

And then I'm going to have to go back to my colonel and say, sir, I just want you to know that earlier today I saw a flying saucer. And so I reported a security incident. And all of these things are going on up at the Cape. And it's probably going to go up to the general and he's going to have to contact his people. (0:34:58)

Because there's a type of anal material that tends to move quickly up the chain of command in the military, if you understand what I mean. I'm thinking, oh my goodness, all of these consequences are going to happen if I say anything. So I did what many airline pilots, what many air force pilots, naval aviators have done in the past. I ignored it and said it wasn't cancerous. (0:35:34)

And I said goodbye. I went out the door, got in my car, drove 30 minutes south to Patrick Air Force Base. And along the way, I thought, I can't tell this to anybody. So I didn't even tell it to my wife for 15 years. But as long as I was associated with the Department of Defense, I did not want to risk what the repercussions were going to be as soon as I told this story. (0:36:01)

So I got involved with this organization, the International UFO Bureau, while I was still with the Department of Defense. But I waited until I was ready to retire. (0:36:20)

There's a guy named Tyler Roberts, with total disclosure, that is part of the International UFO Bureau. Mindy Topfess runs the Bureau. And I'm very pleased to be on the board of directors for it, because I think it's going to be head and shoulders above what the other common UFOs organizations do. (0:36:57)

And I wanted to be part of it. So Tyler Roberts ended up revealing my story on the fourth and fifth of May of this year. And it just went viral, as the term goes, and gained a lot of attention from many, many sources. I've been interviewed with people from India. I did a morning show, you know, virtually, as I'm doing with you, with a group down in Sydney, Australia, because they were interested. (0:37:40)

This thing just sort of blew up and went worldwide. And recently, I was at a convention called Contact in the Desert, in which case I met many of the top UFO people anywhere. And I spent some time talking to each of them telling this story and giving background on it. So you found out, asked me to talk, and I agreed to do that. (0:38:17)

One of the things I mentioned to you before we got on was that I had no idea there were so many people with podcasts, that there are thousands and thousands of people with podcasts. And so many of them were approaching me that I said, no, no, no, no, no. And then when I got yours, because you're a former F-16 driver, I said, yeah, I'll do his show. (0:38:47)

So here I am. I sincerely appreciate that, Greg. I mean, it's just a mind blowing story on so many levels. I think it goes back to your credibility. You've had decades, so many years, 31 shuttle launches, 14 landings, as well as flying F-16s, flying all the helicopters, you worked at the munitions. So I think we can maybe talk about it later, but you probably know about the Moab and the MOP that was just dropped on Iran. I mean, your depth of knowledge and experience is so long. (0:39:31)

It's just such an incredible, compelling story. Especially in 1992, you would have been briefed into classified programs, like you have to be briefed into classified programs just to fly the F-16 alone. So you must know about security classifications. You must know, you've been in so many debriefs with at least F-16s and not to mention all these other aircrafts. (0:39:57)

So you must know the difference between video classifications and seeing something that is probably real, right? So when you think back to the event... I had been not only oriented to the space shuttle, I got a tour of Atlantis personally in an orbiter processing facility, so I could see all of this stuff myself. But I also worked with the unmanned missiles, the Titan IV, the Atlas, the Delta launch vehicles, and then other space-related systems that were very highly classified. (0:40:50)

So I knew about spacecraft. I had seen many spacecraft. I'd seen spacecraft in the form of satellites and deep space missions. (0:40:57)

I was able to witness some of those being prepared before they were launched. So I knew spacecraft and I knew aircraft. And I know that none of what I officially saw related to what I unofficially saw. I mean, it's just unbelievable, especially in 1992. You know, to go and actually to fake a video like that at that time would just be a huge endeavor, you know? I mean, and why would you do it? (0:41:34)

Well, you know, I watched things like close encounters and yes, it looked nice, but it didn't look real. There is a lot of capability that has been developed since that time. And so it looks realistic. But there's a big difference between realistic and absolute realism. There it is. I'm seeing it. And, you know, people have suggested that and maybe this was done as a form of disinformation. (0:42:19)

(transcript 2of3)

（以下は podcast インタビュー動画の文字起こしです。ホストは Chris Lehto で、ゲストは Dr. Gregory Rogers です。全体で 2時間を超える長さなので 3分割しています。以下はその 2/3 部分相当です。）

I cannot imagine who could have created a video that would be so very authentic that it would absolutely completely fool me. And I think that it would have been harder to have done that than to have shown me what we were doing. One other thing, you know, this was 92. This was only three years after Bob Lazar had come out with his information about reverse engineering spacecraft from non-human intelligence. (0:43:01)

And I have to say that one of the closest descriptions I have heard or seen in diagrams was what Bob Lazar called his sports model. And so this was only three years after that. So I don't know if what I saw was actually an advanced form of the very vehicle he was describing. Later on, when I saw the TIC-TAC video, I thought, man, you know, just a little bit of design difference. (0:43:39)

And it could be that. Now, the difference, though, that makes me not believe that the TIC-TAC video was a reverse engineered vehicle. And I discussed this with my lecturer to the Department of Defense in 2024, was that it's not just the appearance, it's the capabilities. That craft performed maneuvers that there's no way we could reproduce. You know, to put it into perspective, one thing that I've done is said, imagine that you took an F-22 right now, the most advanced air-to-air combat craft that we have. (0:44:32)

And you said, I'm going to go back in time, give it to the United States aeronautical engineers in 1914, so that in World War One, we can outperform and outmaneuver every aircraft we come into combat with. Now, the problem is they're going to look at it and say, what on earth is that? Where's the propeller? Well, there aren't any propellers. These are jet engines. What are jet engines? (0:45:05)

Well, they burn fuel and you can fly much faster. This can actually fly faster than the speed of sound. And you would have to potentially describe what faster than the speed of sound meant to these people. Then they look at the surface and they say, this feels funny. And oh, well, that's radar absorbent material. And they say, what on earth is that? And they said, well, we want to reduce the radar cross section. (0:45:39)

And they said, what is this radar you keep talking about? We don't understand. Well, look at this computerized system and it will show you that the aircraft will maneuver its positioning according to the radars that it's encountering so that it presents the lowest radar return. And they say, look, we don't know radar. (0:46:13)

We don't know computers. What are you talking about? Even though this was only 100 years of human innovation, the guys in 1914 cannot reproduce that vehicle. (0:46:21)

They can't even begin to know it. If you said, well, we have a high aluminum magnesium molybdenum alloy that is the metal that you see over here. Well, how on earth would you make that? The material science has been totally incapable of understanding it, much less reproducing it. So if we have had non-human vehicles that we discovered in 1947 or subsequent, just because you have it doesn't mean you can reproduce it. (0:47:10)

Because they're going to use material science, advanced computer systems and technology for which we are totally unfamiliar. So we may have recovered a craft in 1947, but how many years is it going to take to learn how to produce those materials? It's going to take a long time. So we may still be in the infancy in 1992 of making a true reversible technology vehicle capable of performing some of the capabilities that were demonstrated. (0:47:56)

And I don't believe the Tic Tac was a reproduction vehicle. I believe it was a real one and it was controlled by non-human intelligence. You mentioned there were technicians there and then some alarms went off and they scurry away. That doesn't sound like a normal Air Force test. (0:48:16)

My understanding is you would have no one in there for sure. You wouldn't have this thing just activate with people in there and then them running. No, it was sort of like you're in kindergarten, you're out at recess, the bell rings, that means you have to go back in. So I think it was just, okay, we're getting ready to operate this craft, everybody clear out. (0:48:41)

So I think that's all that was. Some sort of a thing to say, okay, clear out, we're getting ready to use this thing. So everybody leaves, and then they initiate operations. Okay, so you think it was definitely a test that it was most likely an Air Force vehicle, probably reverse engineered, and then they were testing this thing? Well, I have thought about this a lot since 1992, if you can imagine. (0:49:14)

My belief is that this was probably owned by a contractor or contractor consortium. Now then when they are, you know, there was YF-22 and YF-23. And so even though they were owned by the consortiums that were promoting them, they weren't in the US aircraft inventory at that time. So they were still owned by the contractors. (0:49:52)

And then the YF-22 was selected. And then they went from the test bed version to an actual production model. And the production model is what entered the US inventory. So my belief is that this was probably owned by a contractor. They are wanting to show the Air Force, look, we've produced this vehicle, look what it can do. (0:50:12)

And so they were in the process of testing it to see if the Air Force would spend the money to make a bunch more of these things, and possibly a production model. A lot of times when aircraft are in testing, and you will make things like those markings for the rectangles, so that as it moves, you can tell exactly what it's doing. (0:50:43)

Now then, if there were no rectangles on there, if the US Air Force logo was gone, and the flight insignia was gone, the surface was so pearly white and perfect, that it could have rotated 360 degrees and I wouldn't have even seen the motion. So on test bed projects, you put identifying marks so that you can make sure that you're monitoring every degree of motion. (0:51:20)

And that's why those rectangles were there. And the contractor wanted it to be used by the US Air Force. So they put the US Air Force logo on it. It may have been partially funded by the Air Force for research. But I don't believe that it was a US inventory craft. So I believe it had to be a contractor. (0:51:45)

And the story is amazing. You mentioned the word like an elongated egg. And what I'd like to do after this is, have you made any sketches or done any? I have. It's not the best version. I did made a hand-drawn one, but it was pretty lousy. So I made another one. Let me see whether I can find it. And then if I can, I'll show it to you. (0:52:17)

I forgot that I'd printed out a copy. That's tough with the light, actually. Okay, perfect. Okay, that's great. Yeah, that's really good. So you're talking about the antenna mast on top, right? That seemed to stand out. Right. Now, that is one of the reasons I believe that it was a testbed project. Because they did not, my guess is, the electrical energy was not internal to the craft, which is why you needed an umbilical. (0:53:17)

And possibly even some of the flight controls were not internal. So they may have been remotely flying it from a control room. So the requirement for umbilicals, I believe, indicate that it must be a test article. Because I have never seen any pictures of a UFO, UAP, that had umbilicals stretching back to its home planet. Yeah, I didn't, I don't think they have any connection power. (0:53:57)

Yeah, internal guidance, internal equipment, so that they did not need anything from the outside to improve it. And the requirement for umbilicals tells me, I don't think it was ready for routine use. You mentioned electrostatics too, and I understand you're hesitant to talk about that. But just from what you saw, do you think David Fravor and Alex Dietrich and everyone who saw the Tic Tac, would they have seen the same sort of electrostatic effects, in your opinion, just speculation? No, no, from the video I saw, there was a type of effect that might have been related, but the electromagnetic discharges were uh, very unique. (0:55:08)

And one of the things that made them most unique, was that they did not always come from the same location. So you know, if for the space shuttle, if you're going to maneuver in, while you're in orbit, you're going to use the reaction control system, or RCS. And so there are fixed jets that you can use for maneuvering. (0:55:34)

But there's a very distinct area for each RCS. And it can't just come from nowhere. There was nothing that I saw on this vehicle, that appeared to be the source of the electromagnetic discharges. And the electromagnetic discharges did not seem to be coming from the same location. So that's very puzzling to me. (0:56:05)

So what made you speak out about this? You know, you obviously, you waited, you know, for over 30 years, really, did this information kind of eat you up on the inside? Was it difficult to keep this? Well, it, it really started when the Navy released their videos. When they released the videos from the FAA teams. You know, what I was seeing there convinced me that these are actual UAPs that they're witnessing. (0:56:43)

You know, you being a pilot, you know exactly what I mean when I say this. If I had not been looking at the screen, but I heard the tone of the voices of the pilots as they're chasing this thing, the tone of their voices would have convinced me they are encountering something unique. (0:57:02)

You know, when, when, when they're sort of laughing and making jokes about it. That's what real pilots would, would do. The way they reacted, the tones of their voices, that made me believe, yeah, these are real guys, and they're really watching it. And I don't, I do not believe that they are seeing something that they are familiar with. If they were, they would be saying different things. (0:57:41)

They would have different tones of voices, but what they were saying and how they were saying it absolutely convinced me. And then the Navy released more evidence. Congressional hearings started to come out. And one of the things that really sort of bothered me the most was that last November, when David Grush was testifying before Congress, look, there are people who know these things that I cannot tell you because they haven't authorized me to do it, but they have seen reverse engineered crap. (0:58:34)

But I cannot bring you any evidence. Well, I don't have any photographic evidence. First of all, I couldn't have taken a photo in that building anyway. Back then, we didn't have iPhones, but I did have a pager. I had to leave my pager behind before I entered the building because I couldn't have any possible radio equipment that could transmit information from the inside to the outside to protect the security of what all I was witnessing. (0:59:09)

If I'd had an iPhone, I couldn't have taken it in there. If I had a camera, I couldn't have taken it in there. Photographs were not authorized on Cape Canaveral without clearance. So there was no way I could show anybody there. But David Grush said, all these people know these things, but they can't come forward. (0:59:38)

And I thought, well, when I retire, I'll come forward. I will have David Grush's six o'clock position, so to speak. A lot of people know about this, but they're not in a position to come forward. When I retire, I will come forward and I will tell this story. (1:00:06)

I really appreciate it, Greg. I'm sure so many people in the audience do. I know David Grush does, for sure. And even that flag behind you, you said it actually flew on a space shuttle. Is that correct? Yes. The flag was presented to me when I left the program. It had flown on Atlantis for 3.9 million nautical miles, they told me as they presented it to me. (1:00:36)

So that's a flag that has flown in space. And I don't know if you can read it, but it says Space Shuttle Support Team, which was what I was on. I'm not sure just everybody has a flag flown in space that was presented to them by NASA, but I have one. I don't think everybody has a flag that's flown in space. (1:01:21)

When I left Patrick Air Force Base, the 45th Space Wing, we were still part of Air Force Base Command. And so my meritorious service medal was sent up the chain because of all of the things I had done. And the commander at the time was Chuck Horner, four-star general, but he had been a three-star general during Desert Storm, and he was the air component commander. (1:01:45)

So a lot of people know him from Desert Storm, where he commanded all air forces. And so they sent it to him and his signature is on my meritorious service medal. (1:02:01)

Cool. So going back to that scene, what was his intentions? Why do you think that major showed it to you? Did you see him later? Did you have a good relationship with him? Why do you think he grabbed you? No. Yeah. Being a pilot, you understand that you have to go in for a flight physical every year. Now then, according to how many flight surgeons you have and how many pilots you have, the pilots go in there and say there's three flight surgeons in the flight medicine clinic. (1:02:41)

You're going to know all three of those people. But I at the time was taking care of about 1,800 personnel. So I may have seen this guy on a flight physical a year and a half ago, but I don't remember him. But because there were only two flight surgeons that were full-time in the flight medicine clinic, everybody remembered me. (1:03:15)

So I think he was trying to show that he had access to interesting information and wanted to impress me. But the minute the Lieutenant Colonel showed up, his desire to impress me went away quickly. And how long was the video? Because there couldn't have been that much time that passed before these other guys showed up. (1:03:48)

Yeah. I believe I spent about 15 minutes watching this video. So out of my entire life and all the things I've done, this 15 minutes is what people are interested in. If I'd gotten my booties off faster, gotten off my lab coat and left with the guide who was taking me around, I doubt that the guy would have disturbed me. (1:04:20)

I would have never had that 15-minute episode, and we would not be having this conversation. It's also one of those things you never forget, right? When you went home. Yeah. What did you think of? It took me about 25 to 30 minutes to drive to where my clinic was at Patrick Air Force Base. And the whole time I'm thinking, can I tell anybody about this? If I do, what on earth is going to happen? And all of the scenarios were bad. So by the time I got back, I realized I'm not telling nobody nothing. (1:04:55)

And when I walked into my clinic, I tried to act like it was absolutely nothing different from any other day. I never went back to that building again. If I'd been given a choice, I would not have participated in that. But the guy coerced me into seeing something I did not want to see. But once you see it, you can't unsee it. (1:05:33)

You can't say, well, I know it was a flying saucer, but I'm just going to ignore that. No. You know, what I liken it to is the people that went to Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963. I'm old enough to remember the event. Mr. Zabruder did not intend to create a video that would be one of the most controversial in all of American history. (1:06:03)

He was just going to take a picture of the president driving by, take it home, show it to his family, and that was going to be the end of it. But because of where he was standing at the time he was filming, he ended up filming the assassination of a president. Now, he had no intention of doing that, but he did. (1:06:25)

It was something that was forced upon him. He thought he was just going to see a leisurely event as the president of the United States drove by, but he happened to be standing exactly where the president was going to be shot. He had no choice about it. The only choice he had was to be there. The choice of what he was going to see was out of his control. You say if you had to choose, you'd rather not have seen it. (1:07:00)

Is it just the weight of that information, that knowledge, and then just feeling the pressure of having to do what you think is correct? Yes. One thing that I have known was the very minute that I stand up and say, hey, I saw a UFO, there's going to be a huge number of people who are going to say he's lying or he's a nut or both. (1:07:40)

People who I have worked with down through all these years, they're going to say, Doc Rogers, what on earth are you doing? You're saying you saw a flying saucer? Why would you do that? Just as an example, I wrote a space shuttle novel called Impact, and it was published in 95 and written in 93. And in it, I protested the fact that the NASA managers were not sending up repair kits with the crews. (1:08:12)

And if there was damage to the thermal protection system for the orbiter while they're in space, they can't fix it. So I made that point by, in my story, having to launch an unmanned vehicle with a repair kit. And they had to rendezvous with repair kit to make the repairs to the thermal protection system so that they could re-enter Earth's atmosphere and survive. (1:08:48)

I had book signings with Buzz Aldrin and Jim Lovell, Jr. down at Johnson Space Center. Lots of people knew about my story. There was a guy who was in the LOEC, which is loss of orbiter entry capability. And while I was talking to him, he said, your story is our worst nightmare. If we lose a crew, it's probably going to be related to damage of the thermal protection system. (1:09:18)

Eight years later, Columbia launched. There was damage to the leading edge of the left wing. There was no repair kit, so they didn't bother even checking it out. And when they tried to enter the Earth's atmosphere, the orbiter was lost and the crew died. That could have been prevented, but now then, what has just recently made this even more to my attention was that I went to a UFO convention called Contact in the Desert. And so while I was there, I spoke to all kinds of UFO enthusiasts, including a lot of the top people. (1:10:08)

Within two weeks, I was notified by my publisher that the novel Impact was no longer going to be printed and no longer going to be distributed. So my book just evaporated in my face. (1:10:30)

That is just completely ridiculous. Within two weeks, like, how did they find out from publication when you spoke out? Or did they get word from Contact in the Desert? I mean, well... I don't know. But, you know, there were all kinds of people there. You know, I spoke to Richard Dolan and sometime next month, I'm going to be on his show. But I was telling him this. (1:11:14)

I was telling the whole bunch of people there about not only the Flying Saucer, but my aggravation in the fact that we lost a crew that we could have saved simply because NASA refused to send the repair kit up. On all of the subsequent missions after 2003, there were repair kits aboard. But they waited until they lost a crew before they followed what I told them they needed to do. (1:11:44)

And I wasn't the only one doing it. There were lots of people doing this. But in the safety community, we were doing all kinds of things. But the NASA management operates separate from the safety people. That's the same thing in the Air Force. Like, we were talking just before we started recording about the F-16. And it was called a Lawn Dart. Really, because what you had is so many crashes. (1:12:13)

A lot of it was engines, right? When it first came out, it was, you know, single engine fighter, they said, don't go single engine. But a lot of it also was just from the extremely high Gs. High G profile. And so the G suits actually, halfway through my career, we would lose a pilot, at least one pilot every year in multiple aircraft. (1:12:35)

And then when the F-22 came out, you talked about the F-22. They had this amazing upgrade. I'm sure you remember it, it was the G suits. So for the G suit that squeezes your legs to keep the blood, you know, from going down, because that's really how you pass out, G-induced loss of consciousness is a G-lock. I'm sure you know, they just made the whole G suit cover the butt, right? That was their huge advancement. (1:13:03)

And after that, we didn't lose any more pilots. Well, I've got a story that goes along with that. I had gone down to G training at Alamogordo at the Air Force Base there. And there were, I was put in a group of four, before we went to the centrifuge. The first one, and so while he was in the centrifuge going around at seven G's, he started developing heart palpitations. So they had to shut it down, take him to the hospital. (1:13:38)

So, okay. So the next two guys were F-16 guys, and they were trying out a new type of G suit, both of them. And so the first guy went and he ended up doing a G-lock. And so they stopped, pulled him out, laid him on the ground in front of us and told the other guy, okay, it's your turn. (1:14:03)

So he went in there and he was trying the same suit. There was a name for it, but I don't recall what it was at this point, but he G-locked as well. So they brought him out and laid him on the floor. So the colonels in the emergency room, these two guys are laying there having G-lock and, you know, they're wiped out. (1:14:38)

And so they say, okay, doc, it's your turn. So I climbed over him and went through the F-16 profile and I did really well. So when I came out, I was thinking, hey, yeah, you know, I'm big stuff. Well, I was at the visiting officer's quarters. And so I went and sat down there and I was, I think the Olympics were on. (1:15:00)

And so I was watching the Olympics. And so when it was time to, that I needed to get up and go to the bathroom, I put my arms down to push myself up. And I thought, man, there's needles in this thing. And so I fell, I couldn't feel anything. So I put my arm down again and I had this, I thought, what on earth? Well, I pulled my, the sleeve of my light suit up. (1:15:31)

I had G measles. And, you know, I did not realize, you know, I'd heard about it, but I just thought, oh, well, they're an annoyance. No, it was painful. And so I thought, yeah, I thought, well, maybe it wasn't so great after all, but I did uh, finish the cycle. (1:15:55)

So, so I was, uh, glad to do that. Yeah. G we call them G's. And what, what will happen is just from the height, extremely high G's you'll get your little capillaries will, will pop here. And so you'll get what looks like red freckles and it looks like measles. (1:16:10)

So we call them G's and I got them all the time, but I don't remember it, them hurting, I guess. And I guess it makes sense, but well, um, that was the first time I ever had them and, uh, they were uncomfortable. Um, you know, going back to the G lock, you know, um, as a flight surgeon, one of the things I was taught was that, uh, there was a significant factor because some of the first F16 guys were F4 drivers that were being moved over to the F16. In the F4, the onset of G's were slow enough that they could wait for a gray out and then know, okay, I've got to back off. (1:16:55)

But the F16 had such a rapid onset of G forces that the F4 pilots were waiting for a gray out. And they went from conscious to unconscious with no gray out. And, uh, that was one of the reasons the F4 pilots were crashing the F16s. And, uh, they finally, I actually saw the video when I was at, um, uh, Brooks Air Force Base in flight surgeon training. (1:17:15)

And, uh, they had this, uh, F16 pilot who fortunately had a high enough altitude, but as he pulled around, you could see his head G lock and he's doing this and their aircraft is going down. (1:17:29)

And then, um, you know, it's like, uh, it was like 38,000 feet. And when it gets down to about 6,000 feet, he lifts his head and looks around and then the jet pulls up. And afterwards they interviewed him and said, what happened? And he said, well, um, I don't know what happened. And they said, well, you know, you G locked. (1:17:53)

And he said, no, no, I didn't know that. And so he had been waiting for that gray out that you can get with the F4 that you don't get with the, uh, fourth generation aircraft. And so they started teaching people before you pull the Gs, you do the anti G strain maneuver. (1:18:17)

Yeah, definitely. And flying the F-16, especially when it's like this and there's no tanks on it, you're in an air to air mode. You can have intense Gs. And I remember a lot of fights where I couldn't see, I mean, you say it now, but I couldn't, you know, I'm behind the guy pulling as many Gs as I can. (1:18:35)

And I could not see, you just, you lose all your optical vision. It's called gray. So it starts, it starts gray, but then ultimately you just can't see anything. And then I would let up on the G and squeeze my legs more, squeeze your butt and then be able to see again, continue fighting. Yeah. Um, doctors like to titrate medicine, um, tactical fighters titrate G forces. Okay. I can go this far. Then I've got to let off. (1:19:02)

Yeah. We'd go all the way to the, to the limit. Um, yeah. I mean, when you're fighting you're, you're there to win. Yeah. It happened to me in the centrifuge. I could just see my vision going down. And so I really increased my anti G straining maneuver. My, uh, G suit had inflated and, and I could sort of back it off then, but then because of the, um, protocol I was on, uh, they, uh, backed off on the G force and my vision was totally back. (1:19:40)

Yeah. And that's really, cause you're, your optical is at the top of your brain from what I understand. And so as you're losing pressure in your brain, that's why it's graying out. And then if it goes too far, you're, you're out and G locked. I never G locked that. Have you locked though? Did you ever do any of the tests? No, I never did. (1:20:02)

Yeah. I'll tell you what though, when I was on my dollar ride with the F 16, uh, the dollar ride is when you're just being introduced to the aircraft. And, and so I was with this guy at Luke Air Force Base and he said, uh, did you bring your barf bags? And I said, well, I have one. (1:20:21)

He said, uh, uh, I want you to bring two. So I said, okay. So I went and got a second one, took him out and he yanked and banked and, you know, I had bruises on me. Uh, it was so brutal what he did. And so when we got out of the aircraft for debrief, he said, um, how'd you do with your barf bags? And I said, uh, here they are, they're still empty. (1:20:48)

And he said, wow, that that's impressive. I thought for sure I would have had you barf in some of those maneuvers. And I said, why did you do that? (1:20:54)

And he said, well, it's a tradition. You know, you gotta make people barf on their dollar ride. And I said, well, you know, um, I had over 400 hours in helicopters at low level. So, uh, I never got airsick then. I doubted that I was going to be airsick now. And he said, uh, you, you flew, uh, low level, I said, and Napa the Earth. So low level and Napa the Earth in helicopters. (1:21:22)

He said, man, I wish you'd told me that. I, I did some low level, uh, stuff just as, uh, a visitor and I got airsick. And I said, well, I, I've never, never been airsick. And so he said, man, I wouldn't have had to go through all that. And I said, well, you didn't have to go through that anyway. And he said, no, it's a tradition. (1:21:46)

I don't, I mean, I was at, I was going to, uh, vomit during that flight. I don't know if this changed because, um, actually, cause you're in the same cockpit as the person, right? Uh, you know, I'd be flying in the front, you'd be, you'd be flying in the back seat and it's the same air. So actually, uh, at least me and all the pilots I knew did not want the guy puking in the same area as me, you know, like I would try to, to get them not to puke if you could, but it, it, you're, you're one of the well, also you're not flying. (1:22:28)

If you're not flying as well, I would get nauseous in the backseat. Um, if I'm not flying, well, whatever made him do it. Um, um, we both ended up bruised because I mean, he was yanking and banging and you know, how, how fast you can, you can turn in an F-16. Um, you know, it's get like getting slammed. (1:22:57)

Yeah, without a doubt. I think people would be surprised how violent it is just flying the mission. Um, it's more like one-on-one wrestling. I would say dogfighting seems like that. Um, it's just very physical. Uh, I, I would liken it to one of those, um, crummy old wooden, uh, roller coasters where it, it, it's not smooth and, and you, you hit these bumps and all of a sudden you get jarred real quickly because it's not smooth on the later ones. (1:23:28)

You know, they had the fancy rails and you, you slide real fast, but in the old-timey wooden ones, boy, they would bounce you all over the place. But instead of like two and a half Gs on a roller coaster, you, you're doing seven or eight Gs. Yeah. You know, um, I, I did, uh, deal with the, uh, Blue Angels when they did an air show at, um, uh, Patrick Air Force Base and one of the guys got hurt. (1:24:08)

So he came in and I had to take care of him. Uh, and, uh, I gave him a hard time because the, um, uh, F-18s that they were flying at that time were only eight G aircraft, whereas the Thunderbirds were flying the nine G, um, uh, F-16s. I said, you know, you're a whole G worse. (1:24:24)

That was just one of those inter-service things. Actually though, that's a funny story because the guy had gone boogie boarding, um, right next to the, uh, visitor officer's quarters where they were staying and he didn't realize that there were a lot of rocky areas. And so he, uh, slashed his arm and, and so, um, he, uh, uh, did not initially show up to my flight surgeon clinic. (1:24:56)

I was in my office and my, um, senior NCO, um, we called him Frenchies. And, um, and, uh, he, he came and said, hey doc, I need you to come back to optometry for a second. And I said, uh, before he said, well, I'll show you when I get there. So when I got there, here's this Naval aviator with this slash down his arm. (1:25:30)

And he said, um, when we're, when we sign up with the, um, Blue Angels, we promise that we're not going to do things that can get us hurt. And the air show is tomorrow and I'm hurt. If I officially show up on sick call, they're going to ground me. And, um, I've only, uh, been with the Blue Angels for three months. (1:25:48)

Can you do something for me? So I said, oh, okay. So, um, I, um, gathered all the stuff secretly, took him back to another room and sewed up the wound so that, uh, he could go fly in the next, next day without having to report him on sick call. (1:26:12)

Yeah. That's the flight surgeon you want in your squadron, by the way, the guy you can tell UFO stories to, he doesn't turn you in. And the guy that sews you up without putting on sick call. There was a flight surgeon at Johnson space center that actually kept notches on his stethoscope for people he disqualified. (1:26:34)

(transcript 3of3)

（以下は podcast インタビュー動画の文字起こしです。ホストは Chris Lehto で、ゲストは Dr. Gregory Rogers です。全体で 2時間を超える長さなので 3分割しています。以下はその 3/3 部分相当です。）

Now that is the exact opposite of what a functional flight surgeon should be doing. After the government pays all this money to train these guys, the whole purpose is to find ways to keep them flying safely. Um, um, I, I just, when, when I heard that, that story that he kept notches for those he disqualified, I thought that jerk, you know, unfortunately, if Mr. Jerk goes to medical school, he comes out Dr. Jerk. Dr. Jerk. I think it actually changed because I felt that, um, in my career, it was the other direction where, um, before I went in, so I started flying in 2004. Um, by that time, it had, it had swapped to where now the surgeons, they were more, um, they were integrated in the squadron and they could, they knew when to call, uh, a deniff, you know, like when the guy, you know, when he can't reach the safety switch, you're going to deniff that guy. (1:27:34)

But if a guy just has a cut on his arm that you can stitch up and it's not going to be an issue for the, for the flight, you also know that. So there, I felt that it changed, the culture changed to where now the surgeons are integrated in the squadron and they're really interested in getting the guys able to fly safely. (1:27:55)

Yeah. Well, uh, let me give you an example. We had a guy, um, when I was at Vance Air Force Base that was in the altitude chamber. And so they called and said, uh, we have a guy who, um, uh, has had a dysbarism episode, uh, uh, and, uh, he's, uh, unconscious and, and you got to come and do something. (1:28:19)

So in the, um, altitude chamber, there was the altitude chamber where everybody was working. Then there is a, a little connection area. And so you could, uh, decompressurize to the level of, um, what all of the people going through training would be. You could get them in there, close the door, pressurize to, um, regular sea level and then get them out. (1:28:50)

Well, as soon as I got, got in there, uh, I looked at him and said, uh, yeah, this doesn't, doesn't look right. And so I checked him all over. And, um, as he started coming to, you know, I brought him back to our clinic and as he was telling me his story, I said, you know, I don't think your problem was the pressure. (1:29:16)

Um, uh, we checked the blood sugar and blood sugar was like 68. Anything below 70 is bad. But the thing is, uh, at 68, I suspected that it had previously been lower. So I said, I think you, um, actually had a problem with hypoglycemia. So I, uh, had him do a glucose tolerance test, which he failed. (1:29:38)

And so I said, okay, we're going to have to send you downtown. I'm going to get you, um, examined by an internal medicine specialist, but, um, until, till that time you're not flying. And, uh, if they confirm that hypoglycemia is why you lost consciousness, uh, I'm going to have to disqualify you from flight because we can't have you losing consciousness while you're the pilot of the craft. (1:30:12)

Well, um, uh, a couple of days later, he was fixing to go to the, um, gym and he was fixing up all of these specialty things that he was using to build up muscle. And his wife was a nursing student. And she said, uh, did you tell doc Rogers that you're taking all of this garbage? And he said, well, no, why? And she said, well, some of that can do things to the human body. (1:30:44)

So, um, he came in and he had like six bottles of stuff. So I was looking through each bottle. And as soon as I looked at one of them, I said, oh my goodness, you gotta be kidding me. This one, um, has, um, glucose like activity, which will induce hypoglycemia. (1:31:04)

You stop all of this stuff. Now then I'm going to give you two weeks and then I want to do the glucose tolerance test again. He did the glucose tolerance test when he was absent, all of that garbage had been feeding himself and he did fine. I returned him to flight duty, but told him you can't do this. (1:31:24)

And so, um, I sent an aeromedical summary to AETC command, um, and told them, look, tell, tell the pilots and flight surgeons that he bought this at GNC, so he thought it was good, but, uh, he nearly lost his career over it. And so, they sent out to tactical air command as well as AETC and told people not to do this. (1:31:51)

And, um, the feedback that I got was that there was a bunch of people who had been using that medication that was, uh, designated as a food supplement, but, um, it nearly cost this guy his career. If it had happened while he was flying, he would have died. Wow. Um, and I wanted to cover one other kind of, uh, flight, flight safety issue here. Um, my wife really wanted me to bring it up as well. (1:32:20)

And I don't get a chance to talk to, uh, flight surgeons, definitely as experienced as you. Um, but my wife wanted me to share this is an article from February of 2025. So this year, years of fighter jet flying may be causing brain injuries in Navy pilots. And this, uh, it's by Ella Webster, this article, it's in concussion update. (1:32:46)

And it says, uh, in a New York times article, journalist, Dave Phillips highlights a confidential Navy project codenamed project Odin's eye project Odin's eye launched last year to study brain injuries in Navy SEALs exposed to repetitive blasts. And it aims to determine whether flying fighter jets poses significant risks to brain health. (1:33:09)

And it sounds like they haven't really studied this up until now. And this says the project, this project will collect detailed data on brain function from F-18 super Hornet top gun pilots used to assess the cumulative effects of extreme flying under intense G forces. The military reportedly expedited the project to address the growing concerns and the long term wellbeing of the pilots in the past 18 months, three experienced super Hornet pilots died by suicide after battling severe mental health challenges. So what is your take on that? (1:33:42)

I don't need a survey or study to tell me what's going on here. The brain has a consistently consistency of like a thick jello. When football players hit the ground real hard, they get a concussion. We know that. When, when you have an explosion next to you, the pressure wave will strike your head. The jello inside will smash against the opposite side, but then smash back against the side from which the blow came. (1:34:29)

So we call that coup and contrecoup injuries. We have known about these kinds of injuries since I was in medical school back in the early eighties. Soccer players, when they hit their heads together, you get a sudden deceleration of the skulls, but the skulls stop moving, but the jello inside smashes back and forth. (1:35:01)

This is the same thing that NFL has had to do with the concussions after playing football. We see the same thing in soccer. When all of a sudden you're at seven G's and your brain is here and your skull is on top of it, and all of a sudden you have to do a reversal and you flip that aircraft, that jello brain is going to get smashed. (1:35:32)

And then as it smashes, as soon as it comes out, it's going to hit the other side. So you're going to get a coup and contrecoup impact of the brain. No matter how brave you are, you cannot change the fact that your brain is sloshing around up there. So when you do that time after time, after time, after time, after time, after time, it's going to have effects. (1:36:06)

They talk about Navy SEALs, but we have seen this all along. If a detonation occurs close enough, the brain will not move as quickly as the skull. So it gets smashed and then it rebounds and smashes on the other side. And the F equals MA, force equals mass times acceleration. So according to how much force was applied, that's how much acceleration will occur to this gelatinous brain that we own. (1:36:42)

And so how many times do you want to smash it back and forth before you think, hey, you know, this could be doing damage. I've talked to enough older pilots who say, you know, I just can't think as well as I used to when I was younger. And they talk about getting headaches and all these kinds of things. (1:37:08)

Well, a lot of times, if you look at post-concussion syndrome, you're going to see that that's what these guys have. I think that would explain some things. Is there anything you can do about it, I guess? Can you minimize the effects or anything? Not unless you change the human brain, because the skull is solid. If you hit one side of the skull, the other side of the skull stops, but the brain in between bounces back and forth. (1:37:49)

Because that's what brains do. There's no mechanism to protect the sloshy brain from bouncing when either an acceleration is given to the skull or if an acceleration is immediately stopped in the skull. So going from one to four G's, that's an effect, but going from four G's to one G is also a similar effect. You can't change the human brain. In fact, I'll tell you a story real quick. (1:38:35)

The C-130 crashed on our runway. We got everybody out. It's on fire. We separated people into triage groups. And so there were several that were severely injured, and then some of them that were less injured, and then some in the minimal group. Well, when I got through stabilizing the emergency group, I went back to the other group, and I just was going to do a quick secondary survey. (1:39:09)

So I would start at the top of the head, push and probe on it, everything, because there would be times when with the adrenaline rushing, people might not even know, oh, you've got a broken ankle here. Well, I had done it to several people, but then the next guy, I came and I put my hand on his head, and something was squishy. Well, there's not supposed to be something squishy right up here. (1:39:37)

So I pulled his hair apart and looked, and I had actually pushed into his brain tissue. He had a depressed, displaced skull fracture. So there was a little hole there, and I had stuck my finger right into his brain tissue. So he had no pain. I said, do you have any kind of headache? And does your head hurt? And he said, no, why? Is something wrong? I said, no, everything's fine. (1:40:05)

But I want you to stay very still on your litter. I checked him for any other injuries. There weren't any. I said, you stay very still. Don't move your head around. Don't move your neck around. Medic, take this guy and move him over there. He's number two. So we went, you know, we had three people for emergency evacuation, and the number one guy had a collapsed lung and all this stuff. (1:40:38)

And so we'd stabilized him real quick. But then, you know, with this guy's brain exposed, I figured, you know, he's number two on the evacuation list. So I moved him up, but I accidentally stuck my finger into his brain and it was squishy. These stories are just amazing. I know you get asked about the UFO story, and that's your 15 minutes of fame. (1:41:13)

But what do you want to be most remembered besides the UFO story? Was it the thermal issue which you raised? Or is there some issue you know about now that we should be considering? I am most disturbed by the fact that in 2003, we lost a space shuttle crew. (1:41:31)

For the very same reason I wrote the book in 93, and it was published in 95. If we'd had any kind of a repair kit available for the 18-inch hole and the leading edge of the reinforced carbon-carbon on that left wing, we could have saved the Columbia and crew. And we did not because the NASA managers were acting like managers and chose not to act on what the safety people told them. (1:42:10)

I just find that extremely disturbing. Even if they can't read my book anymore because it just got derailed. And on your book, do you own the rights? Can you self-publish it on your own? Yes, I'm already starting to work on that. But I mentioned Buzz Aldrin. He read my book back in 95. And he called Hugh Harris, who was the head of public affairs at Kennedy Space Center and said, hey, do you know who this Gregory Rogers is? He said, oh, yeah, he was a flight surgeon here with the space wing. But I think he's moved to Oklahoma. So he went through various details. (1:43:06)

And got my phone number. And next thing I know, Buzz Aldrin called me at home in Oklahoma and said, I really enjoyed your book. Now, there are lots of people who have given criticisms to my book and reviews to my book. But if it's a space shuttle novel, and Buzz Aldrin said that he really liked it, I don't care what any reviewer says elsewhere. (1:43:40)

Buzz Aldrin liked it. I'm fine with my story. But anyway, he tracked me down because he thought this was important. But the NASA managers did not feel it was important enough to make the changes that could have saved that group. Do you think the same thing? It is different. But do you think the same thing could be happening with UAPs with UFOs? Oh, absolutely. (1:44:12)

There are lots of people who have clear evidence. You know, when I looked at the gimbal video, and the Tic Tac video, and all of the other F-18 videos that have been released, I want someone to tell me, if that is not an alien vehicle, then what on earth is it? Because we've got no explanation for it. If you have to say, I know it was not made by humans, and yet I still saw it. (1:44:51)

What is wrong with your thought process? If it wasn't made by humans, and we have proof, visual proof, radar proof, and you're not going to admit that it was from a non-human source, then I just can't say much to you. You know, that's like people who say we never went to the moon. Well, if you choose to believe that, it's very unlikely there's anything I can say to you to prove it to you. But it's a stupid thing to say, because we went to the moon. Yes, I agree. (1:45:36)

And so you think... I guess, is there any reason that you could consider in your experience, your life experience, that we should not at least publicly admit that this technology exists? Is it really our adversaries? Or why do you think it hasn't been released? (1:45:57)

Well, look at the Iran-Contra affair. Look at Watergate. Look at the Pentagon Papers. The natural state of a bureaucracy is to inhibit anything that could disrupt that bureaucracy. And so the government fundamentally does not want to disturb the bureaucracy that it has created for the American public and the world public. Because this isn't just an American event. Plenty of governments and very qualified people worldwide have seen and witnessed these events. And yet, they still say, oh, well, we are just undecided on what it is. (1:46:56)

I'll tell you what it reminds me of. Have you ever seen the Naked Gun movies? Yes, loved them. Frank Drebin is standing on this street. He's holding up his arms. Behind him is a Chinese fireworks factory that is on fire and exploding in every direction. And Frank Drebin has his back to this fireworks factory that is blowing up. And he said, nothing to see here. And go back home. Nothing to see here. (1:47:30)

That's what our government continues to do. You know, do you think your coming out will make a difference? It certainly seems like David Grush and David Fravor, the other people motivated you to speak out. You know, do you think your speaking out now will help, will encourage other people? I certainly hope so. (1:48:05)

There are lots and lots of people who have these stories. But, you know, for 33 years, I did not tell this story. Well, now that I've told this story, largely because of guys like Commander Fravor and David Grush, maybe one more person coming out and telling their story will be enough to convince one other person to step forward. (1:48:34)

And every time we have someone else step forward and tell their story, their true story, it just makes it harder and harder for Frank Drebin to say, there's nothing to see here. But yet the government is determined that they will even create UFO investigation things and have those people paid to say there's nothing to see here, when you know there is. Is there anything else you want to share that you'd like the audience to know? (1:49:07)

Oh, how many hours you got? I have almost 2,000 in fighters. Not quite. Yeah, I didn't go on enough deployments to 2,000. No, no, I meant for me to tell stories. Oh, okay. Yeah. So you can... To give you an idea of who I am, when I was in West Germany, and my commander told me I was one of the best officers that he's worked with, but that I cannot save the world. And so he said, Greg, back off a little. (1:49:49)

You cannot change the world all by yourself. Well, the Secretary of Defense came to visit our air base. And two days before he arrived, the schedule was set. He was going to go by the troop medical clinic that I ran. And my commander called me to his office and said, Greg, you're a fine officer. (1:50:29)

I trust you in every way except for speaking to the Secretary of Defense. On Wednesday morning, you've got a helicopter. You can fly anywhere you want in Germany. But you cannot return to base until I clear you too. Because if you are at the clinic, and the Secretary of Defense asks you a question, you're going to tell him what you think. (1:50:51)

And that is not advantageous for my purposes. So you've got a helicopter, fly anywhere you want. So I just flew around looking at castles all day. And then when the Secretary of Defense left, I came back and did my stuff. But he did not want me talking to the Secretary of Defense, because I would have told him exactly what I thought about a number of different issues. (1:51:17)

What was more fun than flying helicopters or the F-16? Helicopters. Yeah, I heard they're amazing to fly. Well, you can do all kinds of things in a helicopter. For instance, one time, we were supposed to be flying out on Route Yellow. And I was in an OH-58 with another pilot. And as we were getting to the entrance of Route Yellow, he said, hey, Doc, do you mind if we sort of deviate from course a little bit? And I said, well, maybe. What do you have in mind? He said, well, there's this large creek over here, and I'm a fisherman. (1:52:08)

But what I'd like to do, if you don't mind, is sort of go down that place and look for a good fishing hole. So I said, well, okay, we can do it. So I was at the controls. So I took us over. And so we went into a little 15-foot hover and just sort of working our way down this creek. (1:52:28)

And as we go around this one bend, there's this German guy that's fishing. And so the other pilot, you have a knee pad, and you can ride on it. He said, okay, yeah, let's check that guy out. And so he motioned to him. And so the guy lifted his stringer, and he's got all this fish on it. (1:52:50)

So he said, okay, this is what I want. Go up to about 25 feet and follow that road he's on. And let's see where it goes. So he made himself a map while I was flying us over. And then when we got to the main road, he said, there's a little town that way. (1:53:09)

And so I flew us over to where we could see the the name of the little town. And so he said, okay, I've got my map. Let's go back to yellow. So we went back to yellow and off we go. One time I was in a Huey and we were flying along and we were doing nap of the earth, which means we did not want to be more than 10 feet above the ground at any point. (1:53:38)

If there was a tree or mountain sticking up, we went around the tree, not over the tree. So we're flying along. It's a summer day and the doors are open in the cargo area. And as we went across this field of yellow flowers, all of a sudden the rotor wash picked up the smell of these flowers and just engulfed us. (1:54:00)

We couldn't smell the JP4. We couldn't smell hydraulics. All we could smell was these flowers. So we're all looking at each other. (1:54:04)

Hey, do you smell that? Yeah. And so when we got to the other edge and we left the flowers behind within a few seconds, here's all the JP4 smell, the hydraulics and all that kind of stuff. But for like 20 seconds, all we could smell were these flowers. And so it's something that stands out in my mind. Yeah, you can't do either of those things in an F-16. I guess you could if you used a targeting pod. You could see if the guy was catching a fish. (1:54:50)

You actually could see if there was fish on his line. Then you could track the road back. So I guess you could do that. It'd be a lot more difficult. But I guess it's possible if the trees... Yeah, especially with the speed that the Viper would be moving. It took me four or five minutes in the helicopter to note all of the stuff because the road went back and there was a fork coming off. (1:55:17)

So he had to mark, not this fork, go this way. And so he not only made the map, but he had to give himself instructions for how to follow the map. Excellent. Well, thanks again, Greg, Dr. Rogers, and for your book. I hope that we see it in the future. And if it's not self-published that another publisher picks it up, but I'd recommend everyone in the audience to check it out. (1:55:49)

So Impact by Dr. Gregory Rogers, and I wish they took your advice back then. And hopefully they'll take your advice now and come clean and start sharing this information with the public. Yeah. Well, let me give you another example. When I got to Kennedy Space Center, in the left lower leg pocket of the astronauts, they had two chemlights. (1:56:17)

And so if they bailed out into the Atlantic ocean, they were supposed to pick up these chemlights and show them to us in the dark. Well, they were red chemlights. Our night vision goggles couldn't see them unless we were really close to them. Now then, if you had green chemlights, we could see them from five miles away. (1:56:35)

It took a year and a half for me to convince NASA to switch to green chemlights because they said, well, it might ruin the vision of the astronaut. I said, I don't care about the astronaut. I care about my vision and the vision of my crew. We cannot save them if we don't see them. Our vision is most important. If we see the green chemlight, we know where to go save that astronaut. (1:57:04)

It took a year and a half for me to convince them to switch to green chemlights. Also, green doesn't ruin your night vision anyway. I mean, that's why we use green lights in the cockpit of the F-16. It's our enviz. Well, by the time we're hovering over them, we're going to have our own lights. So lighting is not going to be an issue if we can identify this is where we need to do a lift and save this astronaut's life. We'll have our own lights and they're going to be brighter than the chemlights. (1:57:41)

But the most important thing is we have to locate the astronauts before we can save them. (1:57:50)

So my purpose was to save the lives of the astronauts, not play political games with the NASA managers. Okay, well, thank you, Dr. Rogers. And thank you so much for being on the show and for chatting. It's been a true pleasure and I hope we can stay in contact. I'd like to send the prompt to get you to describe, actually, in as many words as you can. (1:58:23)

And we can use some AI artwork to see if we can get a better rendition of the craft, make it as accurate as possible, if you'd be willing to help me with that. Excellent. So I'll be showing that through the interview. Not a problem. Amazing. Okay. Thank you, sir. Okay, well, thank you. And I thank you for your service. People say that in general. (1:58:48)

People say that in general. But, you know, there's no way they know everything that we have to go through to serve our country, especially when you're doing something as dangerous as flying an F-16. The average person out there cannot imagine everything you went through with flight training and night navigation and all the different things. I can't imagine it. It's just kind of like a dream, like another life. (1:59:26)

But it's paid off. I have relatively minimal issues. And I'm here, you know, a lot of my friends didn't make it, actually. So I try and do my best and live. I try and live with integrity and do right, but what I think is correct, not by, you know, what other people... Well, even with peacetime aircraft mishaps, I had to go pick up parts of what used to be my friends. (1:59:56)

Now, then the average person out there never has to do anything like that. So they can't relate to it. Well, I hope they listen. Would you consider going to, talking to Congress, talk to any congressional members? I've been asked that question, especially while I was out at contact in the desert, and I said that I would. (2:00:36)

But the caveat is just like with the Secretary of Defense. If you put me in front of Congress, I'm going to tell what I believe. So if you're wanting someone to say any particular things, that's not me. Don't even bother. If I go, I'm going to tell what I think. Well, perfect. Well, I hope you go, sir. I really do. That would be amazing. (2:01:11)

So anyone watching, please, let's try and make this happen. Okay, well, thank you so much. I really appreciate being here. And I enjoyed talking to you. So, you know, these days, even though I work at the McAllister Army ammunition plant for 14 years prior to retiring, there were not a lot of people out there that really knew the tactical aviation world or the space launch world or anything like that. (2:01:40)

So when I get a chance to talk to somebody who speaks the same language, so to speak, it's always a pleasure. And I remember back fondly with the flight surgeons we had, you know, and they completely helped me and my wife and my family. So I think, you know, you guys make a real impact. So I want to thank flight surgeons and all the ones that helped us really did over the years. Well, that's what we're supposed to do. (2:02:10)

If we're not doing it, there's something wrong. Yeah, they definitely did. No, we had amazing flight surgeons. So no, I want to thank you for your service, man, for helping everybody you did and continuing to do now. So yeah, it's really impressive and motivating. It makes it, you know, a pleasure to do this job, really makes it rewarding to do this, you know, get a lot of troll comments. (2:02:41)

And, you know, it's difficult coming out and speaking about this topic. You know, I could easily be making videos about the war. I could be talking about the weapons and the fighting and everything and getting way more views. But I, you know, I think this is much more meaningful. So I think history will show that you're doing the right thing and that it's going to be the honorable thing in the end. So thank you again. (2:03:00)

Well, thank you. I appreciate being on your show. (2:03:04)

I don't know if you could tell during that interview, but I really was blown away. By his story. And then just chatting with him over a few hours and the email we had beforehand. I just felt this special bond, just like I was back in a fighter squadron. And you know, the flight surgeon flies with you in your squadron. (2:03:30)

And he's your friend, you know, you fly with them all the time, they'll fly in the back seat. And then when you go to get checks, when you go to get help, you know, you have issues with your family, issues with your kids. You know, I remember Doc Smith, amazing flight surgeon I had. He had incredible stories that I won't share here. (2:03:51)

But I remember him helping my family when my wife was pregnant, you know, and really helping us. And you just feel like you have this friend, a great close friend who is a doctor. That's what I would say a flight surgeon is. And that's really what they got to. And as we talked about with Dr. Rogers, early in the day, he had met that one doctor who knocked he kept track of the pilots that he had denift, which is removed from flying permanently, not denift, but removed from flying permanently. (2:04:19)

And I think that was the previous days. And also we didn't try and make our doctors puke, you know, I never did that. Plus, you're sitting in a cockpit with someone who just puked, it's super gross. So I actually flew smooth. And most of the time, it didn't even matter. They would still puke, not the doctors, doctors would get used to it. And the story was amazing. (2:04:40)

I didn't ask him during the interview, how large was the craft, but afterwards, it was 20 feet long, he said, and about 10 feet tall. And then he worked with my AI designer, thank you to Colin Stone, amazing designer, does my thumbnails as well. And he was able to create those renders that you see throughout the video. And yeah, it seems like the sports model, Bob Lazar came out in, what, 89. So this was three years after. (2:05:06)

What are the chances that they could have made this craft in that time? You know, it seems like it's a perfect alignment with Bob Lazar's story. And the electrostatic effects, I hadn't heard that before. I do remember the amazing electrostatic UFO that was up in Canada, right, with the defense contractor saw. (2:05:30)

And that's really the first time I seriously started considering that these are electrostatic machines that actually use, obviously, electromagnetic energy, which we understand is one form of that is light. But light is electric and magnetic. And so, yeah, these craft use some sort of advanced technology able to bend what we understand of as gravity, which I believe is the interaction of light and matter. (2:05:55)

And again, we don't really know what matter is. We just know that light interacts with it. And so, we still have a lot to learn. (2:06:01)

But I think this is just deep insight into the program that I think exists, and seems to obviously exist inside the animal that is the military industrial complex of the United States. And the question is, when will this information come out? You know, it will come out sooner or later. At some point in the future, we'll find out about this. (2:06:24)

Just remember, nations have always done this in the past, right? There's no way Spain or Portugal ever shared how they traveled to the New World. You know, Portugal had a way to go around the southern tip of Africa. And there's no way in hell they shared that with any of their adversaries, right? And they became the richest, most powerful country in Europe. And they were a tiny little nation, if you think about that. (2:06:47)

And that's really through information and technological superiority, right? Their ships and their cannons, and they had the information and the adventurous spirit to go way far west, hitting Brazil, and that swooped them around the southern tip of Africa. And so they were able to enter a new world with information and technology. And there is no way in hell they shared that information, right? But we know it now, right? Looking back in the past, we know what happened. (2:07:14)

So this is not something new. Nations have always done this. Why would we expect them to be any different? Why would we expect the United States to be any different from all the nations of the past? So I think this program will come out, but it will take courageous people with integrity, like Dr. Rogers, speaking out on these topics. (2:07:36)

And you saw he was motivated by David Grush and Commander Fravor. And I am excited to hear of anyone motivated by Dr. Rogers. And I would say, go and do it, right? What is your life going to mean at the end anyway, if you're going to die with this secret that is information that could really affect the world? And I believe in a positive way, right? The world is in a terrible hurt right now. (2:07:58)

We're on the brink of World War Three, if you will. And something's got to change. And this idea of just keeping everything secret, just so your nation can pull further ahead of the other nations, I don't think is a long-term, viable strategy. And all nations perish, right? Every nation will perish. It's just a matter of time, like you will perish. (2:08:20)

So what is your memory going to be? What are people going to remember you for? And what are people going to remember our nations for? The nation of the United States, will it be remembered as keeping this information secret from humanity forever, like the Portuguese did, just to gain a national advantage? So we'll see. So if you want to support the channel, please do subscribe to get future notifications. (2:08:41)

And you can support the channel further at patreon.com forward slash Chris Slato or become a YouTube member. It does really help. (2:08:47)

You can join the likes of these amazing people. Thanks again for your support and for watching. Have a great rest of your day. Peace. (2:08:55)

(2025-06-30)

前置き​

情報源 : Youtube 動画(2:08:56)​

静止画​

詳細ブリーフィングドキュメント：UFO、脳損傷、航空の安全性、および政府の透明性

タイムライン

1980年7月3日：​

1980年代初頭：​

1980年代後半：​

1980年代：​

1992年：​

1993年：​

1995年：​

日付不明（ロジャーズ博士のキャリア中）：​

2004年：​

日付不明（ロジャーズ博士のキャリア中）：​

2023年11月：​

2024年4月：​

2024年4月30日：​

2024年5月5日：​

日付不明（2024年5月以降）：​

登場人物

グレゴリー・ロジャーズ博士 (Dr. Gregory Rogers)：​

クリス・レト (Chris Lehto)：​

コマンダー・フレイバー (Commander Fravor)：​

デビッド・グラッシュ (David Grush)：​

ヒュー・ハリス (Hugh Harris)：​

バズ・オルドリン (Buzz Aldrin)：​

チャック・ホーナー (Chuck Horner)：​

司令官シャール (Commander Schall)：​

タイラー・ロバーツ (Tyler Roberts)：​

ミンディ・トプフェス (Mindy Topfess)：​

ドクター・スミス (Doc Smith)：​

（名前不明の）メジャー：​

（名前不明の）海軍のパイロット：​

（名前不明の）F-16パイロット：​

（名前不明の）ヒューイパイロット：​

（名前不明の）フレンチー (Frenchies)：​

（名前不明の）以前の飛行外科医：​

ロジャーズ博士の信頼性と背景​

1992年のUAP目撃の詳細​

目撃状況:​

機体の特徴:​

機体の能力:​

少佐の発言:​

目撃時間:​

沈黙の理由と開示の決断​

UAPに関するロジャーズ博士の洞察と理論​

Tic Tacとの比較:​

広範な意味合いと情報の隠蔽​

コンピューター画面での目撃の詳細​

「創作されたコンピュータ・グラフィックス映像」の可能性に対するロジャーズ博士の見解​

この証言の謎を推測する​

前置き

情報源 : Youtube 動画(2:08:56)

静止画

1980年7月3日：

1980年代初頭：

1980年代後半：

1980年代：

1992年：

1993年：

1995年：

日付不明（ロジャーズ博士のキャリア中）：

2004年：

日付不明（ロジャーズ博士のキャリア中）：

2023年11月：

2024年4月：

2024年4月30日：

2024年5月5日：

日付不明（2024年5月以降）：

グレゴリー・ロジャーズ博士 (Dr. Gregory Rogers)：

クリス・レト (Chris Lehto)：

コマンダー・フレイバー (Commander Fravor)：

デビッド・グラッシュ (David Grush)：

ヒュー・ハリス (Hugh Harris)：

バズ・オルドリン (Buzz Aldrin)：

チャック・ホーナー (Chuck Horner)：

司令官シャール (Commander Schall)：

タイラー・ロバーツ (Tyler Roberts)：

ミンディ・トプフェス (Mindy Topfess)：

ドクター・スミス (Doc Smith)：

（名前不明の）メジャー：

（名前不明の）海軍のパイロット：

（名前不明の）F-16パイロット：

（名前不明の）ヒューイパイロット：

（名前不明の）フレンチー (Frenchies)：

（名前不明の）以前の飛行外科医：

ロジャーズ博士の信頼性と背景

1992年のUAP目撃の詳細

目撃状況:

機体の特徴:

機体の能力:

少佐の発言:

目撃時間:

沈黙の理由と開示の決断

UAPに関するロジャーズ博士の洞察と理論

Tic Tacとの比較:

広範な意味合いと情報の隠蔽

コンピューター画面での目撃の詳細

「創作されたコンピュータ・グラフィックス映像」の可能性に対するロジャーズ博士の見解

この証言の謎を推測する