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Robert Hastings : UFO の核ミサイル基地侵略と自身の abduction 体験を語る

· 約102分

前置き​

以下が目新しい。

  • Robert Hastings が語る自身の abduction 体験の詳細。

  • Robert Jacobs が見せられた UFO 動画を Elizondo も見た。

当時、ジェイコブス氏は空軍に所属し、カリフォルニアのヴァンデンバーグ空軍基地に所属する望遠カメラチームを率いていました。

彼の任務はミサイル発射を撮影することでした。

彼と彼のチームは、太平洋上を飛行していたダミー弾頭の周囲を旋回するUFOを誤ってフィルムに捉えました。

フィルムには、UFOから弾頭に向かって向けられた4つの閃光が記録されており、その結果、弾頭は回転し始め、太平洋に落下しました。

元AATIP（先進航空宇宙脅威識別プログラム）責任者のルー・エリゾンド氏は、このフィルムを見たことを公に認めており、ジェイコブス氏が報告した内容、すなわちUFOがダミー核弾頭を飛行中に撃墜したことを確認しています。

  • Robert Jacobs が自身も abduction 体験があると告げた。
AI

音声対話​

https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/057e4bf0-9e03-4c96-a918-f493d6709184/audio

AI

UFOと核兵器：秘密の遭遇

この文書は、ロバート・ヘイスティングスがUFOと核兵器の関係について行った長年の調査に関する対談の抜粋です。ヘイスティングスは、彼がインタビューした167人もの軍関係者や技術者からの証言に基づいて、UFOがアメリカと旧ソ連の核兵器施設に何度も関与してきたことを詳細に述べています。

彼は、これらの出来事が核ミサイルの作動を妨害したり、誤って作動させたり、弾頭を撃墜したりする能力を示す意図的な示威行為であると推測しています。さらに、ヘイスティングスは自身の個人的な誘拐体験も語り、UFO目撃と地球外生命体との遭遇には関連があると考えています。

政府による数十年にわたる情報隠蔽と証言者への脅迫についても触れられていますが、最近ではAATIPのような組織を通じて情報が公開されつつあることが示唆されています。

情報源 : Youtube 動画(1:00:48)​

Nuclear Weapons and UFOs with Robert Hastings

AI

要約書：UFOと核兵器：秘密の遭遇

概要​

本要約書は、心理学者ジェフリー・ミシュローブがロバート・ヘイスティングス氏をゲストに招いた「Thinking Allowed」のインタビューからの抜粋を元に、UFOと核兵器施設における異常な遭遇に関する長年の研究と証言を詳述する。

ヘイスティングス氏は、40年以上にわたる調査を通じて、UFOが地球上の核兵器システムに対して明確な関心を持ち、その機能に干渉してきたことを主張している。さらに、ヘイスティングス氏は自身のUFOによる誘拐体験についても語り、この現象が軍事的遭遇と関連している可能性を示唆している。

主要テーマと重要な事実​

  1. UFOと核兵器の関連性

  • ヘイスティングス氏は、UFOが核兵器システムに深く関心を持っているという結論に至るために、167人もの軍事退役軍人（主に空軍、一部陸軍、海軍）と民間技術者（サンディア、ロスアラモス核研究所）にインタビューを行った。「核兵器がUFOと呼ばれるものを飛ばしている者たちにとって関心事である」と述べている。(0:06:40)

  • この現象は米国に限定されず、元ソ連でも同様の事件が報告されている。特に、1982年10月にソ連ウクライナで、巨大な円盤型UFOが核ミサイル基地上空をホバリングした後、ミサイルが「カウントダウンモードに入った」という事件があった。これはジャーナリストのジョージ・ナップがロシアから密輸した文書によって明らかになり、後に元ソ連軍関係者によって確認された。(0:07:27)

  • 米国でも同様の事件が頻発している。

    • ミノット空軍基地（1966年か1967年頃）: キャプテン・デイヴィッド・シューアが証言。彼の管轄下にある10基のミニットマン核ミサイルのうち、7〜8基がUFOが上空を移動するにつれて「発射準備中」状態になった。(0:10:17)
    • マルムストロム空軍基地（1967年3月24日夜）: キャプテン・ロバート・サラスが証言。彼の管轄下にある10基のミサイルが、UFOの出現と同時に「オフラインになり、非アクティブになった」と報告された。これはミノットの事件とは反対の現象である。(0:14:38)
    • ウォーカー空軍基地（1963年〜1964年頃）: アトラスミサイル基地でも、光る物体がミサイルサイト上空をホバリングする事件が頻繁に報告された。ここではミサイルの機能には影響がなかったとされている。(0:17:42)
    • エルスワース空軍基地（1977年11月頃）: マリオ・ウッズが証言。巨大な球状のUFOがミサイルサイロ上空をホバリングしているのを目撃。その直後、彼と彼のパートナーは息ができない状態になり、数時間後に別の場所に移動していた。(0:44:24)
  1. UFOの特性と意図
  • 目撃されたUFOは「光るか金属製に見え、円盤型、時に球状で、1960年代はおろか2025年でもどの航空機もできないような操縦」を行っていたと述べられている。(0:19:27)
  • 目撃者のほとんどが、UFOの技術は地球上のものとは「桁違いに異なっていた」と結論付けている。(0:20:22)
  • ヘイスティングス氏は、UFOの干渉は「意図的なものであり、その技術的な能力、そして推測されるに、その意図を示すためのデモンストレーション」であると考えている。(0:38:32)
  • 彼らは「核保有国をひどく恐れさせようとしている」と推測し、ミサイルの活性化や非活性化は「第三次世界大戦を開始しようとしたのではなく、彼らが始めた発射シーケンスを、彼ら自身が停止させたか、あるいは米国の発射担当者がそれを停止できることを知っていた」と考えている。(0:38:51)
  • このような干渉は、大規模な核紛争が彼らの地球上の「計画」を妨害するため、部分的に人類への「利他的」な行為である可能性があり、また「自己利益のため」でもあると推測されている。(0:39:17)
  1. 政府の秘密主義と隠蔽工作
  • ヘイスティングス氏がインタビューした軍関係者のほとんどは、事件後、空軍特別捜査局（OSI）のエージェントから「秘密保持契約書に署名させられ、口外すれば重い法的罰則と金銭的罰金が科せられる」と脅迫されたと証言している。(0:47:25)
  • 多くの証言者が、何十年も沈黙を守り続けたのは、この脅迫のためである。(0:48:08)
  • ヘイスティングス氏自身も、1981年に講演活動を開始して以来、「誰かのレーダーに載っている」と感じるような経験をしている。彼が退役軍人とのインタビューを終えるたびに、「1、2分以内に別の電話がかかってきて、誰も話さず、重い息遣いだけが聞こえた」という。(0:49:27)
  • 彼はFBIのファイルが存在することを知っており、CIAとNSAからは「確認も否定もできない」という回答を得ている。また、電話やメールの通信問題といった「低レベルの嫌がらせ」も経験している。(0:51:29)
  • ヘイスティングス氏は、政府が「UFOが核兵器を停止させたり、起動させたりするような劇的なことについて、何十年も私たちを闇の中に置いておく権利はない」と強く主張している。(0:56:14)
  1. 誘拐体験との関連性
  • ヘイスティングス氏は、自身がUFO誘拐体験者であると明かしている。彼には子供の頃の誘拐体験の「フラッシュバック」があり、1988年8月以降も複数回経験している。(0:21:20)
  • 彼の共著者であるボブ・ジェイコブスも同様の誘拐体験を報告している。(0:32:46)
  • ヘイスティングス氏がインタビューした167人の退役軍人のうち、7人がUFO誘拐体験を報告しており、ロバート・サラスもその一人である。これは、「核兵器の運用や警備を担当していた人々が、人生の別の時点で異星人による誘拐体験をしていた」という点で、偶然ではないことを示唆している。(0:42:25)
  • 誘拐体験で遭遇するエンティティは、一般的に「グレイ」と呼ばれ、「身長約4フィート半、大きな頭、大きな黒い目」をしていると描写されている。また、彼らとのテレパシーによるコミュニケーションがあったと述べている。(0:26:20)
  • ヘイスティングス氏は、ミサイルを停止させているエンティティと、彼が遭遇したエンティティは「同じエンティティ」であると推測している。(0:25:56)
  • マリオ・ウッズの事件では、ミサイルサイト上空のUFOに遭遇した後に「小さな人影」が現れ、彼らが数時間後に別の場所に移動していた記憶がないことが、誘拐体験と核事件の直接的な関連性を示唆している。(0:45:21)
  1. 「ディスクロージャー」の進展とヘイスティングス氏の役割
  • ヘイスティングス氏は、自身の研究と情報の公開を強く推し進めてきた。1981年から2016年にかけて、500回以上の講演を行っている。(0:24:41)
  • 彼は、近年アアティップ（AATIP）の元責任者であるルー・エリゾンドが、彼の研究が「正しかった」と公に認めたことに言及し、「核兵器との関連性にようやく注目が集まっている」と感じている。(0:56:53)
  • ヘイスティングス氏は、自身の活動は「答えを必要としていた頑固な男」であったと謙遜しつつも、公に話す勇気を持った退役軍人こそが「ヒーロー」であると称賛している。(0:57:59)
注記

タイムライン

  • 1963-1964年頃: ニューメキシコ州ロズウェルにあるウォーカー空軍基地（Atlasミサイル基地）で、複数回にわたり、発光する未確認飛行物体がミサイルサイトの真上を飛行する事件が発生。ミサイルの機能に影響はなかったものの、警備員が目撃を報告。

  • 1964年: ボブ・ジェイコブスがカリフォルニア州のヴァンデンバーグ空軍基地に所属する望遠鏡カメラチームの責任者として、ミサイル発射の撮影中に、飛行するダミー弾頭の周りを旋回するUFOを偶然撮影。フィルムには、UFOから弾頭に向かって4つの光が発せられ、その後に弾頭が太平洋に落下する様子が映っていた。このフィルムはCIAによって押収された。

  • 1966年頃: ロバート・ヘイスティングスがモンタナ州マルムストロム空軍基地の航空交通管制塔で清掃員として働いていた際、FAAのボブ・グラッサーからレーダー上で未確認の飛行物体が複数表示されていること、そしてその物体が核ミサイルサイトの近くで機動しているという噂があることを聞く。ヘイスティングスの父親もNORADのSAGEビルでこれらの物体が追跡されていたことを確認。

  • 1966年8月: ミノット空軍基地でのUFO活動に関する事件が発生。この事件は、プロジェクト・ブルーブックの科学顧問であるJ・アレン・ハイネック博士によって、1966年12月のサタデー・イブニング・ポスト誌で報じられた。

  • 1966年または1967年（夜間）: ノースダコタ州ミノット空軍基地のEcho Flightで、デイビッド・シャワー大尉が地下のミサイル発射カプセルにいたところ、円盤形の発光物体がミサイルサイトの上で機動しているとの報告を受ける。直後、そのミサイルが「発射準備中」の状態になり、シャワー大尉は緊急停止ボタンでこれを止めた。その後、この物体はシャワー大尉が管理する10基のミサイルのうち7～8基に同様の影響を与えたとされる。ミノットの別の発射士官、ラリー・マンロスも同様の経験があったと証言。

  • 1967年3月24日（夜間）: モンタナ州マルムストロム空軍基地でロバート・サラス大尉の担当するミサイルが機能停止する事件が発生。サラスは発射カプセルで一人だったが、警備員から「複数の奇妙な物体が空を飛び回り、非常に奇妙な機動をしている」との報告を受ける。数分後、警備員から物体が発射制御施設の正面ゲートの真上にいると連絡が入る。その直後、サラスが管理する10基のミサイルすべてがオフライン（機能停止）になった。サラスは指揮官のフレデリック・マイワルドを起こし、対処にあたった。その後、サラスとマイワルドは、国家機密としてこの件を誰にも話さないよう訓戒を受ける。

  • 1977年11月（感謝祭の頃）: エルズワース空軍基地の警備員マリオ・ウッズが、担当するNovember Flightのミサイルサイトの一つで異常な警報を受け、パートナーと現場に急行。そこでWalmartの建物ほどの大きさの球状の物体がミサイルサイロの数フィート上空にホバリングしているのを目撃する。直後、彼らが乗っていたトラックの空気が吸い出されたような状態になり、息ができなくなる。ウッズは窓の外に小さな人影がトラックに近づいてくるのを見た後、意識を失い、気づくと5マイル離れた場所に移動していた。後にウッズは退行催眠によって、非人間的存在との遭遇を思い出す。

  • 1981年: ロバート・ヘイスティングスが大学での講演活動を開始し、UFOと核兵器に関する政府の隠蔽工作について語る。この講演を通じて、彼は多くの軍退役軍人から同様の事件に関する証言を得始める。

  • 1982年2月: ヘイスティングスが講演で出会った退役軍人への電話インタビューを開始。各インタビューの後に、重い息遣いしか聞こえない無言電話を受けるようになり、自身が政府の監視下にあることを自覚する。

  • 1982年10月: ソ連ウクライナで、中間射程弾道ミサイル基地の上空に大きな円盤形物体が低空でホバリングする事件が発生。地上部隊が対空ミサイルを発射したかどうかは不明だが、その後、基地の核ミサイルが約15秒間、発射カウントダウンモードに入った。この事件は、後にジャーナリストのジョージ・ナップがロシアから密輸した文書によって明らかにされ、後に複数の元ソ連軍関係者によって確認された。

  • 1985年: ロバート・サラスがカリフォルニアの自宅で誘拐体験をするとされる。この件は、2013年に彼自身が公表するまで秘密にされていた。

  • 1986年: ロバート・ヘイスティングスがボブ・ジェイコブスと電話で知り合う。

  • 1988年8月: ロバート・ヘイスティングスがニューメキシコ州アルバカーキ近郊でのキャンプ中に、非人間的存在による誘拐体験をする。この経験により、彼自身のUFO現象における軍事的側面以外の、個人的な遭遇の可能性を認識し始める。

  • 1993年または1994年: ジャーナリストのジョージ・ナップがロシアを訪問し、元ソ連軍関係者と会い、ソ連でのUFO活動に関する情報を得る。この際、前述の1982年のソ連ウクライナでの事件に関する文書を密輸。

  • 1995年初頭: ロバート・ヘイスティングスがペンシルベニア州ピッツバーグのホテルで、非人間的存在による誘拐体験をする。この際、彼は意識のある状態で宙に浮き、天井を通り抜けたと推測。また、この事件と同時にホテルで停電が発生し、それがUFOの存在と関連している可能性を示唆。

  • 2007年: ロバート・ヘイスティングスがデイビッド・シャワー大尉（ミノット空軍基地での発射準備中事件の証人）にインタビューを行い、その証言を録音。

  • 2008年: ロバート・ヘイスティングスの著書「UFOs and Nukes, Extraordinary Encounters at Nuclear Weapons Sites」が初版出版。

  • 2010年10月23日: ワイオミング州F.E.ウォーレン空軍基地で大規模なUFO関連事件が発生。5つのミサイル警戒施設が基地との通信を突然喪失。後に、2人のミサイル整備技術者が、通信問題発生時にミサイル上空に巨大な葉巻形物体が飛んでいるのを目撃したと報告される。ヘイスティングスはこの事件以降、体調不良のため研究活動を縮小。

  • 2011年: ヘイスティングスの代理で、FBIにFOI（情報公開法）申請が行われ、FBIが彼に関するファイルを持っていることを認めるが、そのファイルは紛失していると主張。

  • 2012年5月: ロバート・ヘイスティングスがボブ・ジェイコブスのスタジオで退役軍人へのビデオインタビューを実施。その際、ヘイスティングスは自身の誘拐体験についてジェイコブスに初めて話し、ジェイコブスもまた同様の経験を持っていたことが判明する。

  • 2013年: ロバート・サラスが、1985年に自身が誘拐体験をしたことを公に明かす。

  • 2017年: ロバート・ヘイスティングスの著書「UFOs and Nukes, Extraordinary Encounters at Nuclear Weapons Sites」が第二版出版。

  • 2017年: マリオ・ウッズがロバート・ヘイスティングスに自身のエピソードを話す。

  • 2018年: ロバート・ヘイスティングスとボブ・ジェイコブスが、彼らの誘拐体験について共著「Confession, Our Hidden Alien Encounters Revealed」を出版。

  • 現在: ロバート・ヘイスティングスは、自身が「経験者（experiencer）」であり、UFO現象と非人間的存在による誘拐は核兵器サイトでの出来事と関連していると考えている。彼は、政府がこれらの情報を秘密にし続けていることに批判的であり、自身の活動が公衆に真実を伝える上で重要であると考えている。

注記

登場人物

ロバート・ヘイスティングス（Robert Hastings） : 本インタビューのゲストであり、「UFOs and Nukes, Extraordinary Encounters at Nuclear Weapons Sites」の著者。核兵器とUFOの関連性について40年以上にわたり、167人もの軍退役軍人を含む多数の証人にインタビューを行ってきた研究者。自身も非人間的存在との遭遇（誘拐体験）を複数回経験している「経験者」であると自認している。公衆にこの情報を伝えることに強い使命感を持っている。

ジェフリー・ミシュロブ（Jeffrey Mishlove） : 本インタビューの聞き手であり、心理学者。「Thinking Allowed」のホスト。ヘイスティングスの研究と個人的な経験について掘り下げる。

ボブ・グラッサー（Bob Grasser） : FAA（連邦航空局）の監督者。1966年頃、マルムストロム空軍基地の航空交通管制塔で働いていたヘイスティングスに、レーダー上の未確認目標と、それらが核ミサイルサイト付近で機動しているという噂について話した人物。

ロバート・ヘイスティングスの父親 : 空軍のキャリア軍人。1967年にマルムストロム空軍基地に勤務しており、NORADのSAGEビルで未確認目標が追跡され、本物のUFOと見なされているという噂を息子に伝えた。

ジョージ・ナップ（George Knapp） : ジャーナリスト。1993年か1994年頃、ロシアを訪れて元ソ連軍関係者と面会し、ソ連でのUFO事件、特に1982年のウクライナでのミサイル発射カウントダウン事件に関する文書を密輸した。

デイビッド・シャワー大尉（Captain David Schuur） : 元空軍ミサイル発射士官。2007年にヘイスティングスのインタビューに応じ、1966年か1967年頃にミノット空軍基地のEcho Flightで、UFOの出現と同時に複数のミサイルが「発射準備中」状態になった事件について証言した。

ラリー・マンロス（Larry Manross） : 元空軍大尉、発射士官。シャワー大尉と同じ時期にミノット空軍基地に勤務しており、彼のカプセルでも同様の事件が起こったことを確認した人物。

J・アレン・ハイネック博士（Dr. J. Allen Hynek） : プロジェクト・ブルーブックの科学顧問。1966年12月のサタデー・イブニング・ポスト誌で、ミノット空軍基地でのUFO活動に関する記事を執筆した。

ロバート・サラス大尉（Captain Robert Salas） : 元空軍ミサイル発射士官。1967年3月24日のマルムストロム空軍基地での事件の主要な目撃者。UFOの出現と同時に、彼が管理する10基のミサイルすべてが機能停止した。この事件は国家機密とされ、彼は長年沈黙を守っていたが、1994年か1995年頃から公に話し始め、2013年には自身も誘拐体験をしていたことを明かした。

フレデリック・マイワルド大尉（Captain Frederick Mywald） : ロバート・サラスの指揮官。1967年のマルムストロム空軍基地での事件時、サラスと共にミサイルの機能停止に対応した。サラスと同様に、事件後、国家機密として口外しないよう訓戒を受けた。

マリオ・ウッズ（Mario Woods） : 元空軍警備員。1977年11月にエルズワース空軍基地のミサイルサイトで、球状のUFOの目撃とそれに伴う窒息感、意識消失、遠距離への移動といった異常な体験をした。後に退行催眠によって非人間的存在との遭遇を思い出す。

ボブ・ジェイコブス（Bob Jacobs） : ロバート・ヘイスティングスの共著者（「Confession, Our Hidden Alien Encounters Revealed」）。元空軍で、1964年のビッグサーUFO事件（UFOがダミー核弾頭を「撃墜」したとされる事件）の目撃者であり、望遠鏡カメラチームの責任者だった。ヘイスティングスと同様に、自身も誘拐体験を複数回経験している。

ルー・エリゾンド（Lew Elizondo） : 元AATIP（先進航空宇宙脅威識別プログラム）の責任者。ボブ・ジェイコブスが撮影したビッグサー事件のフィルムを見たことを公に認めており、ヘイスティングスの研究の正当性を支持している。

ルーディ・シールド博士（Dr. Rudy Shield） : ハーバード大学の人物。UFOに関連する物理現象（物体が壁などを通り抜けること）について、量子現象である可能性を推測している。

AI

提供された情報に基づき、ロバート・ヘイスティングス氏の個人的なアブダクション体験が、彼が調査してきた著名な事件のより大きな文脈でどのように語られているかについて議論します。

ロバート・ヘイスティングス氏は、数十年にわたり、未確認飛行物体（UFO）と核兵器の関係という非常に限定的ではあるものの、非常に重要な問題を集中的に調査してきました。

彼は、『UFOs and Nukes, Extraordinary Encounters at Nuclear Weapons Sites』の著者であり、共著書『Confession, Our Hidden Alien Encounters Revealed』もあります。彼の研究は、主に米国の核兵器がUFOと呼ばれる飛行物体を操縦する存在にとって関心の対象であるという結論に至っています。しかし、彼は自身の研究を進める中で、個人的なアブダクション体験を持つ「体験者」であることも明らかにし、これが彼の研究と密接に関連していると考えています。

ヘイスティングス氏の個人的な体験については、以下の点が挙げられます。

  • 幼少期の記憶と初期の気づき:

    • 彼は1966年に雑誌でベティとバーニー・ヒル夫妻の abduction の話を読むまで、誘拐体験が一般的な話題であるとは知らなかったと述べています。
    • しかし、それよりも2年前に、彼は幼少期のアブダクション体験であった可能性のあるフラッシュバックを経験していたと述べています。

  • 1988年のアルバカーキでの体験:

    • 彼の意識的な記憶によれば、次に「何も起こらなかった」のは1988年8月までだったとのことです。
    • アルバカーキ近くの山でのキャンプ中、叫び声で目が覚めたヘイスティングス氏は、音もなく二つのストロボライトの間を動いて遠ざかる、ライトが消えた暗い物体を目撃しました。
    • 彼は当時の精神状態からそれを気にしませんでしたが、すぐに枕に血がついていることに気づきました。
    • その後、他のキャンパーから、別の一人がキャンプ以来毎晩悪夢を見ているという電話がありました。その悪夢では、ヘイスティングス氏と電話をかけてきた女性、そして彼女の8歳の娘が、キャンプ場に置かれた光る物体に向かって一列に歩いているのが描かれていました。
    • この出来事から2週間以内に、彼は長年UFO現象の軍事側面を調査してきたにもかかわらず、自身がターゲットになり得るとは想像もしていなかったと述べています。この経験から、彼は自身がアブダクションを経験している可能性に直面せざるを得なくなりました。

  • 1995年のピッツバーグでのホテルでの体験:

    • 1995年初め、彼はピッツバーグのホテルに滞在中、夜中に突然目を覚まし、心の中でメッセージを受け取りました。
    • 彼が聞いたメッセージは「私たちはあなたのためにここにいる。あなたは以前私たちに会ったことがある」というものでした。
    • 彼は「彼らがここにいる！」と叫び、ベッドから文字通り浮き上がり、天井に向かって上昇しました。
    • 彼はこの時、夢を見ているわけでも、幻覚を見ているわけでも、睡眠麻痺を経験しているわけでもなく、周囲の物理的な環境が見えていたと明言しています。
    • 数秒後、彼は意識を失い、次に目覚めたのは数時間後で、太陽の光が窓から差し込んでいました。彼は天井を通って連れ去られたと推測しており、文献には物体が壁や窓を通り抜けるという報告がよく見られると述べています。
    • この事件後、ホテルの停電が判明しました。消防士との会話から、彼のホテルとその隣のホテルだけが停電しており、同じ電力網にある通りの向かい側のレストランは問題なかったことが確認されました。UFOの目撃と停電の関連性は、世界中で多くの事例で見られる現象であると述べています。

  • 遭遇した存在とコミュニケーション:

    • ヘイスティングス氏は、彼が遭遇した存在を、一般的に「グレイ」と呼ばれる非人類型の存在と特徴づけています。彼らが会ったのは身長約137cm（4フィート半）、大きな頭部、大きな黒い目をしていました。
    • 彼は彼らとテレパシーによるコミュニケーションがあったと確信しており、主に彼らがヘイスティングス氏にこれから何が起こるか、何をされるかを伝える一方的なコミュニケーションだったと述べています。

これらの個人的な体験は、ヘイスティングス氏の核兵器とUFOに関する研究に、より大きな文脈を与えています。

  • UFOと核兵器への関心の源泉: ヘイスティングス氏は、なぜ自分がこれほど調査に駆り立てられ、公衆に情報を伝えたいという欲求を抱いてきたのか、未だに説明できないと述べています。彼は、自身の研究が自身の発案によるものなのか、あるいはUFOを操縦する存在によって無意識のうちに促されたものなのか、という疑問を抱いています。
  • 研究対象者との共通点: 彼が主要な情報源としている167人の軍退役軍人のうち、7人がアブダクション体験を報告しています。この中には、彼の共著者であるボブ・ジェイコブスも含まれており、彼らは自身の体験について公に語るために共著書『Confession』を執筆しました。また、マルムストロム空軍基地でミサイルの停止を経験したロバート・サラス大尉も、後に1985年にアブダクションを経験したと公表しました。さらに、ウォーカー空軍基地で勤務中に巨大な球状の物体を目撃し、その後行方不明になり、回帰催眠によって非人類型の存在との遭遇を思い出したマリオ・ウッズの事例も挙げられています。
  • 現象の関連性: ヘイスティングス氏は、核ミサイルを停止させる存在と、彼自身が遭遇した存在が同一である可能性が高いと考えています。彼は、アブダクション現象の文献を見ると、世界中で多くの信頼できる人々が彼と同様の体験を報告していると指摘し、これらの現象が物理的で現実的であり、全体像の一部であると考えています。
  • UFOの意図: ヘイスティングス氏の分析では、UFOは核兵器サイト上での挑発的な事件を通じて、自身の技術的な能力と意図を実証しようとしていると見ています。彼らは、ミサイルの発射を停止させたり、起動させたりする能力を持つことを示すことで、核保有国を威嚇しようとしていると考えています。これは、大規模な核紛争が彼らの地球上での計画を妨害する可能性があるため、部分的には人類に対する利他的な行為であると同時に、自己奉仕的な行為であるとも示唆しています。

政府の対応に関して、ヘイスティングス氏は、事件に関与した人々が「空軍特別捜査局（OSI）」のエージェントによって尋問され、守秘義務契約書に署名させられ、厳重な罰則が規定されていると述べています。これが、多くの証人が数十年間沈黙を守ってきた理由です。ヘイスティングス氏自身も、自身の調査を公表し始めて以来、電話の盗聴やメールの問題など、低レベルの嫌がらせを経験しており、自身の活動が政府の注目を集めていると認識しています。

最終的に、ヘイスティングス氏は、公衆がこの事実を知るべきだという強い使命感を抱いており、米国政府がUFOが核兵器を停止させたり起動させたりするような劇的な事柄について、何十年も国民を闇に置く権利はないと強く主張しています。彼にとって、自身の個人的なアブダクション体験は、彼の研究の核となる部分と不可分な関係にあり、地球外または異次元の存在が人類の核の時代に積極的に介入しているという包括的なシナリオの一部を形成しています。

AI

これらのソースが ロバート・ヘイスティングスの個人的な体験 (アブダクション) について何を言おうとしているのかを議論してください。

提供された情報に基づくと、ロバート・ヘイスティングス氏の個人的なアブダクション体験、特に具体的なアブダクションの記憶は、彼が数十年にわたり調査してきたUFOと核兵器に関する著名な事件のより大きな文脈において、極めて重要な意味を持っています。彼の体験は、彼の研究の動機、現象の性質、そしてUFOを操縦する存在の意図に関する彼の結論に、個人的な次元を加えています。

ヘイスティングス氏の具体的なアブダクションの記憶とその文脈は以下の通りです。

幼少期の記憶と初期の気づき​

  • ヘイスティングス氏は、1966年に『ルック・マガジン』でベティとバーニー・ヒルのアブダクションの話を読むまで、誘拐体験が一般的な話題であるとは知りませんでした。
  • しかし、それよりも2年前に、彼は幼少期のアブダクションであった可能性のある「フラッシュバック」を経験していたと述べています。彼はこれを「鮮明な記憶」と表現し、後にそれらが「おそらく子供時代のアブダクション」であったと考えるようになりました。

1988年のアルバカーキでのキャンプ体験​

  • 彼の意識的な記憶によれば、幼少期以降の次に何か「起こらなかった」のは1988年8月まででした。
  • アルバカーキ近くの山でのキャンプ中、彼を含むキャンパーたちは、叫び声で目を覚ましました。
  • 彼が目撃したのは、**「音もなく二つのストロボライトの間を動いて遠ざかる、ライトの消えた暗い物体」**でした。
  • ヘイスティングス氏は、当時の「精神状態」からそれを「何でもない」と片付けたと言いますが、これは**「誘導された状態」**であったと考えています。
  • しかし、その直後に枕に血がついていることに気づきました。
  • その後、他のキャンパーから連絡があり、そのうちの一人がキャンプ以来毎晩悪夢を見ていることを知らされました。その悪夢では、ヘイスティングス氏と連絡してきた女性、そして彼女の8歳の娘が、キャンプ場に置かれた光る物体に向かって一列に歩いているのが描かれていました。
  • この出来事から2週間以内に、彼は自身が「ターゲット」になり得るとは想像もしていなかったにもかかわらず、「アブダクションを経験している可能性に直面せざるを得なくなった」と述べています。
  • この後、次の20年間でさらに6、7回の「アブダクション」としか形容できない経験があったと報告しています。

1995年のピッツバーグでのホテル体験​

  • 1995年初頭、彼はピッツバーグのホテルに滞在中、夜中に突然目を覚ましました。
  • 彼は心の中でメッセージを受け取りました。それは「説明するのが非常に難しいが、想像ではなく現実的」なものであり、メッセージは**「私たちはあなたのためにここにいる。あなたは以前私たちに会ったことがある」**というものでした。
  • このメッセージへの反応として、彼は恐怖を感じながら**「彼らがここにいる！」と大声で叫びました**。
  • その直後、彼は文字通りベッドから浮き上がり、高い天井に向かって上昇しました。彼はこの時、夢を見ているわけでも、幻覚を見ているわけでも、睡眠麻痺を経験しているわけでもなく、周囲の物理的な環境が見えていたと明言しています。
  • この浮上は「おそらく5、6秒」続き、その後彼は意識を失いました。
  • 次に目覚めたのは数時間後で、太陽の光が窓から差し込んでおり、彼はベッドの上に斜めに横たわっていました。彼はこのことから、天井を「通り抜けて」連れ去られたと推測しており、アブダクションの文献では物体が壁や窓を通り抜ける報告がよく見られると述べています。
  • この体験の後、ホテルで停電があったことが判明しました。彼が消防士と話したところ、彼のホテルとその隣のホテルだけが停電しており、同じ電力網にある通りの向かい側のレストランは問題なかったことが確認されました。ヘイスティングス氏は、UFOの目撃と停電の関連性は、世界中で多くの事例で見られる現象であると指摘しています。

遭遇した存在とコミュニケーション​

  • ヘイスティングス氏は、彼が遭遇した存在を、一般的に「グレイ」と呼ばれる非人類型の存在と特徴づけています。彼らが会ったのは身長約137cm（4フィート半）、大きな頭部、大きな黒い目をしていました。
  • 彼は彼らと**「本物のテレパシーによるコミュニケーションがあったように思える」と確信しており、これは主に彼らがヘイスティングス氏にこれから何が起こるか、何をされるかを伝える一方的なコミュニケーション**だったと述べています。

より大きな文脈におけるアブダクション体験の意味​

ヘイスティングス氏は、これらの個人的な体験が彼の研究と密接に関連していると考えています。

  • 彼は、なぜ自分がこれほど調査に駆り立てられ、公衆に情報を伝えたいという欲求を抱いてきたのか、未だに説明できないと述べています。彼は、自身の研究が自身の発案によるものなのか、あるいはUFOを操縦する存在によって無意識のうちに促されたものなのか、という疑問を抱いています。
  • 彼の主要な情報源である167人の軍退役軍人のうち、7人がアブダクション体験を報告しています。これには、彼の共著者であるボブ・ジェイコブス氏や、マルムストロム空軍基地でミサイルの停止を経験したロバート・サラス氏も含まれています。このような共有された経験は、現象が偶然やランダムな出来事ではなく、「あるレベルで人類と相互作用するための体系的な努力の一部」であることを示唆していると述べています。
  • ヘイスティングス氏は、核ミサイルを停止させる存在と、彼自身が遭遇した存在が同一である可能性が高いと考えています。
  • 彼は、アブダクション現象が「現実的で物理的であり、全体像の一部である」と考えており、「ミサイル事件や核関連の事件とアブダクション事件にはベン図の重なりがある」と述べています。

ヘイスティングス氏は、自身の個人的なアブダクション体験を公表することで、一部の聴衆を失う可能性があることを認識していますが、それが「現実で進行中」の出来事であり、自身の核兵器とUFOに関する研究の重要な側面であると考えています。彼の体験は、地球外または異次元の存在が人類の核の時代に積極的に介入しているという包括的なシナリオを補強するものです。

注記

ロバート・ヘイスティングスの個人的な体験 (アブダクション) のより大きな文脈において、これらのソースが ボブ・ジェイコブスの類似体験 について何を言おうとしているのかを議論してください。

ロバート・ヘイスティングス氏の個人的なアブダクション体験というより大きな文脈において、ボブ・ジェイコブス氏の類似体験は、彼らのUFOと核兵器に関する長年の研究に個人的な側面を加え、この現象の性質と背後にある知性に関する彼らの結論を強化する上で極めて重要です。

ボブ・ジェイコブス氏は、ロバート・ヘイスティングス氏の共著者であり、彼らの共著『Confession, Our Hidden Alien Encounters Revealed（告白、私たちの隠されたエイリアンとの遭遇が明らかに）』の執筆者です。ヘイスティングス氏がUFOと核兵器に関する古典的な著書を出版した後、彼らは共同でこの本を執筆しました。ジェイコブス氏は、ヘイスティングス氏が主要な情報源と見なしている167人の軍退役軍人のうちの1人です。

ジェイコブス氏のUFO関連の公的な経験は、1964年のビッグ・サーUFO事件として知られています。

  • 当時、ジェイコブス氏は空軍に所属し、カリフォルニアのヴァンデンバーグ空軍基地に所属する望遠カメラチームを率いていました。
  • 彼の任務はミサイル発射を撮影することでした。
  • 彼と彼のチームは、太平洋上を飛行していたダミー弾頭の周囲を旋回するUFOを誤ってフィルムに捉えました。
  • フィルムには、UFOから弾頭に向かって向けられた4つの閃光が記録されており、その結果、弾頭は回転し始め、太平洋に落下しました。
  • 元AATIP（先進航空宇宙脅威識別プログラム）責任者のルー・エリゾンド氏は、このフィルムを見たことを公に認めており、ジェイコブス氏が報告した内容、すなわちUFOがダミー核弾頭を飛行中に撃墜したことを確認しています。

ジェイコブス氏の個人的なアブダクション体験については、ヘイスティングス氏との間で以下のような経緯がありました。

  • ヘイスティングス氏は1986年にボブ・ジェイコブス氏と電話で知り合い、長年にわたり彼が関わったビッグ・サー事件について複数回詳細なインタビューを行っていました。
  • 2012年5月、ヘイスティングス氏が以前インタビューした退役軍人数名を撮影するために、ジェイコブス氏がブラッドリー大学のメディアスタジオを貸し出しました。
  • 最終日の最後に、ヘイスティングス氏はジェイコブス氏に、これまで誰にも話したことのない自身のアブダクション体験について打ち明けました。
  • ヘイスティングス氏の驚いたことに、ジェイコブス氏の返答は**「私も経験している」**というものでした。
  • ジェイコブス氏は、非人類の存在との対面での遭遇を含む、自身が経験した数々の出来事を詳しく説明しました。

この啓示は、両者の間の現象理解を深めました。

  • ヘイスティングス氏が主要な情報源と見なす167人の退役軍人のうち、7人がアブダクション体験を報告しており、ボブ・ジェイコブス氏もその1人です。ロバート・サラス氏も、核ミサイル停止事件に関わった人物でありながら、後にアブダクション体験を公にしています。
  • 2018年、ジェイコブス氏はヘイスティングス氏に、彼らが「この現実のすべてについて公衆に伝えようとするなら、私たちの誘拐体験について公に話すべきだ」と提案し、その結果、共著『Confession』が執筆されました。彼らは、何が起こったのかを可能な限り正確に記述しようとしました。

より大きな文脈において、ジェイコブス氏の体験は以下の重要な意味を持ちます。

  • ヘイスティングス氏は、核ミサイルを停止させた存在と、自身が遭遇した存在が同一である可能性が高いと推測しており、ジェイコブス氏の経験もこの考えを補強します。
  • ジェイコブス氏のような、核兵器に直接関与した人物がアブダクションを経験しているという事実は、これらの出来事が「偶発的またはランダムな出来事ではなく、あるレベルで人類と相互作用するための体系的な努力の一部である」ことを強く示唆しています。
  • ヘイスティングス氏は、アブダクション現象が「現実的で物理的であり、全体像の一部である」と考えており、「ミサイル事件や核関連の事件とアブダクション事件にはベン図の重なりがある」と述べています。ジェイコブス氏のビッグ・サーでのUFOによるミサイル「撃墜」経験と、その後の個人的なアブダクション体験は、この重なりを明確に示しています。

ジェイコブス氏とヘイスティングス氏が共に公にアブダクション体験を語ることで、彼らはUFO現象の軍事的側面だけでなく、より個人的で介入的な側面も強調し、これが地球外または異次元の存在による人類の核時代への積極的な介入という彼らの包括的なシナリオの不可欠な部分であると主張しています。

文字起こし

（以下は文字起こしです。ゲストの話者は Robert Hastings で、聞き手は Jeffrey MIshlove です。）

Thinking Allowed. Conversations on the leading edge of knowledge and discovery with psychologist Jeffrey Mishlove. Hello and welcome. I'm Jeffrey Mishlove. Our topic today is UFOs and nuclear weapons. My guest is Robert Hastings, author of the classic book UFOs and Nukes, Extraordinary Encounters at Nuclear Weapons Sites, originally published in 2008, second edition published in 2017. It is a landmark book for anybody interested in UFOs. Subsequently, Robert Hastings co-authored a book with his colleague, Bob Jacobs, called Confession, Our Hidden Alien Encounters Revealed. Robert Hastings is in Colorado. Now, I'll switch over to the internet video. Welcome, Robert. It is a pleasure to be with you today. (0:02:39)

Thank you for having me. You've been intensely looking at a very narrow but very important issue for many decades now, the relationship between unidentified aerial objects or aerial phenomena, whatever label is currently popular, and nuclear weapons of all things. It's extraordinary when you consider that in our lifetime, humanity now has the capability for the first time of literally destroying itself. (0:03:20)

We have never in human history had such power. And at the same time, it seems as if we're being confronted by a mystery that defies science. I would agree with all of that. I sort of fell into this field or this particular area of interest as a teenager. My father was career Air Force. And in 1967, he and our family were at Malmstrom Air Force Base, Montana, which was then and is to this day a Minuteman nuclear missile base. (0:03:57)

I was a junior in high school. But three nights a week after high school, I worked at the Base Air Traffic Control Tower as a janitor. And over the course of many months, I made the acquaintance of a man named Bob Grasser, who was an FAA supervisor, who in the course of his work breaks in the break room would answer my many questions about radar theory and so forth. (0:04:23)

He was very gracious. And so we had something of a minimal but real relationship. And one night I was walking through where he worked called RAPCON, Radar Approach Control. And he just, as I passed his station and was emptying his trash can, he motioned me over. And I can't remember after all these years, the exact words, but he basically pointed out five unknown targets, as they're known, and said something to the effect that I thought they were UFOs. That's what I was led to believe, I thought. (0:05:03)

And I think I got excited and began peppering him with questions. And his demeanor kind of was taken aback. His whole body language was, uh-oh. So he asked me to come and clean the RAPCON center later. And so I cleaned the rest of the facility, the Air Traffic Control Tower, and then came back at the end of my shift and tried to re-approach him on this. And he clearly didn't want to talk about it. (0:05:28)

But my father worked at a facility on Malmstrom called the SAGE building, S-A-G-E, all caps, which was the NORAD, North American Aerospace Defense Command Center for radar. And long story short, when I told him what happened at the tower that night, unbeknownst to me, he made inquires at work and a few days later said they were tracking those targets at RAPCON, or excuse me, at SAGE. And he said they were considered to be bonafide UFOs. And the rumor was that they were maneuvering near nuclear missile sites. (0:06:06)

So that series of improbable circumstances is what kicked off my whole research career. (0:06:07)

And I gather that over the years you have interviewed well over a hundred firsthand witnesses to similar events. My total now that I consider sources, credible sources, is 167 military veterans, primarily Air Force, but a few Army and Navy guys. I've also interviewed civilian technicians who worked at the nuclear labs Sandia and Los Alamos, and they've all provided information that has led me to conclude that indeed nuclear weapons in this country in particular are of interest to whoever are flying what we call UFOs. And spent nearly four decades, over four decades actually interviewing those persons. (0:06:58)

I'm retired now more or less, but the body of data that I have and have presented in my book I think speaks for itself. I understand that it's not a situation strictly limited to the United States. It's been reported, for example, that in the Soviet Union back then there was a case that has received publicity in which UFOs actually triggered a launch sequence on nuclear missiles. (0:07:27)

That's correct. I have focused primarily on the United States, almost exclusively in fact. But journalist George Knapp in 1993 or 4, somewhere in that neighborhood, did go to Russia and met with a number of former Soviet Army personnel to discuss the subject of UFOs in the Soviet Union and the military's knowledge. And there was a colonel, whose name is escaping me, who showed him documents, actually helped him smuggle documents out of Russia, is what it comes down to. (0:08:03)

And one of the documents related to an incident in Soviet Ukraine in October of 1982, where a large disc-shaped object hovered at low altitude above this intermediate range ballistic missile base. Those missiles would have been targeted on Western Europe, not the United States. But in any case, my understanding is that ground troops there fired an anti-aircraft missile at this object. And whether or not that precipitated what happened next, according to the document, suddenly the missiles, the nuclear missiles that the launch officers had control of, suddenly went into countdown mode. They were preparing to launch to all appearances. (0:08:49)

And for about 15 seconds, this was a terrifying situation. These individuals down in the launch capsule didn't know if World War III was about to begin. If these missiles had been launched and headed toward Western Europe, it could indeed have been the beginning of a massive nuclear conflict. In any case, according to the document that George Knapp smuggled back to the States, after 15 seconds, this anomaly ceased. Everything returned to normal. (0:09:16)

In the past decade or so, journalists in Russia have interviewed persons who were actually involved in that incident. A number of former military personnel, Soviet Army personnel. And they've confirmed everything that appeared in the document. They've said, you know, they were utterly terrified. And it did involve, all of that did occur when this huge, mysterious disc-shaped object hovered above the missile base. And there's a very similar case, I understand, that took place at the Binot Air Force Base in North Dakota, I believe, where the launch sequence, again, was triggered by apparent UFO activity. (0:09:59)

That's correct. In 2007, I interviewed a former Air Force, I believe he was retired, Air Force missile launch officer named Captain David Schur. The last name is spelled S-C-H-U-U-R. And I tape record my interviews with the veterans. (0:10:17)

And so what appears in my book is the verbatim testimony that he gave me during this interview. What he said was he was at a place called Echo Flight. It was a group of 10 Minuteman nuclear missiles designated Echo. He was in the underground launch capsule when suddenly he got a call from his security guard, one of them at ground level, saying that this fully luminous disc-shaped object was maneuvering above one of the missile sites. (0:10:47)

And no sooner had he gotten that message down on his launch console in the capsule, that missile's light lit up what's called launch in progress light. And to all intents and purposes, it appeared that missile was launching. Captain Schur flipped what's called an inhibit switch and stopped that progression to countdown. No sooner had he done that, however, he said that the guard was apprising him of ongoing events at ground level. (0:11:17)

And various guards out in the field among his flight of 10 missiles were reporting the object moving from missile to missile. And so he couldn't remember the exact designations of the missiles, but let's say E6, Echo 6. When the guard said it's now above Echo 6, suddenly on his console, Echo 6 went into launch in progress mode. And that apparently went on. He thinks that seven or eight of his missiles were impacted in that manner. (0:11:45)

And then finally everything returned to normal. Now there's something called the primary alert system, which is a communication system among all the capsules at Minot. 15 capsules at that time, controlling 150 missiles. And he was hearing, as all this was going on, that this object, this luminous aerial object, had proceeded to virtually every flight, these 15 flights. And he could not recall in 2007, when he gave the interview, whether other people had launch in progress indicators. (0:12:17)

But he knows that their guards were reporting the missile, or the UFO rather, in the vicinity of their missiles too. So, extremely dramatic incident, probably the most dramatic I've heard about. And when did this occur? He believes it was 1966, perhaps 67. And again, he gave the interview in 2007, so that was the best he could do. I tried to prompt him as to whether he could relate it to other events that had gone on in his life, to try to pin down the time frame, but he said he couldn't. Was this the same event that got the attention of Project Blue Book and Dr. Hynek around the time it originally occurred? (0:12:56)

You're talking about in August of 1966, Dr. Hynek did release, actually, a How It Escaped classification, I can't imagine. But he wrote, Dr. Hynek, who of course was Blue Book's scientific advisor, in one of the issues in December of 1966 of the Saturday Evening Post magazine, he wrote an extensive article about UFO activity at Minot Air Force Base, and even cited one of these field reports about the object hovering above this group of missiles. (0:13:28)

Now, I can't remember off the top of my head what the flight that was involved, or the time of day. (0:13:36)

And I vaguely recall that that incident that Hynek reported on was a daylight incident, but I could be mistaken. I do know Captain Shor told me what he was involved in occurred at night. There's another former launch officer who was at Minot during the same timeframe. His name's Larry Manross, former captain, and he has confirmed that the same thing happened in his capsule. (0:14:04)

But because neither Shor nor Manross could remember the exact date, we couldn't really correlate whether that was the same event or two different events. Considering that you've interviewed now 160 people, I'm going to assume that most of them are reporting similar incidents. So, this type of phenomenon seems to be quite prevalent. Captain Robert Salas, who was at Malmstrom Air Force Base the same time that my dad was, Captain Robert Salas, he's been public very vociferously for, I don't know, 25 years. (0:14:42)

He's talked about what happened to him. In his case, and I've determined through my research, it was the evening of March 24th, 1967. He suddenly was in the same situation. He's in the launch capsule. His commander, a man named, I think he was a captain at the time, Frederick Mywald, was taking his rest break. So, Salas was alone at the console, and suddenly he got a call from one of his guards, probably what's called the flight security controller, the head security person, saying that, sir, there's multiple strange objects zipping around the sky and performing very odd maneuvers. (0:15:23)

And Salas didn't know what to make of that, you know, and he even recalls being sort of skeptical, saying, are you, you mean UFOs? And in any event, he didn't view it as an immediate threat, and he told the guard to call back if anything else happened. Well, according to Salas, five minutes later, the same gentleman called back and screamed into the phone, it's right above the front gate at what's called the launch control facility. (0:15:51)

And he said, the guard said that all the guards were armed and had their weapons, brandished their weapons, and were approaching this object as it hovered over the gate. And, you know, Salas said, I thought we were under attack. I had no idea, you know, this was a Soviet secret weapon, you know, could not make sense of what I was being told. But he didn't have time to really contemplate it much, because at that moment, his 10 missiles began dropping offline, going inactive, they could not have been launched. (0:16:22)

So primarily, you know, it's essentially the exact opposite of what Captain Shore told me. Salas' missiles were deactivated as opposed to activated. So Salas screamed for Fred Mywald, Captain Mywald, to wake up and assist him. And so they had to deal with that. They did get a report from the field of a bright object hovering over one of the missile silos, which are scattered around the countryside. (0:16:53)

They're controlled by the Central Launch Control Facility. But some miles away, the reports were this bright object was hovering over one of the actual missile silos. (0:17:03)

Now, Salas kept silent. He was debriefed, as was Mywald, and was told this was secret. It was national security not to discuss it with anyone, even each other. And he kept his silence until, I think, 1994 or five. So very dramatic things have been going on at America's nuclear missile sites. Well, of the people you interviewed, how many of them have reported or what percentage of them have reported similar kinds of incidents? (0:17:34)

I don't know that I could quantify them in terms of a percentage, but multiple reports of that nature occurring from the early 60s through 2010 and at various bases at the time. Even prior to Malmstrom and Minot in the mid-60s, a couple of years earlier at Walker Air Force Base in Roswell, New Mexico, believe it or not, there was an Atlas missile base, and I've interviewed six individuals who were launch officers down there, and they independently described to me similar incidents where these luminous objects hovered directly above their missile sites. (0:18:15)

Now, this would have been the 63-64 timeframe. To my knowledge, to their knowledge rather, they did not ever hear about or know directly about any interruptions of the missile's functionality in any manner. But the guards were on multiple occasions reporting these objects hovering over the missiles. This went on, you know, if one reads my book, UFOs and Nukes, you'll see decade after decade similar reports from security personnel guarding the missiles or missile maintenance personnel who had to bring up the missiles that were knocked offline or the actual launch officers. (0:18:53)

So virtually every nuclear missile base from the early 60s on, and again, I stopped researching in 2010, but it just occurred again and again and again all over the country at these missile bases. Well, it certainly suggests that there's an intelligence behind these objects and that it is purposefully looking at our nuclear weapons systems. That's correct. (0:19:27)

And the persons who were, you know, eyewitnesses, the security personnel who were at ground level, not in the underground launch capsule, but the people who were up at ground level who saw from case to case, actually saw the objects in the air. They all described them as luminous or metallic appearing, disk-shaped, sometimes spherical, performing maneuvers that no aircraft could probably do even in 2025, let alone in the 1960s. And when I would ask their opinion during interviews, you know, so what do you think was that? (0:19:55)

You know, what was that? Virtually all of them said, you know, couldn't have been from Earth. It was technology vastly beyond anything we had at the time. And in my opinion, that's still the case today. So I think we do have a third party who has not only expressed interest, but tampered with weapons here in America and again in Russia. I would not be surprised if every nuclear power on Earth has had this problem, and it's just not come to light yet. (0:20:22)

But, you know, and the level of sophistication, the technology involved clearly indicated orders of magnitude beyond human technology. (0:20:31)

So what are the, I mean, you know, what are the inferences? In my opinion, we're dealing with either ETs or interdimensionals or something not quite human. The interesting thing to me, Robert, is that, but for your efforts, we might not know about this at all, because of government secrecy. And it's understandable why governments would want to keep events like this secret. But I find it fascinating that in the last four years or so, you've come out and indicated that in addition to the intense research that you've done over many decades, that you've also had some type of contact yourself with non-human intelligence. (0:21:20)

That's my assessment. And, you know, I wish to God it had never happened. I have no idea how it all works. I had an odd experience as a teenager that seemed to be a lucid memory, a very vivid memory of perhaps a childhood abduction experience. But this was prior to alien abductions being a common topic or even a known topic. (0:21:53)

I had never really heard about it until I read about the Betty and Barney Hill story in Look Magazine in 1966. I distinctly remember reading that and find it fascinating. But two years prior to that, I had a series of what I consider to be flashbacks of what probably was a childhood abduction. But then, to my conscious recollection, nothing occurred until August of 1988. I lived in Albuquerque. I went on a camping trip with some people. (0:22:18)

And it's almost hard to describe even after all these years, but we were camping in the mountains near Albuquerque. One of the campers awoke us all screaming at the top of her voice, what are those lights? What are those lights? And some of us kind of sleepily stumbled out of the tent. There were multiple tents. And all I saw was an unlit, a dark object in between two strobe lights moving away in the sky. No noise was detectable. (0:22:48)

And because of my mental state at the time, and I think this was an induced state, I just blew it off. I just went, you know, that's nothing. Well, clearly it was something, but something was telling me in my own mind that it was nothing to worry about. However, shortly thereafter, I woke up with blood on my pillow. And shortly after that, one of the other campers called me up and said, you need to come over this weekend and talk to me about what happened this past weekend. (0:23:18)

She said one of the other campers was having repetitive nightmares every night since the camping trip. In the nightmare, the woman who was calling me on the phone and I and her eight-year-old daughter, in these nightmares this other woman kept having, we were seen walking single file toward a lit glowing object on the ground in the campsite. And there's lots of other details that are quite lengthy to get into. (0:23:47)

But within two weeks, I suddenly had this very bizarre realization that even though I had spent years and years investigating the military aspects of the UFO phenomenon, I was aware of the abduction accounts, but I never in a million years thought I would be a target, so to speak. (0:24:09)

But I suddenly had to confront the possibility. And for whatever reason, over the next 20 years, I had six or seven other experiences that I can only characterize as abductions. So, again, I don't know how it all works, which came first. You know, was I already on someone's radar as a child and maybe even subliminally influenced to do my research the way I, you know, I was obsessed with doing that. (0:24:41)

I couldn't really explain why I needed to investigate it. And more importantly, or equally importantly, present it to the public. In 1981, I went on the college lecture circuit and gave over 500 lectures at colleges and universities between 1981 and 2016, I believe, 17. Now, so, you know, I'm still trying to sort it out at the age of 75. Was I influenced to do what I did? Was my research my own idea? I don't have the answers, but I do consider myself an experiencer. (0:25:19)

It's complicated my research tremendously. A lot of people just can't grapple with the idea of alien abductions. And so I'm sure some of the people who would listen to me seriously, take me seriously, when I talk about the military cases, as soon as I talk about being an abductee, I lose them. And I'm sure that some number of people have walked away from what I have to say because of that fact. (0:25:46)

But it's real. It's ongoing. It's over now, seemingly, but it was ongoing for decades. In your view, the nuts and bolts physical craft that we're seeing hovering over nuclear missile sites and the abductions are related. These are not totally independent events. I think that's correct. And I suspect, I can't prove, of course, and I don't even know, but I think the entities that have been shutting down the missiles are the same entities that I've encountered. (0:26:20)

Now, I have conscious memories from this handful of experiences that I've had. I've also undergone time regression hypnosis to try to pry loose further memories to try to understand what took place. But that aside, I have conscious memories of encountering during this handful of incidents over the years, what we typically now call grays, non-human intelligences that are the ones that I've met are about four and a half feet tall, large, bald, baldness heads and big black eyes. (0:26:56)

And I can tell you whether it's, you know, take it or leave it, but I have had what seemed to be genuine telepathic communication with them. One-way communication, primarily, as far as I can remember, they're telling me things. So, it's crazy. I understand it. It sounds, you know, quite beyond the pale. It's not part of the current paradigm that humans are considered everyday reality. But if you look at the literature on the abduction phenomenon, you're going to find lots of credible, level-headed people all over the world reporting the same kinds of things that I am. (0:27:35)

So, in my view, it's real, it's physical, it's going on and it's part of the overall picture. (0:27:40)

Well, these telepathic communications, were there any messages there that were intended for you to share with other people? Not that I recall. They were basically instructions as to what was about to happen and what they were going to do with me. In previous podcasts, I've described one incident in particular that sort of brings together several elements of these encounters. In early 1995, it was one of the winter months, but I don't know the exact even month. (0:28:17)

I was in a hotel room in Pittsburgh. I had given a lecture the previous day at a school in western Pennsylvania. I was staying in this hotel overnight and planning to fly out the next day to come back home in New Mexico, where I lived at the time. And sometime during the dark hours, I suddenly awoke with a start and got one of these messages in my mind. And if one has never had one of these, it's kind of hard to describe. It's very hard to describe what it's like, but it's clear it's not your imagination. It's real. (0:28:51)

And what I heard in my head was, we are here for you. You have met us before. And in response to that, because I had had prior experiences, I gasped out loud, they're here. And I was terrified. And no sooner had I said that, I literally, literally levitated off the bed. I was airborne. My body was prone, but I was heading up toward the ceiling, this very high ceiling. (0:29:18)

Now, in any experience that I've had with these entities prior to that night and following that night, I have no memory, zero memory of levitating. But that night, I did. I was awake. I was not dreaming. I was not hallucinating. I was not experiencing sleep paralysis. In the few moments that I was awake before that all happened, I looked around the darkened room. I could see a kitchenette. I could see a small round table with four chairs and my winter coat draped over one of them. I was looking at physical features in my environment. So, I was not dreaming. And suddenly, I was airborne and heading up to the ceiling. (0:29:58)

And that lasted perhaps five or six seconds. And then, apparently, I was rendered unconscious, because the next moment, sunlight was flooding through the windows. It was hours later. And I was just laying on the bed, diagonally across the bed, on top of the covers, just trying to process it all and going, you know, oh, my God. And so, the inference, of course, is that I was taken through the ceiling. And if one looks at the literature on the abduction phenomenon, people all over the world are reporting that these entities take you through walls, through closed windows. Seemingly, I went through the ceiling. And how they do that is anyone's guess. (0:30:43)

Dr. Rudy Shield of Harvard has speculated that it's a quantum phenomenon. Somehow, they do have the ability to move physical objects through other physical objects. Who knows how it was done, but seemingly, I was moved through the ceiling. (0:31:01)

But after I awoke the following morning, you know, and I'm laying there just shocked and trying to process it all, I finally got up to go to the bathroom. I flipped the light switch in the bathroom. No response. There had been a power failure in the hotel overnight. Now, many of your viewers are aware probably that in case of many, many sightings of UFOs worldwide over decades, power blackouts are often associated with the presence of these objects for whatever reason. (0:31:34)

So, I finally got it together to go outside. I was getting hungry. I went to the parking lot. There was a fire engine in the parking lot, and the fireman was leaning against it smoking a cigarette. And I walked up to him and said, you know, is there a fire in the hotel? I didn't hear an alarm. And he was real puzzled. His voice was very puzzled. And he's waving his cigarette around as he's talking to me. (0:31:59)

And he said, nah, and he pointed toward my hotel. And he said, that hotel and the one next to it had a power failure overnight. And then he turned around and pointed across the street and said, all those restaurants on the other side of the street are on the same grid, and they're just fine. So, we're trying to figure out why these two hotels had this power failure. Well, I was rolling my eyes by that point. You know, I was pretty sure I knew why there was a power failure, but I wasn't going to obviously tell this guy anything. (0:32:26)

So, you know, that is one of the more remarkable events that has happened to me in the course of this unfolding situation. Bob Jacobs, who is your co-author, a person who had a similar interest as you have about UFOs and nuclear weapons, who also describes himself as having had similar abduction type experiences. Correct. I introduced myself by phone with Bob in 1986. Over the years, I interviewed him at length multiple times about the incident he was involved in. (0:33:13)

It's called the Big Sur UFO incident. Long story, but in 1964, he was in the Air Force. He headed up, I should say, a telescopic camera team in California affiliated with Vandenberg Air Force Base. And his job was to photograph missile launches. (0:33:39)

And as many of your viewers will probably know, he and his team inadvertently captured a UFO on film, circling this dummy warhead that was flying out over the Pacific. And on the film, there were four flashes of light directed from the UFO to the warhead, whereupon it began tumbling and fell into the Pacific Ocean. Now, as an aside here, in the last two years, Lew Elizondo, former head of AATIP, has said publicly on multiple interviews that he, while with AATIP, saw that film. He was given a copy of my book by Dr. Hal Puthoff in 2008, and apparently learned about Big Sur from reading my book. (0:34:12)

And in any case, he said that he did ask access to the Big Sur film, presumably from CIA, because that's who confiscated it in 1964. And he, as of two years ago, is now on record as saying he saw the film. He said it shows exactly what Dr. Bob Jacobs said it showed, a UFO, in effect, shooting down a dummy nuclear warhead in flight. (0:34:37)

Now, again, I met Bob in 86, and I knew him for all these years. In 2012, he graciously offered his media studio at Bradley University to allow me to film on video, on camera, a number of the veterans that I'd interviewed years earlier. (0:34:58)

And so I was with him in May of 2012, for I think a two, maybe three day period. And we were just doing these interviews. At the end of the last day, I took the veterans that we interviewed back to the airport, got them on their planes to go back home, went back to the university, went into Bob's office, sat down, closed the door, actually sat down and said, you know, I've known you for many years, I've got to tell you something I've never told you. (0:35:26)

And I told him about my abduction experiences. Much to my amazement, Bob's response was, I've had them too. And he described a number of incidents that he had seemingly involving face to face encounters with non human entities. Actually, of the 167 veterans that I consider my primary sources, seven of them have reported having abduction experiences, Bob being one of them. So that was in 2012. We talked about it, of course, on and off over the years. In 2018, he said to me, neither of us are getting any younger. (0:36:06)

If we're going to be true to ourselves and try to tell the public about the reality of all of this, we really should go public and talk about our abduction experiences. So we wrote this book, Confession. And, you know, it's, we don't have, God knows, we don't have the answers as to what it's all about. But we just try as accurately as possible to describe what we recall having happened to us. (0:36:32)

What would you say is your best speculation at this point regarding the overall situation? In effect, take shortcuts through the universe to get here, who knows. But I think we, based on the collective abduction reports over the years, several different species seem to be involved in these abductions. It's not one group of entities. So, in my view, we have multiple races, obviously advanced to humanity in terms of technology, in terms of mental abilities, the ability to engage in telepathic communication. And I think the fact that they've probably been here for a long, long time, perhaps thousands of years. (0:37:39)

But it is a matter of record that, statistically, after World War II, when nuclear weapons were invented and used, there was an uptick in sightings worldwide of UFO activity. I think it's no coincidence that that's the case. And I do think that the nuclear weapons aspect of all of this is integral to what's going on. It would seem to me, just based on the discussion that we've had so far, that they are deliberately demonstrating that they have the power to stop launches, or the power to cause launches, or the power to shoot these objects down, or the power to hover right over our Air Force bases and we can do nothing about it, and that they want us to know that. (0:38:32)

All of the above. That's my view. I think that these provocative incidents are essentially demonstrations of their technical prowess, and I think, by inference, their intentions. I think they're trying to scare the hell out of the nuclear powers. (0:38:51)

When the missiles were temporarily activated at Minot in North Dakota and in the Soviet Union, I don't think they were attempting to start World War III. They either shut down the unauthorized launch sequence themselves in Russia, or they knew that the launch officers in the U.S. at Minot Air Force Base could shut down what they had put into... had initiated the launch sequence. (0:39:17)

So, I think they're just trying to make a point, you know, they're wagging a finger at us. But I've also said, and I've told my lecture audiences when I was speaking around the country over the decades, if they do have a long-term presence here, if they have bases, for example, under the ocean, if they have projects and plans that involve the earthly realm, a massive nuclear conflict would disrupt what they've got going on, in addition to whatever detrimental consequences that could be. (0:39:47)

Detrimental effects it would have, catastrophic effects it would have on human civilization. So, perhaps what they're doing is partially altruistic toward the human race, but probably self-serving as well in that regard. What about your own situation? Do you feel that they may have in any way prompted you to take such a passionate interest in this topic? As I said in this book I wrote with Bob Jacobs, because of this childhood, I didn't go into great detail about it, but this incident that I had as a child, and memories of it later in my childhood, I'm pretty sure that they have been a part of my life for most of my life. (0:40:31)

And who knows why I didn't have any sense of their presence after that childhood era, until I was 38 in 1988. Why the gap? Who knows? If they interacted with me in that interval, I have no memory of it. But, as I said in the book, because these incidents were ongoing, and because I really could not explain, I can't still to this day explain why I have been so driven, not only to research this, to investigate it, but I've had, not so much now because I'm not well and I don't do it anymore, but for decades I had the need to communicate this to the public. (0:41:12)

And I'm an introvert by nature. Speaking in front of lecture audiences was just something that was very difficult, but I felt it had to be done. There weren't too many people who had the information I had, and I felt it incumbent upon me to talk publicly about what I had learned from these military veterans. So, essentially, almost without exaggeration, my whole life for decades has revolved around this. And so, perhaps naturally, I have wondered over the years, is this my own idea? You know, was this my own game plan? Or was I really being subliminally, subconsciously prompted by these entities that I am quite clear I've had contact with? Were they in effect pushing me, nudging me down the road? (0:42:00)

I have no idea, but I don't think that's an unreasonable thought, or at least something to speculate about. So, you know, I don't think at this late in the game I'm going to have any answers to that. But yeah, I've given that serious thought. (0:42:15)

Seven of the 160 individuals that you've interviewed also reported this type of contact or abduction experience. It certainly suggests that it's not just an accidental or random event that's taking place, that it's part of a systematic effort to interact with humanity at some level. I think that's correct. And, you know, I can't quantify this in terms of the general population, but even among the 167 veterans that I've interviewed, seven may not seem like a significant number, but you've got seven people who had experiences, you know, they were either charged with operating or guarding nuclear weapons, and at other points in their lives, they had face-to-face alien abduction experiences. (0:43:09)

Some of your viewers may not know this. Bob Salas, who was involved in this missile shutdown at Malmstrom in March of 67, he kept his secret. I knew about it because we were friends. I knew about it for many years. But finally, in 2013, he went public and said that in 1985, he clearly had an abduction experience. And in my book, I have a chapter called Veteran Voices, where I describe some of the veterans who've talked to me about their apparent abduction experiences, go on the record and talk about what happened to them. (0:43:46)

So, again, most people know, you know, the great majority of people know about what Bob has talked about at Malmstrom Air Force Base, but virtually no one knows what happened at his home in California three decades later, two decades later. Let me cite one other individual who I consider utterly credible. (0:44:24)

A man named Mario Woods introduced himself to me in 2017. In 1977, he was a security policeman at Ellsworth Air Force Base, and he guarded what was called November Flight, a group of 10 missiles designated November. And long story short, there was alarms at one of the missiles one night in November. He can't remember what day in November. He remembers it was around Thanksgiving. He's at this launch control facility with the other security policemen, and suddenly there's alarms going off because this one missile was clearly having anomalies. Something had tripped the wires, so to speak, and there was an unauthorized presence at one of these missile sites. (0:44:53)

So Mario Woods and his partner raced out there, you know, gathered their weapons and rushed out there. And as they approached this missile site, I forget the designation, I want to say November 5. In any case, he saw, they both saw suddenly this huge spherical-shaped object. He said it was probably the size of a Walmart building hovering just a few feet above the ground above this missile silo. (0:45:21)

No sooner had that happened, suddenly it was as if all of the air was sucked out of the truck they were in. They suddenly were suffocating. They could not breathe. And no sooner had that happened, he saw out of his window small figures approaching the truck. And the next thing he knew, it was four hours later and that they were at an entirely different location. They had no memory of themselves and their trucks being transported, but apparently they were transported about five miles away. (0:45:54)

And in 2017, I arranged to have some regression hypnosis on Mario. And if one looks at the video, I've never seen anybody as terrified in my life. (0:46:07)

He clearly was in the moment reliving that encounter with these small entities. He was so scared, so terrified, he was trying to climb off the bed and hide while he was being regressed under hypnosis. And so he did remember encounters with non-human entities. And again, you know, someone whose job was to guard nuclear missiles, and yet he's having that kind of encounter as well. So on occasion, they do overlap. The missile cases or the nuclear cases and the abduction cases, there is a Venn diagram overlap sometimes. (0:46:47)

We seem to be in an era in which some form of disclosure is taking place. At one time, the government flatly denied that anything of any real scientific interest was occurring. Now we hear the possibility that maybe something is taking place, but they don't know what. I imagine that when events like this take place at a nuclear weapons facility, that the government has a process for debriefing the people involved and that the government is well aware of what has taken place. (0:47:25)

They're obviously aware, and virtually without exception, the people that I've interviewed who've had experiences out at the missile sites or other nuclear weapons related facilities have described being debriefed by what are called OSI agents, the Air Force Office of Special Investigations. And that goes on base after base, decade after decade. Those are the individuals that do the debriefing. In almost every case where they are debriefed, they're required to sign written non-disclosure statements stipulating severe penalties, legal penalties, and financial fines if they discuss what they've just described to the agents. (0:48:08)

And hence, you know, these people wait 20 and 30 years to talk to me or go public on their own as Bob Salas did and Bob Jacobs. They're concerned. Well, Jacobs wasn't interviewed, wasn't debriefed by OSI, but virtually all the other people who were that I've interviewed said, you know, they were so frightened at what essentially were threats about keeping your mouth shut that they waited decades to talk about this. (0:48:36)

So that does seem to be the pattern. I'm sure it's ongoing. I could mention this. People have asked me over the years, well, when you started researching or speaking publicly about your own work, were you threatened at all? Well, what happened to me was my first series of lectures was in the fall of 1981. I had, I believe, 16 dates at various colleges and universities around the upper Midwest. And at various schools in the audience were military veterans. (0:49:09)

They had read in the local newspaper that I was going to be speaking about all of this, and I showed up to listen to what I had to say. And at many of those schools, someone would come up to me and say, I'm a veteran. I was at such and such a base. This is what I did. And I know what you're talking about because the same thing happened to me or something similar. (0:49:27)

When that happened, I would ask all these individuals if they would be willing to sit for a formal interview at some point when I got off the road. Some said yes, some said no. But in February of 1982, I began a series of follow-up calls with, I think it was seven or eight of these individuals. (0:49:50)

And I would talk to them over the phone and, with their permission, record what they were telling me. After each one of those calls, I would hang up the phone, thank them for speaking with me, hang up the phone. Within a minute or two, I would get another call, pick up the phone, and no one was saying anything. All I heard was heavy breathing. And after about 30 seconds or a minute, they would hang up. (0:50:15)

And so the first time that happened, I went, okay, I'm on someone's radar. And I got frightened, frankly. I didn't know what was going to happen next. I was clearly pushing the envelope by discussing publicly classified information. Someone was not happy about that. I had gotten some national publicity through the United Press International Wire Service, which hundreds of newspapers around the country picked up this story about me talking about UFOs and a government cover-up. And apparently, I came to someone's attention. (0:50:51)

And so I sort of paused before I made the second call to the veteran. But I felt I was either going to do this or I wasn't. And I sort of just found the courage somewhere to keep at it, talk to these other individuals. But after every one of these calls, I had the same effect, same consequence where someone would call up. It was usually within five minutes. I think I recall once or twice, it was about an hour later. I got the same heavy breathing, no one talking into the phone call. So that's the kind of problems I've dealt with. (0:51:29)

Now, I know that I have an FBI file on me. In 2011, another researcher, he filed an FOI request on my behalf with the FBI to see if they had files on me. The letter that he got and subsequently forwarded to me, which I have, the FBI admitted that their master index showed that they did have files on me. And they claim when they look for them, they were missing. They further said there were other files at their headquarters in Washington, but they were undergoing transferring written files to digital files and they couldn't immediately provide them to me. (0:52:08)

So I know the FBI has files on me. I made similar inquiries with CIA and the National Security Agency. In those two cases I got, we can neither confirm nor deny responses. So I know my work has come to someone's attention and they're probably, even now that I'm not really researching much anymore, they're probably still keeping an eye on me. In fact, Jeff, as you may recall, we seem to have some communications issue earlier this year when you asked me to confirm this date to speak with you and I sent you a response. You did not get that response. (0:52:50)

Now, over the years, I have found when I'm speaking with sources, that is ex-military person, other researchers or journalists, I think what you're doing essentially is journalistic in this sense. I have these email problems. I have telephone problems. (0:53:07)

When I talk to those three categories of persons, more often than not, or at least as often as not, the phone calls get interrupted in midstream and I have to call them back and they call me back. And then there's ongoing email issues. So somebody's, you know, it's low level harassment. I think I know who's behind it, but I can't prove it. And, you know, I just view it. It comes with the territory. I don't lose any sleep over it. (0:53:35)

It doesn't stop you, which is important. But let me ask you one final question, Robert. I know you've had health problems in recent years and I understand you stopped doing the college lecture circuit, but you did decide, I gather, to continue your public activities. And I wonder if there's anything behind that motive at this stage in your life. I think I mentioned earlier, the last case that I investigated occurred in October 2010 at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Wyoming. There was a large scale incident where five of these missile alert facilities, they're now called, the Air Force changed their name. They're no longer launch control facilities. They're now missile alert facilities. (0:54:24)

Anyway, in October, October 23rd of 2010, the Atlantic website had a dramatic story based on leaked information that five of these MAF's missile alert facilities suddenly could not communicate with F.E. Warren Air Force Base, meaning that if, God forbid, there had been an order to launch their missiles at that time, they could not have gotten their order through normal channels. It was subsequently learned that there was a backup airborne system that would have allowed them to launch their missiles if ordered to do so. (0:55:18)

But it was a major incident and a snafu. And as soon as I heard about that, I went, this probably is UFO related. And I spoke with an individual, I'm not going to identify him, who had contacts at F.E. Warren Air Force Base. And on my behalf, he approached these persons, and they were actually, these two missile maintenance technicians were out in the field addressing this communication issue. And both of them reported seeing what was described as a huge cigar-shaped object flying in the sky above the missile field when these technical issues were cropping up. So, as I suspected, there seemed to be a UFO link with all of that. (0:55:47)

But to do all of that, and to do it properly, requires a sort of a mental clarity that I don't think I have anymore, and a physical energy that I don't have anymore. So, after 2010, I more or less said, I'm a spectator from here on out. So, that's how I would describe myself at this point. But you feel comfortable sharing the earlier work that you did for so many years? (0:56:14)

Absolutely. Again, I have this driving sense that the public needs to know about this. This is real. I think the U.S. government does not have the right to keep us in the dark decade after decade about something as dramatic as UFOs shutting down or activating our nuclear weapons. (0:56:33)

And, you know, I don't expect to see in my lifetime the big announcement from some president saying, you know, all of this is true. They are from somewhere else. They've been here a long time. They've been interacting with us. And we've kept this all secret for years, for your own good, American public. And I don't think I'm going to live to see that. (0:56:53)

But there's been so many amazing things that have happened in the last five, six, seven years. ATIP coming out, Lou Elizondo in particular, he's confirmed in at least two interviews that I'm aware of in podcasts. He's confirmed that my work was right on. He said I gave information. I had information that ATIP used that they didn't have. And he's on camera saying all that. (0:57:20)

So I feel that, you know, belatedly, however later, however long it took to occur, people are finally starting to pay attention to the nuclear weapons link. Robert, from my point of view, you are a hero. You're doing an enormous public service. I don't know the price you may have paid for making that choice in your life. But I want to express on behalf of the New Thinking Allowed audience, certainly a lot of gratitude for what you've done and for the fact that in spite of being an abductee yourself, you've managed to maintain a level head. (0:57:59)

And you're very articulate about what you've experienced. I think that you are basically a credit to humanity. So thank you so much for being with me. Well, I have to respond to that. I would just say I was a stubborn guy who needed some answers. And whether or not there was an unseen guidance in what I did, again, that's up in the air. But, you know, when we get right down to it, the heroes, the people that deserve our praise and our thanks are the veterans who had the courage to speak to me and to come out. (0:58:31)

Even after some of them, many of them were told, you know, if you talk about this, you're going to be in deep trouble. Many of them waited decades, but they did finally come clean. And they're the ones that deserve the hero label, in my opinion. I can't disagree with that at all. You've been really the point of the spear, but there are a lot of people behind you carrying the spear as well. (0:58:57)

I understand. Thank you. Thank you so much for being with me. And for those of you watching or listening, thank you for being with us, because you are the reason that we are here.