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Jim Semivan + Peter Levenda のインタビューでの発言 ⇒ 一部の謎を解く

· 114 min read
gh_20250606_interview.jpg

前置き​

最近のインタビューから。Jim Semivan の発言に注目。

1:58:13 から末尾までの発言を AI(NotebookLM plus)で整理させた。その上で重要な事柄を AI に敷衍させた。ついでに Peter Levenda の NHI 検知体験の謎を解く。

音声対話(by AI)​

https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/d4006abe-8bc2-4a4f-9275-388b3dede85e/audio

概要

地球外生命体のパノプティコン（全展望監視システム）

ポッドキャストのこの抜粋では、元CIA高官のジム・セミヴァンと作家のピーター・レヴェンダが、非人間的知能（NHI）が我々の間に存在するという概念と、彼ら自身の体験について語っています。

レヴェンダは、かつてティモシー・グッドに言われた、空港などの混雑した場所で座って意識的に「ここに誰かいますか？」というシグナルを送り、自分を見て微笑む人を見つけることでNHIを識別できるという方法を試した際に経験した奇妙な出来事を詳述しています。

彼はまた、シンガポールで再び遭遇した、自宅前で車に乗っていた謎の人物たちによる説明のつかない経験についても語っています。セミヴァンとレヴェンダは、これらの現象は政府の監視活動では説明できず、より広範で理解不能な現実の一部である可能性が高いと考えており、このテーマに対する多角的なアプローチと、人類がそのような真実を処理する能力について議論しています。

情報源 : Youtube 動画(2:55:32)​

The Conundrum of The Phenomenon Sekret Machines Vol. 3 [WAR] with Jim Semivan & Peter Levenda

要旨

要約：人智を超える知能と我々に関するブリーフィング文書

  1. はじめに

本ブリーフィング文書は、ポッドキャストインタビュー「人智を超える知能と我々」の文字起こしを基に、ゲストである元CIA高官 Jim Semivan 氏と作家 Peter Levenda 氏、そして聞き手の James Iandoli 氏による議論の主要テーマと重要な洞察をレビューするものである。議論は、非人間知能（NHI）の存在、政府の取り組み、歴史的・文化的な視点、そしてこの現象が人類にもたらす課題に焦点を当てている。

  1. 主要テーマ
  • NHIの存在と多様性: NHIが「我々の間を歩いている」可能性が議論され、その識別方法や具体的な遭遇事例が提示される。また、政府関係者から伝えられたとされる「6つの既知のNHI種族」についても言及があるが、その情報は表面的なものであることが示唆される。
  • 不可解な遭遇と同期性: Peter Levenda氏の経験した、監視のような出来事やシンガポールでの奇妙な再会は、従来の諜報活動では説明できない不可解な要素を含んでいる。特に、彼の頭の中から引き出されたような「DeVilbiss」という名前や、シンガポールでの偶然の再会は、現象が単なる物理的な存在に留まらない可能性を示唆する。Jim Semivan氏は、このような出来事を「同期性」として捉え、現象への関与がこのような出来事を引き起こしやすくする可能性を指摘する。
  • 政府の対応と課題: 政府のUAP（未確認航空現象）への取り組みは、「はっきり言って現実であり、全てを説明できるわけではない」という公式見解に留まっている。これは、現象が持つ複雑性、特に時間や意識との関連、そしてそれを一般に開示することの困難さに起因していると考えられる。政府は、現象に関する詳細なデータが不足しており、開示による社会的な混乱や敵対勢力への情報漏洩のリスクを懸念している。
  • 歴史的・文化的な視点: 現象は現代特有のものではなく、有史以来、人類の経験の一部であったことが強調される。過去の文化や宗教では、神々、天使、悪魔、そしてジンのような非人間的存在との交流や交配の概念が存在していた。現代における現象の見え方（例：機械）は、当時の支配的な技術や概念に影響されている可能性があると論じられる。
  • 現象の多次元性と理解の限界: 現象は単なる物理的な存在ではなく、意識や精神的な要素、時間といった概念と複雑に絡み合っている可能性が示唆される。我々の持つ科学的な枠組みや現実認識では、現象の全体像を捉えることが難しい。従来の宗教的・神秘的なシステムは、このような経験を理解し、それに適応するための「精神的な技術」を提供してきた可能性がある。
  • 開示の現状と課題: 現状では、完全な開示は時期尚早であると考えられている。これは、現象の性質が極めて理解し難く、社会的な混乱を引き起こす可能性があるためである。政府内でも、UAPを悪魔的な存在と捉える見方があり、統一的な見解を形成することが困難である。個人的なレベルでは、現象の調査やコンタクトを試みることは危険を伴う可能性がある。
  • To The Stars Academy of Arts & Science (TTSA): Jim Semivan氏は、TTSAが政府のフロント組織であるという批判に対して反論する。TTSAは、UAP現象の調査と理解を促進するための民間の取り組みであり、そのメンバーはそれぞれの分野で経験豊富な人々が集まっている。彼らの目的は、現象を軍事的脅威としてのみ捉えるのではなく、より多角的かつ統合的なアプローチで理解することにある。
  1. 重要なアイデアと事実
  • 非人間知能は我々の間を歩いている可能性があり、特定の場所や状況で認識できるかもしれないという仮説。（1:58:52）
  • Peter Levenda氏の経験した不可解な出来事は、従来の諜報活動の範疇を超えており、現象の異常性を示唆する。（1:59:19 - 2:03:53） 特に、彼の頭の中から引き出されたような「DeVilbiss」という名前の登場は、現象が人間の思考にアクセスできる可能性を提起している。（2:02:57 - 2:03:35）
  • 現象は時間を超えた予知能力を持っている可能性があり、これはニム事件でのUAPの行動から推測される。（2:13:54 - 2:14:33）
  • 非人間知能の「制御メカニズム」は、単に物理的な存在だけでなく、個人に対しても影響を及ぼす可能性があるという疑問。（2:06:33 - 2:07:04）
  • 現象は有史以来存在しており、過去の文化や宗教において非人間的な存在や交流の概念は普遍的であった。（2:18:07 - 2:21:15）
  • 現代において現象が「機械」として認識されるのは、現代社会の技術的なプリズムを通して見ているためであり、現象自体は我々の認識に合わせて姿を変えている可能性がある。（2:20:52 - 2:21:42）
  • 報告されているUAPの内部には、我々が期待するような「制御システム」が見られない場合があり、これは現象が物理的な機械ではないことを示唆している可能性がある。（2:23:40 - 2:24:04）
  • 現象とのコミュニケーションは、従来の科学的な方法では困難であり、宗教的・神秘的な「精神的な技術」が必要となる可能性がある。（2:25:01 - 2:26:39）
  • 政府はUAPに関する詳細なデータを十分に持っておらず、開示には社会的な混乱やリスクが伴うため、段階的な教育が必要であると考えられている。（2:53:18 - 2:53:39）
  • UAP現象は、単なる軍事、情報、科学の問題ではなく、より多角的なアプローチ、つまり学際的な研究と国際的な協力が必要である。（2:44:45 - 2:45:27）
  • 現象に対する恐怖や無関心は、社会を分断させ、もし異星人による「侵略」が起こるとすれば、現在の状況が理想的であるという皮肉。（2:47:09 - 2:47:35）
  • 現象を理解するためのメタファーとして、「パノプティコン」が提示される。これは、見られていると感じるが、誰が見ているか分からない状況を表現している。（2:48:14 - 2:48:36）
  1. 引用句
  • 「はい、彼らは私たちの間を歩いており、彼らが誰であるかを見つけるのは本当に簡単です。」（1:58:52）
  • 「全神経を集中させて深呼吸を何度かしてから、ただ合図を送るだけです。誰かここにいますか？誰かこれを受け取っていますか？いますか？そして目を開けて、誰があなたを見て微笑んでいるかを見てください。そうすれば彼らを特定できます。」（1:59:05）
  • 「これは、これが何らかの非人間知能だったのかどうかを常に疑問に思っていました。もしそうなら、彼らは身体を持っていて、車を運転していて、英語を話していました。」（2:02:28）
  • 「これがすべての鍵でした。このすべてが何らかの奇妙な悪ふざけでした。しかし、誰による悪ふざけだったのでしょうか？これは何だったのでしょうか？今日まで、私はこれを消化できません。私にとって消化できません。」（2:03:35）
  • 「また、ジャックが control mechanism に言及したとき、私はある意味で、スキナー型の取引のようなものだと思いました。それは、不規則な周期性のある行動です。ええ、ただ現れて、現れない。それは強化メカニズムです。」（2:06:33）
  • 「それは完全に異なる何かです。したがって、あなたは次のステップに進み、よし、To The Stars を単なる奇妙な諜報活動だと考えていたこれらの人々のように、それはあなたがおっしゃったように、顔を出して、これが私たちの背景だと言っているのですから、ばかばかしいです。」（2:11:23）
  • 「そして確かに、私の妻には、名前は覚えていませんが、ネイティブアメリカンの名前、つまりチェロキーの名前で、彼女の直系の子孫だった親戚がいました。」（2:13:17）
  • 「だから、このNHIが持っているこの制御メカニズムであるこの能力は、非常に複雑になります。そして、政府がそれを知っていて、どういうわけかそれを事前に知っている場合。つまり、彼らはある程度時間を制御しており、彼らはそれを知っているということです。それは本当にあなたに、あなたが本当に望まないある程度の全能を与えます。」（2:14:33）
  • 「そうですね、時間は私たちにとって存在するのとは同じではありません。そうですね、それは、私たちの頭では理解するのが難しいことです。」（2:15:53）
  • 「私たちが今見ているものは、機械です。おそらく100年後には、私たちは何か別のものを見ているでしょう。」（2:21:42）
  • 「そして、私が聞いたことすべて、そして神はそれを知っていますが、その90%はたぶんナンセンスですが、これらの機械の内部には制御システムがありません。そうですか？」（2:23:40）
  • 「そして、これはジムと私が話していた問題です。私たちはこれらの質問をし始め、振り出しに戻ります。私たちはそれで何をすべきかわかりません。この情報をテストするためのシステムがありません。これらの存在とコミュニケーションをとるためのシステムがありません、私たちが完全に神秘的で、宗教的で、オカルト的な環境でコミュニケーションをとっている場合を除いて、それはそのために構築されているように見えます。」（2:25:01）
  • 「そして、議会には、いや、悪魔から来ている、UFOは悪魔から来ている、悪魔的だ、彼らは悪魔だ、と言っている人がたくさんいます。」（2:26:46）
  • 「そして、あなたがたいていのアメリカ人に、人生で最も重要なこと、あるいは自分にとって最も重要なことを1から20、あるいは1から25のスケールでリストアップするように言えば、経済、これ、あれになると思います。UAPが上位25位に入ることはほとんどないでしょう。本当に疑問です。」（2:28:49）
  • 「そして、何千人もの他の人々のように、あなた、私、ピーター、そしてこれらの経験をした何千人もの他の人々がいます。そして私たちが得ていないのは、私たちが得るべき検証です。」（2:29:27）
  • 「ですから、私はあなたのような人々に頼っています。基本的に、それを一歩だけでなく、多くのステップ進めます。そして、インタビューや人々と話すことによって、そしてこれを世に出して、人々がそれに慣れるようにすることによって。」（2:30:15）
  • 「彼らが持っているものすべて、そして私はあなたに伝えなければならないことは、これは絶対的な真実です。私が言うことはこれです。彼らが持っているものすべては、表面的なものです。それは、政府の誰かがより詳細な情報を持っているかもしれません。ある人が私に言ったように、6つの既知のNHI種族がいます、そうですか？私はそれを検証できませんが、それは信頼できる情報源から来ました、そうですか？わかりました。」（2:36:30）
  • 「そして、これは多くの政府関係者の問題でもあります。あなたは何らかの非常に困難なことを裏付けるものが何もないときに受け入れることは非常に難しいと考える何かを言うために出て行きたくありません。」（2:38:15）
  • 「それは私の権利です、そうですか？私たちは私たちが住んでいる世界を知る必要があります。あなたは私からそれを隠すことはできません。そうですね、政府も私たちからそれを隠すことはできません。」（2:52:16）
  • 「そしてもし私たちがそれを得るなら、私は彼らがそれを発表するときに彼らが何をしているのかを知っていることを願っています。彼らが何を発表すべきかを知っていることを願っています。」（2:53:00）
  1. 結論

この議論は、UAP現象の複雑性と多面性を浮き彫りにしている。単なる航空現象や軍事的な問題ではなく、人間の意識、歴史、文化、そして現実そのものと深く関連している可能性が示唆されている。政府の開示には多くの課題があり、現状では限定的なものに留まっているが、民間の取り組みや学際的な研究の重要性が増している。現象の完全な理解には時間がかかるだろうが、過去の知見や異なる視点を統合し、よりオープンな議論を進めることが重要である。

timeline と主要関係者

詳細タイムライン​

  • 1940年代以降: UAP（未確認航空現象）現象がホットポテトとなり、どの政府機関も扱いたがらない状況が続く。
  • ソビエト連邦崩壊後からプーチン政権までの一時期: ロシアでKGBファイルや軍事ファイルが公開され、UAP現象に関する情報（特にロシア軍が現象との原始的なコミュニケーションを試みていたこと）が明らかになる。
  • 1991年頃 (第一次湾岸戦争開始頃): ピーター・レヴェンダがロードアイランド州の自宅にて奇妙な出来事を経験する。
    • 買い物から帰宅し、車を駐車し荷物を降ろしていると、道の向かい側に大きな黒いキャデラックが停車しており、カメラが自分に向けられていることに気づく。
    • 車に近づこうとすると、キャデラックは走り去る。
    • それを追跡しようと自分の車に戻ると、別の車（古びたステーションワゴン）が来て進路を塞がれる。
    • その車から2人の若い女性が出てきて、「スーズー（DeVilbiss）」という人物を知っているか尋ねられる。
    • ピーターが知らないと答えると、女性たちは微笑んで車に戻り、走り去る。
    • この出来事により、ピーターはキャデラックを追跡する機会を失う。
  • ロードアイランドでの出来事から数年後: ピーター・レヴェンダが東南アジアを旅行中、シンガポールのチャンギ空港で乗り継ぎをする。
    • 空港を移動していると、ロードアイランドでの出来事に出てきた女性の一人に肩を触られる。
    • 彼女はピーターに手を振る。
    • ピーターは彼女を追いかけようとするが、人混みの中で見失う。
  • 時期不明 (ティモシー・グードとピーター・レヴェンダが出会う前): ピーター・レヴェンダが空港でティモシー・グードから教わった「シグナルを送る」方法を試す。
    • 空港に座って「ここに誰かいるか？」というシグナルを送る。
    • すると、通りかかった誰かがピーターを見て微笑み、立ち去る。ピーターはこの方法が「効いた」と感じる。
  • 時期不明: ジム・セミヴァンがCIAの契約社員として勤務中、UAPプログラムに直接関連するものではないが、関連性の高い非常に機密性の高い件について7時間にわたり2人からブリーフィングを受ける。
    • このブリーフィングの内容は非常に衝撃的で、ジムは3ヶ月間精神的に影響を受ける。
    • ジムが遭遇した存在について説明すると、そのうちの一人が「誰だか正確にわかる」と述べ、「ベンディ」と呼ばれる存在であり、過去にモーリシャスとスペイン、そしてジムの家でしか確認されていないと語る。
    • このブリーフィングでは、既知のNHIは6種いるとも言及されるが、詳細な情報は不足していることが示される。
  • 時期不明: ピーター・レヴェンダがFBIの関係者と思われる人物にロードアイランドでの出来事について話す。その人物は、2台の車と4人の人間を自分一人に使うのは、諜報活動としてはリソースの無駄であり、あまりに不自然であると述べる。
  • To The Stars Academy of Arts & Science (TTSA) 設立時期: TTSAは多くの人々に「政府の詐欺」「CIAの作戦」などと批判される。これは元CIA高官であるジム・セミヴァン、元国防総省高官のルー・エリゾンドやクリス・メロンなどが関わっていたため。しかし、これは真実ではなく、彼らは個人的な興味から集まったにすぎないとジムは述べる。
  • ジム・セミヴァンとピーター・レヴェンダがポッドキャストに出演: ジェームズ・イアンドリを聞き手として、UAP現象、NHI、個人的な経験、そしてピーターの著書「War」について語る。
    • NHIが私たちの中に紛れている可能性について議論される。
    • ピーターがロードアイランドとシンガポールでの奇妙な経験を詳細に語る。
    • これらの経験が人間の諜報活動なのか、それともNHIに関連するのかについて議論される。DeVilbissという名前がピーターの記憶から引き出された可能性が示唆される。
    • NHIが時間や現実を操作する可能性、予測能力を持つ可能性について議論される（例：ニミッツ事件でのCAP地点での出現）。
    • 過去の宗教や文化における非人間的存在の記述（例：イスラムのジン）と現代のUAP現象との関連性が議論される。
    • UAP現象が時代とともに見せ方を変えている可能性（かつての飛行船、現代の機械、オーブなど）が示唆される。
    • 墜落したと噂されるUFOに制御システムが見当たらないことや、アブダクション経験者が語るUFO内部の描写から、それらが我々の考える「機械」ではない可能性が示唆される。
    • この現象を理解するための既存のシステム（科学、宗教、諜報活動）の限界について議論される。
    • 特定の宗教的または神秘的な実践が、この種の存在との接触を可能にする手段である可能性が示唆されるが、危険性も伴うとされる。
    • 政府や議会内部に、UAP現象を悪魔的と見なす見方があることに言及される。
    • 政府のUAP現象への対応について、国民の関心の低さ、経験者への検証不足、情報の公開の難しさなどが語られる。AAROの役割にも触れられる。
    • 完全なディスクロージャーがすぐには起こらないだろうという見通しが示される。ディスクロージャーが起こるとしても、世界中が対応できる形で段階的に行う必要があると議論される。
    • ピーターの著書「War」のテーマ（異なる国の政府の現象への対応、軍事的脅威としての側面、全体論的アプローチの必要性、過去の出来事や犠牲者）について語られる。
    • TTSAの今後の活動（「Monsters of California」映画、アニメシリーズ、Legendary Picturesとの「Secret Machines」プロジェクト）について言及される。

登場人物​

  • ピーター・レヴェンダ (Peter Levenda): 作家。UAP現象やオカルト、歴史に関する多数の著作がある。自身がハイブリッドであると冗談めかして述べる。ロードアイランドとシンガポールで奇妙な出来事を経験し、それが非人間的存在に関連する可能性を考察している。著書「War」で、異なる国々の政府の現象への対応や全体論的な理解の必要性を論じる。
  • ジム・セミヴァン (Jim Semivan): 元CIA高官。UAP現象や超常現象に深く関心を持つ。CIA時代に衝撃的なブリーフィングを受けた経験を持つ。To The Stars Academy of Arts & Science (TTSA) の共同設立者の一人であり、世間からの批判に対し、TTSAは政府のフロントではないと反論する。現象の理解には学際的なアプローチが必要であり、情報の開示には忍耐が必要だと考えている。
  • ジェームズ・イアンドリ (James Iandoli): ポッドキャストの聞き手。ジム・セミヴァンとピーター・レヴェンダにUAP現象や関連するテーマについてインタビューを行う。
  • ティモシー・グード (Timothy Goode): （名前のみ登場）ピーター・レヴェンダの知人。非人間的存在は私たちの中に紛れており、空港などで「シグナルを送る」ことで彼らを特定できる方法をピーターに教えた人物。
  • スーズー (DeVilbiss): （名前のみ登場）ロードアイランドでの出来事で、ピーターが女性たちから知っているか尋ねられた人物の名前。後にピーターがかつて提案書を送ったオハイオの企業名であり、女性たちがピーターの記憶からその名前を引き出した可能性が示唆される。
  • ジャック・ヴァレ (Jacques Vallée): （名前のみ登場）著名なUAP研究者、作家。ジム・セミヴァンが、シンクロニシティや「制御メカニズム」について語る際に言及する。
  • ニミッツ (Nimitz): （名前のみ登場）2004年にUAPが米海軍の空母打撃群に遭遇した有名な事件。現象が戦闘空中哨戒（CAP）地点に出現したことに言及され、NHIの予測能力の例として挙げられる。
  • ルー・エリゾンド (Lou Elizondo): （名前のみ登場）元国防総省高官。AATIPプログラムに関与し、UAP現象の情報公開を進める人物。TTSAに関わっていたことや、ディスクロージャーを進めている人物として言及される。
  • クリス・メロン (Chris Mellon): （名前のみ登場）元国防総省高官、元上院・下院情報特別委員会のスタッフ。UAP現象の情報公開を進める人物。TTSAに関わっていたことや、ディスクロージャーを進めている人物として言及される。
  • スティーブ・ジャスティス (Steve Justice): （名前のみ登場）Skunk Worksの元プロジェクト開発担当者。TTSAの設立に関わった人物として言及される。
  • トム・デロング (Tom Delonge): （名前のみ登場）To The Stars Academy of Arts & Science (TTSA) の設立者。映画「Monsters of California」の監督として言及される。
  • シシー (SSCI) とヒプシー (HPSCI): （組織名として登場）上院情報特別委員会 (Senate Select Committee on Intelligence) と下院情報常設特別委員会 (House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence)。クリス・メロンが過去に勤務していたことに言及される。
  • パット・ニクソン (Pat Nixon): （名前のみ登場）元米国大統領夫人。ロードアイランドでの出来事の女性たちが着ていた古風な服装を説明する際に、その服装がパット・ニクソンが嘲笑された時の服装に似ていると例えとして挙げられる。
  • ジム・セミヴァンの妻: （名前は出ない）臨床心理士。夫のジムがCIAでのブリーフィング後に精神的に影響を受けた際に、その状態（1000ヤード凝視など）を認識する。また、彼女のインディアン（チェロキー族）とアフリカ系アメリカ人の血筋が、UAP現象に関心を持つ人々から彼女が主要な焦点だったのではないかという推測につながったことに言及される。
  • ジム・セミヴァンの妻の母親: （名前は出ない）故人。ジョージア州の丘で育ち、「星の人々」について常に語っていた人物。これはUAP現象が世代を超えて続いている可能性の例として挙げられる。
  • ハロルド・パットホフ (Hal Puthoff): （名前のみ登場）UAP研究者。ディスクロージャーがすぐに起こらないだろうという議論の中で、彼が行ったシンクタンクの結果や、情報の段階的公開の必要性について言及される。
  • ジョン・マック (John Mack): （名前のみ登場）ハーバード大学の精神科医、アブダクション研究者。彼の著書で、UAP現象を「ミステリー」として認識し、それ以上の追及をすぐに求めるべきではないと述べたことに言及される。
  • ガーイ・バニスター (Guy Bannister)、モーリー島事件 (Maury Island)、フレッド・クリスマン (Fred Crisman): （名前のみ登場）ピーター・レヴェンダの著書「War」で取り上げられる、UAP現象に関連する過去の奇怪な事件や人物。
  • モーリス・ジェサップ (Morris Jessup): （名前のみ登場）UAP研究者、「フィラデルフィア計画」で知られる。ピーター・レヴェンダの著書「War」で、現象を研究したために嘲笑された人物として言及される。
  • ジェームズ・マクドナルド (James McDonald): （名前のみ登場）大気物理学者、UAP研究者。議会でUAPの現実性について証言したが嘲笑された人物。ピーター・レヴェンダの著書「War」の「Collateral Damage」の章で取り上げられる人物の一人。
  • リチャード・ドティ (Richard Doty)、ポール・ベノウィッツ (Paul Benowitz): （名前のみ登場）UAP関連の事件や情報操作に関わる人物。「Collateral Damage」の章で、AFOSI（空軍特別捜査局）がポール・ベノウィッツを標的にした行為が許されるのかという問題提起の中で言及される。
  • ブレンダン・フレイザー (Brendan Fraser)、ジョシュ・ギャッド (Josh Gad): （名前のみ登場）To The Starsの今後のアニメシリーズで声優を務める予定の俳優。
  • レジェンダリー・ピクチャーズ (Legendary Pictures): （企業名として登場）To The Starsの「Secret Machines」プロジェクトで提携している映画制作会社。

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「ニミッツ (Nimitz): （名前のみ登場）2004年にUAPが米海軍の空母打撃群に遭遇した有名な事件。現象が戦闘空中哨戒（CAP）地点に出現したことに言及され、NHIの予測能力の例として挙げられる。

という言及部分をできるだけ詳細に説明して。

AI

ソースの中で、ニミッツ事件はピーター・レヴェンダ氏によって以前に話題にされたものとして言及されています。この事件は、2004年に米海軍の空母打撃群がUAP（未確認航空現象）に遭遇した有名な出来事とされています。

議論の中で特に注目されているのは、UAPが「戦闘空中哨戒（Combat Air Patrol, CAP）地点」に出現したという点です。

CAP地点は、空母打撃群を防衛するためにF-18戦闘機が常に待機する場所であり、極めて機密性が高い情報であると説明されています。この場所を知っているのは、パイロットに指示を出す者、パイロット自身、そして作戦担当者のみだということです。

事件では、フレイヴァー大尉がこれらのUAPを追跡中に見失いましたが、その後、作戦担当者から彼らがどこにいるか知らされた際に驚いたとされています。なぜなら、**UAPはCAP地点に移動し、フレイヴァー大尉たちを「待っていた」**からです。

この出来事は、非人間知能 (NHI) が持つとされる予測能力の例として挙げられています。つまり、彼らは次に何が起こるか、あるいは誰がどこへ向かうかを事前に知っていたかのように行動したのではないかという見方です。これは、現象がある種の「予知」能力、あるいは時間に対して、我々が知るのとは異なる方法でアクセスする能力を持っていることを示唆する可能性があると議論されています。

もし政府がこのような予測能力を認識しているとすれば、それは彼らがある程度の時間制御能力を持っていることを意味し、それは**「全能性」とも呼べるような高度な能力**を示唆していると述べられています。このような情報の公開は、天使や悪魔が実際に存在し、地球を支配するようなものだと例えられ、発表するのが非常に困難である可能性に言及されています。

総じて、ニミッツ事件におけるUAPのCAP地点への出現は、単なる物理的な接近ではなく、NHIが人間の行動や計画を予測し、それに対応する、あるいは操作するような高度な知能や能力を持っている可能性を示す事例として、議論の中で非常に重要な要素となっています。

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「時期不明: ジム・セミヴァンがCIAの契約社員として勤務中、UAPプログラムに直接関連するものではないが、関連性の高い非常に機密性の高い件について7時間にわたり2人からブリーフィングを受ける。 このブリーフィングの内容は非常に衝撃的で、ジムは3ヶ月間精神的に影響を受ける。 ジムが遭遇した存在について説明すると、そのうちの一人が「誰だか正確にわかる」と述べ、「ベンディ」と呼ばれる存在であり、過去にモーリシャスとスペイン、そしてジムの家でしか確認されていないと語る。 このブリーフィングでは、既知のNHIは6種いるとも言及されるが、詳細な情報は不足していることが示される。

の箇所をできるだけ詳しく説明して。

AI

ご提示いただいたタイムラインの「時期不明: ジム・セミヴァンがCIAの契約社員として勤務中、UAPプログラムに直接関連するものではないが、関連性の高い非常に機密性の高い件について7時間にわたり2人からブリーフィングを受ける...」という箇所について、提供されたソースに基づき詳細を説明します。

ソースによると、ジム・セミヴァン氏は、CIAの契約社員として勤務していた時期に、2人から7時間にわたるブリーフィングを受けた経験について語っています。このブリーフィングは、UAP（未確認航空現象）プログラムそのものに直接関連するものではありませんでしたが、関連性の高い非常に機密性の高い件に関するものだったと述べています。

ブリーフィングの内容は、ジム氏が以前に読んだり、そうかもしれないと考えていたものの、疑問を持っていたような事柄を検証するものでした。

彼らは、様々な場所で行われた機密の実験とその結果についても言及しました。この情報は非常に衝撃的で、「ひどく怖気づいた」("scared the living hell out of me") と表現されており、その結果、ジム氏は約3ヶ月間、精神的に影響を受け、焦点の定まらない目つき（「千マイル先を見つめるような目」）になるなど、良い状態ではなかったと述べています。彼は、まるで「覆いが持ち上げられ」、新しい現実が少しばかり定着したかのように感じたと言います。それは、今まで読んだ本の中にあったものが、実際に真実であると知らされた経験でした。

このブリーフィングの中で、ジム氏が自身が遭遇した存在について説明した際、ブリーフィングを行った2人のうちの1人が、「誰だか正確にわかる」「ベンディ」（Bendy）わずか3回だけであると告げられました。ジム氏はこれを聞いて非常に驚き、「一体どうしてそれを知っているんだ？」("Yeah. The fuck would he know that?") と反応しています。

また、ブリーフィングに関連して、「既知のNHI（非人間知能）は6種いる」「表面的な」「概略的な」ものに過ぎず、詳細な情報は不足していたとのことです。例えば、「トールホワイト、レプティリアン、リトルグレイ、ビッググレイ、コバルト」といった名前を挙げられたとしても、それ以上の詳細を知っているわけではない、と情報源自身も認めていたと語られています。ジム氏は、このような裏付けのない情報を公にすることは、状況を混乱させるだけだと考えているようです。

総じて、このタイムラインの記述は、ジム・セミヴァン氏がCIA契約社員時代に受けた、UAP関連の機密ブリーフィングの内容、その衝撃度、そして特に**「ベンディ」と呼ばれる特定の存在に関する、その歴史上の稀な出現場所（モーリシャス、スペイン、そしてジム氏の家）を含む詳細な知識が政府内に存在し、さらに既知のNHI種別に関する限られた情報**があることを示唆するものです。

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1991年頃 (第一次湾岸戦争開始頃): ピーター・レヴェンダがロードアイランド州の自宅にて奇妙な出来事を経験する。 買い物から帰宅し、車を駐車し荷物を降ろしていると、道の向かい側に大きな黒いキャデラックが停車しており、カメラが自分に向けられていることに気づく。 車に近づこうとすると、キャデラックは走り去る。 それを追跡しようと自分の車に戻ると、別の車（古びたステーションワゴン）が来て進路を塞がれる。 その車から2人の若い女性が出てきて、「スーズー（DeVilbiss）」という人物を知っているか尋ねられる。 ピーターが知らないと答えると、女性たちは微笑んで車に戻り、走り去る。 この出来事により、ピーターはキャデラックを追跡する機会を失う。 ロードアイランドでの出来事から数年後: ピーター・レヴェンダが東南アジアを旅行中、シンガポールのチャンギ空港で乗り継ぎをする。 空港を移動していると、ロードアイランドでの出来事に出てきた女性の一人に肩を触られる。 彼女はピーターに手を振る。 ピーターは彼女を追いかけようとするが、人混みの中で見失う。

の部分について、できるだけ詳しく説明して。

AI

ご提示いただいたタイムラインにある、ピーター・レヴェンダ氏が経験した奇妙な出来事に関する記述について、提供されたソースに基づき詳細を説明します。

ソースによると、ピーター・レヴェンダ氏は、第一次湾岸戦争が始まった頃（1991年頃と言及されています）、ロードアイランド州に住んでいた際に奇妙な出来事に遭遇しました。

この出来事は、彼が買い物から自宅に戻り、車を私道に駐車して荷物を降ろし始めた時に起こりました。彼はふと顔を上げると、道の向かい側に大きな黒いキャデラックのような車が停車しているのを見ました。その地域はかなり田舎で家が点在しているような場所だったため、これは非常に珍しい光景でした。さらに、その車のフロントから大きな広角レンズのカメラがピーター氏に向けられていることに気づき、彼はひどく動揺しました 。

「一体これは何だ？」と思い、彼は荷物を置いて車に近づこうと歩き始めました。すると、キャデラックはそのまま走り去りました。ピーター氏は「こいつらを追跡して、これが一体何なのか突き止めてやろう」と考え、急いで自分の車に戻りました。しかし、その瞬間に別の車、木目調の古いステーションワゴンがやってきて、彼の車の進路を塞ぎ、彼が出発するのを妨げました。

そのステーションワゴンの両側のドアが開き、2人の小柄な女性が出てきました。彼女たちは古風な服を着ていました。後には、彼女たちは若い、おそらく20代くらいの女性で、赤毛で血色の良い頬をしており、「マンソンファミリーのメンバーのようだ」とも表現されています。パット・ニクソンがかつて嘲笑されたような、古びたウールのコートを着ていたとのことです。

彼女たちはピーター氏に、「スーズー」（ソースでは「DeVilbiss」と表記）という人物がどこに住んでいるかを知っているか尋ねました。この名前は後に重要になると言及されています。ピーター氏は苛立ちながら、「知らない、全く分からない」と答えました。すると、彼女たちはにっこりと微笑んで車に戻り、走り去りました。

この一連の出来事により、ピーター氏は黒いキャデラックを追跡する機会を失ってしまいました。彼は、女性たちが彼を妨害するためにキャデラックの仲間だったことにすぐに気づかなかったと述べています。彼はただ、追跡を止められたことに腹を立てていました。

ピーター氏は長年、この出来事が一体何だったのか疑問に思っていました 。彼は、もしこれが彼を尾行する通常の諜報活動だったとしても、あまりにも多くの人員とリソースが費やされており、しかもあまりにも露骨だったため、理にかなわないと考えています。それはまるで**「メン・イン・ブラック」のシナリオ**のようでしたが、彼はUFOを目撃していませんでした。

特に、女性たちが尋ねた**「DeVilbiss」という名前は奇妙でしたが、ピーター氏にとっては聞き覚えがありました。彼は後で調べたところ、ロードアイランドには当時そのような人物は全く住んでいなかったことが分かりました。しかし、その名前は彼が当時機器製造の事業をしており、の名前でした。彼は、まるで彼らが彼の頭の中からこの名前を抜き出した**かのようだと感じています。ピーター氏にとって、この出来事全体は奇妙な「でっち上げ」だったと考える一方で、「誰によるでっち上げなのか？」と疑問に思っており、今日に至るまで「消化できない」出来事だと述べています。

このロードアイランドでの出来事から数年後、ピーター氏は東南アジアを旅行中、シンガポールのチャンギ空港で乗り継ぎをしていました。空港を移動していると、誰かに肩を触られ、振り返るとそれはロードアイランドで彼を呼び止めた女性の一人でした。彼女は彼に手を振ったとのことです。ピーター氏はひどく驚きましたが、彼女を追跡してこの出来事が一体何なのか突き止めようとしましたが、人混みの中で見失ってしまいました。

ピーター氏はこのシンガポールでの再会が、ロードアイランドでの出来事の奇妙さをさらに強固にしたと述べています。彼はこの出来事を通して、非人間知能（NHI）「共時性（シンクロニシティ）」「制御メカニズム」 が働いている可能性について考えるようになったと述べています。彼は、これらの出来事が、通常の諜報活動や人間の仕業ではあり得ない**「完全に何か別のもの」** であるという結論に至ったことを示唆しています。

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ソビエト連邦崩壊後からプーチン政権までの一時期: ロシアでKGBファイルや軍事ファイルが公開され、UAP現象に関する情報（特にロシア軍が現象との原始的なコミュニケーションを試みていたこと）が明らかになる。

の部分について、できるだけ詳しく説明して。

AI

ご提示いただいたタイムラインの記述は、ソース中のピーター・レヴェンダ氏による、著書『War』で取り上げられている各国のUAP（未確認航空現象）現象へのアプローチに関する説明に基づいています 。 特に、ソビエト連邦崩壊後の時期について、以下のような詳細が語られています。

  • 情報の公開時期: このUAP現象に関する情報は、**ソビエト連邦が崩壊してからプーチン政権が始まるまでの短い「ハネムーン期間」**に公開されたと述べられています。この期間には、KGBファイルや軍事ファイルが公開され始め、ロシアの将軍たちも現象について話し始めるようになりました

  • ロシア軍の実験: ロシアのある特定の軍事基地において、彼らはUAP現象との関わり方についてユニークな発見をしました。彼らは、**重機（戦車やハーフトラックのような大型装備）が大きく動くたびに現象が「見に来る」**ことに気づいたのです。

  • 原始的なコミュニケーション: この発見に基づき、ロシア軍は意図的に重機を動かすようになりました。そして、現象が現れると、彼らは手を使って合図を送ることを試みました。

  • 具体的には、手をある向きに上げると、現象が一列に並ぶ。

  • 別の合図をすると、現象は横に移動する。

  • このようにして、彼らは現象との**「原始的な（rudimentary）」コミュニケーション**が取れていることに気づいたとされています。

レヴェンダ氏は、この出来事から、米国とロシアが互いに戦争状態にあったレベルがある一方で、同時に現象に対しては同じように見ており、どのようにコミュニケーションが取れるかを探っていたことが分かると述べています。これは、現象が軍事問題、航空問題、科学問題だけでなく、霊的な問題としても理解されていたことの一例として挙げられています。

コメント​

以下の体験、

レヴェンダは、かつてティモシー・グッドに言われた、空港などの混雑した場所で座って意識的に「ここに誰かいますか？」というシグナルを送り、自分を見て微笑む人を見つけることでNHIを識別できるという方法を試した際に経験した奇妙な出来事を詳述しています。

は NHI（ET を含む 非人間知性体）とは無関係。ごく普通の人間にも稀におきる ESP 現象として解釈すべきもの。たとえば、

  • 誰かに見つめられている

という感覚があって振り向くと、実際に見つめられていた…といった体験の同類だと解釈できる。

つまり、

  • 空港などの混雑した場所で座って意識的に「ここに誰かいますか？」というシグナルを送り

という行為が、先で述べた「誰かを見つめた」というシグナル送信となり、その付近にいた ESP 感受性の高い「普通の人間」が

  • 無自覚でそのシグナルを受信して「自分を見て微笑む人」となった

…このように解釈できる。

なお、ESP 現象はこのような送受信モデルは比喩であって、実際は大規模情報系が創発している未解明の現象（＝共鳴認知）だと私は想定している。そしてその未解明の現象には ESP 現象だけではなく、人間の意識や LLM の知性も含まれる。

文字起こし

（以下は Podcaset インタビューの文字起こし。ゲストは Jim Semivan（元 CIA 高官） と Peter Levenda （作家）で、聞き手は James Iandoli の合計 3人。）

And, you know, we, we mentioned the hybridization thing, but what, what is, you know, what are both of you guys think about, you know, potential non-human intelligence walking among us is something that always comes up. Peter, this is right up your alley because... Because I am a hybrid. (1:58:28)

Being a hybrid yourself, right? I shouldn't say that for people listening going, oh my God, let me just a hybrid. Get them. We knew it all along. Yeah, well, this happened, you know, speaking of Timothy Goode, I mean, this is one of the things that he told me to do, right? He said, yeah, they are walking among us and it's really easy to find out who they are. (1:58:52)

And I said, do tell, but this is after like half a bottle of scotch, right? So he says, you know, all you have to do is go to a very busy place, go to like an airport terminal is the best, right? Go to a busy airport and just sit somewhere quietly, peacefully, take a few deep breaths and then just send out the signal, you know, is anybody here? Is anybody picking this up, right? Are you there? And just open your eyes and see who looks at you and smiles. This is, you're going to identify them that way. (1:59:19)

Now, this weird thing happened to me, as everybody knows, who's heard me talk about, you know, I had this thing happen to me in Rhode Island when I was living there, where this was just around the start of the first Gulf War. And I had gone shopping, I was driving a car that was driving back to the house. (1:59:41)

I parked in my driveway, I'm starting to unpack groceries. And I look up and I see there's a car across the street in this road. I mean, it's a rural area. So it's not like in the middle of a city and not even a town. It's pretty rural, it's scattered houses. (2:00:00)

And there's a long, big black, you know, limo kind of car, an old black Cadillac, you know, idling in front of my house. And there's a camera pointed at me, this wide lens. And I kind of freak out, like, what the hell is this, right? So I put down the groceries, and I start walking towards the car, because this is very unusual. And they just take off. (2:00:19)

And so I think I'm going to follow these guys figure out what this is up to. I'm getting a little weirded. I don't know what this is about. I go to my car and another car pulls up, blocks me from leaving. And it's a it's an old model station wagon with the wood paneling, you know, that I hadn't seen in years. (2:00:40)

And it blocks me from getting out. Both doors open, and two women come out little short women, dressed in like old clothing. And they're asking me if so and so, you know, if I know where so and so lives, the name is important, it comes up later. But and I'm frustrated. (2:00:57)

I say no, I don't have any idea. And they smile sweetly at me, they get back in the car, they pull out. But by that time, it's too late for me to follow the black Cadillac. Again, no imagination, right? Not understanding that this car was part of that team stopping me from following the Cadillac, I should have followed that car, I should have had the presence of mind. (2:01:21)

Instead, I was just pissed off that they stopped me from doing this. And so now I lost my opportunity to follow and find out what this is all about. Years later, I'm living in Southeast Asia. And I'm changing planes in Singapore and Changi Airport. And I'm dragging my ass to the airport. (2:01:40)

And as I'm doing so somebody touches me on my shoulder. You know, which is unusual in and of itself, I turn around to see who it is. It's one of those women from the car. You know, and she kind of waves at me. I'm staring at her like what the hell, you know, and I recognized who she was. (2:01:55)

And I said, and I started following her to see what this is all about. And naturally, she disappears in the crowd, and I can't find her. (2:02:00)

So are these non-human intelligences? Right? Was this some weird, you know, was one of Jim's people? Was it, you know, was it the feds in some way? Was this kind of an intelligence? And I'm thinking, and I talked about this with someone, they said, it's impossible. It's two cars, four people, they're not going to waste those resources on you. I mean, what do they think, right? (2:02:24)

And I said, yeah, it doesn't make sense. Plus, the cars were old. It was all the men in black scenario. It was like perfect. Except I hadn't seen a UFO, right? There was no connection. And so I wondered always if that was some kind of non-human intelligence. And if so, they had bodies, they were driving cars, and they spoke English. Yeah. And they asked me for the name they asked me was DeVilbiss. DeVilbiss is a bizarre name, but it rang a bell. (2:02:57)

And I looked up, you know, I went through all the sources. There's no DeVilbiss anywhere in Rhode Island at the time. So they were asking me for a name of somebody who didn't live in Rhode Island at all. And it triggered a memory. I said, my God, I know the name. It's a company in Ohio that I had sent a proposal to because I was in the business of equipment manufacturer at the time. (2:03:18)

And, you know, I was trying to get to see if they were interested in the business. So they picked this name out of my head, right? Just this weirdest name they could think of, I guess. Let's pick DeVilbiss. Do you know where DeVilbiss is? And that was the key. (2:03:35)

This whole thing was some kind of weird hoax. But a hoax by whom? What was this? Right? To this day, I can't digest it. It's indigestible for me. That was plus the whole Singapore thing. You know, on its own, it was weird enough, but in Singapore to reinforce it and to say, see, you know, that was weird. (2:03:53)

So when you ask me about non-human intelligence is among us, first Timothy Goode tells me, you know, try this. And I have these experiences before I met Timothy Goode. And so it worked. It worked in an airport. I tried it in an airport. I sat down, you know, I remembered that what he said to do. (2:04:10)

And I have been traveling a lot in those days. And I sat down and I tried it. And somebody was walking past and they turned. They were going towards a bar, I think, on the other side. They turned and looked at me and smiled, you know, directly at me, like in response. And then they walked away. And I said, Timothy, you were onto something. (2:04:33)

So try it, guys. Answer your own question. What's interesting about his story is the initial part of it is a classic surveillance move. I mean, it's when you're surveilling somebody, you know, you always have you have the rabbit, right? You know, the person you're surveilling, like, you know, Peter in this particular case, and then you have, you know, your lead card. (2:04:52)

Now, generally speaking, when you're surveilling, you don't ever want to be seen. But clearly, they wanted to be seen. And then they wanted to be seen in a certain way. (2:04:58)

Cadillac, big camera, it's threatening. All right, that's what he was threatened. I mean, it's essentially what it was. Somebody's taking your picture, you're threatened, particularly in big old black Cadillac, he confronts the threat, car takes off and what happens, you know, two little old ladies pull up in a nondescript, quote, unquote, you know, car, you know, station where I could get out of the car and defuse the situation or confuse them. (2:05:23)

And then, but what's really odd about this is Singapore and De Vildis. Those are elements that are almost impossible to explain. I remember Jacques in one of his books was talking about the Melchizedek incident where he was in San Francisco, and I don't know, or someplace overseas, and he was thinking about Melchizedek, right? And he gets in a cab. (2:05:55)

Here's the guy's name is Melchizedek, right? These are synchronicities that happen to you. And that we talked earlier, when you get involved in stuff like this, you become more prone to this. But why were they bothering Peter? Unless they knew, unless this control mechanism is such that it's able to control us in such a way that it sort of planted in Peter, you know, this idea, and that something, the world is amiss, right? And then Peter, and they knew Peter was going to go off and do this other stuff, right, down the road. (2:06:33)

I don't know. I don't know. I mean, you know, when Jacques mentioned control mechanism, you know, I think he meant in a certain way that, you know, it's, it's like a Skinnerian type of deal, where it's behavioral periodicity with irregularity. Well, yeah, with, you know, it just shows up, doesn't show up, and it's a reinforcement mechanism. But could it be that they do this, not only, you know, with craft, but they do it with individual people? You know, is Peter somebody they picked out when Peter was born? I don't know. (2:07:04)

You know, is there something about Peter that, you know, or me, or you, James, that make us special enough? All of us have had these, these experiences. We're all talking on a show that's international in scope, right? So who knows? I don't know. I mean, I remember when To the Stars was formed. A lot of people thought we were, quote, unquote, a scam, right? They thought we were some kind of government, you know, disclosure thing, or, or we were just, you know, the government was just trying to dissuade people from looking into this, whatever the story was, there's all kinds of stories. (2:07:49)

And I have to tell you, you know, it was, first of all, it was nonsense. None of us were, but they kept saying, look, it's a CIA guy, right? And then you got a, then you got a senior guy from the Pentagon, Lou, who was also in counterintelligence. And then he got Chris Mellon, who was, you know, US, you know, I mean, very, very high level job in intelligence and DOD. Plus he worked for Sissy and Hipsy, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence for many years. (2:08:14)

It's, it's, it's an intelligence community scam, right? They're just trying, and it's, of course, nothing of the sort. And then when we started talking to one another, all of a sudden Steve Justice shows up, you know, who was like one of the, you know, big project development for the Skunk Works. And he, I mean, he, he did some really crazy stuff there. (2:08:37)

And everybody's looking at one another. And I remember I used to sit there and look at these guys going like, shit. And then somebody would say, well, maybe Tom's a plant. And I, and I go, and then you can just run yourself in circles, you know, who's, who's, who's, everybody's looking at me thinking maybe Jim's the guy, because he was CIA. He knows how to do this. (2:08:56)

But actually, none of it is true. And the truth is that we were all interested people who happened to get together. And, and, and we distrusted one another. And there was no, there was nothing more than what we said it is. And it's what it is today. It's all it is, is what we said it is. (2:09:16)

Nothing more than that. I'm not a show for the government. Neither does Lou anymore. Obviously, Chris, everybody else, you know, we do our own thing. Peter, the same way. But why? You know what, why? I mean, I can understand why people would think that. But they don't have a very sophisticated view of what intelligence was. (2:09:32)

If I was going to start an intelligence operation to fool anybody, I sure as hell wouldn't put a former senior CIA guy or former, two former DOD guys in the middle of it, create that operation. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. You know, anyway. Well, I want to come back just briefly to something you said about the, the, the event in Rhode Island. Why would they have been interested in me anyway? Let's say it was an intelligence thing. Let's say it was a typical two car, four man operation. (2:10:06)

As I brought up to somebody who had been in, in, in the FBI, I think. And they said, it doesn't make any sense. It's just too many people, too many resources. Plus they were too obvious about it. I mean, what was the, how does that work? Right. And I, for the longest time I had to think to myself, it's got to be something in my past. (2:10:25)

You know, I had done business in China. You know, are they, were they looking at me? But it was an old black Cadillac. It was like pure men in black territory. Right. And then these two women were not old ladies. They were young. They were much younger than I was. (2:10:42)

They were like maybe in their twenties, you know, sort of redheaded kind of, you know, rosy cheek types, you know, look like Manson family members, you know, and they, and it's just like, like that, you know, and dressed in old clothing too, like old, like wool clothes, cloth coats and stuff, you know, that they used to make fun of with Pat Nixon, you know, and there, this whole thing was like totally out of, just out of context. (2:11:03)

And the thing with the big black, you know, camera pointing at me. So I wasn't up to anything, you know, in 1991, whenever that was, I was minding my own business. What was I doing? Right. So it, it, it, it, it only later with Singapore that really, you know, put the nail on it. This is something that's not, it can't be, it can't, this cannot be an intelligence. (2:11:23)

This cannot be one of our people or their people or anybody's people. This is something completely different. So then you will go to the next step and you say, okay, like these people were thinking TSA to the stars was simply, you know, some weird intelligence operation, which is like you said, ridiculous on the face of it, because you're all out there, you know, with your faces hanging out saying, this is our background. (2:11:47)

Yeah. How could that possibly be? So I was trying to think about what about this particular instance? What, what other group could have been behind it? And nothing that I, that I came up with made any sense, which is why I started to venture into the NHI men in black territory on it, because as ridiculous as that sounds, it makes more sense that it was an American intelligence, you know, thing that they were doing. (2:12:09)

It doesn't, you know, some surveillance on me that didn't make any sense. (2:12:12)

Well, I agree. And, you know, it's, it's, you know, there are people who believe, I remember my wife were, and I were being interviewed, you know, by, by some people, I won't name the people, you know, them all, James, you know, most of them too. You know, after they got wind of what happened to my wife and I, and they, they were talking, and we had gone out to dinner with a couple of them. (2:12:42)

And one of them said something, we started talking about DNA and alien DNA. And then they got very heavily into my wife's background because they didn't think I was the primary focus of what had happened. They think my wife was, and I said, why, why was that? And they said, well, they noticed in some instances, if you come from, if you have a lineage, that's indigenous to the US, my wife is mostly Scots Irish. And, but she has Cherokee Indian blood in her. (2:13:17)

She also has, I think, African American blood in her also, but it was a Cherokee Indian blood they were, they were concerned about. And sure enough, my, my wife has a relative named, I can't remember the name, but it was, it was an American Indian name or Cherokee name that was a direct, you know, line of descendant to her. (2:13:38)

And then with my wife's mother who just passed away, used to talk about it all the time, star people. And she grew up in the hills of Georgia, but she always claimed, you know, when she had family up in the stars, even she was a little girl. So was this intergenerational? Did they follow you? Did something happen to Peter or Peter's relatives? And he was part of that. (2:13:54)

And they knew, and they knew in advance what was going to happen because we see this precognition going on. And if you look at the Nimitz, Peter, you brought that up earlier, the fact that they went to the cap, the combat air patrol point, which is the point where, where the F-18s always go to defend the carrier group, right? I mean, that's highly classified. That's like top secret. (2:14:13)

The only people who know that are the guy who tells the pilots and the pilots, and then the operational guy, that's it. Well, when the Fravor was chasing these people, lost them, chasing the TIS tech, lost them. You know, the, the operations guy called them out and said, you won't believe where they are. They're all at the cap and they're hovering over the cap waiting for you. (2:14:33)

So is, is this ability that this, this control mechanism that NHI has, it gets to be so complicated. And if the government knows that and knows that in advance, somehow they know that. I mean, this means that they control time to a certain extent and that they know that they, that really gives them a degree of omnipotence, you know, that you don't really want. (2:15:10)

I don't think you would want to ever announce, you know it would be, it would be like announcing that the angels and the devils, you know, they're real and they're going to, and they're going to come down and basically run the planet for us, you know, and we're just going to be, you know, whatever, whatever they want us to be their little zoo, you know, for all intents and purposes. I don't know, but Peter's thing is fascinating. (2:15:29)

That's always a fascinating story, you know? Yeah. I mean, and again, those there's so many elements involved, like how, how is that organized or, you know, premeditated and then put into action is like you said, the, it seems that the phenomenon has foresight, you know, into time. (2:15:53)

But yes, time may not exist for them as we know it. Not the same way, right? Oh, that's see, that's what's hard to put our head around, right? If that's indeed the case, I mean, how do you, how do you, how do you come out and announce this? Because you'd have to talk about that. (2:16:19)

And most people, you know, and I include, you know, you, us three are pretty well-read people, right? But if somebody comes out and told me, you know, time doesn't really exist. Past, present, you know, and future is all now in the moment. Yeah. I mean, I understand the words, but I don't understand the concept. (2:16:39)

I don't, I just have no idea. I have no idea where to go to. Who do I call? Hal? And ask Hal? I mean, Hal will sort of say, well, conceptually, it might be like this, but he's not going to be able to give me a definitive answer. Nobody is. Because no one's experienced it. No one knows it. It's not part of our science. (2:16:53)

And it's not part of our reality. So we're just these blinkered, blame-brinker human beings who are only able to deal with so much. And, and if you throw too much reality at us, it just goes right over our heads. It scares us. I mean, look, I mean, you know, I mean, you know, go, go out in the middle of the woods some night, right? And all you see these two spooky eyes, you know, staring at you and you know, it's not an animal. They're going to run like hell because you're scared. You're scared of the unknown. (2:17:30)

Well, then someone's going to come out and they're going to tell you the unknown. And they're going to tell you not only the unknown, but this great, huge, incredible story that is absolutely fascinating and, you know, and frightening at the same time. And nobody knows what it's about, but you want to know it, right? I'm not that brave. That's what I'll say. Do you think that the phenomenon and non-human intelligence have something to do with our ancient past as well? I do. (2:18:07)

Peter could answer that better, but yeah, I do. Absolutely. At least religions talk about it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's part of secret machines, gods. I mean, that's the whole premise of that, you know, this phenomenon has been with us since recorded history, obviously probably much further than that, but at least since recorded history. So we know it's been part of our experience as human beings. (2:18:34)

We just have found it difficult to deal with. And so we've, you know, as we have a scientific revolution starting and we started to separate all of these various aspects of our experience out into different boxes, we've put them in categories. We now live in a world where nothing is really linked anymore and everything's disconnected. So you become a specialist in this area and you ignore everything else. (2:18:58)

But there was, you know, our human history until comparatively recently was... it mixed as much of material life and existence with supernatural, let's say, in Kripal's, you know, idea of a supernature. It was mixed in with everything. I mean, it was part of a you know, we're at the front lines of saying if I combine these things, these materials in the laboratory, I'm going to see God. You know, there was this combination of, you know, you're going to achieve immortality. (2:19:44)

You're going to cure all illness. You're going to have spiritual experiences. If I can duplicate the process of creation, you know, if I can stand outside creation and duplicate it, it's going to affect everything. It's going to affect my spirituality. (2:19:55)

It's going to affect my longevity, my health. It's going to change life entirely. The elements are there. The elements are in our environment. If we can do this, we can bring it all together and create this new life. And, you know, the assumption was there forever, for thousands of years, that this was all one connected, one continuum, that the gods, the angels, the demons, all of these supernatural forces were there with us. (2:20:28)

Even in Islam, in pre-Islamic Arabia, the jinn, you know, had societies. They had cultures. They had language. They had their own religion. They lived among the people. You could occasionally see them, you know, these non-human intelligences. And occasionally, they mated with human beings and created hybrid creatures. This is all part of the idea of the jinn, if you read the Islamic texts and the pre-Islamic information that we have. (2:20:52)

So this idea was already there. It's been there for a very long time. There's nothing really new about this, except what we're doing now is we're assuming these are machines. And it's because we've developed machines, right? So that's the way we look at this now, through the prism of machinery, of things that were built in a laboratory or in a factory. (2:21:15)

And, you know, that's how we are explaining this phenomenon now. And the phenomenon is behaving in that way, and it's saying, okay, we're going to be machines, right? Whereas a hundred years ago, at the turn of the century, they were sailing ships, right? Sailing across the country, you know, and saying hi and, you know, really mysterious ships with sails and anchors, right? But they were obviously not ships. They were not in water. They were sailing through the air. (2:21:42)

So that's what we expected. That's what we saw. Now we're seeing machines. Maybe in a hundred years, we'll be seeing something different, right? We'll be seeing plasma. We'll be seeing poltergeist phenomena, God knows what, but it's going to be something different, maybe. Maybe the machinery is the tease for them. They're manipulating this idea of machinery. If we're looking at the videos that have been coming out all over the place, now we're looking at orbs. (2:22:13)

We're looking at beings inside of orbs. We're looking at this jellyfish phenomenon floating around. That's like machine biology mixed, or maybe there's no machinery in that at all, right? In Secret Machines War, just to bring it back to war, there's an account of a Russian scientist who very early in his lifetime, I think as a teenager or as a young man, saw an orb at an Orthodox Church, a Russian Orthodox Church, I think in the city of Perm. And this thing appeared as an orb glowing red with a being inside of it, right? Which is eerily similar to some of the stuff that we're seeing now that's being photographed and thrown up on online, whether this stuff is AI generated or whether it's, you know, whatever it is, I don't know. But it's eerily reminiscent of these visions that this guy had a hundred years ago in Russia. You know, he saw this and it inspired him later to get very involved in space science and in physics. And he became a well-known Russian scientist. (2:23:14)

But he had this experience in a church and didn't know what to make of it. And it was this thing that was floating in front of him. (2:23:18)

And he felt terrified and enthralled at the same time by witnessing this. So we don't know, you know, what the hell we're looking at. We're looking at machines and now we're going on the assumption that these are machines. And we have crashed machines. And we're sort of happy with the fact that there are crashed vehicles. (2:23:40)

But everything that I've heard, and God knows 90% of it is probably nonsense, is that there are no control systems inside these machines. Right? They're like machines to satisfy us that they are machines. But there's no control systems. And people who've been abducted, like Whitley Strieber, and people who have been contactees that way, talk about the craft. (2:24:04)

But the inside of the craft is missing a lot of stuff that we would take for granted, you know, if this really was a machine. And I point that out in the Sacred Machines trilogy in various places. Why do we not see, you know, certain things that we would take for granted? Why is there no waste disposal system? Right? There's not even a single wastebasket anywhere on this craft. (2:24:29)

There's no place to throw anything away. It's just smooth surfaces everywhere you look. There might be music playing or something. There might be some weird sounds, but nobody's talking. The beings are not actually speaking. They're communicating, but they're not speaking. Well, if they can communicate without speaking, and they make us see things that are not there the same way, if they can control what we have going on in our brains that way, if they can have voices inside of our heads, if they could communicate that way, maybe they're making us see things that are not there, hear things that are not there, you know. (2:25:01)

So this is the problem that Jim and I've been talking about. We start asking these questions and you're back to square one. We don't know what to do with it. We don't have a system for testing this information. We don't have a system for communicating with these beings, unless we're communicating within a completely mystical, religious, occult environment, which seems to be built for that, which seems to be designed for that, which the spiritual technicians, let's call them that way from my religious studies background, spiritual technology, maybe it was designed specifically for this type of an experience. (2:25:48)

People have been trained to train their brains, to train their minds, to train the bodies to a certain extent, to be able to accommodate this experience and to learn from it. And it's just a very rare handful of people that go and try to do this, especially now. There's a lot of nonsense in the world about these kinds of technologies, let's say. (2:26:15)

But there were very real, very graduated systems, methods for attaining this type of intelligence. And there was always a kind of, like in the Masonic ceremony in the third degree, you're dead and reborn. And this kind of death and rebirth thing is part of it, is to kind of make you comfortable with the idea that there is something other than this life that you can pass through it and experience something different. (2:26:39)

And in order to experience this contact, you have to go through this kind of a process. So maybe that's a way of looking at it. (2:26:46)

But there's a lot of people, especially in Congress, who are saying, no, it's from the devil. UFOs are from the devil. It's demonic. They're demons. And read your Bible and stay away from that. So we have that tension as well in our government. So I'm blabbering again, going on and on. (2:27:08)

But I'm trying to get to the point of saying that there is something, there are systems in place that seem to have worked for other people, that maybe they would work for us, but it would be probably a little dangerous for individuals to try this. And they would have to really sign up for a program of gradually getting there and not just jumping full with all four feet into something like this, which would be dangerous, obviously. (2:27:34)

And then we get back to Jim's point, these things are happening to people without their even trying. Maybe that's the reason that you and I are here talking, Jim. We're talking because James basically forced this idea on us to get together. What Peter is saying is absolutely right, in my opinion. I, you know, when in the end, if you sit, if you just step back, you know, and you assess the situation, particularly if they say you were in government and you were in charge of the legacy program, and somebody said, well, what do we do? You know, we'd let this thing out. (2:28:15)

And then you say, well, where are the American people on this? You know, I say, well, Congress is bitching and moaning. They want to know more. But yeah, but where are the American people? That's how things get done, right? People push this stuff. So if you probably, you know, ask most American people, you know, on a scale of one to 20 or one to 25, you know, list the most important things in your life or the most important things to you, you know, it's going to be the economy, it's going to be this, that. I doubt very much where the UAP would rank in the top 25. I really doubt it. (2:28:49)

Most people don't think about it. I mean, I can't tell you how many people... we live in this little world, honest to God, we live in this little world. But most of the people, most of my friends where I live, they could care less. Well, some of them do. They like the idea, but it's not a big deal in their lives. (2:29:10)

They're fascinated by it, but only for like an hour and then their eyes glaze over and they go someplace else. And a lot of people just don't want to deal with it. It's just too much if you start talking to them and you're getting in depth. So you have this sad situation because it is sad. (2:29:27)

People like you, me, Peter, and thousands and thousands of other people who've had these experiences. And what we're not getting is the validation we should be getting. (2:29:32)

And somebody coming out and saying, yeah, what you experienced was probably real. But if there was a way to say that, the government can say that without getting into too much more trouble. I was hoping Arrow would come out, but that was... and the guy who's running it now is a great guy. He's really a nice guy. (2:29:55)

He's just has a really tough job. If there was a way to come out and say, look, and they've already done this, actually, look, the UAP are clearly real and we can't explain all of them. That's about as best as you're going to get from the government. So we rely on people like you who basically take it not only a step further, many steps further. (2:30:15)

And by interviewing and talking to people and getting this out there and making people become accustomed to it. And you take this tradition of disbelief, which we have and turn it into a tradition of belief. And we had 80 years of disbelief. And now we're just, I think, merging into this era now through people like you and Chris Mellon and Lou Elizondo and Dave and other ones, Tom, moving this forward into a tradition of belief that we actually are going to go back and recapture what we lost from what Peter was talking about from the old days, where religion was and politics and the economy were all one thing. (2:30:57)

They were just a natural part of your life. I'm not a big fan of religion being a natural part of my life. But this concept of the other being a part of my life, I'm perfectly, perfectly happy with. I just don't necessarily want to know exactly what it is, unless I feel I know I'm going to feel comfortable with it. Come on, you want to know what it is, no matter what. (2:31:21)

I don't know. No, I don't know. I mean, it's, it's... let me tell you what I was, when I was spoken to, so to speak, I always mentioned this, that I was, I was at the agency. I was a contractor at the time, though. And I had two people come in and brief me seven hours, and it wasn't on a UAP program per se, but it was on some highly classified stuff associated with it. (2:31:52)

And scared the living hell out of me. And because they, they, they told me things that I, that I had read about it, and I sort of knew, and I thought were maybe, well, maybe yes, maybe no, but they, no, that's actually real. And by the way, we've done experiments with this, classified experiments with this, run by this, you know, place, that place, and another place, and this is what we found out. (2:32:17)

And then you, when you ingest that, and you go, holy cow, I was not myself for about three months. My wife's a clinical psychologist, and she will tell you I was, had the thousand mile stare, you know, the pale lips. I mean, I was not in a good way. (2:32:28)

And this was because it was, it was, the veil was lifted. The, the, the new, the new reality sort of set in a little bit, saying like, yeah, you read about this and all the books back here, and, but you always had that veil there. Oh, that could be all bullshit, or, you know, maybe it's not real. (2:32:49)

But then all of a sudden, unless somebody lifts the veil, I go, no, no, you know, that book, that book, that book, right on the money, that book's bullshit. And then, and then going through, right, you know, this is what, what really is real. And this is what we've done. And they start talking to you about, you know, what really has occurred. And then he came back and did it again. (2:33:11)

And then when you start talking to these people who are, have been in the know for a long time, and what they're interested in, and, you know, their PhDs, their MDs, some of them have two PhDs, and, you know, very well versed in this, you know, involved in really, you know, unusual government programs that are out there. And you wouldn't believe how many there are. (2:33:36)

And, you know, I remember getting briefed on a couple of them when I, when I was at the age, I was going, I don't want to know anymore. I mean, it's too strange. I mean, the stuff that goes on, and... UFO or consciousness stuff? Uh, not UFO, I would say. Psychic stuff. Also, extremely strange technologies that you would think, you know, wouldn't exist that they do, you know, we have. Yeah, yeah, we developed. (2:34:08)

Yeah, we developed or the Russians developed over years, but mostly us. And, and, you know, you don't know what to do with it. You know, it's like pharmaceutical companies, right? You go to a pharmaceutical company. And the reason why pharmaceutical companies keep all their data secure is because they're looking for, say, a cure for heart disease. But in the middle of that, the 20 years they're doing this, they come across all kinds of stuff that could maybe help with other afflictions. (2:34:41)

But there's no money in it. But they don't want to let the data out because they let the data out. I mean, they're just giving somebody else something for free that they spent all their money on. So they, they just keep it. All right. And they just sort of sit on it. And yeah, I mean, you know, it's, it doesn't have a use now, but it may have a use later on. (2:34:55)

What were some of the... Want to give it to a foreign government also, so. Yeah. What were some of the stuff that, when, when they had to talk with you that came off or that's, that's real? Well, one of the things, one of the things was one of them told me, they were talking about my experience, you know, and, and the, because I was very concerned, you know, you know, and I was explaining to them, you know, I know the difference between liminal states and, and, you know, and, and lucid dreaming and hypnagogic states and stuff. (2:35:36)

I said, this wasn't it. This was as real as me talking to you. Right. And I said, so where does this place me? Is there, you know, can I have a, a brain spasm or something? And, and then they said, they had me describe the beings that showed up. So I did. I roughed out a little sketch, but I explained to him and one of the guys said, I know exactly who they are. (2:35:59)

And I said, really? He said, yeah, they're called, you know, well, they're called by Bendy. They've only showed up three times, you know, once in Mauritius, once in Spain and once in your house. Yeah. The fuck would he know that? Right, right, right. And not only that, but, you know, there was other stuff associated with that. It was just, you know, it just, it's just, oh, okay. (2:36:27)

I mean, did they have like a file on those beings of where they're from potentially or what type of technology? (2:36:30)

Everything they have, and I have to tell you that, and this is the absolute truth. This is what I will say. Everything they have is, is cursory, is superficial. It's, it's somebody in the government may have more in-depth detail. Like I had one person tell me, well, there's six known species of NHI, right? I can't verify that, but it came from a reliable source, right? Okay. But what the hell does that mean? You know, tall whites, you know, reptilians, little grays, big grays, cobalts. (2:37:09)

I mean, you can, you can say that, but unless you can tell me, you know, what you know about them and these, this person could not and admitted that no more than that, you know. So we're stuck and, you know, and once again, you know, you, you, and that's one of the problems with throwing out information like this without making it conditional. (2:37:26)

You, you, you can't come out and say, I know that there are six known species of NHI. You just can't do that. You don't have anything backing it up. All you're doing then is clouding the waters. So a lot of these people that I deal with and I work with, we don't talk about this publicly. We talk about it privately because we know when you go public with this, it just muddies the water. (2:37:49)

It doesn't lead you anywhere until you actually have something that you can back it up with. And that's what I talked you about earlier. It's like chicken shit. You asked me this stuff and I give you this chicken shit answer. Like, well, I can't talk about it. You know, I, I feel terrible about that. I really do. And, and, and I, I, it's, that's why I don't like going on podcasts very much. (2:38:07)

I like you though, James, you know, Peter was this extra thing thrown in there and I was like, God, I can't, can't pass that up. But, but you see the problem. And, and this is the problem with many, many people in government too. You just, you don't, you don't want to come out and say, we think, we think something, something that's really challenging to accept when you don't have anything backing that up. (2:38:34)

So I, so my, my feeling has always been, is give the government a little bit of credit here, right? You know, this is not some kind of cabal that's, you know, trying to create, you know, we have this, these technologies that's going to save this and save that and change the world. (2:38:53)

I heard that recently. Nonsense. Nonsense. The only technologies, if you come up with a technology for free energy, okay. And you, and you say, okay, should we let that out? Should we give that to the public? You first have to think about what will happen when that goes out to the public, because it's not to everybody. (2:39:11)

It goes out to your enemies. It goes out to your friends. What could you do with that? What, what does that mean? That free energy, what will that create? Will that create a weapon system that can destroy our company, our country, that we can destroy other companies with? Does it level the playing field militarily for everybody if you let that energy out? Okay, maybe that's the case. (2:39:34)

Then maybe I also can give free energy to everybody around the world so they don't ever have to worry about oil again. I don't have to worry about windmills or anything else. You just have to worry about something very small and everybody lives this great life. But you've also given the energy, I mean, it's sort of dynamically, it's hanging over your head. (2:39:52)

There's always two sides of this. And human beings are simply not in a place where I would trust them with anything like that. That's why we have police and military and rules and regulations. Because if you don't have that, you have chaos. Boy, listen to me, I'm just going on like that. (2:40:13)

And by the way, this is going on a little long here. I have a sort of a drop dead in not too long down the road here. So yeah, yeah, me too. I gotta get my kids. (2:40:21)

Um, so then let's let's go on the road wrapping this up. The. Peter, you, you wrote war. What I mean, it's massive. So it's a it's a massive war. What what are some key takeaways? Do you think that you would like people to take away from the book? I think we we did a pretty good job in trying to explain government reactions towards the phenomenon in different countries. (2:41:14)

We did chapters on Russia, on China, showing the degree to which the phenomenon in all of these places is understood on different levels. It's not strictly a military problem or an aviation problem, let's say, or a science problem. It's also a spiritual problem. China approached it that way. Russia approached it that way. (2:41:43)

I mean, the the man who jump jump started the the Chinese rocket, this rocket science in China was originally one of the scientists working with us at the Jet Propulsion Lab. And because of the McCarthy era, they accused him of being a Chinese spy and everything else. He was under house arrest. (2:42:01)

He couldn't do any work. Eventually, they let him go. But then he said, screw you, I'm out of here. He went to China and basically created wholeheartedly, single handedly, the Chinese rocket industry. And very famous guy. But in the back of all of that, he was fascinated with spirituality. And he decided to make a study of Chinese spirituality and made big contributions to, you know, trying to understand ESP, psychokinesis and all of this, using Chinese systems of, you know, Qi regulation and all of that, and applied that to his work. (2:42:35)

I mean, in general, to him, science and spirituality was a continuum. So there was that, there was the Russians who at one point decided they could communicate with the phenomenon. At one particular Russian military base, they realized that every time there was a big motion, a movement of heavy equipment, of tanks and half tracks and that sort of thing, the phenomenon would kind of show up to see what was going on. (2:43:04)

So they deliberately started doing that. And when the phenomenon would show up, they would kind of signal to it using their hands. They would raise their hands this way and the phenomenon would kind of line up. Then they would do that and the phenomenon would move to the side. And they realized they were having a rudimentary communication with the phenomenon. (2:43:25)

That was released at that little honeymoon period between the fall of the Soviet Union and the Putin regime. So you had this little area where KGB files were being released, military files were being released. Generals were starting to talk about the phenomenon. And you realize that they were doing this. We were at war with each other on one level. And at the same time, we were all looking at the phenomenon kind of the same way, looking to see how we could communicate with it. (2:43:51)

Is it spiritual? Is it consciousness as well as nuts and bolts? Or is it nuts and bolts at all? All of this was going on. So I think war kind of makes that point that we're all in the same boat when it comes to the phenomenon. (2:44:01)

But also it asks a lot of questions about ideas like invasion. Is there such a thing as an alien invasion? To the stars have been criticized by saying that we're propping up the alien invasion theory, that the aliens are a threat. And that's not what the purpose is. That's not what we're trying to do. (2:44:26)

What we're trying to do is say, if we were to regard the alien phenomenon as a military threat, we might be devoting more resources to it. We might be looking at it with a more holistic approach. But as it is, we're kind of poo-pooing it. We're not letting science take a sober, jaundiced look at it. We're afraid of religions taking a closer look at it. (2:44:45)

So we're kind of fragmenting our resources. Nobody's on the same page. So war is trying to make the case that there is a way for us all to cooperate on this, to look at this phenomenon in a more positive way. At the same time, realizing that our mode of looking at this phenomenon is outdated. (2:45:10)

We can't keep looking at it as it's strictly a military problem or an intelligence problem, or even a science problem. We have to sort of look at it in a more holistic way. Everybody has a piece of this puzzle. And by everybody, not just in the U.S., but around the world. Everybody's got a piece. Everybody has their own piece. (2:45:27)

And if they all brought all the pieces together, we might be able to put this puzzle together in such a way that we get the beginnings of an outline of how to approach it, or how to understand it. And I think war talks about that, talks about the contributions that we all can make based on our history. (2:45:43)

Those countries that have been invaded, and those countries that did the invading. We both have pieces of this problem that we can discuss, that we can find out what would happen should we get invaded by an alien presence. Has the invasion already taken place? Are they already here? Are they already manipulating the situation? Do they know what's happening in our world? Are they manipulating it, as we've been discussing? Is this deliberate? Is this accidental? So war kind of makes those points, but it goes really into a lot of the strangeness that accompanied the military and intelligence investigation of the phenomenon. (2:46:23)

We talk about Guy Bannister and Maury Island and the Fred Crisman situation. We talk about Morris Jessup. We talk about some of the lives that were lost, quite frankly, because they were ridiculed for studying the phenomenon, like James McDonald, the famous scientist who testified in front of Congress that this was real, and was laughed out of the building because he dared to suggest this. (2:46:47)

There's a chapter called Collateral Damage, where we talk about all of this. Richard Doty, Paul Benowitz, that gets brought up as well. What's going on with these guys? Why was it okay for Air Force intelligence, for AFOSI to go and target somebody like Paul Benowitz? Is this where we're at? Is this okay? Is this permissible? (2:47:09)

We ask these questions as well. There should be a way to look at our military and intelligence and make them responsible for some of this. At the same time, we're responsible for having a more open mind where this phenomenon is concerned. We're not divided. We're not splintered, because it's going to be easier. If there ever is an alien invasion, I would want to pick the planet the way it is right now, everybody at each other's throats. (2:47:35)

Wars for ridiculous things. Wars that make no sense. Genocides occurring everywhere. What a perfect time for an alien to invade. Or maybe they're looking at us and saying, you're doing a good job on your own. We don't need to invade. We'll just wait till the smoke clears and see who's left. It's tough questions like that. The last chapter is called The Alien and the Panopticon, which is a kind of a heady thing, but the Panopticon is an invention of a prism where you have a column and you have all of these cells in a circle, like an arena, around that central column. (2:48:14)

One person in a central column can watch everybody in all the individual cells, in all the rows, all the columns, and they can see right into every individual cell, but you can't really see who's looking at you. I thought that was a very apt way of trying to discuss the phenomenon. We're in a kind of Panopticon. We're looking at each other. (2:48:36)

We're looking at the other cells. We can't quite see who's looking at us in that central column. There's somebody in there. There's that alien sitting in there watching all of us. And is that a metaphor that we can use with benefit in trying to understand where we are? Jim, what do you want people to take away from this pursuit of either disclosure or investigating the phenomenon? Well, I know people are going to hate hearing this, but it's going to have to be a little bit more patience. (2:49:15)

And I know it's incredibly frustrating, you know, particularly for their experiencers and for people who just want knowledge, you know, who want to go for the pursuit of knowledge. And I don't think they should stop doing that. I mean, I think they should keep doing what they're doing. I mean, Lou Elizondo, Chris Mellon, these guys, Dave Grish, they're going to keep pushing this and pushing this and pushing this. (2:49:34)

We at To The Stars do that also in our own way. And, you know, we also do it, you know, through other channels. And we're hoping that sooner than later, something more will come out. But I don't know if that's going to be the case. I just don't know. But in the meantime, I think what God's Man and War, what we tried to get across, and what Peter, I think, has done so brilliantly with it, and he just, you know, summarized it pretty well. (2:50:08)

I mean, I... it's this idea that you have to look at everything. It's a multidisciplinary approach. And you have to be cognizant of that at all the time. You can't rush to judgment. You can't, you know, basically say, oh, this is right, and this is wrong. And you sort of just have to step back and look at it all and realize it is what it is. And it is an incredible mystery. (2:50:31)

When John Mack, you know, wrote his book, I think it was Passport to the Cosmos or Abduction, I can't remember which one, and he said, perhaps we should just recognize that this is just a mystery, and we should recognize it as such, and we shouldn't go any further. In other words, there's no reason to go any further right now, because we just don't have the data. (2:50:50)

We just don't. For whatever reason, we don't have the data. And like I said, the NHI, UAP is not cooperating fully with us. So what do they expect us to do? I mean, so it's hard. It's very, very hard. It's been a hot potato, by the way, since the 40s, I can tell you that much. No government agency wants this. (2:51:19)

No one does, because it's just a hot potato. And, you know, you can throw money at it. And, you know, throw money at what? I mean, you know, you're throwing money at something you can't understand. How long could you do that before somebody says, is that the correct use of government funds? I mean, you know, look, if the best minds that are dealing with this right now, and there are dozens and dozens of top rate minds that are dealing with this now, not in the government, outside of the government, and they can't make heads or tails of this. (2:51:44)

What makes you think, you know, the government's going to know any more? I mean, they might have the downcraft and the things, but they might get so much, maybe a little bit farther with it. (2:51:52)

So let's be considerate. Let's be a little understanding. And let's hope that there's some kind of resolution to this, because, James, you're absolutely right when you said, you know, people have a right to know. I've said this before, you know, yeah, we have a right to know. It's our birthright, right? We need to know where we're living. What kind of world are we living in? (2:52:16)

You can't hide that from me. Well, the government can't hide that from us either. You know, they can't. They don't own it. They don't own this topic at all. We own it. This is why I think public and private efforts really should go hand in hand trying to figure this out. And it's happening slowly, but it's happening. So... And are we getting disclosure, Jim? (2:52:37)

I don't think anytime soon. And if we do get it, I hope the hell they know what they're doing when they announce it. I hope they know what to announce. Because seriously, I ask everybody out there who's listening to this, think about it. People always say, oh, the American people can handle it. (2:53:00)

Well, you're not dealing with just the American people. You're dealing with the world, right? Can the world population handle it? And what do you mean by handle it? What does that really entail? You know, if you talk to Hal Puthoff, Hal will tell you, they had a think tank done on this. And all the people basically said, yeah, we ought to let this out. (2:53:18)

And then after two days of thinking about it, they said, nope, nope, nope. And I just spoke to Hal the other day, and we both agreed again, not quite able to figure out how to do this. It probably shouldn't happen until we were able to do it in a way where there's some education first, you know, and gradually let this thing out. (2:53:39)

So maybe that's what they're planning on. I don't know. I mean, it sounds like the controlled disclosure plan, right? It's charted out. Well, it may be, and it may very well be. I know. No, I'm not privy to that, but... Yeah. Well, I appreciate you guys coming on. Great talking as always. I'm going to have all the links in the description so people can check out the books and To the Stars. Is there anything coming out from To the Stars soon that people should be on the lookout for? (2:54:04)

No, I would tell them to go watch Monsters of California. I think you can get it on Netflix and some of the streaming services. Tom directed the film and he did a great job, I think, directing the film, but it gives a pretty good understanding of what TTS, what To the Stars believes and thinks and what have you. (2:54:27)

Take a look at that and then keep your eye out for some of our new projects we've got going on. We got so much stuff ready. We have an animated series hopefully coming out in the next year on Tubi, starring Brendan Fraser, Josh Gad and some other people there. And we have a bunch of other projects, Secret Machines with Legendary Pictures. They just, I think, finished the first year of script. (2:54:55)

So they're pitching that to this distribution network. So there's a lot of stuff going on. Yeah. And read God's Man in War. Yes. Because it's a brilliantly done book. Yes. Yeah. And I think after you, even if you've read them, you have to go back. You almost have to go back and read them over. I do that constantly with his books, your books, Peter. I have to go back. (2:55:18)

I have to go back. And yeah. Thank God for Kindles. I can use the highlights, right? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much, guys. And I hope to speak to you again soon. (2:55:27)

Take care. Thank you, James. Very good questions, buddy. Thank you. Bye-bye. (2:55:31)

(2025-06-06)