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AI 整理 : Nick Redfern : MIB と BEK に関する C2C でのインタビュー全発言

· 50 min read

前置き​

下の情報源の動画を AI (NotebookLM plus) に整理させた。

概要

超常現象と漆黒の訪問者

この文書は、「COAST TO COAST AM」というラジオ/ネット番組の文字起こしの一部で、著名なイギリスのUFO研究家・UMA研究家であるニック・レッドファーン氏がゲストとして登場しています。

彼は自身の最新作である「The Black Diary」について語っており、その中でメン・イン・ブラック（MIB）、ウーマン・イン・ブラック（WIB）、そして**ブラック・アイド・キッズ（BEK）**といった超常現象に関わる存在について詳しく説明しています。

これらの存在が、目撃者を脅迫したり、エネルギーを吸い取ったり、さらには病気にさせたりするといった共通の特徴を持つことをレッドファーン氏は指摘し、読者が関連書籍を読むことでさえこれらの存在を招き入れる可能性があると警告しています。また、彼らは政府機関の人間ではなく、より神秘的で非人間的な性質を持つ存在であるという見解も示されています。

動画(2:20:55)​

The Djinn, Slenderman, & the Black Eyed Kids - The Real Insidious Entities

要旨

要約ブリーフィングドキュメント：「漆黒の遭遇：怪現象の深層」

このブリーフィングドキュメントは、ラジオ/ネット放送「COAST TO COAST AM」の「The Djinn, Slenderman, & the Black Eyed Kids - The Real Insidious Entities」と題された文字起こしに基づき、Nick Redfernの著作「The Black Diary, MIB」から得られた主要なテーマ、アイデア、事実をレビューする。Redfernは、UFO、UMA、超常現象の分野における著名な研究者であり、特にメン・イン・ブラック（MIB）、ウーマン・イン・ブラック（WIB）、ブラック・アイド・キッズ（BEK）といった存在に焦点を当てている。

  1. メン・イン・ブラック（MIB）の性質と行動

Redfernは、MIBの従来のイメージ（政府のエージェント）と、自身の調査で明らかになった実態との乖離を強調している。

  • 従来のイメージと実態の乖離: 「People assume, even within ufology at times, that the men in black are government agents. Now, I don't dispute that on occasion, government agents have gone out to interview people about UFO encounters... But the overwhelming majority of all the reports, if you look at the witness testimony, they describe something very much different.」（人々は、UFO研究でさえ、メン・イン・ブラックを政府のエージェントだと考えている。政府のエージェントがUFO遭遇について人々に聞き取り調査に行ったことは否定しないが、証言の圧倒的多数は、全く異なる何かを語っている。）
  • 非人間的な外見: 彼らは「very pale and gaunt, almost like emaciated」（非常に青白く痩せこけていて、まるで衰弱しているよう）であり、「oversized eyes sometimes, which they hide behind wraparound sunglasses」（時に特大の目をしており、それをラップアラウンドのサングラスで隠している）と描写される。
  • 強制的な侵入と精神操作: 目撃者は、通常なら絶対にドアを開けないような状況で、なぜか彼らを家に入れてしまう。「the weird thing is that people do let them in. And with hindsight, they feel as if somehow they were sort of mind controlled or hypnotized somehow to let them in the house.」（奇妙なことに、人々は彼らを中に入れる。そして後になって、まるで何らかの形で精神的に操られたり、催眠術をかけられたりして家に入れたように感じる。）
  • エネルギー吸収の可能性: MIBの訪問後、目撃者は「feel ill. They start to feel weak. They feel something happens to them. Yeah, as if they've got no energy.」（気分が悪くなり、弱くなり、何かが起こったように感じる。まるでエネルギーがなくなったかのよう）と報告する。Redfernは、「could these entities actually be, if you like, literally draining us of our energy, something like a supernatural parasitic creature that feeds on the human life force and human energy.」（これらの存在は文字通り我々のエネルギーを吸い取っているのではないか、人間の生命力やエネルギーを餌にする超自然的な寄生生物のようなものではないか）と推測する。
  • 物理的危害の欠如と脅威: 物理的な暴力の報告はないものの、「the threat is always sort of a verbal threat. There's an undertone there.」（脅威は常に口頭によるものであり、その裏には含みがある。）この脅威は非常に効果的で、目撃者は数十年もの間、体験を秘密にすることが多い。
  • 「超自然的感染」の可能性: MIBが家にいた数日後、あるいは数時間以内に、目撃者が「sick with diseases and illnesses」（病気や疾患にかかる）ケースが多数報告されている。これは「supernaturally infected」（超自然的に感染させられた）と表現される。
  1. ウーマン・イン・ブラック（WIB）

WIBは、MIBと同様の特性を持つ、見過ごされがちな現象であるとRedfernは指摘する。

  • MIBとの類似性: 「they have this sort of same appearance as the men in black, where their skin is very pale and some people described it as looking plastic-like and doesn't sort of seem fully normal. And like the men in black, they wear these large wraparound sunglasses and threaten people not to talk about their UFO encounters.」（彼らはメン・イン・ブラックと同じような外見をしており、肌は非常に青白く、まるでプラスチックのようで、完全に正常には見えないと表現する人もいる。メン・イン・ブラックと同様に、大きなラップアラウンドサングラスをかけ、UFO遭遇について話さないよう人々に脅しをかける。）
  • 目撃事例: 2012年のGloriaの事例では、UFO目撃の翌日、WIBが訪問し、「The government doesn't want you to talk about this or to know about this」（政府はあなたがこれについて話したり知ったりすることを望んでいない）と告げた。
  • 歴史的出現: John Keelの研究でも、1960年代のモスマン事件の目撃者がWIBの訪問を受けていたことが示されている。WIBは、政府の人口調査官を装い、その後で奇妙な個人的な質問をする。
  • 調査者への影響: Keel自身も、WIBのせいで脅迫の電話を受けるという形で、この現象に巻き込まれた。
  1. ブラック・アイド・キッズ（BEK）

BEKは、その不気味な性質とMIB・WIBとの明確な類似性によって注目されている。

  • MIB/WIBとの類似性:服装: MIBが黒いスーツ、WIBが黒いビジネススーツを着用するのと同様に、BEKは「usually wear sort of a black hoodie」（通常、黒いパーカーを着ている）。

    • 外見: 肌はMIBやWIBと同様に「very pale」（非常に青白い）。
    • 行動パターン: 彼らもまた「typically turn up late at night, knock on the door, and they try and find a way to get invited in the home」（通常、深夜に現れ、ドアをノックし、家の中に招き入れられる方法を探す）。
    • エネルギー吸収: BEKが家に入ると、目撃者はMIBの場合と同様に「started to feel ill as well. They started to feel weak and tired」（気分が悪くなり、弱くなり、疲れる）と報告する。
    • 残存する負のエネルギー: MIBと同様に、BEKが去った後も「weird vibe, as if some sort of residual negative energy has been left behind」（奇妙な雰囲気、まるで何らかの残存する負のエネルギーが残されているかのように）が感じられる。

  • 特徴的な黒い目: 「the overriding thing that freaks most of the witnesses out are these solid black eyes that these kids, if they are kids, have.」（目撃者のほとんどを恐怖に陥れる最も重要な点は、もし彼らが子供であるならば、彼らが持っている完全に黒い目である。）

  • 招待の必要性: MIB/WIB/BEKのすべてに共通する側面は、「which, in some strange ways, kind of parallel the old legends of vampires, which have to be invited into your home before they can cross the threshold.」（奇妙なことに、敷居を越える前に家に招き入れられる必要があるという、古い吸血鬼の伝説に似ている。）招待されないと彼らは去っていく。

  • 動物の反応: 家族の犬が、BEKに対して「very sort of hostile, or in some cases, terrified response」（非常に敵対的、または場合によっては恐ろしい反応）を示すことが報告されている。

  1. 現象の超自然的性質とRedfern自身の体験

Redfernは、これらの現象が単なる政府の活動や地球外生命体ではない、より深い超自然的な性質を持つと主張する。

  • 調査者の巻き込まれ: Redfern自身も、これらの現象を調査する中で、「started to experience some of the weirdness that the witnesses themselves who'd seen the men in black had experienced as well.」（メン・イン・ブラックを見た目撃者自身が経験した奇妙な現象を、自分も経験し始めた。）これには、真夜中の不審な電話や、電子機器の故障が含まれる。
  • 「本を読むことによる招致」: MIBやBEKに関する本を読むことが、奇妙な現象（ポルターガイスト活動、電子機器の故障など）を引き起こすという報告がある。「just by thinking about these phenomena, it somehow invited them in」（これらの現象について考えるだけで、なぜか彼らを招き入れた）と感じる人もいる。
  • 物質化/非物質化: MIB、WIB、BEKのいずれも、家を去る際に「almost impossibly quickly for normal people」（通常の人間にはほとんど不可能な速さで）姿を消す。彼らは玄関で「manifest」（物質化）し、「dematerialize」（非物質化）するかのようだ。MIBの場合は、50年代の黒い車に乗って突然消えるケースも報告されている。
  • グリンニング・マン: MIBのサブカテゴリーとして、「グリンニング・マン」という存在が挙げられる。彼は黒いスーツを着ており、「weird grin that he has on his face. Constantly, apparently.」（顔に奇妙な笑顔を常に浮かべている。）この笑顔は「not like a friendly, inviting smile. It's sort of the smile that something like an axe murderer would have, you know, something along those lines, like a psychotic, dangerous smile.」（友好的で誘うような笑顔ではなく、まるで斧殺人鬼のような、精神病質で危険な笑顔である。）
  1. 主なテーマと結論

Redfernの議論から浮かび上がる主要なテーマは以下の通りである。

  • 非人間的・超次元的性質: MIB、WIB、BEKは、従来の政府のエージェントや地球外生命体という説明を超越した存在である。彼らは「not entirely human」（完全に人間ではない）、「alien-human hybrids」（エイリアンと人間のハイブリッド）、「paranormal or multidimensional」（超常的または多次元的）な存在である可能性が示唆されている。
  • エネルギー的寄生: これらの存在が、人間の生命力やエネルギーを餌とする「supernatural parasitic creature」（超自然的な寄生生物）であるという可能性が強く示唆されている。
  • 心理的・身体的影響: 彼らの訪問は、目撃者に心理的な恐怖（数十年続く）と、身体的な病気や疲労をもたらす。
  • 招待のメカニズム: 吸血鬼の伝説のように、彼らはターゲットの家に入るために招待される必要があるという共通の行動パターンを持つ。
  • 現象の連鎖性: MIB、WIB、BEKは個別の現象ではなく、共通の行動、外見、影響を持つ相互に関連する存在である。
  • 「本を読むことによる招致」の危険性: これらの現象について知識を得たり、考えたりすることが、これらの存在を自身の「スペース」に招き入れてしまう可能性があるという、非常に不穏な示唆が提示されている。Redfern自身の体験と、読者からの報告がこれを裏付けている。

全体として、Redfernはこれらの「黒い」存在が、人間の理解を超えた、より暗く、より脅威的な性質を持っていることを示唆している。彼らの行動は、情報の抑制だけでなく、より根源的な目的、すなわち人間のエネルギーを吸い取ることにある可能性を示唆している。そして、これらの現象への関心が、意図せず彼らを自身の人生に招き入れるリスクがあるという警告が、最も重要な結論の一つとして挙げられるだろう。

timeline + 主要関係者

タイムライン​

約6歳 (ニック・レッドファーンの幼少期)​

  • ニック・レッドファーンが両親とスコットランドへ旅行し、ネス湖でネッシーの話を聞く。これが彼が超常現象の世界に最初に触れた経験となる。

約11〜12歳 (ニック・レッドファーンの青年期)​

  • ニック・レッドファーンがUFOに焦点を当てて超常現象に関する本を読み始める。

1950年代〜1960年代 (MIB現象の初期)​

  • ごく一部の政府機関の人間が、暗いスーツとフェドラ帽を着用してUFO遭遇者への聞き込みを行う。
  • ジョン・キールがポイント・プレザントで「モルマン」事件を調査していた時期に、多くのモルマン目撃者がブラック・ウーマンに訪問され脅迫されるケースが報告される。
  • 「ニヤリと笑う男（Grinning Man）」現象が1960年代に始まる。「インジュード・コールド」と名乗る人物の目撃談が報告される。

2012年7月 (デカター、テキサス州)​

  • グロリアという女性が自宅の裏庭で1950年代の空飛ぶ円盤を目撃する。

2012年7月の翌日 (デカター、テキサス州)​

  • グロリアの家にブラック・ウーマンが訪れ、UFOの目撃について話さないよう脅迫する。

2014年 (デカター、テキサス州)​

  • ニック・レッドファーンがグロリアと直接会い、彼女のブラック・ウーマン遭遇体験についてインタビューを行う。

過去2年半 (The Black Diary執筆期間)​

  • ニック・レッドファーンが「The Black Diary」を執筆。この期間中に、MIB、ブラック・ウーマン、黒い目の子供に関する新たな情報と、彼自身が遭遇した不可解な出来事を記録する。
  • ニック・レッドファーンが、MIBの目撃者が経験する電話のノイズや静電気などの奇妙な現象を自身も体験し始める。
  • ニック・レッドファーンが、過去にMIBや黒い目の子供に関する本を読んだ人々が経験した、読書中に発生するポルターガイスト現象や電気機器の損傷などの現象に気づく。
  • ニック・レッドファーンが、黒い目の子供に関する本の読者が、読書中に不可解な電気的問題や、現象が自分たちの空間に招かれているかのような感覚を経験していることを、デビッド・ウェザーリーとのインタビューを通じて知る。

最近数年間 (MIB遭遇者の証言)​

  • 1960年代や1970年代にMIBに遭遇した人々が、3〜4年前にようやくその経験について語り始める。

現在 (MIB、ブラック・ウーマン、黒い目の子供の現象)​

  • 黒い目の子供の現象が成長・拡大し続けている。
  • ニック・レッドファーンは、MIB、ブラック・ウーマン、黒い目の子供といった現象が「考えるだけで招き入れてしまう」性質を持つと考える。
  • これらの現象は、人間をエネルギー源として利用する寄生的な存在である可能性があると示唆されている。
  • 遭遇後、目撃者が原因不明の病気にかかるケースが多数報告されている。
  • 現象が去った後も、家の中に奇妙な雰囲気が残り、ポルターガイスト現象が発生することが報告されている。

登場人物​

  • ニック・レッドファーン (Nick Redfern)

    • イギリスのUFO学者、未確認生物学者、超常現象研究者。数多くのUFO、未確認生物学、超常現象、陰謀論に関する著書を持つ。UFOに関する英国空軍、航空省、国防省の機密文書を数千ページも解明してきた。最新作は「The Black Diary, MIB」。MIB現象の調査を通じて、自身もその現象の一部となる経験をする。

  • ジョージ (George)

    • ラジオ番組「COAST TO COAST AM」のホスト。ニック・レッドファーンの著作や調査について彼にインタビューする。

  • グロリア (Gloria)

    • テキサス州デカターに住む女性。2012年7月に自宅でUFOを目撃し、その翌日にブラック・ウーマンから脅迫を受ける。数年経ってもその経験に対する恐怖心を抱いている。

  • ジョン・キール (John Keel)

    • 偉大な超常現象研究者であり作家。1960年代にポイント・プレザントのモルマン事件を調査し、そこでブラック・ウーマンがモルマンの目撃者を訪問し脅迫していたことを発見した。また、自身もブラック・ウーマンと関わる経験を持つ。1966年に「ニヤリと笑う男」との遭遇について記述した。

  • インジュード・コールド (Injured Cold)

    • 1960年代に報告された「ニヤリと笑う男（Grinning Man）」現象の初期に登場した、この謎めいた存在の呼称。

  • マックスウェル一家 (The Maxwell family)

    • カリフォルニア在住の家族。UFO遭遇体験を持ち、「ニヤリと笑う男」に遭遇したケースがニック・レッドファーンの著書で紹介されている。

  • デビッド・ウェザーリー (David Weatherly)

    • 黒い目の子供（Black-Eyed Children）の現象を世に広めた人物。ニック・レッドファーンは彼にインタビューを行い、黒い目の子供に関する興味深いケースを共有している。
文字起こし

（以下は ラジオ/ネット 放送 "COAST TO COAST AM" の文字起こしです。タイトルは "The Djinn, Slenderman, & the Black Eyed Kids - The Real Insidious Entities" で、ゲストは Nick Redfern です。この文字起こしから、主要な事実や、事例、体験談を整理して。）

And welcome back to Coast to Coast. One of our favorite guests, British ufologist, cryptozoologist Nick Redfern, author of many books on UFOs, cryptozoology, the paranormal conspiracies. Nick writes regularly for magazines and he has uncovered thousands of pages of classified documents that the Royal Air Force, the Air Ministry, and the Ministry of Defense files on UFOs. And here he is back on Coast to Coast with his latest work, The Black Diary, MIB. That's men in black, women in black, black-eyed children in dangerous books. (1:13:16)

I hope your book's not dangerous, Nick. Well, it may well be, George. Welcome back. How have you been? I'm good, thanks. How's it going? Good. You're all over the country these days, aren't you? My gosh. Well, I guess it's what I do. I investigate and write and lecture. I like to get the new material out there. A lot of people who are interested in the same things as me, I think it's important that we get this information out there and share it and try to figure out what's going on. (1:13:48)

Did you go through an evolution yourself? Did you start off, for example, as a ufologist and then you brought in crypto, or was it the other way around? What was your progression? Well, actually, when I was about six years old, my parents took me on a week's vacation to Scotland, and we spent a day at Loch Ness. And my dad told me the story of the Loch Ness Monster, and that's sort of what was my first opening, I guess, to the world of the paranormal. (1:14:19)

But yeah, I think when I was sort of about 11 or 12, I definitely was sort of more focused just on UFOs when I started reading books on the paranormal. But then, you know, I sort of expanded a little bit more and then found in some cases there are even crossovers, you know, between some of these different phenomena as well. So I guess it's like anything in life, you know, that the more you look into it, the more you find, you know. Nick, let's talk about, of course, the brand new book, The Black Diary. Tell me about the title. (1:14:49)

Well, basically, George, it's called The Black Diary because it's written in sort of like a journal-type style, and it covers about the last two and a half years. And it's focused on all the various new material that I've got on the men in black mystery, the women in black, and the black-eyed children. And because it was sort of like a day-by-day saga where a lot was actually sort of tied into a lot of this weirdness that went on in that particular period, that's why I decided to sort of write it and chronicle it in sort of a diary-slash-journal style. (1:15:31)

And it's filled with new accounts of the men in black, the women in black, and a lot of new material on the black-eyed children phenomenon, which is still growing and expanding as well. And for me, I think more than anything else, the most sinister aspect of the whole story is how I kind of got dragged into it as well and started to experience some of the weirdness that the witnesses themselves who'd seen the men in black had experienced as well. (1:16:07)

What dragged you in on this? How'd that happen? Well, I've written several previous books on the men in black mystery, and I get a lot of feedback. And so a substantial amount of the material came from people who wanted to share their stories, having read some of the previous books. But it wasn't quite that sort of simple. The more that I interviewed these people and investigated their cases, etc., etc., I found that I was becoming sort of part of the story, where, for example, some of the witnesses described getting hang-up phone calls in the middle of the night with sort of strange electronic noises, bleeps, and static down the phone. And then I started to experience things like that as well. (1:16:56)

And it sort of blurred the lines between the witness and the writer to where there was this sort of, like I said, blurring of the lines. And I became part of the phenomenon as well, if you like, which usually, you know, I sort of stay detached and just write about it. But it was very different on this occasion where, you know, it was difficult to determine who was the investigator and who was the witness, and was it a bit of both. (1:17:30)

Yeah, I love it. And I love the title, The Black Diary, but you've got this little tiny, what looks like a sticker on the book. It's part of the cover that says, warning, just picking up this book invites them in. Well, you know, I mean, some people said, you know, is that just like a gimmick? And it actually isn't. The reason why it has that on the cover of the book is because one of the things that I found, and this is sort of really sort of kind of creepy and disturbing, is that various people who had read books on things like the Men in Black and the Black-Eyed Children, including some of my earlier Men in Black books, they found that when they were reading books on these particular topics, strange phenomena would happen. I interviewed five or six people for the book who had been reading about the Black-Eyed Children specifically, and they started to experience really weird stuff in the house, like poltergeist activity, significant damage to electrical equipment, which would just sort of blow out like microwaves, refrigerators, TVs. And they found that it would happen when they were reading about these phenomena. (1:18:54)

When they weren't, it would go away. And several of the people I interviewed actually felt that just by thinking about these phenomena, it somehow invited them in, so to speak, and as if an alarm bell kind of goes off from their perspective, and then they start to turn the tables on the researchers, on the people reading the books. (1:19:18)

And I found this on so many occasions where thinking about these phenomena and writing about them really did seem to almost invite them in, so to speak. Let's break down the men in black, women in black, Black-Eyed Children as we go through this, Nick, and then we'll take calls next hour with everybody. Okay. Men in black, they have been considered to be government agents, extraterrestrial beings, they seem to have no chemistry at all, no personality. (1:19:52)

What's your take? Well, yeah, I mean, that's a good point, because I think it's important to note that, you know, certainly for the general public, you mentioned the men in black, you know, they think of Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones, you know, they think of the movie versions of the men in black, because the movies were so sort of iconic and popular. (1:20:15)

People assume, even within ufology at times, that the men in black are government agents. Now, I don't dispute that on occasion, government agents have gone out to interview people about UFO encounters, and back in the 50s and 60s, the guys did wear sort of, you know, dark suits and fedoras. So a small percentage, I think, do fall into that category. (1:20:35)

But the overwhelming majority of all the reports, if you look at the witness testimony, they describe something very much different. And by that, I mean, they talk about seeing these men in black as looking very pale and gaunt, almost like emaciated, and they have these oversized eyes sometimes, which they hide behind wraparound sunglasses. And people, you know, you would imagine that late at night, if you get a knock on the door, and you look through the spy hole, and you see these strange men in black, the other side of the door, you certainly wouldn't let them in. (1:21:19)

But the weird thing is that people do let them in. And with hindsight, they feel as if somehow they were sort of mind controlled or hypnotized somehow to let them in the house. And this angle of the sort of the hypnosis or the mind control, coupled with how weird and strange they look, has given rise to the idea that they're not entirely human, that are they alien-human hybrids, are they something paranormal or multidimensional? All we can say for sure is that if you look at the overwhelming majority of all the reports, they honestly do not come across like, you know, they're working for some sort of government agency. (1:22:01)

It's the story of the men in black is far more H.P. Lovecraft than it is the X-Files, you know. It's more like a gothic nightmarish type story. Now, what do they generally want, in your opinion? What are they after? Well, primarily, when you speak to the witnesses, we get this angle where they threaten people and frighten them, terrorize them, into not talking about their UFO experiences. (1:22:33)

But some researchers suspect that that may actually be kind of a ruse. And I'll explain what I mean by that. There are a lot of cases where when the men in black and the women in black and the black-eyed kids are in the house of the targeted person, the witness or the victim, they start to feel ill. They start to feel weak. (1:22:58)

They feel something happens to them. Yeah, as if they've got no energy. And one of the suspicions is that could these entities actually be, if you like, literally draining us of our energy, something like a supernatural parasitic creature that feeds on the human life force and human energy. Now, that sounds controversial, which it certainly is. But there are a lot of people who've reported back where they literally felt they were so weak, you know, they could barely stand up to, you know, to get to the door, to get away from them. (1:23:31)

Others felt, you know, that they had sort of the shakes, you know, as if they were like a, almost like a diabetic starts to crash, you know. And I have so many cases like that, that it's difficult to deny that possibility that we're dealing with something that views us almost as fuel or food almost. Have you ever had any reports of MIBs physically hurting somebody? (1:24:01)

Well, that's an interesting question, George, because actually the answer is no. (1:24:08)

It's the threat is always sort of a verbal threat. There's an undertone there, right? Oh yeah, there's definitely an undertone where people very often keep these stories or these encounters with the men in black to themselves for not just years, but sometimes for decades, because they're still terrified that they're going to come back and, you know, and threaten them or who knows what next time. (1:24:40)

But although I'm not sort of aware of any literally physical cases of people being harmed, there's no doubt that the inference is there that if you talk about this, you know, something is going to happen. And people do, you know, they listen and they, you know, they keep this in their mind for years. I mean, for example, in the new book, The Black Diary, I've got several cases of people who'd had experiences with the men in black back in the 60s and 70s and did not talk about these experiences till, you know, sort of three or four years ago. (1:25:19)

And it specifically was because of the fear and opening the door again to what might be an even more dangerous and threatening experience. Nick, let's talk about similarities and parallels in terms of the people they visit. Are most of the visitations done at a house? Yeah, they are. Typically what happens, there'll be a knock on the door late at night. It's very rarely that these encounters occur during the day, although some of them do, but the overwhelming majority are at night. (1:25:54)

There's a knock on the door, and like anybody, you know, if you get a knock on the door at, say, 11 o'clock at night, you're going to think, who on earth is that? People go to the door, they look through the spy hole, they see these creepy trio of men in black or black-eyed kids or women in black standing there, and then that's when things start to get weird, where they clearly, under normal circumstances, none of us would open the door under those circumstances. But they do. People feel as if their mind is not theirs anymore. (1:26:23)

They can actually, in some cases, the witnesses have seen their hand go into the door and not able to stop themselves from opening it. And then, very often, there's like this little sudden blur where they remember opening the door, and then the next thing is that they're in the room staring at the person. (1:26:44)

There's this sort of like a jump sometimes of four or five seconds, which they cannot recall. And typically, one person, or one MIB, I should say, issues the threat. You won't talk about this experience you had, you won't talk about the UFO encounter you had, forget about the abduction experience, things like that. And all the time, while one of them is sort of dictating what the person will or won't do, the other MIB, or several, are intensely staring at the witness. (1:27:20)

And that's when this sort of sense of... Almost like they burned their eyes through them or something. (1:27:22)

Yeah, exactly. And that's when this sort of angle of the people feeling weak and tired and unable to sort of fight back, that's when that kicks in. And the final stage, which is perhaps the most disturbing one of all, is that in a number of cases, and actually a growing number of cases, when people have been in close proximity to the men in black in their home, within days, I think in some cases within hours, they've fallen sick with diseases and illnesses. (1:27:55)

In some fashion, they've been sort of supernaturally infected. So you put all those angles together and you're dealing with something that is far beyond, you know, government agents or something like that. It's much more mysterious than that. Are these diseases curable, or what happens? How long do they linger? Oh, yeah. I mean, there's some cases I've got where people literally within days went down with sort of very kind of exotic and rare diseases. (1:28:28)

And other cases, you know, it's like going down with a severe virus and, you know, raised temperature, but dangerously raised temperature and things like that. And which, for the most part, you know, they've all been treatable. But, you know, if it was just one or two cases where this happened after the encounter, you just put it down to coincidence. But there are a lot of reports like that. (1:29:00)

So many now where, you know, there is this parallel between them entering the house and then the person falling sick. And there's also sort of a residual energy. And what I mean by that is that a number of people reported how after the men in black have gone for a day or two, there's sort of a strange atmosphere in the family home as if there's some sort of residue left behind. (1:29:26)

And people have described things like, primarily things like a poltergeist activity, where something will sort of violently move across the table, you know, a book on a table, things like that. And as if, like I said, as if some essence of the men in black has been left behind and it gradually fades away. But for the first few days, it's sort of present and causing chaos, even though the men in black have actually gone. (1:29:52)

Let's talk about women in black. Nick, who are they? Well, George, a lot of people aren't aware of this aspect of the phenomenon. And I think possibly because, as I said at the start of the show, you know, the term men in black is sort of so iconic that I think people largely sort of, literally up until now, sort of overlooked a lot of these women in black stories, not sort of perceiving a connection. (1:30:19)

But there actually is a direct connection. For example, they have this sort of same appearance as the men in black, where their skin is very pale and some people described it as looking plastic-like and doesn't sort of seem fully normal. And like the men in black, they wear these large wraparound sunglasses and threaten people not to talk about their UFO encounters. (1:30:47)

Now, admittedly, there are less reports of the women in black than there are the men in black, but that may be that perhaps people just haven't reported them, not realizing, you know, the implications of the event. But I interviewed a number of people for the book who'd had their own women in black experiences. (1:31:04)

One of them dates only back to July 2012, and this is a woman named Gloria who lived in Decatur, Texas, or still lives in Decatur, Texas. And I interviewed her in 2014, and she told me that on in July 2012, she was sat outside in her backyard and saw this literally sort of like a 1950s-style flying saucer briefly hover over her home, and then it just suddenly shot away. (1:31:34)

And that, too, was amazing enough. But then the very next afternoon, there was a knock at the front door. When she opened the door, there was a woman stood there in a black business suit. She described it to me as looking very, very skinny and tall, and her skin looked strange, very pale, almost sort of like a mannequin-type appearance. And she was wearing what was clearly like a long black wig. (1:32:03)

It clearly wasn't a pretty good wig either. And the woman said to Gloria something along the lines of, the government doesn't want you to talk about this or to know about this. And she almost basically sort of invited herself in. And Gloria was actually quite intimidated and frightened by this experience and sort of really didn't talk about it for a while. It was only when she started to look into the phenomenon a little bit deeper and realized that what she'd actually experienced was something that many other people had experienced. (1:32:46)

And I lived just outside of Dallas, and a return trip to or drive to Decatur isn't very far at all. So I was able to speak with Gloria in person. And like so many of the other witnesses, she was still concerned by that experience years later. And she came up with the same question that so many other people also ask me, do you think they're going to come back? (1:33:09)

And that is one of the sort of overwhelming issues that surfaces in these women in black stories, that people are so fearful of the appearance and the weird nature that they not only don't forget about the experience, they worry if it's going to open the door again if they start sharing the story. Are the women in black stories relatively new? Or do we just not know about them? (1:33:37)

But for the most part, it's not a new phenomenon, but I think people have overlooked some of the cases. Now, John Keel, for example, when John Keel was doing his research into the Mothman stories at Point Pleasant, West Virginia in 1966 and 67, Keel found a number of cases where Mothman witnesses have been visited and threatened by women in black. (1:34:06)

And they used the cover story, if you like, that they were working for the government and they were taking a census kind of report, and you know, the typical kind of things, how many people live in the house, what's the average income, things like that. And then the questions would get weird. Have you had any strange dreams lately? Any paranormal phenomena? And then, of course, the witnesses realized these are not the kind of questions that a census taker would ask. (1:34:33)

And even Keel himself found himself plunged into this mystery when he got phone calls from sort of angry people in Point Pleasant who said, your secretary has been intimidating us and knocking on the door all hours of the day, demanding information. And Keel had to reply and said, I don't have a secretary. (1:35:01)

And when they described the woman to Keel, he realized it was one of these women in black, dressed totally in black, pale skin, vampire-like looking and cadaverous. (1:35:08)

And so again, this is an example of how the phenomenon, as I said earlier, turns the tables on the investigator and they become part of the phenomenon too. Have the women in black ever appeared with men in black? That's a good question. They have. There aren't too many cases like that. It's usually either one man or three men or one woman alone. (1:35:37)

But I have got a couple of cases in the book where it was a man in black and a woman in black. And what was interesting is that in one of those cases, they almost looked like twins. Although one obviously male, one female, but they did look sort of very, very similar, even though it was a different sex. (1:35:59)

And in that particular case as well, they were described as having extremely pale skin, no lines on their faces at all. And the witness pointed out that they were looking at people who they couldn't figure out how old they were. You know, were they sort of 25, 45? They just could not sort of accurately say how old they were. (1:36:29)

They just sort of looked almost like age less. And in these cases with the men in black and a woman in black turning up, what's interesting is that they were specifically abduction cases. They weren't sort of lights in the sky, anything like that. It was specifically abduction cases. (1:36:48)

Now what that means, I actually don't have any clue at all, but you know, you can find these little interesting parallels and trends that sort of place different cases into different categories when it comes to how the MIB and the women in black deal with these events. Nick, David Weatherly, of course, brought to us years ago the story of black-eyed children, and they're pretty scary type events when they occur, where these kids are just hanging around, they want in your house, and they've got this look of, you know, black eyes, you can't really see any, you know, any white of their eyes or anything like that. Tell me about your work with them. (1:37:25)

Well, one of the reasons why I'm particularly interested in the black-eyed children phenomenon, George, is because there are clear and undeniable parallels between them and the men in black and the women in black. Now, one of them, of course, is the clothing. You know, the men in black wear black suits, black fedora. (1:37:50)

The women, black business outfits and a long black wig. And black-eyed kids, you know, they usually wear sort of a black hoodie. And even their sort of, like their modus operandi, so to speak, is very similar to the men in black as well, where they typically turn up late at night, knock on the door, and they try and find a way to get invited in the home, which is a classic aspect of a lot of these reports of men in black and women in black, and which, in some strange ways, kind of parallel the old legends of vampires, which have to be invited into your home before they can cross the threshold. (1:38:28)

And with the women, excuse me, with the black-eyed kids, their skin is very similar, very pale. But of course, the overriding thing that freaks most of the witnesses out are these solid black eyes that these kids, if they are kids, have. And they constantly try and find ways into the house. We're lost. Can we use the telephone? We're homeless. (1:38:55)

Can you give us some food? But it all revolves around them trying to find a way inside rather than keep the conversation going on the doorstep. Now, fortunately, most people don't let them in when they see these sort of black eyes. They just freak out and shut the door. But there have been several reports where they did enter the home. (1:39:14)

And I talk about these in the book as well. And what's interesting is that in two of these cases, we had exactly the same thing that people reported with the men in black, that when the black-eyed children were in the home and staring at them and just saying things like, food, we need food, they started to feel ill as well. (1:39:39)

They started to feel weak and tired as if they were almost, you know, going into like a an anesthetic type state, you know, as if they could barely stay awake. They had no energy. (1:39:47)

They started to get the shakes. And again, so this, you know, creates this image of somehow these entities literally kind of preying on us. And there have been cases as well, when they've got in the house or they've been right by the door, and the family dog has reacted in a very sort of hostile, or in some cases, terrified response, as if the animals, the dogs, can pick up some sort of energy or vibe from them that demonstrates that for the dogs, you know, they're clearly not normal children. These kids truly come across as being evil, I think. (1:40:31)

Oh, well, yeah, that's a good point, because nearly everybody, if not everybody who sees them, gets that kind of creepy, weird vibe from them. And it's like the whole thing is staged, you know, there's no real intent. Can we use the telephone? And, you know, they're clearly not just there for food. (1:40:58)

The whole thing is like stage managed. It's like a piece of theater that is played out with the one, the one prime role to get into the home. And but it's interesting, you know, that they don't force their way in, they wait to be invited. And if they don't get the invite, they're sort of this frustrated look, and they leave. So you know, you hope they leave. (1:41:17)

You hope they leave. Yeah, so it's a very kind of a weird phenomenon, which has, as I said, overtones with parallels with the old vampire legends. And as I said, the very deep similarities between all three categories, men in black, women in black, black-eyed kids in terms of the skin, clothing color, coming out late at night. (1:41:47)

And also, just like with the men in black, people who've had the black-eyed children in their home, they too talk about this weird vibe, as if some sort of residual negative energy has been left behind. I actually interviewed David Weatherly for the book, because David had some really interesting cases, which he shared with me, where people have been reading about the black-eyed children, and they had started to experience weird electrical problems in the home, which, you know, as I talked earlier about how that happened in relation to the men in black. (1:42:23)

And those black-eyed children readers, so to speak, also felt that somehow reading about them was inadvertently inviting them into their space as well. Well, I gotta tell you, if you don't let them in, what are the dangers? What's the downside later? I mean, do they sneak in, or do they simply leave and go to the next place? Yeah, that's what it seems to be, George. They sort of just move on, and I said for the most part... Or disappear or something. (1:42:57)

Well, actually, yeah, I mean, disappear is a better word, because in most of these cases of all three categories, when they leave the house, then the person suddenly starts to sort of break out of this almost a hypnotic state that they've been plunged into. They run to the front door, and not only are these entities gone, but they've gone almost impossibly quickly for normal people. (1:43:31)

People have sort of raced to the front door and literally almost followed them out, and there's nowhere in sight. Clearly, there was no car there. They sort of ran down the driveway, scanned the street. No one at all. It literally seems in many of these cases that they manifest, which is probably the right word to use, they manifest at the front door, and they literally dematerialize at the door. (1:44:00)

And there are just sort of on that angle in relation to the men in black, there are some cases where the witnesses have seen them get into like an old 1950s era black car, but then the car suddenly vanishes. And by vanishes, I mean literally vanishes as if it was almost some kind of a almost like a sophisticated hologram or something along those lines. (1:44:26)

So that angle of them leaving and moving on is very weird, because as I said, it occurs almost impossibly quickly. The great paranormal investigator and writer back in 1966, John Keel, wrote a story of an encounter with the Grinning Man. This is one scary looking guy, right? (1:44:43)

Yeah, well, again, the Grinning Man is sort of like a subcategory of the men in black. The Grinning Man, again, for the most part, wears this black suit, white shirt, skinny black tie, sometimes an old-style fedora, but sometimes not. But he has this sort of pale skin, but the thing that really stands out for people is this weird grin that he has on his face. Constantly, apparently, right? (1:45:11)

Yes, and it's almost like frozen, you know, in time, so to speak. His face does not change, but it's not like a friendly, inviting smile. It's sort of the smile that something like an axe murderer would have, you know, something along those lines, like a psychotic, dangerous smile. And the phenomenon really began in the 60s with an entity actually not too far from Point Pleasant, West Virginia, a character who called himself Injured Cold, which sounds like some sort of creepy Charles Dickens novel-type character, but Injured Cold was this figure that a number of people reported seeing. (1:46:02)

And since then, there have been more and more reports of this creature called the Grinning Man. I've got several cases in the book of Grinning Man-type stories. A family from California, the Maxwell family who I interviewed, and they told me how they'd had a UFO experience. And they did sort of like a road trip up to San Francisco and back down to L.A. and then down to San Diego. And the day after they got home, the daughter happened to open the front door and saw on the other side of the street, and bear in mind, you know, it was sort of blistering temperatures, this skinny guy staring back at her. (1:46:44)

(2025-06-12)