Philip Mantle : 100万ドルで「Ray Santilli の ET 解剖動画」を購入したいという話があった

November 8, 2024 · 103 min read

前置き

Phil Mantle が証言している。

関連して、彼は自分が工場勤務者だと語っている。

該当箇所

全部で5本のフィルムがある。映像が10本、解剖フィルムが2本、残骸とカメラマンのインタビューだ。だから、エイリアンの検死フィルムについて話すと、全部で5つのフィルムになる。 4本はスピロスが作った。1本はキース・ベイトマンが作った。そして、延々と続くんだ。 (0:57:06)

先週、文字通り突然レイ・サンティリからメールを受け取った。彼が何について話しているかは明かせないが、素晴らしいものではないよ。でも、それが届いたんだ。彼にメールしたことはなかった。彼と話したこともなかった。彼のことを考えたこともないんだ。彼に危害を加えたいとは思っていない。それに... いや、あなたからは、あなたが関与しているように感じられるけど、それが本物かどうか知りたかったんでしょう。 (0:57:31)

ただ... 彼を傷つけようとはしなかった、でも... いや、ある日サンティリと話をしたんだ。ランチに行ったんだ私は彼とロンドンにいた。レイ、私はこの映画の真相を突き止めるつもりだ。それが何であろうとね。そしたら彼は、いいよ、フィリップと言ったんだ。だから決して...。個人的なことではないんだ。個人的な感情はなかった。 (0:57:52)

何人かはそうでした。私が関わっていると非難する人もいた。私は... 私はサンティリの共謀者だった。そのいきさつを話そう、スティーブ。私は結婚して2人の子供がいる。俺と妻は家を増築したその金は君の共謀者からもらったに違いない。そうだ。 (0:58:13)

フィリップ・マントルは工場で働いている。そんな金をどこで手に入れてる？サンティリからだろう彼らは聞くのを忘れた俺の金じゃない。妻の金だ。彼女は私たちが出会う前から自分の財産を持っていた。それを売ったんだ。その家の収益の一部を使ったんだ。まあ、それ以外にもね、女性はお金をため込むものだろ？ (0:58:39)

本当にそうだ。妻には本当に感謝している。何か大きな緊急事態が起きた時、例えば暖炉の交換が必要になった時、お金がそこにあるんだ。妻がどうやってそれをやりくりしているのかわからないけど、お金をためているんだ。家を引っ越すか、増築するか。安いほうの選択肢は増築だった。しかもそれは妻のお金であって、私のお金ではなかった。 (0:59:00)

でもね、このバカどもは、ああ、彼はサンティリから何十億ももらってるに違いないって言うんだ。サンティリが私に支払ったのは、彼のドキュメンタリーを書くことだけだった。私は彼のドキュメンタリーを書いた。彼のドキュメンタリーを書いたのは私だ。それだけだ。そのために少額の報酬をもらったんだ。 (0:59:26)

お金の話をしたことすらなかった。彼が私たちの会議でそれを見せたとき、お金の話は一切しなかった。ただ握手しただけ。それだけだった。驚いたよ。スティーブ、彼が現れてからが歴史なんだ。というのも、最近またこの件がニュースになっているからです。サンティリはこの件がすべて捏造だったとは認めていませんよね？ (0:59:57)

そして彼は、あれは再現で、オリジナルのフィルムは持っていると主張している。そして彼の最新の主張は、本物のフィルムの1フレームをNFTとして売っているということです。それについて、何が起こったのか教えてください。何があったのですか？スピロスはエイリアンの解剖フィルムの著作権を主張した。というのも、あなたがテレビで見ているのは、彼らが実際にお金を使い果たして作った2本目のものだったからです。スピロスはそれを撮影しただけでなく、スタッフの人件費も払った。 (1:00:36)

彼は自分のポケットからその費用を支払った。それなら、あの映像は自分のものだという正当な主張があると思う。だから、彼はその著作権を主張した。だから、サンティリがそのフレームを売りに出したとき、実はそれはスピロスの著作権なんだ。彼は会社に連絡して、いや、それは僕の著作権だ。販売することはできないよ。だから彼らはそれを取り下げたんだ。 (1:00:54)

でもその後、サンティリはまたそれをアップして、またダウンさせた。彼は売らなかったんだよ。彼は100万ドルの見返りを求めていたんだろう？彼は基本的にそれが最後の砦で、サンティリを引退させるつもりだと言っていたのを聞いたよ。ええ、彼はまだビジネスを続けていますよ。 (1:01:11)

それは知っている。でも、こんなことになるずっと前から、つまり、もう何年も前の話になるんだけど、スティーブ。アメリカで何人かの紳士が、サンティリから100万ドルでフィルムを買いたいと連絡してきたんだ。私は言ったよ、「これは偽物だ」とね。これは偽物だ。彼らはフィルムのリール全体を手に入れられると思っているんだ。 (1:01:42)

「エイリアン」、「検死」、「ファクト・オア・フィクション」に出てくるようなものが手に入ると思っているんだ。私は、たとえそうだとしても、それはまだ偽物だと言ったんだ。実際、それは入手可能だ。でも撮影されたのは1995年で、1947年ではないんだ。人を騙すためにフィルムを古くすることはできないんだ。だから、ありがたいことに、サンティリはどのみち売らなかっただろう。なぜなら、彼らがそれを手に入れたら、それを検査することができ、偽物であることがわかるからだ。 (1:02:06)

だから私は言ったんだ、彼に近づくなと。それは偽物だ。それで、ありがたいことに、彼らはそうしなかった。でもサンティリは、もし彼が手に入れたら、また突然、スティーブからメールが来て、映画『エイリアン』、ミュージカル『オートプシー』はどうかって言うんだ。ああ、ミュージカルにするつもりなんだ。 (1:02:29)

儲け話だ。サンティリはちょっと貪欲なんじゃないかと思うんだ。彼が大金を手にすることができたのは、純粋に騙すことによってだったんだ。もし彼が正直にこう言っていたら、何百万ドルも稼げなかっただろう。 (1:02:54)

彼はそんなお金を稼げなかったでしょう。だから彼は騙してお金を稼いだんだ。そしてその金を持ってしても、彼にはまだ足りない。彼はまだもう一回現金化しようとしている。もちろんだ。その方法を見つけたら、彼は必ずやる。私が保証する。もし彼がドキュメンタリーを撮ったら......そう、スピロスが......彼とスピロスが......。ごめんなさい. (1:03:18)

変な名前だ。うまく言えないんだ。いつもそうなんだ。スピロスじゃなくてスピロスって言っちゃう。だから君にするよ、だって君だから。そうだね。もし彼とスピロスが一緒になって、ドキュメンタリーを作ったら、それに携わっていた人たち、スピロスの妹、彼のクルー、みんなを連れてきて、その話をすれば、おそらく100万ドルは稼げるでしょう。なぜなら、それは世界中の一般大衆にこれまでに行われた最大のデマの一つだからです。 (1:03:46)

そうだ。世界最大のデマだと思う。つまり、デマについて考えるなら、ヒトラーの日記がありますよね。 (1:03:54)

動画(1:47:07)

Steven Cambian interviews Phillip Mantle of flying disk press.

動画概要欄

1,200 views 2022/07/22

Steven Cambian interviews Phillip Mantle of flying disk press.

この購入希望者（アメリカ人）は、たぶん趣味の蒐集者ではなく、映像権による持続的な収益を見込んでいたのだろう。

この手の UFO/ET 絡みの買い漁りは、とある日本人資産家も手を出していて、いくつもの偽物を掴まされている。

おまけ：全文文字起こし： FasterWhisper AI(large-v2 model)

▼展開

Greetings and salutations, friends, and welcome back. This is going to be a rare early edition of Truthseekers, and we have done that to accommodate our guest today because there is something like a six-hour difference. And our friend from across the pond, Philip Mantle, is here. We didn't want to make him do an interview at, you know, 3 or 4 a.m. his time, which would be our usual broadcast time. So we're doing today's special early broadcast. (0:01:22)

It is rare that we get someone of Mr. Mantle's caliber. He's an incredible author, and I have just finished one of his books. And I just want to mention that I love it when I find a really good author that has written many books. I have digested the first one, which is on a subject that I love, which is the Roswell alien autopsy. (0:01:49)

His book, The Truth Behind the Film That Shocked the World, is an incredible journey into one of the greatest UFO frauds of all time. And it was just amazing to me to see the inside baseball. You know, Mr. Mantle covered the entire thing, and you get to see some of what happened behind the scenes and hear exactly how they put this thing together. (0:02:20)

And in my view, how they perpetrated a fraud against all of us. I grew up with that story. I always wanted it to be true. And a lot of people felt that way. But Mr. Mantle has done an incredible amount of research into the characters involved, into the entire story. And of course, his book, The Roswell Alien Autopsy, The Truth Behind the Film That Shocked the World, is available on Amazon. Just search for his name, Philip Mantle. But it's not just that book. (0:02:50)

He's got some more recent books, including one all about UFO landings in the UK. So let's welcome him here. Oh, one second. Let me do something here. We have to fix our background. There we go. Okay. Welcome, Mr. Mantle. Good to see you. Good to have you here. Good evening, Steve. Please call me Philip. Okay, Philip. Yeah. Okay, great. So, listen, I don't even know where to begin because you have been into this thing for a long time. (0:03:16)

But I do want to ask you, because I ask everybody, you've written all these books. You've been obsessed by some of this stuff, like me, for years, decades. What was it that got you started down the rabbit hole? Yeah, good question. I mean, you know, going back to when I was a youngster, Steve, and certainly as a teenager, I was always interested in all things paranormal. (0:03:41)

I was fascinated by astronomy. You know, I followed the space race. I mean, you know, we just celebrated the first moon landing. I remember that. I was 11 at the time. And I loved horror movies as well. And literally, when I was about 13 or 14, I lived in an area in West Yorkshire. It's in the north of England, just outside of the city of Leeds. And my best friend's grandma used to live just over the street from us. (0:04:13)

And I used to go with her to the local spiritualist church. And I found it fascinating. I didn't necessarily agree with everything they were claiming, but, you know, I was fascinated by it. And I was always the type of kid at school that would stick his hand up and ask the dumb questions that the teacher didn't want you to ask in the first place. (0:04:31)

You know, I always wanted to know things. If there's a button that said, don't press, I wouldn't press it. But I want to know what happened if I didn't press it, you know. (0:04:35)

And then I read one astronomy book, which had one chapter in it on UFOs and basically ignoring them or dismissing them. And I found that rather strange. So that lit the fuse. When I left high school with no qualifications, I went from one job to another. And then in late 1978, over the winter into 1979, I went to work in what was called still then West Germany. Couldn't speak the language. (0:05:13)

So I phoned my mom and said, can you send me some books? I just meant any old books, Steve, you know, because I could sit and watch the TV on a night, but I had no idea what they were talking about, you know. So she sent me a box of books all on UFOs. So I would sit there on an evening reading them. So when I came home, I got a bit more knowledge about the subject. (0:05:29)

And then the Spielberg movie came out, Close Encounters. And the city of Leeds then, as now, publishes an evening newspaper. It's called the Yorkshire Evening Post. And my aunt, who lived just around the corner, brought me a copy around one night. She said, have you seen this? And there was a small ad and it was for the formation of the Yorkshire UFO Society coming up that particular Sunday. So I didn't drive in those days. (0:06:02)

I caught the bus into Leeds, found the location that's mentioned in this advert. And there were about 20, 30 people there. And the Yorkshire UFO Society was formed by two brothers. That was Mark and Graham Birdsell. And they put on a presentation because they'd obviously been involved for a few years already. And that was it, Steve. I was hooked. (0:06:30)

I felt I've just arrived at the right place at the right time. I felt like I'd come home kind of thing. And that's how I started. And it all began with the Yorkshire UFO Society. Oh, that's interesting. And it is, isn't it? It's like a comforting feeling when you find other people that are interested in the same strange things you are. You feel a little less alone and a little like you found your place, right? (0:06:52)

Yeah. And they also had a big table selling more books, which was great because they were a rarity, especially where I lived. Yeah, hard to come by, right? Yeah. Yeah. There was no internet in those days, no Amazon. So we had meetings every Sunday, once a month. (0:07:15)

And I went to them all. I paid my membership fee, Steve. I think it was about two pounds, you know, for the whole year. It was about three dollars at the most, you know, and it was worth every penny. And as we fell into the 1980s, again, quite by chance, certain areas in and around the county where I live. (0:07:36)

I'm from Yorkshire. It's split into four now, North, South, East and West. But it used to be just one. I'm in West Yorkshire. And there were areas that had a lot of UFO reports and somehow they managed to find their way to us. (0:07:49)

So, you know, I jumped in with both feet and away we go. Interesting. And when did it become, like, obvious to you that you would begin to write books and do really serious research? I never thought about me writing books. I wasn't a bad writer at school, but it never entered my thoughts. I just wanted to know more. Rather naively, Steve, I thought I'll read a few more books. (0:08:21)

I'll maybe write a few letters to various people and I'll be it. You know, I'll find all the answers that I'm looking for in no time at all. And boy, was I disappointed, you know, it didn't work like that. So we were lucky, as I said, that we had a lot of reports coming from certain areas. So my next best thing was to try and confront the phenomena myself, if that was possible. (0:08:51)

And that was the intention of the organisation as well, was not just to gather data from other individuals that witnessed the phenomena, but to try and be close and personal, see what it is. We saw something at a distance and never got up close and personal to it, but we certainly give it our best shot. And I thought I didn't think this would ever take that long. (0:09:17)

I never crossed my mind to get involved any deeper than I did. But like I said, I just seemed to be in the right place at the right time and things took off. You know, my involvement in the phenomena kind of had a life of its own, Steve. I never really planned an awful lot. I always found that when I try and plan something, so just run with it and see what happens, you know. (0:09:43)

And that's what happened with me joining the Yorkshire UFO Society. And like I say, you know, I don't regret it one iota. Oh, that's very good. And I have put, just for the benefit of everybody watching or listening here, I have put a link to Amazon in the description of the video. I just finished one and I gotta say I'm anxious to get some more of your books. (0:10:10)

But let's get into this alien autopsy, because here in the... was it huge in England too? It was huge around the world, Steve. Yeah. Here in the United States, everybody was talking about it. And for once, I wasn't the dork in the room. Do you know what I mean? People all knew that I was into aliens and UFOs, so everybody was coming to me going, well, you think it's real? And there was like watch parties. (0:10:41)

People had parties to watch it. And then they replayed it so many times, people would have parties and watch it again and debate whether it was real or it was fake or it was a hoax, right? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it was a phenomenon. And again, the people behind the alien autopsy film, people have said, oh, they had a magnificent marketing campaign and all this lot. (0:11:00)

They have no idea what they're talking about. There was no marketing campaign once the genie was out of the bottle. Yeah. That's it ran and they just went with it. And nobody that was involved, including myself, ever thought anything like what what did happen would happen. (0:11:18)

And again, we just had to go with it. You either dropped out of it or you ran with it. And I was right in the middle of it. So I didn't really have a cheek. I've often said this damn film will haunt me to the day I die. You know, and I can't get away from it, whether I wanted to or not. You know, it's just that's it. (0:11:38)

Yeah. And so the the the book was pretty revealing about like some of the characters involved. And and, you know, I've often wondered, like, so do you think it was just intentionally faked or do you believe this? Because the story that we get is, well, we had the real one and then it degraded and it fell apart. (0:12:11)

And that's all that's all. I mean, when we talk about the alien autopsy film, we're actually talking about five different pieces of film. OK, first one is the tent footage. Lasts about eight minutes. It's a creature laying on us on a on a bed or a blanket over it. (0:12:33)

You can see the head and the hands and the feet, too many white coats, the other side of it fiddling with giblets or whatever. And occasionally a man with his back to the camera walks in. It's static is the camera. There's no no soundtrack. That was the first piece of film that Ray Santilli showed to anyone, myself included. (0:12:54)

And he said this was the creature was were recovered in the desert and they put them in a field tent before they were transported elsewhere. So that's the tent footage. Sounds good. Yeah, that's plausible. Right. Yeah. Even that I would question, though, because we had these bodies. Would you just put up a tent for a while and pull them in a tent or would you put them right in a truck and get them to a hospital? (0:13:16)

Well, what I'll say is at this point, I'd already been talking to Ray Santilli for about a year and a half. He kept saying, I'll show you the film. I can't. Yes, I can. No, I can't. So in the end, I told him to get lost and I phoned him up just just off the cuff one day and he said, OK, come down. You know, he's in London. I'm up north. (0:13:41)

I made an appointment with the secretary. My wife and I went down and here at last we had some film and it was pretty poor quality, Steve. But I thought, well, at least I can confirm that film does exist, you know. And so here it was then Ray invited us down again and we viewed two autopsy films. (0:14:07)

So the one you've all seen on Fox, that's one of them. There is another one that is slightly longer. It's the same location, same people, same creature. However, it's not damaged. There's no hole in the leg, etc. Slightly different medical procedure is carried out. And then you have the debris film, you know, the bits of junk that again was shown in bits in Fox. Yeah. Yeah. I can't believe I can't believe how many people have taken stills from that specific wreckage, you know, with the six fingered control panel and all this stuff. It's it's even after this is like this is a hoax. (0:14:43)

It's still in newspapers. It's in articles. It's in blog posts. It's in videos. And people say, here's the proof of the Roswell wreckage. No, no, it's not. Well, then Santilli got hold of an alleged interview with the cameraman that was only ever released on Japanese television. (0:15:01)

But it is available. I have seen it. So there are five separate films in total. And but like you say, images from the alien autopsy film, they are like the go to image now when any any media outlet wants images of Roswell, because there is nothing of Roswell apart from the desert. (0:15:29)

Yeah. So it's it's better than nothing. So, you know, how it all came about in 1993, I was, amongst other things, the press officer for the British UFO Research Association, a national organization here in the UK. And I had a letter and it was from a company called the Merlin Group, just asking if we could assist with the making of a of a UFO documentary. (0:15:50)

So I wrote back, sent them some information and the head of the Merlin Group was Ray Santilli. So yeah, so we exchanged a few letters. This is, you know, before email. And then I spoke to him on the phone. And then out of the blue, Steve, he said, well, Philip, I actually have footage of the Roswell. He called it Roswell to begin with. Crash. And I said, OK, show me. (0:16:20)

You made a bold claim there, you know, out of the blue. Show me. Yeah. And that's amazing. Just just so everybody is clear, like, Philip saw all this stuff before it was on television, before anybody knew about it. He was in on this. What what let me ask you, like, really, what was your reactions to seeing this stuff? Well, like I said, the first film we saw was The Tent Footage. It's really poor quality. (0:16:44)

But what I did, Steve, I asked Santilli, what is your intentions? What are you going to do with this film? And he said, I'm going to make my own documentary and I'm going to release it on video. And you'll be able to buy it from me, you'll be able to buy it in your local video store. There were still video stores then, you know, blockbusters and and so on. (0:17:11)

And he actually did that. So at that point, there was no television involved. I actually wrote the the documentary for him. It was narrated by a famous UK actor called Brian Blessed. And but it was only when it was accidentally leaked to the media that then television became involved in a big way. And you have to remember, this is now 1995. And it was, you know, that the X-Files was probably at its peak, the TV show. (0:17:49)

And this just happened to come out. Santilli didn't release it to the media. That was me. I did. I just slipped up. A friend of mine who was a journalist. Now, what we what we've done, I've done an agreement, just a handshake with Santilli to show it at our conference later that year, August 1995 in Sheffield. And we shook hands. There's no money, no contracts involved. (0:18:13)

And he said, yeah. So a friend of mine in Sheffield, who was a journalist, you may know him now. He's now Dr. David Clark at Hallam University. David rang me and he said, I'm doing a little article for the local newspaper. Give me a quote about your conference for later in the year. So I said, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. (0:18:30)

Oh, by the way, Alien Autopsy Film. And he ran it in the local newspaper. A couple of days later, I got a phone call from a press agency called White's. And all they were interested in was the Alien Autopsy Film. So I told them basically what Ray Santilli had said to me. I just quoted him. And then I wake up on the Sunday morning, you know, my fax machine has been working overtime during the night. (0:19:05)

There were faxes literally from around the world, from television companies from around the world. I kid you not. The phone just went bananas. Oh, look, they can find me in the phone book. But Ray Santilli, London businessman, you know, they couldn't find him. So they came to me and all I did was pass them on to Ray Santilli. I said, look, you know, my film. (0:19:24)

So that's when everything changed, Steve. And when the media became involved, that's when television became involved. On May the 5th, 1995, Santilli hired a theater out at the London Museum and showed the film there to an audience. He even got that wrong because we're expecting all this different stuff we've seen. But we saw one autopsy film, no introduction, no music over it, no narration. (0:19:58)

Unbeknown to us, Ray Santilli and his business partner were in a booth at the back and they were actually got a written down script. And when narrating it down the microphone, they forgot to switch the microphone on. Well, they didn't know that the film had just got, but it didn't matter because there was literally a scrum when the film had finished. Everybody wanted to know everything. (0:20:19)

Ray and his business partner legged it, you know, ran out the back door and I'm stood there thinking, where's everybody gone? And I was literally pinned to the wall by all these journalists with their microphones around me. And I kept saying, you should be talking to Santilli, not me, but he'd gone. And he'd gone to a local pub near his offices. (0:20:44)

And I think that's where the deal may have been done with Fox and Bob Kibia, who was the producer. And that's... Maybe he sat back in a pub and just like, who's the high bidder? Fox, we're going with you. You know what I mean? Well, Bob was there, you know, and it all came from that. And it literally was shown eventually in 1995, in August. Ray did turn up at our conference, Steve, and showed it. (0:21:12)

That was the first time anybody had seen it anywhere, apart from me and a couple of others. And the place was packed. I mean, it was absolutely ram-jam-packed. We had journalists there from around the world. They were too late. Ray had already done a lot of his deals. It went out the next day on Fox. There you go. Alien autopsy fact or fiction. I mean it. I mean that, you know? (0:21:35)

Yeah. And you know what? It seems to me to be this strange connection now, because I watched that so much growing up. And now you're right here. (0:21:43)

Yeah. And you've got the inside baseball of the whole story. Don't you think, though, that... Listen, I'm not encouraging people to fake things or do hoaxes. But one thing I have to say is that they did have a certain attention to detail. In other words, like the phone in the room was from 1947. The clock in the room was somebody, some expert figured out, yeah, that was a 1940s-era wall clock. Like they really went to the mat to try to connect this to Roswell, right? (0:22:19)

There's nothing on the film that you see that can say, you can point to and say, that proves it to be a hoax. Nothing obvious anyway. You know, they weren't wearing a digital watch, for example, or, you know. But I'll give you an example. On the May the 5th screening, which was at the London Museum, an invited audience only, there was a guy at the time who was very involved in Roswell research called Kent Jeffery. And he was an airline pilot. (0:22:47)

And I got Kent a seat at the table, so to speak. He was in the audience. He came running out of the theatre once he'd seen it, saying it's a hoax, we've got him. Because when you see the telephone on the wall, it's got a curly flex. He said they didn't have curly flexes in 1947. And he's shouting this out. (0:23:11)

But of course, when we checked with the museum, they did. You just have to, it was an optional extra that you could pay that bit more for. Yeah, a little bit extra. You get a curly. But that's an interesting detail that he noticed. Absolutely. But Kent Jeffery, you know, shot his mouth off and made himself look a little bit foolish. And although he was very sceptical of the film, he went on to say he thought it was actually some kind of deformed human being that was on the slab. (0:23:42)

So he called it a kind of a snuff movie, if you like. And there were all kinds, you know, so by 95, you got the, you know, the burgeoning internet, nothing like it is today. It was all green screens, you know, the green, all that kind of stuff. (0:24:04)

It was the first UFO argument that went online. It really was. And it went around the world. I mean, I got invited to go here, there and everywhere. And I used to tell people, you know, I don't do this for a living. I have a proper job and I have a wife. Yeah, I can't just fly to your country to talk about this film, right? (0:24:19)

Yeah, I remember being asked to go to Hong Kong, you know, for the weekend. I said, I've got to go to work. I can't just turn up at the airport with my passport and fly to Hong Kong for a couple of days. I was even asked by a like a showbiz promoter to do a presentation all week at a theatre in London, you know, once every evening and twice on Saturday and twice on Sunday. And he offered me a large amount of money. (0:24:50)

And I said, I can't do it. He said, well, why not? I said, I've got to go to work. He believed he was in the audience, you know, watching the presentation. (0:24:56)

He thought this was my job. I said, no, I actually worked in a factory. I was a factory worker and a trade union steward. This was something I did, you know... On the side, yes. This is a side hustle at best, bro. I can't just drop everything and do a show. This thing was so popular that somebody knew that they could get somebody connected to this film to just do a presentation every night and fill a theatre for weeks. (0:25:28)

Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, and, you know, maybe if I'd have had the time, you know, I may have done it, but, you know, it just wasn't possible. I had to go to work. I had a job. So when I met Santilli, I got to know him a little bit. And so I had to make a decision what to do, Steve, because it was quite obvious to me that if you rub Santilli up the wrong way, he would just cut you off. (0:26:02)

He wouldn't return your calls or your faxes or your letters. He did that with Stanton Freedman. Stanton Freedman faxed him a list of demands. And I mean... Oh, I've never heard this, really. I got Stan to speak with Santilli. He wasn't that impressed. So he literally... a list of demands, not requests, not questions, but demands. Well, that was Stan. He was pretty ballsy. (0:26:24)

Well, Santilli just said to me, who the hell is this fella? It's my film. I'll do with it what I want. And he was right in that respect. So I decided that, you know, in public and with Santilli, I would support him. But behind closed doors, I try and get to the bottom of it. And one of the reasons I invited him to speak at our conference was that I hoped that it would get out onto television and then people would be able to see it. (0:26:55)

And, you know, it went far bigger than any of us ever dreamed. But so once it goes out on TV around the world, say if I'm sat there, it's like, right. You know, the information is going to come flooding in. Somebody is going to come forward and say, that's me. I'm one of the actors or yeah, in my studio or I provided the props or maybe the opposite. (0:27:21)

Some guy might step forward and say, oh, my grandfather told me all about this. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I think that was a smart way to play it, because like you said, you don't want to rub Santilli the wrong way, saying you think it's fake. Better to put it out and let somebody else point out. Yeah. Yeah. But the thing was, nobody came forward. I mean, absolutely no one. (0:27:40)

So all we had to go with was the film, as you see it. Santilli promised pieces of film for analysis. Bear in mind where he actually lived was only a short drive to Kodak here in the UK. And I spoke with Kodak and they said, we will analyze any film. We won't comment on what it depicts, but we'll analyze it for its date. (0:28:08)

Don't you think it was a stroke of brilliance, though, to film that on old film stock so that when somebody tested the film, it would date to the right period? I think that was brilliant of them to do that. (0:28:16)

No, no, you're wrong. It wasn't filmed on old film stock. It was filmed on new film stock. Oh, OK. So what did they do? They found old film stock to... Yeah. No, no. What they did, the man who made the film is Spiros Malaris. Yes. He's a filmmaker, a magician, an entrepreneur. And so he used his magician skills. What they did, they went down the market and they literally bought some old 1940s films. (0:28:46)

The one which was a college baseball. And of course, the film has a leader on it. So they cut the leader off it. That's what it is. I'm sorry. It's all right. And they spliced it to the 16 millimeter film. To the modern film. Yeah. And of course, what Spiros did, one so-called specialist that stepped forward to try and analyze the film was Bob Shell in the States. He came to London. So they took the film to his hotel or wherever. (0:29:20)

Won't allow him to touch it. And you know, one of the great things that magicians do is misdirection. Sure, absolutely. I know that all too well. Spiros pulls the film out, holds it up in the air and you can see the creature on it. But he's actually got his finger and thumb over the splice. Yeah. That's interesting. So it's misdirection. (0:29:43)

So you were so excited to see this film. You're just looking to see the creature on it. Then he shows him the edge code on the leader, which is, you know, a black box and a triangle. You check that with Kodak and they say that's our code for 1927, 1947 and 1967. So even that fit, you know. (0:30:04)

So it was a brilliant piece of stagecraft. Yeah, absolutely. And Spiros, who I've got to know very well, he says it's the biggest illusion that's ever been created because there are still people today believe it's real. Yeah. I talked to him a few times and he's a very interesting character. And he is very proud of the fact that he pulled that off, you know, and that's that's a typical magician. (0:30:29)

You got to stand back and marvel at the brilliance to put together an illusion like that. And that's what it was. And it's interesting that even like I remember doctors and people that were very familiar with autopsies and anatomy were looking at that and saying that this looks like a real, you know, real autopsy. (0:30:52)

This does not look like a rubber creature. It doesn't look like it's fake. It looks like, you know. I mean, I spoke to numerous surgeons and pathologists or I wrote to them. Same with special effects artists. They all to a man said, yeah, we can make it. And somebody said, it looks like this fella's work. So I've got the phone number of this guy. (0:31:14)

This is in England. And I ring him up. I said, do you have anything to do with this? And he said, no, but I tell you what, he said, it looks like so-and-so's work. I said, have you got his phone number? He said, yeah. And I'd ring this next chap. And I just went round in circles. It became quite clear that none of them knew who the hell. (0:31:39)

Now Spiros used his friend and he's called John Humphreys. John isn't actually a special effects artist per se. He's a trained Royal Academy sculptor. Yeah. Yeah. So that's where the body came from. Yeah. So his work on occasions had, he had worked in film and television, but he is a sculptor. So he wasn't known in special effects circles. Yeah. It'd be difficult to find him. (0:32:05)

You're looking for a special effects guy that worked in horror movies or something, which is what I would have done. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and, and of course, as a trained sculptor, he was trained in anatomy as well. So he was able to get the anatomical features right. Spiros' girlfriend went through the medical literature to tell about how, how such a procedure would be done. (0:32:31)

And so they, they formed a small team and between them, they, they did it and pulled it off. Now, the reason that our two autopsy films, okay. I remember saying this too, you've all seen one on, on, on TV with a big hole in the leg. (0:32:43)

That's actually the second one. They make the first one and they're looking back on what they've done. And it was Spiros' girlfriend, bearing in mind, she'd gone through the medical literature. She said, that's a mistake. You've made a mistake with the medical procedure. And if you release that, everyone will know it's a fake. So they said, right. The money had run out, they'd spent the budget. (0:33:15)

So Spiros says, I'll, I'll pay the rest. We'll, we've got the, we've got the mold for the, for the creature. We'll make another one overnight. So they pump the stuff in or whatever it is that does. Come back the next morning, they take it out of the mold. There's a problem. There's a big hole in the leg, got an air pocket. So Spiros uses his, his head and they go to the butchers. (0:33:36)

They get an animal bone, they stick it in the leg, get to get the, burn it, make it look like it's an accident. You know, these people have crashed. And that's the one, that's the one you see on the television. So that's the attention, the attention to detail was pretty good. I like how I went to the butcher shop to get my guts and, you know, I have a, I have a really good friend who'd spent all his life working in special effects. (0:34:02)

He was in Australia, sorry, New Zealand when all this happened and now lives in the UK. And I asked him about it. And he said, as a special effects artist, you sometimes make your best work when you've got no budget or things have gone wrong, you know, and you have to improvise, which is exactly what they did. So, so then we move forward in time and all of a sudden changes his story. (0:34:30)

He said, well, the film deteriorated and we had to recreate it, you know. And the reason did that because they had a movie coming out and that was behind the movie, but he calls restore it, Steve, he calls it restoration. He said, we still had a few frames left and we restored it. No. And just to be clear, I know somebody who's very big film buff and he restores some, some film. (0:34:59)

And, and what he does is he takes the original film and through some sort of process cleans it. Sometimes there's dust or hairs on individual frames. He goes through frame by frame and cleans the film. That's restoration, you know, filming it all over again, and then claiming that you put a couple of frames inside the finished restoration is not a restoration. (0:35:23)

It's a... Well, there's another, there's another great mistake in this theory. Let's say you're an art restorer, Steve, and I've got a work of art. I want you to restore. So you do your work on it. However, you wouldn't make another one that was different because we have two alien autopsy films. They're both in the same room, same people, but there's a different procedure. One's damaged, you know, one creature's damaged. (0:35:51)

So Santilli now, he's kind of forgotten about the second one. He kind of says, no, what do you mean? (0:36:00)

There is no second one, but I'm not the only one that saw it. My wife was there with me. Maurizio Baiata from Italy also viewed it. The late... Yes, so you guys saw the prototype before they perfected it, right? Yeah. Yeah. We saw them, we saw them both. So he can't lie, you know, I'm not the only one. But so if you were restoring something, you wouldn't make an extra one just in case you messed up and the extra one's a bit different to the real one, you know? So that's, you know, that's where Santilli's story falls down. (0:36:38)

Big time. And I wanted to ask you, because maybe you know, and you're one of the few people who may know, I was also going to ask this magician this, but I never got a chance to. The original molds, were they destroyed? Or does somebody still have them? Because... No, no, the agreement they had with Santilli was that they'd get rid of everything. There was supposed to be no photographs taken of them making this either. (0:37:01)

But one has survived. We have a Polaroid of John Humphreys with the mold of the creature, you know. But he said, we literally, even the creature, he says, we chopped him up. And we dumped them in various places. So it wasn't like take the creature's body and just dump it all in one place. (0:37:29)

They had to chop it up. That's a shame, because if somebody still had the molds and they could make some, I'd love to have one of those things. Well, I said to Spiros, you sound like you're in the mafia, you know, chopping bits up and dumping the body, you know? Yeah, people don't understand this, but in order for this plan to work, Santilli was right. (0:37:47)

You got to get rid of all the evidence. So they literally, after they filmed this thing, they had to take this fake alien body and chop it up into little pieces. And they put it in dumpsters, I've heard, or places all over England, in pieces. Alien pieces of a fake alien body all over England somewhere. (0:38:13)

Spiros built the set in his sister's flat apartment because she was having it renovated anyway. So it was a bit untidy. So they built it in Camden in London. And that's where you see the alien. What is funny is these are the little stories that, you know, you hear. And Spiros said, we'd made the first creature, we chopped it open, taken all the bits out of it, and we realized we'd done it wrong. We actually left it there on the slab. (0:38:37)

I said, we'll go and set the mold, you know, for the other one, and we'll come back in the morning. When they came back in the morning, the front door was open. They'd actually been burgled. Oh, Jesus, some burglar walked in and saw an alien laying on the table. Spiros at first thought, oh, that's it, game over. (0:39:00)

Then he thought, well, no, a burglar can't go to the police and say, I was breaking and entering this place last night. But he says, can you imagine the face of the burglar when he opened the door and this thing's laying on the slab with its head cut open and its guts cut open and all these giblets all over, you know? Oh yeah, I'd better get out of here before this alien comes back, right? Spiros was able to support his claims. (0:39:27)

I went to his home. He showed me the faxes from Kodak where they told him what edge codes were what. (0:39:32)

And okay, he had a huge dossier of American military vehicles because they intended to build a crash site as well with a UFO in the background, but he just ran out of time and ran out of money. So even Spiros is quite a good artist in his own right. And he... I will tell you this, being a former stage magician, he's incredibly talented. (0:40:03)

And it took... I remember, like, you know, when you see this thing, it takes a magician to construct it because it is... And if nothing else, I respect the guy because he created a beautiful illusion. And he's right. I've done many... I've built many illusions that I used on stage. Never, not one of the things I created ever took off like that. Like, that was crazy. (0:40:25)

Spiros never made any money from it. He said... Yeah, that's unfortunate. Yeah. Well, he said the idea that they had was, we'll release this. And then in maybe six months or a year, we'll do a reveal, you know, to show everybody how clever they were. And maybe they get some more work because he was a little filmmaker at the time. (0:40:50)

John was a struggling sculptor. Ray Santilli kept coming back and saying, well, I paid a lot of money for the tent footage. He didn't. He's still trying to sell that as real to them. They didn't believe him. So he said, I need to make my money back. So they just went off and did their own thing. It was only when the movie came about and they spoke to Spiros and Spiros said, hang on a minute, you know, enough's enough here. You know, it's about time we told the truth. (0:41:18)

He then looked into it and he couldn't believe what happened. People think, well, he must have known what was going on. Well, he didn't. He wasn't in that world. You know, by this time, he's running his own TV studio. He's working around the clock. You know, he's not in the UFO world. And he decides enough's enough. (0:41:47)

He gathered information and he actually phoned a friend of mine called Russell Callahan. Russell used to work on UFO magazine. He had his own little mag out at the time called UFO data. Now I got Spiros' first name from a contact, but Spiros meant nothing. I didn't even know what it was. You know, it meant nothing at all. So Russell says, you phoned the wrong guy. It's Philip you should be speaking to. (0:42:12)

So Russell gave me the guy's phone number and I rang him up and I said, what's your name? He said, Spiros Malaris. As soon as he said Spiros, which is not a common name. Yeah, that is a very uncommon name. That's very interesting. You knew you had him, right? I mean, I have here just by coincidence, the tapes. I actually recorded him on tape. (0:42:36)

In case that was the only chance I got to speak to him. So I'm recording. (0:42:40)

Philip, has anybody heard that? And can I get a copy? Well, I don't know, but... We got to, I'm going to, I'm going to hound you for that because I would love to broadcast that. This is Spiros, you know, and I've got all the missing pieces of the alien autopsy film in my head. I've got, I've got the jigsaw and he's filling in the missing spaces as I'm talking to him. So I said, I'll, I'm making notes. (0:43:11)

I'll come back to you and I'll ask you some more questions. And I did. And then... And isn't it interesting that, listen, the lesson is you got to pay your co-conspirators right, if you're going to do something like this, right? Because wasn't he sort of like, the impression that I got when I spoke to him was that he felt like he didn't get paid enough. (0:43:30)

It wasn't... So he spilled the beans, right? It wasn't necessarily get paid. It was the recognition. He wanted recognition for what he still says is the greatest, you know, illusion ever created. And they were talking about this movie and Spiros said, no, you need to tell the truth now. We didn't plan to defraud anyone to be, or certainly he didn't. Santilli had, you know, once the media got involved, the pound signs were rolling. (0:44:02)

Like I said, again, Steve, it just took off. Yeah. It was like a snowball rolling down the hill and it just got bigger and bigger. I mean, Santilli always admitted his intention was to make money from it, but he alone, he would admit he couldn't, it won't tell you how much he's earned, but he's earned millions. You know, he would never admit that, you know, that that was his intention. (0:44:28)

He thought it was going to make millions. He didn't. He was just going to sell it on home video. That was his original intention. And he made that home video. I wrote it for him. Like I said, you know, and people bought it. I've got copies of it, you know? Yeah. I don't, I don't believe that I've ever seen that. (0:44:47)

I would like to, I would like to see that just for the history sake. So, so, you know, Because that was sort of the first release and then they went big with Fox and... Well, it was so big on Fox. They had to make two more specials. I remember. Yeah. You know, and... Yeah. And they sort of milked it because the first one did so well for them ratings wise. (0:45:08)

I think that they brought, let's bring in some more experts and talk about it some more and do two more. Yeah. Yeah. And then of course there was the video sales afterwards. Santilli had part of those. Yeah. I remember buying it on. I remember buying the video because I wanted to watch. And then it was early, you know, it was the nineties. (0:45:29)

So I took it to a friend who had Amiga video toaster and he did early digitizer and he digitized for me just the autopsy portions and cut out all the people talking. And I watched that thing on loop, you know, I remember that. (0:45:44)

I've actually got it on high resolution beta cam as well. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. And I have that then transferred onto a CD, a DVD prop, sorry. And I mean, it even went to Russia, Saudi Arabia and Asia. Yeah. It went everywhere. And you still, I mean, it ingrained itself in popular culture, Steve. It was in the Simpsons, you know, Seinfeld. The X-Files did their own version. And then there was that sort of a Hollywood, there was that sort of movie about it. (0:46:22)

And it was the movie. That was a very good movie. That was a very good movie. I thought it was enjoyable to watch. It's not bad, but it's nowhere near the truth. The only truthful thing in that whole movie is the way it spiraled out of control and they just raked in the money. They just took the money and went with it. (0:46:39)

That's about the only... Yeah. Oh, but back to Spyrus. So you started talking to him and he starts spilling the beans. Is that where the story starts to fall apart? Well, it was already falling apart. We'd found the guys that made the whole genesis of the Alien autopsy film started with a company called MK Music. And that was for Mick and Keith. And what Santilli used to do, his main business was music. (0:47:15)

He'd buy 60s and 70s pop artists. He'd buy their back catalogs and... or he would hire groups that were famous in the 60s or 70s and reform them and sing some of their songs again. So he was a buyer and seller and things like this. And he used to work with MK Music. I said MK, sorry, it's AK, Andy and Keith. And they used to make a number of things, including karaoke videos. (0:47:45)

So they used to meet and have little silly brainstorming sessions, you know, just a bit of a joke. And Santilli said, wouldn't it be great if we had some Roswell footage? Now, one of the guys working for Keith, a chap called Keith Bateman, he happened to have a UFO book and in it is Roswell. So Keith, I mean, Keith is a lovely, lovely guy. (0:48:16)

He's called Keith Bateman. He's got a wicked sense of humor, Steve. You'd love him. I mean, when I met him and interviewed him, I've never stopped laughing all day. So Keith and his colleagues went to a farm. The head of the alien is made from, you know, one of the polystyrene heads you put a wig on. Yes. Yes. I'm very familiar with those wig forms. (0:48:39)

He put his son under the sheet, put an old sheet. It's filmed in a barn. He got himself and another, sorry, one of his colleagues and another fellow to put a white coat on. They played the doctor. And the guy you see walking in front of the camera, he's actually the farmer. That's interesting. And they made this tent footage. Originally, it is in color. (0:48:59)

Oh, that's interesting. (0:49:02)

Yeah, they ran it through the computer, turned it into black and white. Yeah, because it being in color kind of busts that it wasn't in the 1940s then. They put scratches on it and what have you. Keith took it to Ray Santilli, said, here, have a look at this. And Santilli said, that's not good enough. Go away and get me a quote for how much it would cost to make some real good stuff. (0:49:26)

And Keith did that. And he'd come back with a quote, but maybe 30,000, 40,000 pounds. Santilli said, I'll forget it. You know, it's too much. Yeah. But what he did, he kept the tent footage and he used that as the idea of then being implanted in Santilli's head. I've got Roswell footage, even though it's fake. Yeah. He showed it to Reg Presley. Reg Presley was the lead singer of the Troggs, 1960s pop group, wild thing, you know, love is all around, all that. (0:49:57)

Reg was a big, you know, crop circle and UFO fan. And so he used that as bait. Now, in 1995, every year they have a TV festival in France. It's called MIPCON or something like that. So you have Spiros Melaris, who's got his own little film crew. He got a trade directory with all different businesses and he sent them a fax saying, I'll be in Cannes at MIPCON with a crew if we've got some spare time. (0:50:32)

If you need anything filming, we're there. Just by chance, one of those companies he sent the fax to was the Merlin Group. I mean, he did that on purpose because they were close to where, you know, his location was. He bumped into Santilli in France. Santilli told him this strange story about this film he got from this military cameraman. Spiros had no idea what the hell he was talking about. (0:50:57)

So when he come back, he said, I'll link up with you. So he goes to Santilli's office, sticks in the film, the tent footage, and Spiros says, it's a fake. It's never been on film. This is video. This was shot on video because it was. It was all video. Oh, OK. And Spiros was familiar enough with filmmaking to know it wasn't shot on film. (0:51:18)

Yeah, Spiros is one of those guys who used to shoot his own little films as a kid, you know? Yeah. And he said, you know, Santilli's saying, oh, I paid a lot of money for this, which he didn't. You know, he didn't. And so Spiros is driving back home and he knows his pal, his best, one of his best pal at the time is the sculptor John Humphreys. And it's like, yeah, we can do better than that. (0:51:48)

Right. That's what he told me when he saw that original footage. He thought, there's no way I can't do better than that. So he had a word with John that went back to Santilli and said, we can do this for you. (0:52:01)

And we can make this. And this is how much it will cost. Santilli didn't have the money. He borrowed it from his business partner, Volker Spielberg. So this is where you got rumors floating around in 1995 that Steven Spielberg was involved. It wasn't Steven Spielberg. It was Volker Spielberg, a German film guy. Nothing to do with Steven. But interesting connection. Yeah. Yeah. So neat coincidence, right? (0:52:30)

They signed a contract. They said they wouldn't release any information, say anything, do anything. And off they went and made it. And the rest is history. It really is. But it still goes on to this very day, Steve. You know, there's people... There are still people. Listen, there is a Facebook group and it's like all about the alien autopsy. And I've spoken with the person that runs it, and he's still convinced that that's real footage. (0:52:57)

And no amount of, you know, telling things or explaining things or quoting from your book or other, you know, debunks of it will convince him. He's absolutely convinced that it's real footage. And if there's some kind of cover up, they made Santilli say it was fake, you know, because it got too popular. You know, one of the questions I wanted to ask you about was this cameraman interview. (0:53:22)

Wasn't that a mistake? Because the story starts falling apart. Suddenly they interview somebody and say this was the cameraman. But can you tell us more about that interview? Yeah, yeah. That's an interesting part of the story. I mean, you know, I mean, now the film's gone out around the world. Santilli says, I bought it from this cameraman. I paid cash, you know, and I'm not allowed to reveal his name. (0:53:46)

He needed the money for his granddaughter's wedding or whatever. He gave out a number of fake names for him. And so he was under pressure to deliver more. You know, I mean, this was big money they were talking, Steve. Yeah. And he even got a guy to ring me one night. He said, the cameraman's going to ring you, Philip, at home this time. (0:54:12)

I can't remember the date now. And that's interesting. The phone, the phone rings. There is an American sounding gentleman on the other end of the phone, not telling me an awful lot, but he claimed to be the cameraman. And so again, Santilli gets hold of Spiros. We need a, we need a cameraman's interview. And they actually went to Los Angeles with Santilli's business partner, Gary Shewfield, who was there but didn't have anything to do with it. (0:54:42)

Spiros found an old guy on the street, literally living rough. This is why I love this story. Basically, they took a homeless man and paid him and gave him a script and told him to answer these questions. Yeah. And they said, do you want to earn a couple of hundred dollars and spend the night in a hotel? So they spruced him up a little bit. (0:55:05)

They put him a fake nose on just for the sake of it. (0:55:07)

And TV producer Bob Kivia had sent a list of questions. Okay. So they just wrote the answers out for this guy. And he just sits there and an old boy with glasses on and reads, reads the answers. And just by chance, this guy had actually been an actor back as a young fella. He's actually called Moose Carlson. And Spiros even found one of the movies that he was in. (0:55:40)

You know, he got a little clip from it. That's pretty interesting that they actually hand deliver it to Bob Kivia. They make him fly from New York, I believe, to somewhere. I don't know if it was L.A. And they claim that it's the cameraman's son is handing over the interview. And, you know, Bob knew the game was up. He said, this is all, you know, nonsense. (0:56:10)

Yeah. Yeah. And the funny thing was, this was now filmed on video. Not on film. So you get a copy of this, you stick it in your video recorder, and you can turn the contrast up and the brightness. You can see the man's face, you know. So the only place it was sold to was a TV company in Japan. So that's the only place that anyone would broadcast it. (0:56:37)

The game was up as far as sales were concerned. It just didn't hold water. And that was, you know, that was the end. So there's five films in total. There's, you know, 10 footage, two autopsy films, the debris and the cameraman's interview. So when we talk about the alien autopsy film, it's five films in total. And four were made by Spiros. One was made by Keith Bateman. And, you know, it just goes on and on and on. (0:57:06)

I literally out of the blue received an email from Ray Santilli last week. I can't disclose what he's talking about, but it's nothing fantastic, you know. But it was on. I hadn't emailed him. I hadn't spoken to him. I haven't even thought about him, you know. I don't wish him any harm. And... No, I get the sense from you that you were involved, but you wanted to know if it was real or not. (0:57:31)

Well, I just... You weren't trying to hurt him, but... No, I sat down with Santilli one day. We went for lunch. I was in London with him. And I said, Ray, I'm going to get to the bottom of this film. Whatever that may be. And he just said, that's fine, Philip. You know, so it was never... It was never personal. You know, I didn't let it get personal. (0:57:52)

Some people did. Some people accused me of being involved in making it. You know, I was... I was Santilli's co-conspirator. I'll tell you how that came about, Steve. Bear in mind, I'm married at this point with two young kids. Me and my wife built an extension on our house. The money must have come from your co-conspirator-ness. There you go. (0:58:13)

Philip Mantle works in a factory. Where does he get that kind of money? It must have come from Santilli. Well, they forgot to ask. It wasn't my money. It was my wife's money. She'd had her own property before we met. She now sold it. And we used some of the proceeds from that house. Well, besides that, you know, women have a way of squirreling money away, don't they? (0:58:39)

They really do. You know, I'm so thankful for my wife. When we have some kind of major emergency, like the furnace needs to be replaced, there's just... the money is there. And I don't know how she does it, but she squirrels it away. It was either move house or build an extension. And the cheaper option was to build the extension. And it was my wife's money, not mine. (0:59:00)

But, you know, these idiots said, oh, he must be getting paid zillions by Santilli. The only thing Santilli paid me for was to write his documentary, which I did. I wrote his documentary. I provided him with contacts where he could buy license interviews for it and things like that. And that is it. You know, I got a small amount of money for that. (0:59:26)

We never even talked about money. There was no, you know, when he showed it at our conference, there was no money involved. You know, we just shook hands on it. And that was it. Much to my amazement, I might add, but he did. He turned up, you know, and the rest is history, Steve. I do want to ask you, too, about this, you know, because recently this has been in the news again because he's... so Santilli has never admitted that it was all faked, right? (0:59:57)

And he's claiming that it was a recreation and he did have the original film. And his latest claim is that he's selling one frame of the real film as an NFT. Can you tell us about that and what happened with that? Well, what happened? Spiros claimed copyright of the alien autopsy film. Because the one you see on television was the second one they made that actually run out of money. So not only did Spiros film it, he paid for the crew and, you know, the body and the alien. (1:00:36)

He paid for that out of his own pocket. I think he's got a valid claim, then, that he owns that footage. So he claimed the copyright of it. So when Santilli put a frame of it up for sale, it's actually Spiros' copyright. And he contacted the company and said, no, that's my copyright. You can't sell it, you know. So they took it down. (1:00:54)

But then Santilli would put it up again and take it down again. He didn't sell it, you know, he didn't sell it. And he was looking for like a million dollar payoff, right? I heard him basically say that would be his last hurrah and he was going to retire Santilli. Yeah. I mean, he still runs his business. (1:01:11)

I know that. But long before all this, I mean, we're talking years ago now, Steve. There were a couple of gentlemen in the States who contacted me, wanted to buy the film from Santilli for a million dollars. And I said, don't guys, it's fake. You know, it is fake. And they're thinking they're going to get this whole reel of film, not just a couple of frames or a frame. (1:01:42)

They're thinking what you see on, you know, Alien, Autopsy, Fact or Fiction, that all that is available. And I said, well, even if it was, it's still fake. And in fact, it is available. But it was filmed in 1995, not in 1947. And you can't age the film to con people, you know. And so thankfully, Santilli wouldn't have sold it anyway. He couldn't, because once they got it, they would be able to have it tested and it would be fake. (1:02:06)

So I said, don't don't go anywhere near him. You know, it is a fake. And so thankfully, they didn't. But Santilli is still, if he gets one, I mean, out of the blue, again, it's going back some got an email from him, Steve, saying, how about Alien, Autopsy, the movie, sort of the musical. Oh, God, they're going to make a musical out of it. (1:02:29)

Talk about cashing in. And, you know, some of me, though, thinks that Santilli is a little bit greedy because he's already made he's already made so much money off of this. And it was purely through deception that he was able to make that money. You know, nobody would have he would have made millions if he would if he would have been honest and said, hey, you know, well, we just made this in somebody's flat, you know, with the sculptor and this and that. (1:02:54)

He wouldn't have made that money. So he made the money through deception. And even after all that money, it's not enough for him. He's still trying to cash out one more time. Absolutely. And if he finds a way of doing it, he'll do it, Steve. I guarantee it. Well, I have often thought that if he if he did a documentary completely coming clean and saying, yes, Spiros, you know, him and Spiros to Spiros. I'm sorry. (1:03:18)

It's a weird name. It's hard to say it right. I always do that. I say Spiros, not Spiros. So I'll go with you because you. Yeah. So if he and Spiros got together and did a documentary and bring in everybody that was working on it, Spiros' sister, his crew, and all just tell the story that would make a million probably because it's one of the greatest hoaxes that has ever been perpetrated on the on the public in the world. (1:03:46)

Right. I think I think it is the world's greatest hoax. I mean, if you think about hoaxes, you know, you've got the Hitler diaries, you know, that was a great one. (1:03:54)

I remember that one. That was great. You got Piltdown Man going back, you know, and but this purely monetary value, purely on the amount of money it made, you know, must be the world's greatest hoax. Then it went into a Warner Brothers movie as well. It is firmly implanted in popular culture. The Hitler diaries aren't, you know, the hoax, you know, Loch Ness monster photographs are not. But this damn thing is and it crops up everywhere. (1:04:22)

It's the go to pictures. You know, I knew a guy who run a picture library at the time, and he said, I signed up with it with a picture library, Philip. I said, not that I know of. Why? He said, well, he's going to lose a lot of money. People are just taking it under their use. He said if he signs up with a picture library and signs a contract, our lawyers will hunt everybody down and they either pay the fee or they get fined. (1:04:51)

Yeah. And Philip, I don't know if you're aware, but it wasn't just there was copycats that came out after. There was one that we busted really badly called Alien Interview, which was reported to be a video that was stolen out of Area 51. And it's got what I believe is a puppet. And we weren't I wasn't able to find the puppeteer, but I was able to find a crew member that filmed it and said, yes, it was a puppet. (1:05:18)

We filmed it. They filmed that in a garage. Yeah, that was also on Fox. And then the interesting thing is the character, Victor, who was supposed to be the one who stole it out of Area 51, you know, they put him in shadow. And it's so interesting that the person asking him the questions and the voice of Victor, once you take the voice disguise off, are the same person. (1:05:41)

He's interviewing himself about stealing the thing. And we've traced it to the producer of that being the voice. And he wouldn't grant us an interview. He also created that film Teen Wolf besides this Alien Interview. And so but they didn't they didn't make anywhere near as much money, but it still enabled the Alien Autopsy was so popular that Fox started looking and other opportunists said, let's do something similar. (1:06:11)

Oh, yeah. Cash in, you know, but nobody was quite as successful as that. No, there are lots there are lots of copycats, most of which were done for a bit of fun. But you could buy Alien Autopsy, the board game, Alien Autopsy Operation. You know, that's interesting. I never saw that. But I've got some of them here. Even even today, there is a modern version of it coming out. (1:06:37)

It's not that long ago. I mean, I know you guys in the States, you celebrate Halloween in a big way. You could buy Alien Autopsy cakes for Halloween. And when you cut them open, all the blood run out like the creature on the slab. (1:06:54)

You know, and they're missing a business opportunity. They should get royalties from the cake companies. Well, I'm only surprised that Santilli didn't go down that route. I don't know what happened. But, you know, there must have been a miscommunication somewhere along the line. But there's even Alien Autopsy, the magic trick that you can buy. I think it's a pack of cards. I don't know what it is. (1:07:18)

I've seen it. Yeah, you're right. So I've got a couple of models that were built of it, you know, so it spawned a little cottage industry as well. And that's why probably Santilli will never get sued for fraud because everybody he sold it to or licensed it to or made their own money out of it. I mean, can you imagine how much money Fox will have made out? (1:07:41)

Yeah, there was an interesting question in the live chat. I know that you don't have exact numbers, but do you have some idea or estimate of how much money in total Santilli made off of this thing? It's in the millions, at least. It's millions. It's 10 million plus. Wow. You know, because... Me and you ought to find some old film stock. We really should find some old film stock and a sculptor, because 10 million dollars is 10 million dollars. (1:08:08)

Yeah. And, you know, I don't think we'll ever know. Here's a little coincidence for you, right? In the middle of all this, you know, I'd taken ill. I had a heart attack in 1999. So I had to... Sorry to hear that. It's okay. I had to come out of work. Well, you look great today. And congratulations for... So I had to leave the factory. (1:08:30)

And I ended up working for a lady by the name of Heather. And she ran a small little publishing venture from her offices at the back of her home. And I was working for her. And she knew of my involvement in all this, especially the alien autopsy. And she said to me and the other guys that worked there, my boyfriend's coming today. Now, we'd never seen him with a man. (1:08:55)

Anyway, this businessman turns up. We have lunch in the place. And he said, Philip, you know, Heather's been telling me about your involvement in the alien autopsy films. Yeah. Now, this guy was a trained barrister. Okay. But he'd never worked at what called the bar. So he'd never worked in court with a funny wig on and all that lot. He says, I actually do contracts. Contractual law is my specialty. (1:09:24)

And he literally opened his briefcase, Steve, and pulled out the contract and said, have a look at this. And it was the contract for Ray Santilli and Gary Shewfield for Alien Autopsy, the movie. There was the contract. And he allowed me to he allowed me to read it. I wasn't allowed to copy it. So I crammed as much as I could into my head. (1:09:49)

Later that year, I met Santilli and Shewfield in London, and they sat there, you know, thinking, aren't they wonderful? (1:09:57)

And I told them how much they were going to make on the movie. Oh, that would be a shock to them that you already knew, right? And they didn't know what to say, Steve. And then I played them at their own game. Now, Santilli had a couple of ladies work for him, you know, like secretaries. One was called Sarah, one was called Sandra. I met them all, I chatted to them and I said, you know, Sandra and Sarah don't work for you anymore. (1:10:26)

I had no idea if they did or not, Steve. I had no idea. I just guessed. And I said, I've actually interviewed them and you'll be amazed what they've told me. Now, they hadn't. I hadn't interviewed them at all. So you bluffed them, right? So I played him at his own game. I got these facts right about how much money they're going to make on the movie. (1:10:45)

So I just followed it up. And I said, the only thing is at the moment, guys, they won't allow me to publish what they've said. As soon as they give me the green light, your game is over. And Santilli just laughed it off, saying, oh, the disgruntled employees, you know, and all this kind of stuff. Yeah, he's going to explain it away. Yeah, but you should have seen their face, Steve, when I told them what their cut was on the movie. (1:11:09)

They nearly passed out, you know. And that was all from my boss, who I was working for at the time, and her boyfriend. And I was spot on. The movie came out, you know, and we knew the budget. We knew how much they got to make the movie. We knew the director. We knew everything. I even got in touch with the film company that were making it in London. They were called QWERTY Films. And I got in touch with one of the executives. (1:11:37)

I spoke to her on the phone to begin with, and then we swapped emails. And I know that movie companies will not tell you what they're making. They won't say anything about a project until it's ready to go. So I didn't ask any questions about it. I just did like chit chat. And then one day, I just dropped in a little question. And I said, you might be able to answer this, but I understand if you can't. Who's doing the special effects for you? (1:12:09)

She says, it's John Humphreys. He's making the dummies for us. And he made them a second time. And he made them for Santilli as well. She told me. Yeah, that's interesting. So in the movie, he made the molds again to make a copy of the creature. She told me he made them for us and he made them for Santilli as well. I said, thank you very much. (1:12:34)

And, you know, you know, what's interesting then is that maybe the original that was used in the alien autopsy factor fiction and all that molds aren't available. (1:12:43)

But I bet you that movie company may still have those molds from the movie. Well, John actually had some in his workshop. Oh, that's interesting. Because he made extra heads and things like that. And this was a time that he was still talking in a way. And we found out that his wife had said he had one in the house. You know, get rid of it. (1:13:09)

So I actually offered to buy one from him. I said, because as you can see behind me, I've got a little collection of stuff. Yeah, yeah, that's a big that was this was a big, big story. I'll buy a head if you've got an alien. Because we've got some photographs of him working on these dummies for QWERTY films. We've got pictures of him, you know, in his workshop. (1:13:30)

But he stopped talking. Then I think Santilli said, you know, keep quiet kind of thing, please, John. And he's gone along with that, you know. But I would love to. I would have bought one from him just not to expose anything. See, I've got I've got one, you know, from the movie. It's a collectible from the movie. Yeah, yeah, that's quite it. That would be quite a souvenir. (1:13:52)

I want one, too. So I totally understand. There you go. You know, I want the whole body. I would stand it up in a case. Well, he's got he's got a body because I don't know what year it was. It may be five, ten years ago now. Steve, a Russian film crew came here and they interviewed me about the alien autopsy film. Their next stop was Ray Santilli. So they interviewed Santilli in his office and showing him stuff. (1:14:17)

And then they went down to where John Humphreys lives and interviewed him. And guess what? He's got the whole body laid out. You know, that's interesting. So, yeah, because they sent me a copy of the film they made when they finished it. It's all in Russian, you know, but I can see things. Of course, my my friend and colleague, Paul Stonehill in the States is originally from the Ukraine. He gave me a rundown of what's on it. (1:14:44)

He didn't translate it word for word. He speaks Russian and he understands it. And so we know from that that. That, you know, that is still, although certainly was, you know, a dummy still still lying around somewhere, but you never know what's going to happen next with this film, Steve. Yeah. Yeah. You never know. There could be a part two. Somebody will find more footage or something, you know, make another 10 million dollars. (1:15:12)

And I want to remind people that if you're interested in this, this is an excellent book that Phil Mantle has written, Roswell Alien Autopsy, the truth behind the film that shocked the world. And just as he's telling these inside baseball stories, there's an awful lot more in this book. And it's very detailed. (1:15:31)

Everything you've ever wanted to know about that, how the how they did it, you know, the Spiros involvement. You know, it's just an incredible story. And I also wanted to ask you, so this Flying Disc Press, that's kind of a sub. This is kind of a subculture, right? But you have a whole publishing company now based around UFOs and aliens and strange stories. (1:15:58)

Right. When did that begin for you? And well, in 2015, you know, I've done all kinds of things. I've been a magazine editor, you know, and I know people all around the world, Stephen. And a colleague in Poland, he said, Philip, my spoken English is pretty good, but I'm trying to brush up on my written English. Can I send something I've written for you to have a look at? (1:16:22)

So he sent me this thing on email and it was actually a manuscript. He's a UFO researcher and a magazine editor himself now in Poland. So I read it and I gave him some feedback on his written English. It was pretty good, actually. And I thought this is this is a pretty good book, you know, so this is this is going back seven years. (1:16:43)

And I have a friend called John Hanson. John is a former police detective and he runs his own little publishing company called Haunted Skies. I knew the name. I knew the name. I have some of his books. So John was saying, well, why don't you publish it? I said, well, look, you know, I'm pushing 60. I've only maybe got, you know, six or seven years left and that with me retired. (1:17:12)

So I'll need something to do when I retire. And this my plan was to wait until I retired and then do it then. But John, you know, gave me the rundown how I could do it. So, you know, I took the I took the leap and I published UFOs over Poland under the banner Flying Dispress. It was a very steeply learning curve, Steve, but it sold pretty well. (1:17:38)

And, you know, it's interesting. I don't have that book and I'm going to get it because I'm Polish and I don't know anything about UFOs and my stepfather was other than the Nazi Bell story. That was my stepfather was from Poland. And and then I followed it up with another book called UFOs over Romania and that did OK. So I was up and running. (1:18:00)

And then a couple of years down the line, I got the chance to take early retirement. I worked for a bank now. Please, please don't hold that against me. You know, I had to. He was probably in the Illuminati, too. He was a banker. After I took kill, I had to come out of the factory and get get an office job. And I ended up in the bank for my sins. (1:18:24)

But so I took early retirement and and threw my, you know, myself into Flying Dispress. And we've had some success. (1:18:33)

We've got two Amazon bestsellers. Yeah, you're telling me. Congratulations. That's we now have one easy thing to do. Get a bestseller on Amazon. What we have. We also have Flying Dispress in France. So some of our books are now published in French. We also have it in Latin America. So some of them also make it into Spanish. And we've we've done agreements with German and Italian publishers. (1:18:55)

And we have one in Japan. We had one in Russia. One of my books come out in Russian. So but so there's more to come. I've got more books coming out this year. We're planning things for next year. When I say planning, I use that very loosely. I know. I've been planning a book for two years, you know. Oh, that's nothing. That's nothing in that, Steve. I've got an outline. (1:19:21)

I've got an outline. Two years is nothing, you know. Now, my latest book, UFO Landings UK, that only got written because we had the lockdown. I've been sat on that book for years, Steve, thinking I'll finally get this done. Once the COVID lockdown came. Yeah, everybody had a little bit more time, right? It was either that or bury my wife under the patio, you know. (1:19:45)

So, you know, I kept busy and wrote the book. And that's out now. But, you know, we know there's a lot of interest in the UFO subject. You know, we know there's still interest in the alien autopsy film. I'm just a couple of years back. I made my own little documentary series on the alien autopsy film. And that did pretty well. It wasn't for me. (1:20:08)

I did it with another company and, you know, they've been extremely pleased with it. And I'm working on other stuff with them. So the interest is certainly there, whether we like it or not. This damn film's never going to go away. Yeah. And I also, we have to mention, you know, we did this story largely based on information that you had amassed and collected on Nick Pope. And I wanted to get your sense, you know, all over the United States media, they always say Nick Pope ran a British UFO program. (1:20:45)

And I believe they do that falsely based on his own claims. And we've shared a lot of the stuff that you've collected over the years that seems to indicate he just answered the phone. He didn't investigate anything. I mean, what is your take on that? And also, what is the perception in England? When he's called the British UFO expert in the United States, what do people in England say? (1:21:09)

Do they know that this is all a lie? I mean, Nick has his followers, you know, and I understand that. But most people, you know, most people in the know here know it's not true. But you don't have to believe me or you. You can just go to the Ministry of Defence and they will tell you. (1:21:29)

You can check all their files have been released to the public, into our national archives. That's where I got the documents from. You know, I haven't pulled these out from, you know, pulled a rabbit out of a hat with the M.O.D. documents. They're all there. Anybody can see them. They're not top secret. And I'm one of the guys that used to bug Nick Pope when he was actually at the M.O.D. Yeah, that's interesting is that some of those documents you are aware of is him and his handwriting, even though his name is redacted because he was working there at the time. (1:22:03)

And that was you asking the questions that generated those documents. Yeah, the thing about Nick, he was different to his predecessors and those that came after him. He was just much more helpful. He didn't have to be. This wasn't M.O.D. policy. It was just him as a personality. And don't you think that maybe, you know, look, he was just interested in UFOs before he worked there. (1:22:28)

So once he's in a position where people are calling and talking about UFOs, he feels like he's investigating. But I think the word investigating to me doesn't mean you answer the phone and then you forward it to... what is that section? There was a certain section. The section, there is another department, or there was, it's not there now. And it's called D.I.55, Defense Intelligence 55. They dealt with a lot of things. (1:22:53)

But basically, when UFO reports went into Nick's department, which is called the Secretariat Air Staff. And Philip was nice enough to even send me the definition of Secretariat, so that I would know. It's admin, it's administration. Yeah, and I had mentioned that I worked at one corporate place where like four or five of us guys that were working there had one admin assistant. (1:23:23)

You know, and they did things like, go get me a file, answer the phone. Well, what Nick would do when somebody, when they got a report in, he would copy in various departments, the main one being D.I.55. Who actually investigated the stuff, though, right? On occasion, on occasion. On occasion, they did. You're talking a handful of times per year. But all they were looking at, Steve, was to see if these reports were enemy aircraft. (1:23:50)

In other words, the Russians. If it's a defense problem, they're interested. If it's not, they're not interested. And they just openly said that from day one. I mean, that was M.O.D. policy across the board. On occasion, they would look into certain reports and they would conduct an investigation. But they didn't tell Nick Pope the results because he was too far down the ladder. (1:24:12)

These guys were well above him. I'll give you an example. There is a Ministry of Defense, I'll call it, a report, a study. And it's called Condine, Project Condine. And it was done by a chap called Dr. Harrow. When you read the Condine report, you won't find his name on it. (1:24:34)

There's no author's name on it. And it basically looked at what they were calling then UAPs. And it was published internally. It was classified to begin with, I think in the year 2000. Because it was classified, Nick Pope's department didn't get a copy. They were not on the circulation list. So he was so far down in the chain, he didn't even get classified internal documents about UFOs. Project Condine is a lengthy report. (1:25:04)

Dr. Ron Harrow was a lifelong MOD guy. I think he started off as a pilot in the 50s, you know. And his conclusion was that these were unknown balls of plasma that may affect aircraft, etc, etc. But that doesn't matter. The fact was, Pope's department wasn't even copied in. It was Dr. David Clark who found out about the Condine report and got it released under the Freedom of Information Act. And see, to me, that is very... that right now, what you're talking about is very telling. (1:25:37)

Because this man, Nick Pope, claims that he ran the British UFO program. If he did, he would be given access to these reports and these internal documents as the head of a UFO program. But everything that I've looked at seems to indicate there was people that were in charge of investigating. But you're right, only when they felt it may be related to a defense issue. (1:26:01)

And also, Nick Pope, on the record, in a previous bio on his website, claimed that he investigated alien abductions, crop circles, and cattle mutilations for the British government. But we have, from you, we have from the British Ministry of Defense, a letter confirming that they have never investigated alien abductions, crop circles, or cattle mutilations. Right there, he's lying. And you also have some correspondence by Nick Pope himself saying, there are no crop circle reports in the MOD files. (1:26:41)

And then there's another document written by Nick himself saying that the kind of reports that the chap who'd written to him are talking about, i.e. close encounters, they don't tend to receive. And he actually advises the correspondent to contact some civilian UFO groups. And he lists them. Yeah, which doesn't make sense because if he was... See, it's all about perceptions. He, you know, puts out this perception or he wants people to have the perception that he was some kind of British Fox Mulder, and he ran out into the field and investigated crop circles and alien abductions. (1:27:23)

And it's very clear that they didn't investigate. That's not a defense issue. They had no interest in investigating them. And it's unfortunate, but we have a very similar parallel here in the United States because you've got Nick Pope saying, I ran the British UFO program. I was the head of it. And then we find out, no, you didn't. And that didn't exist. You were a secretary. (1:27:47)

And in the United States, we've got Elizondo saying that he ran a $22 million UFO program that we now know never existed and was not funded. (1:27:57)

Yeah, but I always say, look, you don't have to believe me. The documents that I'm talking about, I've shared some with you, Steve. Yeah, they're all available in the MOD files. You know, and I don't know if they are now, but during the pandemic, all these files, you could download them free of charge. Yeah, and I thank you because I did have, I had pieces of that puzzle, but Philip Mantle has a collection. (1:28:21)

He has an entire, he had a whole collection, and I put up most of them in a Google Drive link. After this broadcast ends, I'll put the Google Drive link to all the evidence and proof that Nick Pope never ran a UFO program for the British MOD will be right there, black and white for you. So you've got people coming to me saying, well, you're just jealous of Nick Pope. I've heard that. I've heard that. (1:28:43)

And I can see how people could assume that because you're both British. I said, look, I have my own little niche, whatever you want to call it. I am quite happy with where I am. You know, I love doing what I do. You didn't lie to people about your job to get there. I said, I left school with no qualifications. I have none. (1:29:03)

I mean, zilch, you know. You know, I worked in a factory and I'm proud of that. You know, I was a factory worker. My family's all blue collar union members. I was a trade union representative. I was well trained by the trade union. And then I took ill, seriously ill. And I had to, after a couple of years, I had to find a, you know, an office job. (1:29:26)

Like I said, I ended up working for the Halifax Bank. And I'm very grateful. You know, it saw my daughter through university and paid the bills. Sorry about that. Is that the ice cream van arriving? No, that is my, that is my, I have a, I have alarms set for everything, Phil, because I forget. That's just my son in another hour is going to be home on the bus. (1:29:55)

So, okay. Ten years after I had the heart attack, I went down with heart failure. That nearly flaming killed me. And I've had other heart problems. So I've been in and out of hospital. So there is no way I could run around like Nick Pope does, you know. So I'm not jealous. It's nothing personal. Nick spoke at one of the conferences I helped to organize. (1:30:17)

He stayed in my house as a guest. One of the things that strikes me is that obviously this man has an intense passion and interest for these subjects. I just think where he went wrong is overstating and embellishing and fabricating a story for his background that would then get him more bookings, more fame, more money. And that's a problem for me, you know. (1:30:43)

It's a real problem for me. (1:30:44)

If he hadn't said any of that stuff and faked stuff in his background or claimed that he investigated things he clearly never investigated for the British government, if he had just said, like you, Philip, I'm just a citizen of the UK. I'm very interested in these subjects. I've been researching them for 20 years or whatever. I would be much more agreeable to listening to him. (1:31:10)

I think of what Nick's job actually did. Bearing in mind, some guy wrote to the Mid-East City fans and said, how can I apply for the job? And they said, well, it's internal. And they sent him, they said, well, what does it entail? So they sent him a list of what it entails. And it's all admin tasks. That's all it is. You know, other things that Nick never talks about. (1:31:31)

What people don't realize, too, is that a lot of his job was that administrative and secretarial, like a British, a British airplane is, let's say a British airplane is going to fly to Poland. They need a place to land. They need clearance to land. There's paperwork that needs to be done. That's what he did. It's the civil service, you know, politicians come and go, but civil, you can have a job in the civil service for all your life. (1:31:56)

And he did indeed spend 21 years in it, you know, and he took early retirement. And he is a nice guy, you know, he's very affable. But if you're on the wrong side of him, you know, that's different. And based on the sock puppet accounts that are currently attacking me on Twitter, I think I got on his wrong side. And it's always interesting to me. (1:32:19)

I don't know if you know this, Philip, but every time, at least here on this show, when we show people the truth about one of these characters in conspiracy land, suddenly a brand new nameless, faceless Twitter account comes at me on Twitter to defend their honor and tell me how wrong I am. It's never a real person that defends them once they're revealed to be the frauds or the liars that I believe they are. (1:32:45)

It's always a fake, brand new Twitter account. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, and that's just the way it is. And I say, look, you don't have to believe me. I'll send you the documents. You asked for them, Steve, and I sent you them. I think they were there the same day or the next day. And yeah, absolutely. Make of them what you will. (1:33:03)

And but that's it. Like I said, don't believe me. You know, go to the minute. And this people will say, well, you can't believe the Ministry of Defense. Yeah, because the men in black covered up his investigation. Hang on a minute. Hang on a minute. You can't believe the Ministry of Defense, but you want to believe a former Ministry of Defense employee. (1:33:24)

You know, come on. You know, it doesn't quite work that way. But people don't want to have their illusions shattered. They think there's some secret department in the M.O.D. has been up to all this, that and the other. And if there is, we haven't found it. You know, we do know that D.I. I'll tell you how we found out about D.I. 55. Goes back a long time, Steve. You know, we would write letters to the Ministry of Defense trying to get access to this, that and the other. (1:33:53)

More often than not, we failed. But it was my colleague, Jenny Randles, who noticed on a letter that I'd got from the M.O.D., their distribution list. Oh, that's interesting. So they screwed up. And it was written to me, but I hadn't noticed it. Jenny noticed it. She said, D.I. 55. She then started to look into what, where the hell, who's this D.I. 55? (1:34:22)

And then we found out, you know, it took a long time, but they're gone now. That department is dissolved. It may have another name, move somewhere. Pope's department again was closed in 2009. So you can't get any set. If you write to the Ministry of Defense, it's forwarded on to someplace, somewhere else. They don't even reply themselves anymore. And they are genuinely not interested. (1:34:46)

People don't believe it. They're generally not. They've openly said... Unless it's a defense issue, then they're interested. They've openly said, however far back you go, that's it. They're looking at this from a defense point of view. They'll admit, they've always admitted that there are things in the air that they can't explain. But if it's not a defense issue, we really don't give a shit. (1:35:10)

You know, and that's it. You know, and people don't want to believe that. Well, if they don't want to believe that, I can't force them. Yeah, and I wanted to ask you before we finish, because this is going to be the next book of yours that I'm going to read. This is UFO Landings UK. Can you tell us a little bit about the cases that you cover in this book and a little bit about it? (1:35:33)

Yeah, I mean, when I first got involved in ufology, Steve, myself and Mark Birdsell, my colleague, investigated a UFO landing case, not far from where I live, in a small town called Normanton in West Yorkshire. And it involved a lady and several children. They saw this thing land, you know, these men in white outside of it, and off it goes. So what that did, it confirmed my interest in the subject. (1:36:04)

No longer was I having to read books about things that happened in New Mexico or Socorro, New Mexico. Yeah, you could talk to the real witnesses. Yeah, and we went and interviewed them. This was in my back garden, my backyard, so to speak. So throughout the decades that I've been involved... Jesus Christ, that makes me sound old, doesn't it? (1:36:22)

You know, throughout the decade. I prefer the term veteran to old, right? You're a veteran journalist. So I would collect these cases. And wherever possible, Steve, I'd go and interview people, you know, because a lot of it was the days before the internet. And so I just started to build them up. And I finally thought, I'll put all these into one volume, because there are colleagues around the world, will, I would say at least 90%, if not more of the cases in this book, they will probably never have heard of. (1:36:56)

And it's a shame, because if we're all trying to understand the phenomena, we've all got different parts of the puzzle. And unless we share that, we'll never see the whole picture. So one way of doing that is through books. And so come, you know, the COVID lockdown. I thought, well, I have no excuse now. I've got all this stuff on file. I better get it into a book. (1:37:20)

You're stuck in your house. So I wrote it. And originally, it was going to come out two years ago. So you'll see on Amazon publication date 2020. That's when I just uploaded the cover. Nothing else, you know? Oh, I do that for my book. That'll motivate me. I'll just upload the cover. Then I'll write it, right? So, you know, and then I, you know, and I eventually thought, no, I'll publish it now. (1:37:46)

Boom. And away it went. And I'm, you know, I'm very pleased with it. There's been a few problems with it. I did a lot, you know, if you see my hands, Steve, they're not meant for typing. I still, you know, hit three keys in one go on the keyboard when I'm trying to write stuff. But I've had it proofread. It's back up and running. (1:38:08)

And I do apologize to anyone if you've got my sausage fingers trying to write this stuff, you know. Like you said, when we were talking before we went live, there are things in there you've never heard of before. And there are some very bizarre things as well, Steve. So I hope our colleagues around the world, especially in the United States, can take a look at it and perhaps compare it with things they've researched. (1:38:33)

Or if you're just interested in the subject, well, here's a whole bunch of new stuff you probably never heard of. And it's out now. Yeah. Yeah. And just for the benefit of anybody who's interested, there is a link to Mr. Manel's books on Amazon in the description of this video. And I would encourage you because, you know, the first book of his I read was thoroughly enjoyable. Couldn't put it down. (1:38:59)

I had to finish it because it was and really that was cool because it was a piece of my childhood almost that I was reading about. You know, it was such a big event, this alien autopsy. And I'm anxious to read this. (1:39:11)

And I think we should all support the good work that people do. You know, people don't have to lie about their background in order to be involved and do good work in this thing and good research. You know, Philip Manel is one of those good guys. I put you in the good guy list, Philip Manel, and I gotta tell you, I don't have many people in the good guy list left because it just seems like too many of these people are out there just trying to grab the UFO dollars and they don't really do it the right way, you know? (1:39:47)

You know, if I probably totaled up how much I spent on this subject down there. Yeah, you might break even, right? And I wouldn't even come anywhere close, Steve. You know, my wife would say, well, we could probably have had another couple of children if you hadn't spent that kind of money, you know what I mean? And so I'm not necessarily that money motivated. (1:40:09)

Obviously, when I publish books, either by myself or colleagues, I want them to be successful. And of course, if it's successful, we get royalties. I mean, that just goes with it. But I've published books that I know won't sell in big amounts, Steve, simply because I believe that they needed to be published in the first place. Yeah, absolutely. Just for history's sake or for... Yeah, I believe that they need to be there. (1:40:36)

And there's only me, you know, flying this press here in the UK. There's me and that's it, you know? And I try and publish as much as I can that's never been seen before, both from the UK and around the world. I've published books... That's what I like. You know, I've got so many books on Roswell or on Rendlesham or cases that everybody's heard of. (1:41:01)

I love it when I hear some new case that I've never heard of. So I'm looking forward to this book. And maybe you could come back after I read that one. I got to do my filipino homework first, you know? Maybe I'll still be on your good list then, Steve. No, I would hope so. Sure. Is that a good thing or a bad thing, by the way, to be on your good list? (1:41:23)

It's a very short list. So I would think it's pretty OK, right? Yeah. But listen, I want to thank you for taking the time to join us. Like I said, it's not... I'm impressed. Listen, probably I'm impressed because I've been trying to learn how to write books on this subject. And to find somebody like you that's got... You go look him up on Amazon. The link is in the description to go check out his books. (1:41:50)

And this guy writes a lot of books, you know? So I'm impressed with that. And also publishes for other people like this person in Poland or whatever. And that's a great thing that he does for the community. (1:42:02)

Because if not for Philip, some of these lesser known people or authors from these smaller countries, we might never get that information out to the public. And I will continue to do that wherever possible, Steve. You know, simple as that. OK, well, listen, I appreciate you taking the time. And just so you know, you're like one of the only people I agreed to do an early interview with. I hate... Thank you very much. (1:42:27)

Well, you wouldn't want to talk to me at 3am. I wouldn't like any sense at all, Steve. I can assure you. OK, well, I'm going to... We're going to wrap things up here. So I appreciate your time. And I hope that you won't be a stranger and come back again soon. All right, my mate. Good night. All right. Thank you, Philip Mantle. Great, great interview. (1:42:46)

Boy, listen, I always say this, friends. I have spoken to Philip Mantle a little bit through email, but we've never had a long conversation like this. And I've wanted to. And I'm very selfish. And instead of doing it off air privately, I said, we're going to do it right on air and take all of you, my friends, with us. I want to recognize and thank you kind and generous supporters. (1:43:10)

We have Space Cat with a $6.99 super chat says, good stuff, Cambion and Philip. Great info. And then we have Sidvish, 500 and OK. Finally, a show I don't have to be in the replay crew. Yeah, we're going to try to do some early ones. So listen, I got to bounce on out of here because we're coming up and my son will be getting home from school on the bus and I got to go get him. (1:43:34)

I want to thank all of our kind and generous supporters. I want to thank our excellent guest today, Philip Mantle, for doing this. And I want to thank you because without you, it's just me talking. But I'm so glad that I could take you with me on this journey. And what a journey it has been. Always interesting to be able to take you, my friends, along with me for these conversations. (1:43:56)

I think, why have them privately? Let's just do it and let everybody listen in. And that's sort of been the model here. And it's worked very well for us. So that's all I got for you. But I want to remind you that 9 p.m. Eastern Standard Time tonight, we're going to be doing a special show, which is on the latest of Linda Moulton Howe's hoax. (1:44:23)

You may remember that we caught her using a CGI video game cover and putting it behind her paywall some time ago. She's at it again with a new fake CGI picture of an alien that she is claiming is a real alien. She even copyrighted the photo. We found the artist. We tracked down the person who actually drew the image. (1:44:44)

She's saying is a photograph of a real alien. And we're going to break it all down for you tonight at 9 p.m. Linda Moulton Howe's latest hoax exposed 9 p.m. Eastern Time tonight. Be sure to join us. That's all I got for you for right now. Come back at 9 p.m. Eastern Standard Time tonight. You'll be glad you did. If you like those gotcha moments, tonight is going to be filled with them. (1:45:05)

We got her again. We got her again. And listen, friends, making a mistake like that one time is a mistake. Doing it twice to make money is a pattern. And we can't let this continue. Please do join me tonight, 9 p.m. Eastern Time. Until next time, friends, my name is Stephen Kambian. Good night and God bless all of you.

(1:45:26)

(2024-11-08)

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