Brent Raynes : John Keel が訪れてきた旧友と長時間対話。後に 2年前に死去していたと判明 (書式変換+謎解き)
手抜き
28:40 Keel の自宅に永らく音信が途絶えていたかつての親友(F) が訪れ、長時間対話した。だが、F は既に死去していたと後に判明。さらにこの時、 F に別人( Dan Drazen )も対面し、握手していた。
host: F と握手した Keel の友人(Dan Drazen)をよく知っている。彼は信用できる人物だ。
履歴
(2025-01-17) 書式変換。ついでに謎解きを追記
(2023-06-28) 作成。 ❑ Brent Raynes : John Keel が訪れてきた旧友と長時間対話。後に 2年前に死去していたと判明 (途中 1)
引用
ジョン・キールについて書かれた本の中で最も印象的だったのは、彼が20年ほど会っていなかった親友のひとりを訪ねたときのことです。 (00:28:48)
それは1967年12月15日のことで、彼はニューヨークのアパートにいた。 そしてこの日、古い友人、実は1950年に、彼はその友人の結婚式でベストマンを務めていた。 だから、彼らはかなり長い付き合いだったが、この時点ではかなり長い間会っていなかった。そして彼はたまたま彼の家の前に現れた。 (00:29:17)
そして2人は、昼過ぎから夜中まで過ごしたんだ。キールは昔の友人だと言った。記憶があった。見た目は間違いなく彼だった。 何の疑問も持たなかったよ。最初にこの話をしたのはダン・ドラゼンだった。その男がアパートにいたとき、彼はそこにいた。彼は彼と握手した。彼が言うには、その男がそこにいたとき、彼はアパートの住人だったそうだ。 (00:29:42)
彼は握手した。彼は自分が、ほら、大きな手を持った男だと言った。そして、キールはその男と間違いなく打ち解けた。旧友だったからだ。 でも、それからしばらくして、キールが書いた手紙を送ってきたんだ。 それでね、彼はそれを説明できないんだ。彼が言うには、キールはメイシーズにいて、そこに男の奥さんがいた。彼は、ああ、元気かい?と言ったら、その男の奥さんがいた。 (00:30:05)
彼は言った、ああ、元気かい?それから、あなたのご主人をちょっと前に見かけましたよ。奥さんは彼に、ごめんなさい、亡くなりました。心臓発作で亡くなったの。キールが、それはいつ?彼女は1965年の7月だと言った。キールは、そんなはずはないと言った。私が彼に会ったのは1967年の11月、2年以上後のことです」。 (00:30:31)
彼女はかなり憤慨して、ジョン、私が知ってると思わないの? (00:30:38)
その時、私はそこにいた。試練の全てを経験したんだ。それで、とにかく、彼は手紙に書いたんだ、キールはね。そのせいで、眠れぬ夜を過ごしたと。 ダン・ドラッツェンとは30年以上の付き合いだ。 私は彼を非常に尊敬している。私は彼のことを文句のつけようのない誠実な人間だと思っている。だから、彼がこの人物に会って、その人物が後に亡くなっていたことがわかったという話は、文献にある他の話と一致しているんだ。そして、文献にある他の話と関連しているものが、実はたくさんあるのです。 (00:31:22)
コメント
たぶん、この事件の謎は次のようにして解けるのではないか。
…
2025-01-17 追記
若干、遅くなったが、謎解き部分の追記をしておく。
Daniel Drasin : 幽霊と知らずに対面し、握手もした ⇒ この謎を解く (2024-10-28)
動画(43:09)
The Legacy of John Keel & The Mothmoan with Brent Raynes
動画概要欄
May 30, 2022 Brent Raynes has been investigating UFOs and paranormal phenomena for the last 55 years. He is editor of Alternate Perceptions, an online magazine, that recently published its 290th issue. He is author of Visitors From Hidden Realms, On the Edge of Reality, and John A. Keel: The Man, The Myths, and the Ongoing Mysteries. His website is https://www.apmagazine.info/
Here he focuses on Keel's most famous investigation: the Mothman sightings and related precognitions around Point Pleasant, West Virginia, in the mid-1960s. In 2002, a film was made based on Keel's book, The Mothman Prophecies. Raynes points out that the actual investigation was more complex than was revealed in the movie. He describes his own research into this case as well as that of others. In one related, and well-documented, episode, Keel had a lengthy visit from a friend who was deceased. Raynes describes his own efforts to communicate with Keel after Keel's death in 2009.
New Thinking Allowed host, Jeffrey Mishlove, PhD, is author of The Roots of Consciousness, Psi Development Systems, and The PK Man. Between 1986 and 2002 he hosted and co-produced the original Thinking Allowed public television series. He is the recipient of the only doctoral diploma in "Parapsychology" ever awarded by an accredited university (University of California, Berkeley, 1980). He is also the Grand Prize winner of the 2021 Bigelow Institute essay competition regarding the best evidence for survival of human consciousness after permanent bodily death.
(Recorded on May 10, 2022)
Whisper AI(large-v2 model) + DeepL
▼展開
Thinking Allowed Conversations on the leading edge of knowledge and discovery with psychologist Jeffrey Mishlove Hello and welcome. I'm Jeffrey Mishlove. Today we'll be exploring the legacy of the Mothman and the legacy of John A. Keele, the author of The Mothman Prophecies. My guest today is Brent Rains, who has been involved in ufology since the age of 14, and that was 55 years ago. He is author of Visitors from Hidden Realms, On the Edge of Reality, Dream Weavers, ago. (00:00:59)
He is author of Visitors from Hidden Realms, On the Edge of Reality, Dream Weavers, The Mastering of Time and Space, and most recently, John A. Keele, The Man, the Myths, and the Ongoing Mysteries. He is also editor of Alternate Perceptions, an online magazine founded in 1985. It's been online since 2001 and is currently on issue number 290. Brent lives in Waynesboro, Tennessee, and now I'll switch over to the internet video. (00:01:35)
Welcome Brent, it's a pleasure to be with you today. Well, Jeff, it's certainly a pleasure and an honor to be a guest on your show. You've been involved in the field of ufology ever since you were a teenager, which is a long time now. Today we're going to focus on The Mothman Prophecies, John Keele's famous book and the legacy of John Keele himself. I think one of the first things that we should book and the legacy of John Keele himself. (00:02:07)
I think one of the first things that we should call attention to, because some of our viewers will undoubtedly have seen the film The Mothman Prophecies that came out in 2002, is that that film doesn't really tell the story that John Keele wrote about. No, it really doesn't. There was a lot more to it. I did talk with Keele after the movie came out on the phone, and he said that he was happy that it created the atmosphere of how it felt at the time during his investigation and what they were going through, the anomalous activity that occurred. But he said it had that Hollywood touch to it. But he was pleased activity that occurred. (00:02:53)
But he said it had that Hollywood touch to it. But he was pleased with it himself. I'm under the impression now, it's been a long time since I've seen the movie, and it deals with the intuition that something terrible was going to happen, and then the Silver Bridge collapsed, 46 people were killed. But as I recall, the movie doesn't really make much of the collapsed, 46 people were killed. (00:03:15)
But as I recall, the movie doesn't really make much of the many appearances of the creature referred to as the Mothman that occurred in that Ohio River Valley. Right. There's a whole history of many, for years, paranormal activity through that area. This was the part that caught his attention. In fact, he was in the area of West Virginia at the time, investigating. He was interested in all sorts of unusual stories. One at the at the time, investigating. (00:03:48)
He was interested in all sorts of unusual stories. One at the time was a story that was in the newspapers a few years earlier about a family that owned a cat that had these appendages that were kind of like wings. By coincidence, while he was in West Virginia investigating that, these four young people near Point Pleasant claimed they had encountered what later became referred to as the Mothman. That's when he got involved, and he encountered what later became referred to as the Mothman. (00:04:13)
That's when he got involved, and he made, I think in 1967, about five different trips to the Point Pleasant area. He even sky-watched on nearby hills to see if he could catch a glimpse of some of the UFO activity, or the Mothman, or whatever. Originally, it was called simply The Bird. But at the time, Batman was a popular TV program, and some journalists decided in an article to call it The Mothman. (00:04:44)
So that's how that came about. But Kiel had some very interesting experiences doing these investigations. He realized a lot of the Mothman witnesses, UFO witnesses, were having unusual psychic experiences, poltergeist activity breaking out. He'd even come to the conclusion that ufology should be a branch of parapsychology. I actually was lucky enough in working on this book, John A. Kiel, The Man, the Missing, the Ongoing Mysteries, that I wrote and working on this book, John A. (00:05:19)
Kiel, The Man, the Missing, the Ongoing Mysteries, that I wrote and had published in 2019. I reached out to Dan Drazen, who is a documentary producer who currently lives in California, but at the time he was in New York City. He'd recently seen a UFO, and he approached John Kiel at one of his talks. Kiel invited him to come with him to West Virginia. He met John Kiel at one of his talks. (00:05:43)
Kiel invited him to come with him to West Virginia. He met quite a number of the people. He had plans of making a documentary for a PBS affiliate in New York City. He had one of the people come down there with him. He saw strange objects. He had some very unusual experiences himself. Unfortunately, at the last minute, the company decided they weren't going to fund the project, but he was ready to do that. This experience originally, they weren't going to fund the project, but he was ready to do that. (00:06:15)
This experience originally, Kiel thought, back in 66, when he started investigating these things full-time for a couple or so years, that he had the standard idea, as a lot of people do, that it was nuts and bolts ET visitations. But then he realized that there were so many other complex elements to this, and certainly Point Pleasant was one area that he came to realize quite quickly that there were some things that were really, really strange. He even observed one night as he was there were some things that were really, really strange. (00:06:49)
He even observed one night as he was on a hilltop by himself. It was early morning, and he's listening to a New York radio station eating a candy bar. Suddenly, almost like a classic flying saucer, just whizzed by his automobile and seemed to go down into a gully just beyond his car. He said, admittedly, although he was used to walking through graveyards and desolate places and being up late at night and sky-watching, this unnerved him. He locked all the doors and was afraid something else was going to sky-watching, this unnerved him. (00:07:22)
He locked all the doors and was afraid something else was going to happen. But anyway, there's a lot to the Keel story. I had the pleasure of actually, as a young teenager, writing him for the first time in October 1969 and beginning correspondence with him. I asked him at one point, how could I investigate these things myself? I certainly was developing quite an interest. I had a little mimeograph newsletter, which I actually used to exchange quite an interest. (00:07:54)
I had a little mimeograph newsletter, which I actually used to exchange copies with him of his anomaly newsletter that he put out at the time, dealing with a lot of the findings that he was uncovering and sometimes of newspaper clippings he would include in it. (00:08:05)
We exchanged correspondence and over the years, sometimes phone calls and such. I developed a great deal of respect for him and his approach and getting out into the field and actually meeting the people and hearing the whole story and doing what I guess you call an unstructured interview where you listen to the story you came to hear, say a flying saucer landing or something. (00:08:31)
Then you ask him about other things unusual that have happened to them in the course of their lifetime. A lot of times you hear all sorts of other very anomalous experiences that a lot of the ufologists at the time when they go and interview witnesses, they're not looking for. It could have been a poltergeist manifestation, a cryptid type thing, an apparition, a ghost. In fact, in 1970, been a poltergeist manifestation, a cryptid type thing, an apparition, a ghost. (00:08:59)
In fact, in 1970, he wrote in one of his books, Strange Creatures from Time and Space, paraphrasing here, but it was to effect that ghost aliens take your pick. I'm not sure there was a whole lot of difference. The reports of aliens often have apparitional appearances and so when I asked him what I should do, he recommended a book I read on apparitions. He recommended I I asked him what I should do, he recommended a book I read on apparitions. (00:09:25)
He recommended I study studies on, you know, hauntings and Marian apparitions, religious experiences. He felt they all had very similar elements. And he was really one of the very first people to make this connection that such diverse things as cryptozoology and ufology and parapsychology, religious miracles, were all part of a single phenomenon. Well, he was certainly one of the early pioneers who really were all part of a single phenomenon. (00:10:01)
Well, he was certainly one of the early pioneers who really was making that clear at a time when ufology wasn't popular at all to write and speak of such things because a lot of the researchers were quite biased in their point of view. And, you know, they were really essentially only looking for confirmation bias. If they consulted with a psychologist about a witness, it was simply to find out if the person was sane or not. But with a psychologist about a witness, it was simply to find out if the person was sane or not. (00:10:28)
But really, as we realize more and more now, consciousness and physics are the main areas we've got to study and see how it all interconnects and at a deeper, you know, there's so much to unpack here. I mean, you've got psychology, you've got parapsychology, you've got physics, quantum physics, classic physics, and all of these areas have to be all studied together, multidisciplinary, and a lot of people just aren't getting along. You know, the cryptozoologist multidisciplinary, and a lot of people just aren't getting along. (00:10:55)
You know, the cryptozoologist doesn't want to share his information with a ufologist, like, that's a waste of my time, you know. And they look at it as a separate discipline, when in reality, we should be looking at all of this as Keel did, as potentially interrelated. One of the very interesting facts I learned from reading your book about John Keel is that in the city of Point Pleasant, West Virginia, they hold an annual Mothman Festival each year. Yes, they've been doing that, oh, since I think a they hold an annual Mothman Festival each year. (00:11:26)
Yes, they've been doing that, oh, since I think a little, maybe 2001 or 2002. And Keel actually attended one of them back in 2003, when they unveiled the Mothman statue off of the main street of Point Pleasant. And at those gatherings, I mean, that it's unbelievable, a little town of maybe about 5,000 people, suddenly there's over 10,000. (00:11:49)
Thinking Allowed 心理学者ジェフリー・ミシュラヴとの知識と発見の最先端に関する対話 こんにちは、ようこそ。ジェフリー・ミシュラブです。今日はモスマンの遺産と、『モスマンの予言』の著者であるジョン・A・キールの遺産について探ります。今日のゲストはブレント・レインズさんです。彼は14歳のときからUFO学に携わっています。彼は、「Visitors from Hidden Realms」、「On the Edge of Reality」、「Dream Weavers」の著者です。 (00:00:59)
著書に『隠された領域からの訪問者』、『現実の果てで』、『ドリーム・ウィーバーズ』、『時空の支配者』、最近では『ジョン・A・キール、その男、神話、そして続く謎』などがある。また、1985年に創刊 されたオンラインマガジン『Alternate Perceptions』の編集者でもある。2001年からオンライン化され、現在290号を発行中。 ブレントはテネシー州ウェインズボロ在住。では、インターネットのビデオに切り替えます。 (00:01:35)
ようこそブレント、今日はご一緒できて光栄です。 ジェフ、あなたの番組のゲストになれて光栄です。 あなたは10代の頃からUFO学の分野に携わっていますね。今日は「モスマンの予言」、ジョン・キールの有名な本、そしてジョン・キール自身の遺産に焦点を当てます。まず最初に、ジョン・キール自身が残した遺産について書こう。 (00:02:07)
視聴者の中には、2002年に公開された映画『モスマンの予言』をご覧になった方もいらっしゃると思いますが、あの映画は、ジョン・キールが書いた物語を実際には伝えていません。 いや、そうではないんだ。もっとたくさんのことがあったんだ。映画が公開された後、キールと電話で話したんだけど、彼は、彼が調査中に感じた当時の雰囲気や、彼らが経験したこと、起こった異常な活動を再現してくれたことに満足していると言っていたよ。でも、ハリウッドのようなタッチだったと。でも、彼はその活動を喜んでいた。 (00:02:53)
しかし、彼はそれがハリウッドタッチだったと言った。でも彼自身は喜んでいた。 この映画を見てからずいぶん経ちますが、何か恐ろしいことが起こるという直感を扱ったもので、シルバーブリッジが崩落し、46人が亡くなりました。でも確かこの映画では、崩落した46人の死者についてはあまり触れていなかったような気がする。 (00:03:15)
でも私の記憶では、そのオハイオ川流域で起こった、モス マンと呼ばれる生き物の多くの出現については、映画ではあまり描かれていません。 そうですね。あの地域には、何年にもわたって超常現象の歴史があるんだ。 これが彼の関心を引いた部分だった。実際、彼は当時ウェストバージニア州のその地域で調査をしていました。彼はいろいろな珍しい話に興味を持っていた。その頃、調査をしていた。 (00:03:48)
彼はいろいろな変わった話に興味を持っていた。そのうちのひとつは、数年前に新聞に載った、翼のようなものが生えた猫を飼っている家族の話だった。偶然にも、彼がウェストバージニア州でその調査をしていたとき、ポイント・プレザントの近くで4人の若者が、後にモスマンと呼ばれるようになるものに遭遇したと主張した。そこで彼は、後にモスマンと呼ばれるようになるものに遭遇したのだ。 (00:04:13)
彼は1967年だったと思うが、ポイント・プレザント地区に5回ほど足を運んだ。UFOの活動やモスマンを垣間見ることができないかと、近くの丘でスカイウォッチングをしたりもした。もともとは単に『バード』と呼ばれていた。しかし当時、バットマンは人気のテレビ番組であり、何人かのジャーナリストは記事の中でそれをモスマンと呼ぶことに決めた。 (00:04:44)
そういうわけでこうなった。しかし、キールはこれらの調査をしていて、とても興味深い経験をした。彼はモスマンの目撃者、UFOの目撃者の多くが異常な心霊体験をしていることに気づいた。彼はUFO学は超心理学の一分野であるべきだという結論に達した。この本『ジョン・A・キール、その男、行方不明、進行中の謎』を執筆し、この本『ジョン・A・キール、その男、行方 不明、進行中の謎』に取り組む中で、私は幸運にも恵まれていた。 (00:05:19)
私が執筆し、2019年に出版した『キール、その男、行方不明、進行中の謎』。私は、現在はカリフォルニアに住んでいるが、当時はニューヨークにいたドキュメンタリー・プロデューサーのダン・ドラゼンに連絡を取った。彼は最近UFOを目撃し、ある講演会でジョン・キールに声をかけた。キールは彼をウェストバージニアに招待した。彼はある講演でジョン・キールに会った。 (00:05:43)
キールは彼をウェストバージニアに一緒に来ないかと誘った。彼はかなり多くの人々に会った。彼はニューヨークのPBS系列でドキュメンタリーを作る計画があった。彼はそのうちの一人を同行させた。彼は奇妙な物体を見た。彼自身も非常に珍しい体験をした。残念なことに、土壇場になって会社はそのプロジェクトに資金を提供しないと決めたが、彼はその準備ができていた。この体験はもともと、彼らはプロジェクトに資金を提供するつもりはなかったのですが、彼はその準備ができていたのです。 (00:06:15)
この体験はもともと、キールが66年にこのようなことを本格的に調査し始めて2、3年経ったころに考えたもので、多くの人がそうであるように、ETの訪問はナッツ&ボルトだという標準的な考えを持っていた。しかしその後、彼はこの現象には他にも多くの複雑な要素があることに気づき、確かにポイント・プレザントは、彼が本当に、本当に奇妙なことがあることにかなり早く気づくようになった地域の一つだった。ある晩、彼は本当に本当に奇妙なことがあるのを観察した。 (00:06:49)
彼はある夜、丘の上に一人でいたとき、観察さえした。それは早朝で、彼はニューヨークのラジオ局を聴きながらキャンディバーを食べていた。突然、ほとんど古典的な空飛ぶ円盤のようなものが、彼の車の横を通り過ぎ、彼の車のすぐ先のガレ場に落ちていくように見えた。彼は、墓地や荒涼とした場所を歩いたり、夜遅くまで起きてスカイウォッチングをすることには慣れていたが、これは彼を不安にさせたと言った。彼はすべてのドアに鍵をかけ、他の何かがスカイウォッチングに行くのではないかと心配した。 (00:07:22)
彼はすべてのドアに鍵をかけ、何か別のことが起こるのではないかと恐れていた。とにかく、キールの話にはいろいろある。私は1969年10月、10代の若さで初めて彼に手紙を書き、文通を始めることができた。ある時、私は彼に、どうすればこれらのことを自分で調べることができるのか、と尋ねた。と尋ねたことがある。私は小さなガリ版刷りのニュースレターを持っていて、実際にそれを使ってかなり興味を持った。 (00:07:54)
私は小さなガリ版刷りのニュースレターを持っていて、当時彼が発行していた、彼が発見した多くの事柄を扱ったアノマリー・ニュースレターのコピーを彼と交換するのに使っていた。 (00:08:05)
私たちは何年にもわたって文通をし、時には電話などもした。私は彼と彼のアプローチに大きな尊敬の念を抱くようになり、現場に出て実際に人々に会い、話を全部聞いたり、空飛ぶ円盤が着陸したとか、そういう話を聞きに来たというような、構造化されていないインタビューとでも呼ぶべきことをするようになりました。 (00:08:31)
空飛ぶ円盤が着陸したとかね。UFO研究家の多くは、目撃者にインタビューに行くときに、彼らは探していない、他の非常に異常な経験の様々な種類を聞くことがよくあります。それは、ポルターガイストの現れであったり、クリプトタイプのものであったり、幻影であったり、幽霊であったりしました。実際、1970年当時は、ポルターガイストの現われ、クリプシッド・タイプのもの、幻影、幽霊であった。 (00:08:59)
実際、1970年、彼はその著書の一つ、『時空から来た奇妙な生き物』(Strange Creatures from Time and Space)の中で、ここではパラフレーズしていますが、ゴースト・エイリアンを選べ、という趣旨のことを書いています。しかし、その内容は、「幽霊エイリアンは好きなものを選べ」というものだった。宇宙人の報告には幻影が現れることが多いので、どうしたらいいかと尋ねると、幻影について読んだ本を勧められた。彼は、私がどうしたらいいかと尋ねると、出現について読んだ本を勧めてくれた。 (00:09:25)
彼は私に、ほら、憑依やマリア出現、宗教的体験についての研究をするよう勧めたの。彼は、どれも似たような要素を持っていると感じていた。そして彼は、クリプトゾロジーやUFO学、超心理学、宗教的な奇跡といった多様なものが、すべてひとつの現象の一部であるという結びつきを示した、本当に最初の人物のひとりだった。まあ、彼は確かに初期のパイオニアの一人で、本当にすべてが一つの現象の一部だった。 (00:10:01)
まあ、彼は確かに、UFO学がそのようなことを書いたり話したりすることが全く普及していなかった時代に、そのことを明確にした初期のパイオニアの一人でした。 そして、彼らは本質的に確証バイアスのみを探していたのです。目撃者について心理学者に相談する場合、それは単にその人が正気かどうかを調べるためだった。しかし、目撃者について心理学者に相談する場合は、単にその人が正気かどうかを調べるためだった。 (00:10:28)
意識と物理学は、私たちが研究しなければならない主要な分野です。心理学、超心理学、物理学、量子物理学、古典物理学、これらすべての分野を学際的に一緒に研究しなければならない。暗号動物学者は学際的で、多くの人が仲が悪いんだ。 (00:10:55)
(00:10:00)暗号動物学者はUFO学者と情報を共有したがりません。そして、彼らはそれを別の学問分野として見ています。しかし、実際には、私たちはキールがしたように、これらすべてを潜在的に相互に関連するものとして見るべきなのです。ジョン・キールに関するあなたの本を読んで知ったとても興味深い事実のひとつに、ウェストバージニア州のポイント・プレザントという街では、毎年モスマン・フェスティバルが開催されているということがあります。そう、彼らは毎年モスマン・フェスティバルを開催しているんだ。 (00:11:26)
ええ、2001年か2002年だったと思うけど、それ以来毎年開催しているわ。キールが実際に参加したのは2003年のことで、ポイント・プレザントのメインストリートの脇にモスマン像がお披露目されたんだ。5000人くらいの小さな町が、突然1万人以上になるなんて、信じられないよ。 (00:11:49)
You know, you're looking for parking places. Yeah, but it's quite an event. You get people from different fields who go there, and there's a local theater, an old theater there, where they have a stage that people, you know, researchers in various areas of cryptozoology or ufology or parapsychology get up and present their findings to anyone who wants to come in and listen. And there's actually a Mothman Museum on the main street. In fact, the owner actually and listen. (00:12:24)
And there's actually a Mothman Museum on the main street. In fact, the owner actually has written a couple books of people he's interviewed who had Mothman recollections. And there's a lot of exhibits of newspaper clippings and videos, and even John Keel's jacket that he wore when he was visiting Point Pleasant Mothman Festival in 2003. So, which I did a little recording while I was standing in there, hoping maybe I'd get an EVP, but I didn't. (00:12:49)
Well, we will talk about EVP because I know you have endeavored to reach out and contact John Keel since his death. I believe it was in 2009. But before we go there, Brent, I think many of our viewers are still kind of scratching their heads and asking, well, what is this Mothman? Maybe you could describe how the various witnesses referred to this creature. There were a number of sightings that occurred, and some of the referred to this creature. (00:13:26)
There were a number of sightings that occurred, and some of the researchers in ufology at the time thought, no, this is nonsense. They were even harassing some of the citizens, I understand, calling them up on the phone and saying, come on, Keel paid you to say this or whatever. And it wasn't just Keel, though. I mean, I've actually been in touch with a researcher from Sweden who came over in 1969 and 1970 on two occasions, spent several weeks, interviewed about 30 of the witnesses himself, came up with many of the same anomalous details. Now, a lot of the eyes, there's been a controversy about the red many of the same anomalous details. (00:14:07)
Now, a lot of the eyes, there's been a controversy about the red glowing eyes. The eyes often seem to have almost a hypnotic effect on the witnesses. It really frightened them. And this was a big, tall, six, seven foot bird from head to toe, had wings in a large wingspan. And the anomalous thing was it would like stretch its wings apart, as some witnesses described, but without flapping them, it would just suddenly shoot straight up in the air. And I know the gentleman from Sweden said that people, you know, he met a lot of the in the air. (00:14:44)
And I know the gentleman from Sweden said that people, you know, he met a lot of the people, the families, and said that again and again, these witnesses, the family members, friends would tell him again and again that they're not the same person. It was very traumatic, the experience, and it left a, you know, a long lasting effect. And I think some of them became the experience, and it left a, you know, a long lasting effect. (00:15:01)
And I think some of them became smokers afterwards, you know. And he also came across, as Keel did, instances where people afterwards had poltergeist effects, unusual phone anomalies. And again and again, you know, the these same elements cropping up. And so that's what I, you know, was quite fascinated with, too, when I started my own field investigative work. So the point, I guess, of the book, when I started my own field investigative work. (00:15:34)
So the point, I guess, of the book, The Mothman Prophecies, originally published, as I recall, in 1975, some years after the original investigation, is that the people who were encountering this mothman creature and were frightened by it, as I recall in one case, the creature seemed to chase them some distance into the town of Point Pleasant, where they reported it to the sheriff. These people began experiencing a the town of Point Pleasant, where they reported it to the sheriff. (00:16:05)
These people began experiencing a whole host of paranormal experiences, in particular, premonitions relating to the bridge that collapsed. I was in Point Pleasant with some friends from the Cincinnati area one time, Cincinnati, Ohio, back in, a weekend back in May of 1976. So a little less than 10 years after all this had broken out. And I got to meet one of those witnesses, Linda Scarberry, who was one this had broken out. (00:16:38)
And I got to meet one of those witnesses, Linda Scarberry, who was one of the original people that, you know, her and three other people that were in the TNT area that night, young people and this thing with these big red eyes had been seen and flew over their car on the way back to Point Pleasant, very frightened, went to the police about it. And, you know, the way back to Point Pleasant, very frightened, went to the police about it. (00:17:01)
And, you know, they were, the police were quite, quite impressed, you know, that these teenagers really seemed upset. And so years later, I happened to be in Point Pleasant. I actually go to the house, meet her mom and dad and some other family members. And I hear all these stories about doors opening and shutting and unusual odors and, and even like apparitional figures. And doors opening and shutting and unusual odors and, and even like apparitional figures. (00:17:29)
And and I also talked with a Mrs. Thompson, who Kiel had written about, who had seen this unusual figure back in November 1966 in the TNT area where her husband worked and they lived. (00:17:41)
And it was becoming, a storm was coming up and she went outside to cover up some motorcycles. And while she was outside, noticed across the road, there was this tall, dark figure. Now, she didn't see any wings, but it was a tall humanoid type figure with, it was making, it was a noise like a broken fan belt. And she said her ears were kind of popping, it was making, it was a noise like a broken fan belt. (00:18:06)
And she said her ears were kind of popping, making a popping noise. And her attention was focused on it. She said it moved like lightning across the field. She couldn't imagine anybody being able to move that fast. And she concluded in her mind that it was a robot. But it, she was unable to break this, like, it was like she was in a trance. And she was one of the people that had dreamed that there was going to be a disaster in a trance. (00:18:31)
And she was one of the people that had dreamed that there was going to be a disaster on the Ohio River, didn't know just what it was going to be. And she told me that she had had other premonitions like that, you know, over her, throughout her life. She even told me about a fire at a jail in Point Pleasant where several people died. So apparently this wasn't all that uncommon at a jail in Point Pleasant where several people died. (00:18:48)
So apparently this wasn't all that uncommon to her, you know. And this kind of goes along with Kiel's idea that he expressed early on that a lot of these people have some form of psychic sensitivity that opens, opens them up for a lot of anomalous things, whether it be a flying saucer observation, some sort of unusual creature apparition, poltergeist activity, whatever, you know, there's a whole wide range of things that, as you well know, could be, you know, discussed, debated, pondered, explored, dissected, questioned. (00:19:21)
Well, John Kiel, as I recall from your book, was a Fortean. In fact, I think he organized a local branch in New York City of the Fortean Society following the works of Charles Fort. That's correct, yes. Of course, Charles Fort wrote of, he would, you know, go to libraries and collect all sorts of unusual stories from meteorological journals to newspaper accounts of unusual accounts of all sorts of things. And he wrote four books altogether during his lifetime unusual accounts of all sorts of things. (00:20:02)
And he wrote four books altogether during his lifetime of this sort. And Kiel was, you know, he read, he was someone who read all kinds of things. He was a reading machine. And he was fascinated by a lot of the things that Fort described. So he considered himself kind of open-minded in that respect as Charles Fort. He looked at all these different things, be it airships or strange apparitional figures or whatever the case may be. (00:20:28)
If one were to go through just Fort's four books, I think you would find over a thousand instances of inexplicable events, things like frogs raining down from the sky. Yeah. I was, back in the early 80s, I wrote for the local newspaper and we had one of those cases here that a woman had described. And I called my column, The Odds and Ends. And so I tried to find here that a woman had described. (00:21:02)
And I called my column, The Odds and Ends. And so I tried to find local stories, you know, that were kind of like that. And at first it was, the editors considered it kind of humorous and interesting. But as I wrote about other things, UFOs and Bigfoot, I think they thought, oh my God, this guy's serious about this. So, you know, it lasted only for a short while. (00:21:20)
But yeah, I mean, these stories, and they're all over. I mean, it's not just Point Pleasant, West Virginia or certain window areas, as Kiel called it, areas where, oh, you know, anomalous activity seems to reoccur over, you know, maybe centuries in some locations. But sometimes it's the people themselves who are unique and who have some kind of, for whatever reason. And that's something that's, you know, there's a lot of theories about. I know that that's something that's, you know, there's a lot of theories about. (00:21:53)
I know that you've got a number of scientists who are trying to find out what that X factor is, what makes some people susceptible and prone to these experiences. And, you know, like, I've known people that would talk about, you know, having these experiences in a house that was haunted. And then they'd go on saying, I lived in this other house that was haunted. And then, haunted. (00:22:18)
And then they'd go on saying, I lived in this other house that was haunted. And then, oh, yeah, and there was another one. It was like, no, wait, it's not the house necessarily. It's you, I think, maybe. (00:22:24)
駐車場を探しているんですよね ああ、でも結構なイベントだよ。地元の劇場があって、古い劇場なんだけど、そこにステージがあって、暗号動物学とかUFO学とか超心理学とか、いろんな分野の研究者たちが立ち上がって、自分の研究成果を発表するんだ。メインストリートにはモスマン博物館もある。実際、オーナーは実際に来て話を聞いている。 (00:12:24)
そしてメインストリートには実際にモスマン博物館がある。実際、オーナーはモスマンの記憶を持つ人々にインタビューした本を何冊か書いているんだ。新聞の切り抜きやビデオ、そして2003年に彼がポイント・プレザントのモスマン・フェスティバルを訪れたときに着ていたジョン・キールのジャケットまで、たくさん展示されているんだ。そこで、もしかしたらEVPが得られるかもしれないと思って、そこに立っている間にちょっと録音してみたんだけど、ダメだった。 (00:12:49)
ジョン・キールが亡くなってから、あなたがジョン・キールと連絡を取ろうと努力してきたことは知っています。2009年だったと思います。しかしその前に、ブレント、視聴者の多くはまだ頭をかきむしっていると思います。さまざまな目撃者がこの生き物をどのように呼んでいたのか、説明してもらえますか?いくつもの目撃談があり、そのうちのいくつかはこの生き物を指していました。 (00:13:26)
目撃談はいくつもあり、当時のUFO学の研究者の中には、いや、これはナンセンスだと考えた人もいました。彼らは何人かの 市民に嫌がらせまでして、電話で、キールが金を払ってこんなことを言わせたんだ、などと言ったそうですね。キールだけではありません。彼は1969年と1970年の2回にわたってスウェーデンを訪れ、数週間かけて30人ほどの目撃者に聞き取り調査を行った。今、多くの目が、同じ異常な詳細の多くの赤について論争が起こっている。 (00:14:07)
さて、多くの目は、赤く光る目について論争があった。その目はしばしば目撃者に催眠術のような効果を与えているように見える。 本当に怖かった。この鳥は背が高く、頭からつま先まで6、7フィートもある大きな鳥で、翼を大きく広げていた。奇妙なのは、目撃者の何人かが説明したように、翼を広げるように伸ばすのですが、羽ばたくことなく、突然空中にまっすぐ飛び上がるのです。スウェーデンから来た紳士は、空中でたくさんの人に会ったと言っていました。 (00:14:44)
スウェーデンから来た紳士は、多くの人々、家族に会ったと言いました。そして、目撃者、家族、友人たちが、何度も何度も、同じ人間ではないと言ったと言いました。とてもトラウマになるような体験で、その影響は長く続いた。そして、彼らの何人かは、その体験が、その、長く残る影響となったのだと思います。 (00:15:01)
その後、何人かは喫煙者になったと思う。彼はまた、キールと同じように、その後、ポルターガイストの影響や、電話の異常などに遭遇した。そして何度も何度も、同じような現象に遭遇した。私自身も、現地での調査活動を始めたときに、このような現象に魅了されました。だから、この本の要点は、私が現地調査を始めたときのことなんだ。 (00:15:34)