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Stan Friedman : Bob Lazar は MIT に入学できる成績ではなかった

· 約56分

前置き​

Stan Friedman は Bob Lazar の否定派。彼がその根拠を語っている動画を、記録しておく。

核心部​

情報を持っていたGeorge Knappのおかげで、彼の高校に話を聞いた。彼はラスベガスの優秀なジャーナリストだ。それでわかったのは、彼は高校の成績が下から3番目だったということだ。MITに行けるわけがない。

コメント 1​

このように彼は、Bob Lazar については綿密に調査している。そして、以下のように調査の重要性を語っている。

私がここで言いたいのは、チェックとダブルチェックが必要だということです。何でもかんでも受け入れるんじゃない。私は大きなグレーのバスケットを持っている。黒でもなく、白でもなく、灰色だ。しかし、MJ-12の文書については、反論を待っているが、まだ出てこない。 (0:26:59)

それなのに、その発言の直後に MJ-12 文書が真正なものだと主張している。

コメント 2​

Bob Lazar の言動からは

彼は高校の成績が下から3番目だった

を想定し難い。だからと言って、情報機関が高校の教務課にまで圧力をかけたとも思えない。

となると、Bob Lazar は頭脳は悪くないのだが、学校の成績は芳しくないタイプなのかも。

なぜか日本 だと/でも その逆のパターンが目に付くし、成績が優秀な学生が後に業績を上げる事例は案外と少ない気がする。たいがいが、ソコソコ止まりの、ソツのない無難なレベルで頭打ちになってしまう。神童（児童）が凡人化する現象の学生版。

FasterWhisper AI(large-v2 model) + DeepL(2024-07 model)​

なんてこった。その話の続きは何だったんだ？ええ、他には？でも、よくあることだよ。つまり、だからこそ確認する必要があるんだ。下調べが必要なんだ。ボブ・ラザールも同じで、MITで物理学の修士号、カリフォルニア工科大学で電子工学の修士号を持っていると言っていた。ボブ・ラザールはエリア51で働いていたと言っているが、信用しないのか？工学部に戻った そうです。 (0:25:20)

上記のすべてについて、信用できないと思いますか？基本的に90％です。聡明で賢い男だ ロスアラモスの電話帳に載っていますが、ロスアラモスではなく、下請け会社で働いています。なるほど。MITの5つのオフィスを調べたけど、誰も彼のことを知らなかったよ。 (0:25:38)

情報を持っていたGeorge Knappのおかげで、彼の高校に話を聞いた。彼はラスベガスの優秀なジャーナリストだ。それでわかったのは、彼は高校の成績が下から3番目だったということだ。MITに行けるわけがない。彼はエリア51、ネバダ州レイチェルのリトル・エイリアンで、プレゼンテーションをしていたと主張した。 (0:26:03)

教授の名前を教えてもらえますか？と彼は尋ねられた。そうだな。ビル・ダクスラー、彼はカリフォルニア工科大学の物理学部のインタビューになります。一般的な名前ではないですね。物理学者だしね。アメリカ物理学会の名簿を調べた。ウィリアム・ダクスラーを見つけた カリフォルニア工科大学では 教えていない ピアース・ジュニア・カレッジは物理的には近いが、知的には違う。それで調べてみたら、ボブは彼の講義を受けたことがあったんです。 (0:26:30)

彼は怒っていました。誰かが彼の名前を参考にしたんだ。彼を責めるつもりはありません。私がここで言いたいのは、チェックとダブルチェックが必要だということです。何でもかんでも受け入れるんじゃない。私は大きなグレーのバスケットを持っている。黒でもなく、白でもなく、灰色だ。しかし、MJ-12の文書については、反論を待っているが、まだ出てこない。 (0:26:59)

そしてそれは私のウェブサイト、www.stantonfriedman.com。MJ-12文書についての長い記事があります。今、質問したいことが山ほどあるんだ。 繰り返しますが、あなたの言っていることに信憑性を持たせることができます。何かがリークされたのを発見したら、明らかに虚偽である別のものを出して対抗し、公式文書の信頼性を破壊するのです。 (0:27:33)

念のために言っておくと、私はゴードン・トーマスの『ギデオンのスパイ』という本を読んだところだ。モサドについての本だ。彼は80年代にローマ法王を襲ったテロについて話していて、出てきたすべての文書から、そのテロはクレムリンによって行われたように見えた。そうではない。実際、そのように見せかけたのはイランの革命防衛隊で、ローマ法王襲撃の背後には彼らがいた。つまりこれは、CIA、MI5、MI6、すべての諜報機関、そしてここカナダのCSISでさえも、起きたことを隠蔽するために働く諜報機関のやり方の一例に過ぎないのだ。 (0:28:28)

▼展開 文字起こし 原文

Oh, son of a gun. And you wonder, what was the rest of that story? Yeah, what else? But I mean, it's common. In other words, that's why you have to check. You have to do your homework. And the same with, you know, Bob Lazar was another character, claimed to have a master's in physics from MIT, another one in electronics from Caltech. Do you discredit that Bob Lazar, folks, claims he worked at Area 51, actually... Back in engineering. Yes, and back in engineering. (0:25:20)

Do you discredit any, all of that, all of the above? Basically, 90 percent. A bright guy, smart guy. He's listed in the Los Alamos phone book, but working for a subcontractor, not for Los Alamos. Oh, interesting. But I checked at MIT, five different offices, nobody ever heard of him. (0:25:38)

I talked to his high school, thanks to George Knapp, who had the information. He's a good journalist in Las Vegas. And it turns out he finished in the bottom third of his high school class. No way he could have gone to MIT. He claimed in Area 51, in Rachel, Nevada, at the Little Alien, he was giving a presentation. (0:26:03)

Can you tell us the names of any of your professors? He was asked. Well, let's see now. Bill Duxler, he'll be an interview from the physics department at Caltech. Not a common name. And I'm a physicist. I checked the American Physical Society directory. I found William Duxler. Never taught at Caltech. Pierce Junior College, which is close physically, but not intellectually. And he checked, and Bob had taken one of his courses. (0:26:30)

Well, he was angry. Somebody was using his name as a reference. I don't blame him. And so what I'm getting at here is you have to check and double-check. Don't accept everything, anything. I got a big gray basket, maybe. Not black, not white, gray. But the MJ-12 documents, I think, well, I'm still waiting for refutation and not getting it. (0:26:59)

And it's on my website, www.stantonfriedman.com. I have a long article about the MJ-12 documents. You know, I've got a bunch of questions to fire off right now. Again, what you're saying, I can tell you something that adds credibility to what you're saying, because all intelligence agencies do that, folks. If they discover something has been leaked, they'll counter that by putting out something else that is obviously false, so that it kind of destroys the credibility of the official documents. (0:27:33)

Good point in case, I've just been reading Gordon Thomas's book, Gideon's Spies. It's all about the Mossad and stuff. He was talking about the attack that was on the Pope in the 80s, and how it looked like all the documents that were coming out, the hit was done by the Kremlin. Not so. In fact, it was the Revolutionary Guards in Iran that had made it look like that, and they were behind the hit on the Pope. So this is just one example of how the intelligence, all intelligence agencies, CIA, MI5, MI6, all of them, and I would even say CSIS here in Canada, work to cover up something that has happened. (0:28:28)

動画(57:31)​

Stanton Friedman video MJ-12 Roswell Incident UFOs Aliens Eisenhower Night Fright Brent Holland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pfg7GCtFUg

動画概要欄​

11,700 views 2013/08/15

Details

▼展開 "A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on." Pres. John Kennedy Please make a difference and help me continue. Please DONATE: https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted...

Two new ground breaking documentaries JFK ASSASSINATION: THE OVAL OFFICE TO DEALEY PLAZA https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detai... 20 Explosive new facts on who may have been responsible for JKF's untimely death are explored in a revealing, cutting edge current day assessment of all the evidence and new developments in this monumental case. From CIA involvement, to shots fired from the Grassy Knoll, to the Warren Commission and more, experience the enigma of this pivotal moment in world history like never before. In his final interview Ted Sorensen, JFK's speech writer and closest advisor, discloses his insights along with several key witnesses coupled with never-before-seen expert opinions and forensic assessments. A LIFE WITH JFK: INSIDE CAMELOT WITH TED SORENSEN https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detai... Ted Sorensen, JFK's closest adviser, speech writer and friend, in his own words and final interview, brings us directly into the Oval Office as a member of Kennedy's inner circle. This film reveals how essential Sorensen was to the administration, as Kennedy said: "My intellectual blood bank". Not only with the epic speech "Ask not what your country can do for you - Ask what you can do for your country" but as special counsel to the President. It was Sorensen who Kennedy entrusted with the future of mankind when he tasked him to write the letter to Khrushchev to get him to back down during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Prepare for the roller coaster ride of insider perspective as Sorensen takes you behind the scenes with Castro and the Cuban Missile Crisis, Bay Of Pigs, CIA deception, Khrushchev, Civil Rights, Caroline, John Jr., Jackie Kennedy, Joint Chiefs and a possible coup in America, revealing what he believed was a conspiracy to murder JFK and who had the capabilities.

おまけ：全発言 文字起こし​

▼展開

Showtime! Welcome to the show! Welcome everybody tonight, as I adjust my chair. The person sitting right next to me, folks, is virtually a legend. Many of you are kidding laughs, but it's really... That's because I'm old! We're gonna have some fun tonight, rest assured, folks. Stanton Friedman's with us tonight. Stan's been on Larry King and anything you've ever seen on History Channel, Discovery Channel, all those channels, Space Channel, about UFOs, you are gonna recognize Stan for sure. (0:00:47)

He is virtually the father of Roswell, New Mexico. Tonight, we're gonna look at something called MJ-12 and disclosures of some secret documents that have come to light in the 80s. And Stan is part and parcel to that because he brought them to light. He's the one that they were sent to initially. (0:01:05)

So we're gonna look at that and we're gonna talk a little bit about a conference that's taking place right here in Toronto right now, and the possibilities of future disclosure. We're gonna look at presidents as well, who knew what, when, and where. All kinds of things. Don't go anywhere, folks. Strap in and hang on. Here we go. Welcome, one and all. (0:02:27)

Welcome, folks. I'm Brent Holm. Welcome to Knight Fright. Stan Friedman's with me tonight. It's the first time I've met Stan. It is a real true pleasure to meet a living legend. It's kind of one of the perks of doing this show, is you get to meet incredible people, and Stan definitely falls into that category. Stan, welcome to the show for the third or fourth time. (0:02:45)

Delighted to be on it. And wonderful to have you here live in person. Okay, let's go right away. Last time you were in the show, you were on the show, we had led up right to the point where we were going to start talking about MJ-12. And folks, for those of you that are fans of the show, you remember the show we were talking about Roswell, and we were almost at the start of MJ-12, and it was the end of the show. So if you want to check out the archives, www.knightfrightshow.com. Just click on the archives and that show is right there. No problem for you, you can download it for free, as always. (0:03:20)

Okay, MJ-12. Now just let me start this off, Stan. I was absolutely amazed to find out there is a whole other level of top secret clearance beyond the President. That's true. There are many levels, special code word is the thing, the top secret code word. And these are levels where only a limited number of people are cleared to have access to that information. And usually that code word is five letters, Umbra, Ultra, Magic, M-A-J-I-C. And there can be, you know, something like four people involved. (0:04:07)

I ran across some old declassified documents about some Air Force General was saying there are only four people in the country who know what we're planning to do with this airplane they were talking about. (0:04:15)

And we better start telling some others because people are getting suspicious. So the MJ-12 documents really posed a problem for the government. I say that because we received a roll of film in the mail in December 1984. And it went to Jamie Chandra, who was working closely with my colleague Bill Moore. We'd worked closely on the Roswell incident. (0:04:48)

Okay, I get a call from them. They've gotten this roll of film. Bill had made prints from the negatives, 35 millimeter film. You know, some people still remember that anyway, I hope. And there were two sets of eight negatives each of a briefing document for President-elect Dwight D. Eisenhower, dated 18 November 1952. Oh, there was a comma after November. Some people don't like that comma. (0:05:19)

And in this document, eight pages, and page eight was... there was a list of attachments, but they weren't there except the first one, which was a letter, a memo from President Truman to James Forrestal, who was the first Secretary of Defense, authorizing him to proceed with Operation Majestic 12. And not a full, clear picture of what it was at all. And then there was this briefing for Ike. The Truman letter was September 24, 1947. Roswell was early July 1947. Two months after. (0:06:06)

Now, Ike was elected President in November of 1952. And so this was a memo dated November 18. It was a briefing for the President-elect. He didn't become President until January. So it was an interim period, in other words. And Ike had been out of the country, really, until he started to run for President. He'd been trying to get together an impossible combination. (0:06:31)

The Germans who had been fighting the British, the French, and the Americans to join us in our battle to keep the Russians from ruling the world. Paperclip, Operation Paperclip. Well, that was part of it. But Ike certainly had a tough job. I mean, everybody had been killing each other, and now he asked them to work together. So it turns out that this document, this briefing, mentions Roswell and the recovery of a crash saucer and alien bodies, and that President Truman set up this group, Majestic 12, or MJ-12, and it names the members of the group. (0:07:09)

And it was an all-star cast. There were two Army, two Navy, two Air Force, as appropriate, five scientists, and the first Secretary of Defense. And the question, of course, when you read this, I mean, it's dynamite. Saucer crashed, bodies recovered, group set up. If the document's legitimate, then clearly the government's known all about flying saucers for a long time. The question is whether it's legitimate or not. (0:07:33)

And how do you tell? I mean, you got a roll of film, you don't have paper to check. So you can look up the people. You can do it the old hard work way. You go to archives, you look for other documents, see whether you find things that give you a reason to say this is phony or legitimate. (0:07:58)

And the shocker to me, the first one that really stood out like a sore thumb, one of the members of the group, I mean, I recognize all the names. (0:08:01)

Well, Forrestal's a big one. I mean, he was Secretary of Defense. And before that, Secretary of the Navy. That's right. During Roosevelt's administration. Yeah, and he's built all those ships. He did an incredible job. Anyway, the others, the five scientists, Dr. Vannevar Bush, who was head of the Office of Scientific Research and Development during the war, and he had been head of the NACA, National Advisory Council on Aeronautics, which later became NASA. He was MIT background, etc. (0:08:46)

And there were a number of others on there, the generals, General Vandenberg, Hoyt Vandenberg, and General Nathan Twining, and Admiral Roscoe Hillencoder, who was the first CIA director, and a number of other names. But the one that stuck out like a sore thumb was Dr. Donald Howard Menzel, a Harvard University professor of astronomy. Now, in the first place, everybody else you knew had a high-level security clearance, if you spent 10 minutes in the library, the jobs they were doing. (0:09:19)

But not only was Menzel a professor of astronomy, you don't need a high-level security clearance to teach astronomy, but he had written three anti-UFO books, which is absolutely bizarre. Yeah, all these guys were dead, so you couldn't ask them questions. Very handy, you might say. So Menzel was the one that bothered me. (0:09:40)

We couldn't go public with this, because somebody's going to leap out of the woodwork and say, ha, got you guys, that's a phony, I made it up. And I didn't like Menzel. His books were silly books, really, explanations that a college sophomore could tear apart. The trouble was... Do you feel, Stan, that that was a cover being put in place by Menzel? Well, yeah. (0:10:13)

He had written science fiction, and I think having him be the debunker was a very smooth move. He was well known around the world. His book was translated into Russian, helped keep a bunch of Russian scientists from getting involved. I mean, Harvard University, we're talking right up top there, you know. And so I didn't like him when he was alive. (0:10:32)

I'd had one run-in with him at Harvard. I called to invite him to a lecture I was giving, and I mentioned my name. Oh, I know all about you, which surprised me. That's what he said. I said, did you see my congressional testimony next to yours? No, I've seen letters and memos. You can't be a scientist and believe in flying saucers, at which I laughed, which made him angry. (0:10:56)

Can you just tell the folks very briefly your congressional presentation? Well, yeah, I was one of 12 scientists, six in person, six in writing only. I was in writing only. And I laid down the case for some flying saucers as alien spacecraft. Gave tables of data, talked about interstellar travel. It was a hard-hitting, concise presentation. (0:11:21)

There were a number of good ones. The best one at those hearings was by Dr. James E. McDonald, who had talked to 500 witnesses. And his testimony, 71 pages long, has data on 41 extra special cases. Radar visual, multiple witness, sightings over big cities, etc. (0:11:37)

So I didn't go into case studies. I reviewed the large-scale scientific studies and raised the objections and demolished them. So anyway, the brief conversation with Menzel, and he got angry when I laughed, and he was ranting, and I said, Dr. Menzel, I didn't call to argue with you. I called out of courtesy to invite you to my lecture on your campus. (0:12:01)

It's an alumni group of an engineering society, and I don't know whether they publicize it outside the society. Oh, well, of course I won't go to the lecture. So I told that story that night. Anyway, I decided I'd better do some checking, and I found in my files a memo to Dr. Bush that I had mentioned, from a lawyer in Boston, fancy outfit, thanking him for all his work in clearing Donald Menzel of disloyalty charges. (0:12:31)

This was McCarthy-era stuff, and people wanted to take away his security clearance. In the first place, why the heck did he have a security clearance? That's not astronomical. In the second place, how could he be considered disloyal? Anyway, so I called the legal firm, and they said, oh yeah, there were over a thousand pages of material at the Harvard Archives. And so I was curious, because Bush didn't have to say nice things about anybody. (0:12:58)

And in the letter it sent to Bush, it was clear he knew all about Menzel. So I found out where Menzel's papers were. Everybody was dead, so they couldn't complain. I had to get permission from two different professors and from Menzel's wife to look at his papers. So I finally got those permissions, went up to Harvard, and already looked at his correspondence about UFOs at the Harvard Archives. But when I hit the Harvard files, I didn't see any listing in the finder's aid about flying saucers, but there was one JFK correspondence, John F. Kennedy. Now, I'm a fan of John F. Kennedy, and I'm wondering what's the connection between Menzel and JFK. Now, was JFK president at that point, or was he a senator? No, he was a senator. (0:13:52)

Okay. But Menzel helped elect him. He was on a committee of scientists for Kennedy. I didn't know that. It turns out, Kennedy was on the board of overseers at Harvard. I didn't know that either. And his area of interest was astronomy. That's how he got to know Menzel. And Menzel's wife told me that Menzel thought very highly of him, partly because the other guys usually wanted Menzel to write the report for them. (0:14:21)

Kennedy wrote his own report. So I started looking at the correspondence and was totally bowled over, because there are letters from Menzel to Kennedy, for one, saying that he had a longer... he, Menzel, had a longer continuous association with the National Security Agency of anybody in the country, more than 30 years with them and the Navy predecessor. And when we are properly cleared to each other, I can tell you more. This is... he's telling a senator. (0:14:47)

Wow. And there were a number of these letters. So I was incredulous. And then, because I'd gotten his wife's permission, I was able to look at his unpublished autobiography. Still hasn't been published. And in it, he stressed he did highly classified work for the CIA and the FBI and 30 other companies. (0:15:14)

He was really involved. Turns out he was, when I did some other checking, he was a world-class cryptographer. Did his wife ever speculate on what his top-secret assignments? No. No, she never did. I asked her about it. He never talked about his classified stuff. And as a matter of fact, at these hearings, there was testimony from dozens and dozens of people, all saying that Menzel was extremely discreet about classified matters. I talked to his secretary. I talked to colleagues. (0:15:39)

And none of them knew what he was doing. And he was cleared of these charges of disloyalty. But if you've got somebody who people will say knew how to handle classified material, and his secretary certainly said that, Menzel was it. There's a lot of things there that aren't adding up. (0:15:55)

Well, it looks like he belonged on this group. And then I find close connections between him and a number of other members of the group, the MJ-12 group. I also find his travel book. He made a number of trips to New Mexico. I found somebody who worked for Computer Sciences Corporation in Minneapolis. He was a consultant to them because it was run by his wartime boss. (0:16:16)

And somebody who knew that sometime back, way back when, Menzel was there for summer employment and had to take off in a hurry, something classified. That seems strange. So I asked this guy very carefully, what year was that? Kept my mouth shut. I was tempted to say, was it 1947, but that wouldn't have been good. (0:16:48)

And he waited a bit. He said, let me see now. 1947, just the answer I wanted. Oh, wow. And he made a lot of trips to New Mexico. And it turns out he had learned Japanese as a secondary language for code breaking, different symbolic language. And he would have been the perfect one to show those strange symbols to. Not oral language, written language. So I found out all kinds of stuff that nobody else knew. I published an article. (0:17:15)

And Stan, I'm going to mention something. It's going to absolutely add credibility to this fellow, Menzel, being involved and everybody trying to debunk him. You had mentioned JFK before. And Lee Harvey Oswald, folks, you've heard me mention him before. He's the fellow that's purported to have killed JFK. The CIA and everybody set him up to look like he was pro-communist. And yet he was hanging around with anti-communist people. (0:17:50)

As a matter of fact, there are some very famous life pictures where he's holding a rifle in one hand and a couple of magazines in the other. The two magazines are at opposite ends. They were at war with each other. It's like apples and oranges. So when you mentioned Menzel, it sounds like he was set up to look one way, like he was anti UFOs in order so he could work undercover, if you will, and be pro-UFO. Well, he influenced a lot of American scientists. (0:18:25)

J. Allen Hynek favorably reviewed his books. It was James McDonald, one of the guys who testified before Congress, who really did a job on Menzel with his so-called scientific explanations, which he pulled out of the air, and which didn't hold up when you got quantitative. So there's long precedent for people needing double lives. Oh, completely, especially in that world. (0:18:54)

Menzel was a talented guy and he influenced an awful lot of people. He wasn't the only outstanding scientist on the group. He was the most shocking. But there are loads, there's over a hundred phony MJ-12 documents. It's like somebody started a production line, let's put a counter, and hope it rubs off. And so I'm still waiting for people to respond to my challenges. (0:19:22)

I've responded to every challenge about what's wrong with the documents, counter-charged, and I'm still waiting. I get so sick of people who are too lazy to do their homework, do their research by proclamation, as I call it. And the thing is that these documents are important. They tell us that the government knew a great deal in 1947 that Roswell was real, that there was an outstanding group set up to deal with the matter. (0:19:51)

And like I said, these are very impressive people. One of them was General Twining. Well, that wasn't a surprise to me, but I was able to... I talked to families of all of these guys. Not that they knew anything about what they were doing, but for example, General Twining's daughter told me the name of his pilot. (0:20:10)

So I was able to find him in the Washington, D.C. area, got a copy of his flight log, so I could prove where Twining was in early July 1947. That was very handy. And later, a couple years later, in a box... I kept getting boxes declassified. Twining's papers are at the National Archives... not National Archives, the Library of Congress Manuscripts Division, as are a lot of other people. So later I got Twining's pilot log. (0:20:44)

So I got both his pilot and his. He was still flying status. And so I was able to establish when he went where, with whom. Twining's daughter was helpful. Another thing, there was... Carl Spatz was the Chief of Staff of the Air Force at the time. He was gone in a year. He was the older one of the group. (0:21:11)

For his wartime work, he was rewarded. And one of the phony documents said he was meeting with Twining at a certain date in a certain place. So I... Spatz's papers, I got a look at his desk calendar, and it said fishing. This is early July 1947. Port Aransas. Well, he was based up in a Seattle area, and I couldn't find Port Aransas. But I talked to Twining's daughter. (0:21:42)

Well, it's down in the Gulf, near Corpus Christi. And that was a place where a lot of the Air Force generals went fishing. Now, Twining's pilot had told me that they liked to go fishing and hunting because they could talk without anybody else around. Sure, makes sense. Well, I called the newspaper in Corpus Christi, gave them the dates. (0:21:59)

They found a picture of one of Spatz's people catching a big fish, just in the right time frame. And I got his flight log, and so I know where people were. It takes a lot of dog work. Absolutely. You've got to do that, though. And this is in an era, I've got to mention this again, folks, this is in an era where you just don't go to Google and type something in. (0:22:23)

No, none of this stuff has been scanned. Exactly. I had a guy write me, or call me, I wonder if you can make some comments about how useful the internet has been on your research. And I said, well, yeah, it's kind of handy if I want to know who the Nobel Prize winner in physics was in 1958, I can go to my computer instead of going over to the university two miles away. But generally, the stuff that I found, like Mendel's paper, hasn't been scanned. (0:22:46)

That's right. You want to see it, you go there. You have to go there. Yes, and it's the same at the presidential libraries and stuff. I mean, people, there's 10 million pages of stuff at the Eisenhower Library. You don't say, oh, I've been there, okay, one of the archivists told me. That's right. The press comes here and says, can you run MJ-12 through your computers? No. No. Why not? Well, our stuff isn't computerized. (0:23:16)

It hasn't been scanned. Well, what do I do? Well, I give you a finder's aid. You tell me which boxes you want, and I will bring you those boxes, and you can look through them. And here's a cup of coffee. Have fun. See you in three days. Yeah, I mean, that's the way it is. (0:23:37)

Like it or not. So, the MJ-12 documents are a puzzle. I hope the movie gets made. Magic Men, M-A-G-I-C. It's going to be a combination of that book of mine and Don Schmidt and Tom Carey's book, Witness to Roswell. So, follow the two of us on the Roswell MJ-12 battle ups and downs, witnesses that went astray, so to speak, or who lied. Hey, it's never straightforward. (0:24:04)

And people, it's funny, people get used to lying. They make up stories. They make up stories about their background. No, it's true. Now, I'll call universities, and I've checked on a number of people. No, he did not graduate from here. Somebody told me, a registrar's office at the Air Force Academy, I called about somebody I was suspicious about and checked. (0:24:28)

No, he didn't graduate from here. I said, well, do you get a lot of calls about people who claim to have gone there and didn't? And she said, all the time. She said the saddest story was a woman called and said that her fiancé had lost his diploma. She wondered if she could get another one for him. Well, surely, you know, give him his name, birthday, all this sort of stuff. Turns out he had never gone there. (0:24:51)

Oh, son of a gun. And you wonder, what was the rest of that story? Yeah, what else? But I mean, it's common. In other words, that's why you have to check. You have to do your homework. And the same with, you know, Bob Lazar was another character, claimed to have a master's in physics from MIT, another one in electronics from Caltech. Do you discredit that Bob Lazar, folks, claims he worked at Area 51, actually... Back in engineering. Yes, and back in engineering. (0:25:20)

Do you discredit any, all of that, all of the above? Basically, 90 percent. A bright guy, smart guy. He's listed in the Los Alamos phone book, but working for a subcontractor, not for Los Alamos. Oh, interesting. But I checked at MIT, five different offices, nobody ever heard of him. (0:25:38)

I talked to his high school, thanks to George Knapp, who had the information. He's a good journalist in Las Vegas. And it turns out he finished in the bottom third of his high school class. No way he could have gone to MIT. He claimed in Area 51, in Rachel, Nevada, at the Little Alien, he was giving a presentation. (0:26:03)

Can you tell us the names of any of your professors? He was asked. Well, let's see now. Bill Duxler, he'll be an interview from the physics department at Caltech. Not a common name. And I'm a physicist. I checked the American Physical Society directory. I found William Duxler. Never taught at Caltech. Pierce Junior College, which is close physically, but not intellectually. And he checked, and Bob had taken one of his courses. (0:26:30)

Well, he was angry. Somebody was using his name as a reference. I don't blame him. And so what I'm getting at here is you have to check and double-check. Don't accept everything, anything. I got a big gray basket, maybe. Not black, not white, gray. But the MJ-12 documents, I think, well, I'm still waiting for refutation and not getting it. (0:26:59)

And it's on my website, www.stantonfriedman.com. I have a long article about the MJ-12 documents. You know, I've got a bunch of questions to fire off right now. Again, what you're saying, I can tell you something that adds credibility to what you're saying, because all intelligence agencies do that, folks. If they discover something has been leaked, they'll counter that by putting out something else that is obviously false, so that it kind of destroys the credibility of the official documents. (0:27:33)

Good point in case, I've just been reading Gordon Thomas's book, Gideon's Spies. It's all about the Mossad and stuff. He was talking about the attack that was on the Pope in the 80s, and how it looked like all the documents that were coming out, the hit was done by the Kremlin. Not so. In fact, it was the Revolutionary Guards in Iran that had made it look like that, and they were behind the hit on the Pope. So this is just one example of how the intelligence, all intelligence agencies, CIA, MI5, MI6, all of them, and I would even say CSIS here in Canada, work to cover up something that has happened. (0:28:28)

They always put out disinformation, if you will. So that's something to be very careful of, and very heady of. And Stan is absolutely right, for those of you watching right now, do research. Just don't rely on Wikipedia for your research. Just, to God, research. Do it. Now, Stan, with the MJ-12 documents, do you think that there was other... I like to look globally at things, you know, because I'm sure that whoever's out there, the UFO people, they look at us as all one... We're earthlings. Earthlings, thank you very much. (0:29:03)

Do you think there's other governments involved in the MJ-12... what's the word I'm looking for... covered up at this point? Do you think they know more? You know, it always amazes me that, you know, I understand why they would want to come down and get to the major powers. Do you think there's been dialogue as opposed to just contact? (0:29:26)

Between us and aliens? Yeah. Do you think there's been dialogue? There are two stories about Ike. Please. One of them, he had disappeared for a while. He was supposedly playing golf in Palm Springs, and the press is suddenly asking, hey, where's the president? I haven't seen him for hours. And they worry about heart attacks and stuff like that. (0:29:49)

So they raise it to the press secretary at Hagerty, and where's the president? Well, I don't know where he is right now, but I'll let you know. Let me check for you guys. So he came back in a while. He said, well, he was at the dentist, and he was under an anesthetic. And so we didn't want to release that. Somebody might think, oh, it's a great time to attack the United States when the president is at the dentist. But it's okay. And then they talked to him the next day. (0:30:19)

Well, Bill Moore, a number of years later, checked on that. He found the wife of the dentist. The dentist was dead. And funny thing, she didn't have any recollection of her husband treating the president. That seems strange a bit. Something else. They keep very good medical records on presidents, as you might expect. And going through those, there's nothing about a bad tooth. And a third thing, when a president stays in civilian, and there was a rich guy whose house he stayed at, there are thank you letters sent. (0:31:01)

Everybody likes to get a letter from the office of the president. You know, the little letterhead. Yeah. And a signature. Yeah. And there were no thank you letters sent to the dentist, who made a special appointment to deal with the president. So that doesn't prove that he was looking over at a military base, meeting with aliens, but it's possible. Second story, and there's a new book coming out, I don't know the title, by Art Campbell, who's a schoolteacher, retired now. (0:31:35)

And he found people who'd been crew members of Ike's official airplane. I forget whether it was the Sacred Cow or whatever it was, one of those planes. So predating Air Force One? Yeah. Okay. And Ike was, again, playing golf in Georgia, great cover story. And they made a secret trip to Holloman Air Force Base, according to the crew members. (0:32:02)

And Art managed to find several crew members, and when he went out to Holloman, a UFO was parked over there, and he was over here, and they got together. So I'm waiting for the book desperately. New Mexico again, you notice. So that doesn't... I haven't proved anything so far. But what I'm saying is, here are two cases where we have somebody who was known for his involvement in classified matters. (0:32:29)

Ike, there's whole book, Ike Spies. He personally passed, approved every U-2 flight over Europe. And he was one of the few people who knew about the breaking of the Enigma codes, you know, and stuff like that. World War II. So he was known for his sensitivity to security and classification and so forth. And if you think of all the presidents we've had, there's nobody better than Ike, really, for aliens to deal with. (0:33:02)

Remember, his assignment after the war was to get the Germans on our side against the Russians. These are the Germans we've just been having a big war with, and the British, and the French, and so forth. Impossible assignment, but he did it. But he did it. And there aren't many people who could have done it, frankly. Many people denigrate Ike. He wasn't an Ivy Leaguer at all, you know. (0:33:23)

There were strong attitudes from the Midwest. For those of you who are watching it, when we mentioned Ike, we're talking about President Dwight Eisenhower now. For those of you too young to remember, World War II, the European theater was operated by Dwight Eisenhower. He was in charge of everything. So I just wanted to give you a little bit of background on Ike. And then he ran for president in 1952. And of course, he was elected president. Twice. Twice. Yeah, there you go. He had two terms as president. (0:33:57)

So, a strong leader and strong man, without question. And certainly given a lot of stuff. (0:34:05)

I mean, that was right in the center of the heart of the Cold War too. Yeah. I developed a lot of respect for him. Yeah, absolutely. Even though he wasn't an Ivy Leaguer. Yeah, well, I don't give much, you know, credence to that. I look at the band, not the education. Yeah. Yeah, I should say the paper. (0:34:28)

So, the MJ-12 documents are a window on the world, whether any other countries knew about them. I mean, one reason for putting out disinformation is so the rest of the countries don't believe the documents, of course. And people go looking around. And remember, they weren't released in the form of this roll of film, and one document found at the National Archives, until after all the members were dead. (0:34:49)

So, there was no way you could go to any of these people and ask verification. Very clever. And the timing was interesting. We got the film in 1984, December. The last survivor, who had been the last survivor for over a year, had died, his obituary was in the New York Times, in September of 84. Interesting timing there, in other words. Because I, certainly from the film, there are little numbers on the film, and the film was made a year before we got the negatives. (0:35:30)

It was microfilm, was it? No, it was 35mm film. There are little numbers along the side that you can trace back. So, it's not as if they were done 10 years before or anything like that. So, I have to presume somebody was waiting. And I should mention... Has anybody ever come forward, Stan, to claim that they sent it to you? No, no, no. (0:35:53)

Nobody, yeah? That's what I was just going to mention. The guy who released the film, which is not declassified, was guilty of breaking the law. Of course. He could not come forward and say, oh yeah, it was me. You can't give classified information to people who don't have an appropriate clearance and a need to know. So, he was the guy that was at risk. (0:36:11)

People say, well, why don't the guy come forward? Because he was at risk. It's a very serious offense. Absolutely. He could be put in prison for treason. Yeah. Or worse. Yeah. So, it's a fascinating story. My book is Top Secret Magic, M-A-J-I-C. And I'm still waiting for anybody out there to tick me up on, hey, what's a good argument against the legitimacy of the documents? (0:36:39)

I show in my book why a whole bunch of other documents are fraudulent. I found the originals, for example, somebody emulated. They take a published paper, make a few, retype, make a few changes, and put it out. But once you find the original, then you know it's an emulation, and that's the end of that. (0:37:01)

So, I enjoy, if somebody would have paid me, I'd have spent full time at Archive. I got to feed my family. Absolutely. Stuff like that. But it's been a fascinating puzzle. And also, it illustrates some of the problems we have in ufology, with people taking positions without doing their homework. Precise. That bothers me. Me too. Stan, would you be aware of any other documents by other governments that might parallel MJ-12? Perhaps by the British, the Canadians, for example? The Wilbur Smith document, the Canadian document, comes as close as any, I guess. (0:37:39)

  1. Could you tell the folks what that is? Well, Wilbur worked for the government in the radio wave department. He was a government official. (0:37:45)

And he was in charge of the UFO work up here in the 50s. And he wrote a memo in 1950, which had, among other things, a comment to the effect that the United States considers flying saucers the most classified subject in the country, even more so than the H-bomb. That's right. And he said there's a small group working under Manowar Bush on how they work. (0:38:13)

And his document is very important, I think, and I quote it in my book. And his papers are at Ottawa University. Oh, is that right? Yeah, in the archives. I didn't know that. You just educated me again. And I've talked to his son, and I don't know whether his wife is still alive. I'm an old guy, so these guys go back, you know, quite a ways. I'm an old guy too, don't worry. (0:38:41)

But Smith was very sharp, not afraid to take a stand. And he had contact with Americans, and he mentioned a couple names, and I checked, and they were legitimate. Also, he met with Dr. Sarbacher, who was one of his sources. And I found Sarbacher before anybody else did, and met with him in person, and got his stand on this stuff. I mentioned him in my book. (0:39:13)

I met with him in Florida on his yacht, my joke. Older guy, retired. Now, I did meet with Smith's boss, who was sort of like the Van Bush of Canada, quite a bit younger. And I found him to be very evasive, not answering questions. I found him to respond in the way that people who were trying to hide stuff respond. (0:39:48)

I've run across that before, and look, I'm not going to push anybody to break security. It's against the law. I understand that, yeah. Asking people to commit treason is not a good thing, because you're guilty. Yeah. So, I don't know many others, and I should correct something. A lot of people say, you know, everybody else has been releasing all their files. A lot of files have been released around the world, mainly to avoid having to respond under freedom of information. (0:40:18)

But I would guarantee you that not all has been released. In the British, for example, I checked with several people, Nick Pope among others, and well, they hadn't seen anything that was top secret. And if it's not top secret, it isn't the top of the road. Yeah, and people tend to pass over it when they're doing research then. Yeah. What are you going to do? It's not easy to get at the truth about these things. (0:40:42)

Do you think there's a group right now around the world that perhaps they'll bring a scientist, similar to MJ-12, they'll bring a scientist from the States, they'll bring a scientist from Britain, they'll bring a scientist from France, and all the other countries. In some ways, I hope so. Because one of the things that distresses me about the whole business of aliens versus the Earth, if you will, is that earthlings have never been able to get together on anything. Who speaks for the planet? That's exactly right. (0:41:13)

I don't know anybody who speaks for the planet. And one of the reasons governments don't want to release data is they don't want their citizens thinking of themselves as earthlings. (0:41:21)

Russians, Canadians, English, Cuban, whatever. Because nobody wants to lose power. That's right. You say, who speaks for planet Earth? People who want to land on the White House lawn. Yeah. The President of the United States does not speak for seven billion earthlings. He has trouble speaking for 310 million Americans. There you go. So I hope that wiser heads, with the Cold War being sort of laid to rest, are working on a procedure to bring the rest of us up to snuff. (0:41:57)

Now, I don't want technical data put out on the table. Because unless you've got all the countries putting it out, no American government is going to say, oh yeah, this is what we learned from Roswell. You can't do that. I mean, it's silly. In other words, having worked under security for 14 years, I'm strongly convinced that there are justified reasons for keeping certain things classified. (0:42:28)

High tech being one. People expect me to say, when they ask me why the cover-up, well, a fear of panic. I don't think that's the problem at all. I think there are six good reasons for all governments to want to cover up. First, you want to figure out how the darn things work. They make wonderful weapons delivery and defense systems. (0:42:52)

We spend a lot of money on doing that. That's not a little off to the side thing. Stealth aircraft, $10 billion in 10 years. It's a whack of dough. Yeah, an awful lot of dough. Second, what if the other guy figures out how they work before you do? You don't want them to know. You know. They know. Weapon, counter-weapon, counter-counter-weapon. You know, I've been playing this game for a long time. (0:43:12)

Third, if there were to be an announcement by highly trusted individuals saying that indeed some UFOs were alien spacecraft, what would happen? My favorite odd couple would be the Queen and the Pope. About the same age. Yeah. Well known throughout the world. What would happen? Church attendance would go up. Mental hospital admissions would go up. (0:43:36)

Stock market would go down. And I think, judging by my many lectures at colleges, that the younger generation, which unlike me was never alive when there wasn't a space program, would push for a new view of ourselves. Instead of as Americans, Canadians, Greeks, Peruvians, whatever, as Earthling. Absolutely. There's no government on this planet that wants its citizens to think of themselves as Earthling. Self-preservation. Yeah. Nationalism is the only game in town. (0:44:05)

Next reason for the cover-up, you got people like Pat Robertson insisting we are the only intelligent life in the universe, right here on this planet. That UFO stuff's the work of the devil, he said. He'd be up the creek without a paddle if he said something. He's a right-wing religious fanatic, Pat Robertson. Fundamentalist. Yeah, fundamentalist. Next reason, fifth reason, is some people say, look, if they're coming here and we're not going there, they're obviously more advanced than we are, and we're going to have economic chaos because we'll figure out something better than oil, there goes the oil industry. (0:44:40)

Something better than cars and planes, there goes those industries. Computers and communications equipment, you know, economic chaos. Sorry, progress has to take place, you know. And finally, I have, on seven different occasions, been quietly told about situations in which pilots were instructed to go after UFOs. Those were actually issued in 1952. Fighter pilots or commercial? Fighter pilots, military pilots, were told to shoot them down if they don't land when instructed to do so. (0:45:13)

And there were more than 300 scrambles according to one general. (0:45:17)

I have heard of seven cases where guys went up and didn't come back. If I've heard of seven, there's got to be a lot more. There's got to be a lot more. And Frank Ficino, in his excellent book, Shoot Them Down, talks about 200 fatal military aircraft crashes between, oh, 51 to 55. But the New York Times used words like disintegrated, disappeared. (0:45:44)

Five of the pilots of the 200 were guys who had flown more than 100 missions in Korea, where the Russian planes, MiGs, were trying to shoot them down. So there's got to be pretty decent pilots to survive that. They come back to the United States, where ain't no MiGs, and they crash. Any idea if there's any Canadians like that as well? Good question, and I don't know. I was just curious, because you know Norad and all that. (0:46:12)

Yeah, joint effort. Yeah, I think Michel Deschamps, he's up in Sudbury in northern Ontario, and that's where all that was taking place too. I was just curious. Probably. I suspect there probably is. Well, there's a good question. Do you think Harper knows anything at all? Do you think he's in on anything at all? Look, the reason what you have to do is restrict the number of people who know anything, because they have press conferences, they can have plausible deniability. (0:46:42)

So far as I know, there is no evidence. Maybe some military chiefs may know something? Probably. Remember, there have been Canadians who were head of Norad. That's right. So there were people with appropriate clearance. Absolutely. Yeah, but that's different from the Prime Minister. Again, maybe there's another top secret level above the Prime Minister. I don't know. I'm just trying to bring the Canadian in it. (0:47:10)

Well, yeah, it's a legitimate question, and we do know that there is a classified connection with the Air Defense Command, and Canadians have been in charge in Colorado Springs. So, you know, those guys certainly know about chases of UFOs. So that's one of many questions, and these are not easy questions to answer. We need insiders to talk, and they risk losing all their pensions and all this kind of stuff. It's tough. (0:47:34)

So, you know, what do you do now? Pray a little bit. I suspect we're edging ever closer to full disclosure. I think with the internet and the amount of information flowing back and forth, it's getting more and more difficult, I think, for people to cover things up. What is your speculation on that as well? Well, the trouble is that a lot of the guys pushing for disclosure aren't very credible either. (0:48:11)

And some of them don't seem to understand the need for national security about anything. And I don't want technology out on the table. I don't want to give somebody else the means for destroying me. I mean, it just doesn't make sense. Maybe because I worked under security for 14 years. (0:48:32)

No, I understand. I guess I was going back to perhaps a euphoric moment when it would bring the world together. You know, was it Reagan said in the 80s? (0:48:35)

He said it five times. It wasn't just once. And Gorbachev agreed with him in one of their conversations. How quickly the world would come together. And so we don't know. Reagan had a good sighting while he was governor of California. Is that right? I didn't know that. (0:49:19)

Oh, yes. I've talked to the man who was his pilot. He went 30,000 hours as a pilot. He had been an instructor back in Korea time and so forth. But the whole plane load of people saw this thing go by. Wow. Yeah. And so Reagan, you know, was there to see that, so to speak. I know Carter had one as well. Yeah, when he was with a bunch of people at the Lions Club in, I forget the name, a little town in Georgia. And he's talked about it openly. Filled out a report for NICAP. Did he really? Really did. Huh. And I met with Carter briefly. Did you really? Well, he was at an airport in Boston. Okay. It was a Secret Service man, obviously, right next to him. And Rosalind was over there. (0:49:38)

And my plane's going to be up an hour. So I see him and I decide, oh, what the heck, I'll walk over with my hands. So you don't get shot. We're laughing. And I wanted to thank him for his work on the housing stuff, how the people had built it. Yeah. For Humanity, I think it's called? Yeah. And but then I asked him, I said, you know, I have a strong interest in UFOs and about government cover-ups. And sometimes CIA agents don't always tell the president stuff. (0:50:31)

And he made an interesting comment. He apparently found that to be true, too. And that's why he appointed one of his Annapolis classmates as head of CIA. Really? Because this I've heard from other directions, but there's a strong bond between the military academy classmates. It's a lifetime bond. I see. As a matter of fact, one of the MJ-12 guys was General Montague. And I found his son. And I hadn't heard of Montague, but I checked. He was introduced at the White House right around the right time and stuff. (0:50:55)

But it turns out his son told me that General Twining and Montague were classmates at West Point. And that was an important connection between them. So Carter's comment about that, while it wasn't specifically addressed to UFOs, was an interesting point. He was open about that. That's why we could trust him. Did he recognize you at all, Stan? No, this is years ago. I doubt if he was watching much UFO television then. And like I say, the Secret Service guy was standing right next to me. So I was trying to be extraordinarily cautious and not, you know, didn't want to rile anybody. (0:51:39)

And also thrown on the ground with your hands behind your back. Yeah, not a good idea. I didn't have another suit with me. So where we go from here, I don't know. It would be, you know, that Clinton talked to the Rockefellers and they were interested in trying to get stuff brought out. I don't think they fully appreciated the security aspects. (0:52:09)

I mean, that's the difference between Ike, who was right in the middle of all kinds of classified stuff during the war and after the war. Well, I think given his military background and going through that horrific World War II, I think, you know, obviously. So, yeah, unlike Reagan, who was not in the military. You know, Bush, the first Bush, was head of CIA. Yeah. Matter of fact, apparently Carter felt that he hadn't been told the truth. Why? Bush what? Is that right? Yeah. Huh. And I wouldn't be surprised about that. I wouldn't be surprised. So, you know, what can you say? Carter was an outsider, as was Clinton. You understand? Not around the Washington. No, no. Yeah, absolutely. So maybe we'll never know. (0:52:56)

I hope I live long enough to find out. (0:53:22)

Maybe the movie, I hate to say this, with my name on five books, all listed at www.standfordman.com. But more people watch movies than read books. Yeah, nowadays. What a shame. It is. It's tragic, actually. A lot of people look at the movie JFK as a documentary and not as a movie. It's a movie. Yeah. When it comes out, what would happen? I think if it's properly handled, basically nothing. There will be some religious kickback. People will have to, you know, say, what about that? Will it affect, was Jesus an alien? Is it true? Yeah, I mean, you know, there's all kinds of questions like that. (0:53:47)

But I think, look, I give very strong lectures. And it shocks people that I've only had 11 hecklers in over 700 lectures, and two of them were drunk. And you get that many lectures, we're talking about sports, religion, politics, whatever, you know. So I think the public can handle it if you present it properly. Agreed. Are they malevolent? Do you think there's more than one species? (0:54:30)

No, I think there is more than one species. I think either you learn to live at peace with your neighbors, or you don't last very long. Agreed. Aliens haven't destroyed us. And maybe they're the good guys defending us against those bad guys who are going to destroy us, because we're bad guys. Look, we don't have a good track record. World War II, 60 million people killed by other earthlings, 1700 cities destroyed. (0:54:57)

A whole industry set up to annihilate a population. And don't forget, one of the major expenditures on this planet this year will be military war. One trillion dollars. How many starving kids would that feed? Oh, jeez. So, there are implications here. And we have the capabilities to feed the world. That's right. That's what I mean. And we've made a choice. We spend on guns rather than food. Not just us, but other countries. (0:55:26)

And it comes back down to tribalism. From an alien viewpoint, we're a primitive society whose major activity is tribal warfare. The reason they're here, I'm convinced, is that they want to make sure we don't go out there. (0:55:41)

Yeah, who can blame them? No one can blame them. It would be like... well, jeez, that's a bad analogy. I was going to say it would be like bringing the Taliban over to Canada, but that's a bad analogy. You get the idea, folks. (0:56:01)

You certainly don't want to entertain folks and have them in your backyard that are set to annihilate you. It would be like living in Israel. We're going to have to start to wrap up now, Stan. But I want to thank you so much. You know, I told Stan, I said, come on the show, Stan. We'll do a live little interview here for 20 minutes. (0:56:13)

It's been an hour. He is amazing, isn't he, folks? He'll be back to quote Arnold Schwarzenegger. And by the way, rumor has it Arnold Schwarzenegger is going to be playing Stan in the upcoming movie about his life. I thought it would be Richard Greifers. No, he's got to grow a beard, though. I'm sorry, Schwarzenegger's got to grow that beard. So yeah, it's going to be full contact, Magic Man. I'm Brent Holland from KnifeRite. Thank you all for joining us. (0:56:43)

Thank you, Stan. You're very welcome. See you next time. Stay tuned for more KnifeRite. I'm your host, Brent Holland. The time has now come. Your voice will be heard on KnifeRite. Stay tuned.

(0:57:20)

(2024-11-28)