Annika + Tristan : 一つの体に「ふたり」の人格、自在な人格交代の事例
前置き
この Annika + Tristan の「ふたり」のインタビュー動画は過去記事でも取り上げたが、また新たなインタビュー動画が up されていた。
自由自在に「ふたり」の人格が交代し、それがインタビューの最中に起きている。このような「ふたり」は、臨床心理学の事例としても極めて珍しい筈。
しかも、ギター（もどき）の楽器を演奏しながら、素早く人格交代しながら歌っている。
「ふたり」のやり取りを見ていると、腹話術を連想させる。
動画が消えた場合に備えて、文字起こしを添付しておく。
手抜き
スキーで、360度の視野、スキーの技術は「ふたり」の間で大きく異なる。
OBE と astral travel の体験があり、両者は異なる。
片方の人格が睡眠状態に入り、もう片方の人格が目覚めている状態を、それぞれの人格の内側からの目線でか語っている。
43:00 Annika はマリファナ常習者、Tristan は摂取経験なし。Tristan の側からマリファナ接種時の体験を語ると…
49:00 チャクラが人格ごとに 1セットずつ存在。片方がブロックを解除。
54:00 ET について。3rd Kind の映画で ET を恐れた。
59:45 Danny Sheehan が盗み書きした ET の記号(*1)が 10yo のときに見たそれと一致。
1:05:25 guitarlele （ギターとウクレレのハイブリッド楽器）を演奏しながら、「ふたり」で交互に歌っている。歌声は入れ替わっているが、その間も演奏の技量は変化していない。（スキーのそれとは大違い）
(*1)
1977年、Danny Sheehan が政府書庫で閲覧を許されたマイクロフィルムに「墜落 UFO 回収写真」が紛れ込んでいた ⇒ この謎を解く (2024-09-06)
コメント
この「ふたり」が騙しているとは思わない。乖離のわかりやすい事例だと見る。ET の記号の件は、記憶の混乱がもたらした誤認だろう。
Youtube 動画(1:36:33)
Neurodiversity, Part 6 Update with Annika and Tristan
FasterWhisper AI(large-v2 model)
▼展開
Book three in the New Thinking Allowed dialogue series is UFOs and UAP. Are We Really Alone? Now available on Amazon. New Thinking Allowed is presented by the California Institute for Human Science, a fully accredited university offering distant learning graduate degrees that focus on mind, body, and spirit. The topics that we cover here, we are particularly excited to announce new degrees emphasizing parapsychology and the paranormal. (0:00:38)
Visit their website at cihs.edu. You can now download a free PDF copy of issue number eight of the New Thinking Allowed magazine or order a beautiful printed copy. Go to newthinkingallowed.org. Thinking Allowed. Conversations on the leading edge of knowledge and discovery with psychologist Jeffrey Mishlove. Hello and welcome. I'm Jeffrey Mishlove. Today is a very special day. We're here on the Ides of March in our little studio in Albuquerque. I have a live guest with me in the studio and actually two guests, Annika and Tristan, are with me today. (0:01:38)
They've been on New Thinking Allowed four times in the past. I encourage you to check our listings. I'll even link to one of them in the upper right hand corner, the very first interview we did. If you haven't watched it, it'll be a very good introduction because we're going to pick up today as sort of an update. It's been a year since Annika and Tristan have been here with me in Albuquerque and I know they've had a very exciting life. (0:02:12)
Now, I'm talking about two souls in one body. Welcome, Annika. Welcome, Tristan. Hi, Jeffrey. It's a pleasure being here. Hi, Jeffrey. It's a real honor. It's a pleasure to be with both of you. I know you've had an exciting life over the last year amongst other things. You met my good friend, Alex Gomez-Marin, who was the director of the PERI Center in Italy and he even arranged for you to be a special guest in a program there. (0:02:43)
Yeah, we did a little interview at the PERI Center online. It was great. It was wonderful. Tons of people attended. We were a little nervous, but it went great. Yeah, he's been absolutely wonderful in helping us along with our case and studying us and we're hoping that he's going to put us under some scientific equipment soon so we can see how this works biologically, but we're excited. (0:03:07)
Yeah, he's been great. And the interesting thing, I suppose, from my point of view is here we are a year later and I don't notice personally, because we've had now 12 hours or so to interact. Well, most of that was sleeping, but you've been here in Albuquerque now since last night, so we've had time together. And I don't notice any dramatic changes since you were here a year ago. (0:03:38)
It seems as if your situation in terms of stability of two souls interacting in one body seems about the same. Yeah, we've had a really great year. It's been really wonderful for us. A lot of spiritual growth, a lot of learning. But in terms of stability, yeah, we're doing great. We love each other. It's been wonderful. It's been a really, really special year. And yeah, like Justin said, we love each other. Everything is stable. (0:04:08)
Everything's wonderful. Job is going great. Just everything's fantastic. (0:04:12)
But I think it's fair to say that you're still aware of the fact that you live in a larger society that is almost incapable of understanding the very concept of two souls in one body. Yeah, like there's been friends I've opened up to about it. And it's been really nice to be able to send the interviews we did because it's like, there's their perfect introduction to it. (0:04:41)
But yeah, it's still something that whenever I go out, I have to like, you know, make up a story as to like my situation or, you know, the person I spend all my time with. And some of my friends just know him as my dad, you know, so it's like, it's tricky to navigate reality. As far as myself, yeah, I don't get out of the house as much. (0:05:04)
I got to go on a ski trip, which was nice recently. It's nice when her friends do know because then I get invited to things, which is nice. But you know, most of my home life, most of my life is still spent at home because, you know, we can't go out. (0:05:21)
I think we've gotten a little bit more confident just going for walks and talking with each other because everybody's on like their devices these days. So, they don't really notice us walking around, talking to each other, which is nice. But still, we're always a little cautious, especially when we're laughing and, you know, for being a little too animated or switching the body really hard back and forth. (0:05:41)
It's still very much feels like we have to hide from the majority of society. And the reason being? The reason being... I think you kind of wanted to go into it. The reason being because, well, one, we don't want people to look down on us or think like, oh my God, you know, like she's crazy because they'll see me first. (0:06:06)
Or, you know, or especially with the political situation in the country, with the anti-trans kind of movement, that's been pretty scary. And to the point where we really haven't been public more than the Perry Center and your show, just because we're like, really afraid of being too far out there and, you know, getting too much attention. So, we're trying to keep like a low profile. (0:06:27)
Yeah, it's a little bit of a scary time in the country. And, you know, and also just from like the comments on the last video, not everybody is ready for this or can accept this. And some people really don't like it for some reason. So, we just, we're playing it cautious. We're just playing it safe. Annika, you're really the face of the two souls in one body for the most part. (0:06:56)
You're the one who's out in public. Yes. Yeah. I'm the one who goes out. I'm the one who like, you know, if we have to go do chores or something, like, I'm always like the face of it. So, but, you know, we've, we have also like, Tristan has gone out alone now a couple times. (0:07:16)
And if he dresses in like his boy clothes that he has, and he like, you know, wears a hat or something like he goes out just fine. And people recognize him as a boy and they see him. So, there's been a few times where he's did a little excursion here and there. I don't know if 7-Eleven is exactly an excursion. (0:07:32)
Yeah. But yeah, it's still somewhere. Yeah. I've gone out a few times, which is nice. And when, like with her friends, it's been really nice because I can actually sit there and have a conversation at the table. They still see her, but more and more, they're acknowledging, acknowledging me. So, so you're beginning to form a circle of people. Yeah. Yeah. And we also have the Experiencer Group, which is a collection of Experiencers, the Experiencer Network, run by Oak, who runs our Experiencers over on Reddit. And they've been so wonderful and accepting. (0:08:10)
It's our online family. We're going to get to see him next month when we go to the UFO convention. It's going to be great to be able to go on trips, you know, together. Yeah. We love going on trips. Like, so even just being able to come here and be open and just not have to be afraid or have to like, you know, hide this is so wonderful. (0:08:28)
Yeah. Although I will admit it's still weird going through airport security because I feel like I'm being smuggled through airport security because normally, you know, I would want to buy two tickets, but there's only one body. And so security only sees one body. But every time we go through the scanner, I'm like, I feel like a stowaway, you know, hiding along. Yeah. Legally, I guess you are now a female. (0:08:51)
Yeah, yeah. Actually, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like some of my documents, I decided to go non-binary out of respect to Tristan, but legally female. Yep. Technically speaking, among the other liabilities that you have from a sociological point of view, you're a trans female. Yes. Yes. From a societal perspective. Yep. But I imagine inside you don't feel that way exactly. I do. (0:09:24)
I feel 100% female and I've always felt that way, but I'm also respectful for Tristan. I think it's I think it stems from society. Basically, like our society completely sees the body as the person and they see the physical aspect of a person as that is who they are versus the soul. (0:09:43)
And I think that's the big one is that so when they look at me, they're going to see female. They might hear female. And that's my soul. But Tristan is also there and he's male. He's a boy. He's he's masculine. He's. And so when he's in front, when he's has the body, sometimes people see the body as masculine. (0:10:00)
So I think it has more to do with our society. I like to say that the body is is trans like we had to transition the body. But the souls, they've always been the same. Well, what I meant to say is you're not a typical trans female, because if I understand correctly, a typical trans female would have experienced gender dysphoria. Is that something you experienced? (0:10:23)
Yeah. Like when I first got the body from Tristan. So when he first gave me the body, yeah, the dysphoria was crazy because the body was masculine. It was male. And so I transitioned the body to make myself more comfortable. (0:10:37)
Yeah, you made yourself at home. And so, yeah, I had to transition it. I had to work on it. I had to take hormones, the full work. So I definitely and when it comes to trans women, there are some trans women just in my experience working with the trans community is like some trans women feel like they were born in the wrong body and they've always had the same soul and the body just had the gender dysphoria and they had to transition it. (0:11:06)
While others, like one of my friends, they were in a similar two soul situation where it was a walk in where they felt like they came in or that they were given the body by the male soul that originally had it. So there's different. I think there's way more complex soul situations than our society even knows about. I imagine that that's the case. (0:11:31)
I imagine that you're if we were to dig a little deeper into the actual experiences of people, we might come up with a hundred variations. Yeah, and I think a lot of people are afraid. They're scared to talk about this. They're scared to be open about it. And one of the things that came out of that interview is that people reached out to us after the video and said, hey, this is our situation and we're in the same boat and we're multiple souls sharing a body. (0:11:59)
We're two people and male and female and we're trying to figure it out and navigate it. So we've actually been able to help people who are in our situation. So it is more complex and it is more widespread than society lets on. And I might add, as a researcher, I'm not aware of any case like yours in the literature. Maybe it exists. (0:12:22)
I haven't done a thorough examination. But in any case, the literature deals with psychopathology. It would be a psychiatric literature. And personally, I don't see you as suffering from, at least right now, from a psychopathology. You seem to be well adjusted. Yeah, we have a normal home life. It's full of love and adventure and fun. It's wonderful. Yeah. You know, it's not a disorder if it doesn't cause a disorder in your life. (0:12:48)
And, you know, while we do have like an official like DID diagnosis, even the doctor was like, you know, he went to his colleagues, he went to his university trying to find something to give him a reference as to what our case was. And the closest he could find was DID. But even then he's like, I really don't know. (0:13:09)
But here's the closest diagnosis. I would just throw it right out the window. Frankly, I think we have to admit the medical profession hasn't encountered a person like you and they don't have a good category. Actually, I would suggest for any of our viewers or listeners who are experiencing something similar, it would be very useful if we could document a dozen different cases that are, let's say, part of the same spectrum to which you belong so that we can establish this as a thing, that you're not just the only one out there by yourself willing to be public. (0:13:52)
Yeah, that would be great if we had more people to back it up and more situations. And I think that this is worth digging into because it hints at the nature of the soul. (0:13:59)
It hints at the nature of our spirituality. And I think that merging of science and spirituality is a really good thing, even though there's going to be a lot of resistance in the scientific community. We're hoping with Alex's help and other researchers that we'll be able to understand how this works in the brain. (0:14:26)
Now, the brain's kind of like an instrument. Yeah, exactly. Well, you do play an instrument. You brought your guitar-lele. Yeah, guitar-lele. And we'll take it out later. But when you say the brain is an instrument, it made me think maybe the brain is almost like the way the two of you can do duets on your guitar-lele. You're playing the brain like you're having a duet. (0:14:57)
Yeah, that's exactly what it's like. We use meditation to kind of move in and out of the body. We use it to decrease awareness throughout the body so that the other person can come in. And when Tristan first came back, because if you're not aware that it's an instrument, you may not know how to play it. (0:15:12)
And so, when he first came back to the body, one of the most difficult things we had was that the brain was just full of so many thoughts. It was two people's thoughts, and it was so confusing. And we were dealing with glitches and ticks. Early on, we had a lot of biological problems, like struggling to not choke and things like that. And now, we've learned how to play it. (0:15:34)
We've learned how to play that instrument. And so now, we just make music together and dance all day. Well, so that's a good thing. And I know I want to talk more about some of the details of what it's like playing the brain as an instrument. But I thought it'd be very interesting to share with our viewers and listeners the experience you had on the ski trip. (0:16:05)
Okay. Yeah, sure. Okay. So, the ski trip happened back in February. Actually, January. And what happened was, is that my friend invited both Tristan and myself to Mount Hood to go skiing. And I've never been skiing before. So, I was like, oh, this is... I was really nervous about it. I was like, okay, this will be a really fun experience. But Tristan, on the other hand, he grew up next to a ski resort. (0:16:25)
And so, he spent his entire childhood skiing. So... Let me stop for a minute because there'll be viewers who haven't watched the earlier videos. And we should establish just for the clarity. That's a good point. Tristan was the original person born in this body. Yes, that's correct. Annika appeared when you were... 22. 22. And then there was a time when you felt you were dying, Tristan. And you decided Annika wanted the body and she should have it because she had a life as well. And you basically left the body for five years. (0:17:05)
Yes. So, when she said, when Tristan came back, after five years, it's as if Annika summoned you back. (0:17:13)
Yeah, she did. Because when I left the body, I had no intention of coming back. For me, I thought I was dying. I wasn't spiritual. I was atheist. I was... I didn't really believe in any of this. But there was this knowing, this undercurrent that I couldn't ignore. And I recognized her as her own person, her own soul. (0:17:38)
And I realized that life had not been easy for her because of the way she came in. And so I gave her the body and I said, you can take it. I want you to live your life. I want you to, you know, grow old, you know, experience earth. I want you to live. (0:17:57)
And so I left. And then five years later, she figured out some sort of meditation or something and managed to pull me back to the body. And then I was in absolute shock. I had to come to the reality of everything that happened. And then we had to navigate life together. It was a real challenge. (0:18:17)
It was a real challenge. So, and I think the fascinating thing about that is you had no memory at all of the intervening five years. No. There's some vague knowings of places and things, but I don't have like a strong memory of it. And when I came back, I was so disoriented and afraid, to be honest, and overwhelmed that I don't think even if I, I don't know, it's like a dream. (0:18:43)
I mean, maybe after so long, you just, it fades or you don't remember it. But yeah, I was, it was, it was basically from 2000, the beginning of 2017 to 2021. I just jumped through time. It was like back to the future or something where suddenly, you know, there was, I went from, let's see, Trump had just won. And then I went to Biden. So it was like this massive jump in everything. I didn't know about the pandemic. (0:19:10)
I didn't know about the Oregon wildfires. I didn't know about the insurrection. I knew nothing that had happened. And so it was definitely an overwhelming experience. Anyhow, you eventually adjusted to your new situation, having been summoned back into the body. And now we're on the ski trip. Okay. So ski trip. (0:19:43)
Okay. So for the ski trip. So the first half, I spent it alone on the ski slope with my friends and they were, they were learning how to ski and snowboard. And I was learning how to ski and snowboard. And my friend's dad actually took me up the bunny hill and was like showing me how to ski. (0:19:59)
And as I was skiing, you know, like I, I was crashing and like, I ended up going backwards at one point and like falling really hard and it was really difficult. But as I was starting to get it, I thought, wow, you know, maybe I'm starting to like access Tristan's muscle memory or something. (0:20:12)
Cause I don't know how it works. So I'm thinking, wow, okay. Like that was really good. Like, you know, maybe, maybe I'm tapping into something of his, you know, like the, and that the body has some sort of memory of it. And then, and then about like after most of the day I'd gone by and I'd like practiced and done my thing, everybody else kind of scattered off. (0:20:34)
And so I laid down on a picnic bench right by the, right by the lodge and I brought him into the body. And then- And where had he been the whole time? (0:20:39)
He'd been in, it's sort of like when we leave the body, we enter like this fourth dimensional states where like, he tends to go upstream to this place in his childhood where he spent a lot of time that was very spiritually powerful, powerful for him. And I do the same. I go to like my childhood home, um, where, you know, I came into the body at first with, with Tristan. And so we go to these separate places and then when we want to go get the other person, we'll actually meditate, go there, maybe talk for a little bit. (0:21:15)
And then we hug and then the other person will pull them into the body. And so that's, that's kind of how we do it. So he was out, he was upstream, we like to say. And, um, I guess it could also be like interpreted as like the field of consciousness. And yeah, I don't know where it is. It's inner. It's, it's a, it's a strange place. (0:21:40)
Um, and it's, and it's just as vivid as real life. It's like just as real. It's just, it's beautiful. It's wonderful. So it's, it's, it's an interesting place. But, um, for the ski trip, I brought him into the, into the body and then he was overjoyed. Yeah. Cause like I hadn't skied since I was 18. And one of the interesting facts about this is that, um, she had never seen me ski. (0:22:01)
Now for clarity, once again, how old are you, Tristan? The body's 38. Body's 38. And so we could say, even though there were five missing years, you're 38. Yeah. I, I think, well, I like to say that I have 33 years of experience on planet earth and she's got 16 years of experience on planet earth. So yeah. So we have a 16 year old and a 33 year old souls inhabiting this body. (0:22:36)
Just for clarity for our viewers. Oh, okay. Let's return now to the ski slope. Um, well, do you want to go into it? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So basically, um, I was excited. I was, I was like, I get to be a kid again. I hadn't skied since I was 18 and I never got the chance to go skiing as an adult. (0:23:00)
So from age 22 till, you know, just recently I hadn't been skiing. So she never got to experience me skiing with the body. So this was a new experience for the both of us. Um, but as soon as I got the body, I felt great. I, you know, it took me a little bit to shake off what we call spirit sickness. (0:23:16)
When you first come into the body after being away, it's almost like you're really weak and you can't control the body very well. And you're like, you have to kind of shake it off and like really get into the arms and the legs. Um, so after I had shaken it off, um, you know, I went, I went for it. (0:23:30)
I just went straight to the top of the mountain and took on a black diamond, just like I did when I was 18. Um, and I just, I just want to add, um, when he took over the body, I had like my first realization because it was, it was, it was almost scary because the body recognized him in a way that it didn't. I don't know. (0:23:50)
All of a sudden it was like he, his soul just flowed into all of the muscles and the muscles just started responding to him. (0:23:55)
And it was like, Whoa, Whoa, this, this isn't my body. Like this is, this is really weird. And so I started feeling like really, really weird. And then it took me from the bottom of the ski slope to the picnic tables. It took me five minutes on skis to navigate over there. And meanwhile, when he took over the body, he traversed that distance in like a few seconds. (0:24:15)
Like he had so much skill and muscle memory and it just was, it was shocking. And then I had spent the day on the bunny hill and he went right to a black diamond and I was just nervous and scared of the bunny hill. So like to suddenly be at the top of a mountain and then like, he's just like, okay, we're going to do it. (0:24:37)
Um, was terrifying. So I was really, really scared. Um, but you can, you can go on. Well, okay. So I, I went down the mountain. I, I, I was enjoying it. I was going as fast as I could. I was pushing the body. Um, it was, it was, it was just like I was 18 again. It felt great. Um, the muscles were a little bit weaker. (0:24:53)
I couldn't, I couldn't keep it up as long as I didn't have the same stamina, I think. But, uh, yeah, I've raced down the mountain, was cutting into it, really enjoying it, hitting moguls, jumps. It was, it was fantastic. And I was panicking the entire time. I was absolutely terrified. And then at one point, um, and I mean like really, really terrified, like scared, scared. (0:25:19)
And then at one point, um, he was racing down this one section of the mountain and all of a sudden I realized I could see. And, but my sight, cause you know, when you're skiing, you have these goggles on and they're tinted. So normally when you're looking through the eyes and you can see like the frame of the goggles, you can see the tint of the, the, the, the plastic, um, all of a sudden that was gone. (0:25:40)
And I was seeing like the mountain and I was seeing more than just the mountain. I was seeing like around me, like almost 360. So I was seeing like up the mountain and I was seeing skiers like around me. And I was like, what, what is going on? What is going on? And I was like, why? Like, what am I not moving? Like what's, what's happening? And I was confused. (0:26:04)
And then I panicked and tried to get into the body. Uh, from my perspective, um, I was just skiing. So I didn't, this is something she told me when we got to the bottom. I didn't know that she had somehow popped out of the body and was now behind me. I felt her presence behind me and to the right, but I didn't think much of it. (0:26:22)
But then right after she apparently had this experience, she started panicking, trying to come into the body and trying to like really get into it. And I had to, I had to yell at her cause we were going really fast at that point. (0:26:34)
And I was like, you have to get out of the body now, or we're going to crash. Because as she was starting to try and take over the legs, they started, you know, pizza pieing. And there was like, they were starting to noodle and wobble. And it was clearly like, almost like a beginner was trying to take over the body and didn't know how to handle what was going on. (0:26:52)
So I had to yell at her to get out of the body, which didn't help. No. Um, cause, but when we got down to the bottom of the mountain, I was feeling great. I was feeling, I was like, yes, I get to getting to be myself, getting to ski. I felt in my element and I was like, all right, well, we're at the chairlift. (0:27:05)
So, you know, and there's people around, so I'll just give you the body. So I dropped the body on her and then she just started crying. And I realized that I maybe had not handled that very well, that I was so excited to ski that I kind of ignored how she might be feeling or if this was going to be scary. Um, so yeah. And I, I felt absolutely guilty. I was, I was, I was devastated. (0:27:29)
Um, so you want to... Yeah. Um, I broke down. I like, it was, it was overwhelming. Like, not only was the out of body experience just like shocking, but also like, I had never felt Tristan's mindset like that before, where he was so aggressive and so like masculine and yeah, I'm going to hit all the jumps and I'm going to do this. (0:27:52)
And, and it was like this very physical it. And, and also like, I never knew him as a child or as a, as a teenager. So this was, it was like, he kind of reverted to that state. So he felt like a stranger and it was like almost, I didn't know him. (0:28:09)
I didn't, I didn't know him like this or know that he could do this. And so it was, it was really scary and I was emotionally overwhelmed. So I just started crying in the, in the line for the chairlift. Um, and then we did like another run and he was a little bit more diplomatic. Yeah. I felt really bad. (0:28:25)
So I was like, well, we can, you know, I'll let you ski a little bit and then I'll ski a little bit. And I was very gentle and I was like, yeah, you're doing a great job. You know, pizza pie, French fry, you know, you know, be careful, do this. (0:28:41)
And that was, that was nicer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I, I felt really bad. And then, um, afterwards, like, um, cause we only got to do like that one last run. We went to, um, like return the skis, do the snow boots. And then, um, again, I was with around my friend's family and some of their family knows, some of them don't. And so Tristan decided to leave. (0:29:01)
And so he meditated, he left the body and I was so overwhelmed by the experience that I didn't bring him back to the body for three days. Um, I just left him out, you know, um, because... And he's upstream at this point. Did you use that? (0:29:17)
Yes, exactly. So, so there's a distinction between being out of the body and for Tristan going upstream to a childhood place that he loved or you going back to a childhood space that you remembered and have fond memories of. That's different than being out of your body on the ski slope where you have 360 degree vision of this three-dimensional world. Exactly. It's like the difference between still being here, but being detached from the body and being outside of it in this material plane versus when we leave the body, we're like going to like an afterlife realm or some sort of astral or somewhere. (0:30:05)
Um, and the other person has to actually come and get you to bring you into the body and they can't just come in on their own. Because that's what you started to do. You came back on your own into the body on the ski slope. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I was having like an out of body experience and then I was like, where's the body, you know, like that panic. (0:30:24)
And then, I mean, it was like, I need to feel it, I need to feel it. And then immediately, like, you know, I like snapped into the body and started to like push into the, into the muscles, into the body. And I could see through the goggles again. And, you know, I was panicking. And then that's when Tristan was like, you need to get out of the body now or we're going to crash. (0:30:40)
Because he's going like 50 miles an hour. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I was like, I don't know, I didn't like, I was not going, I never went that fast on the bunny slope. So I was like, I don't know what to do. And so, yeah, I was, I was a mess. I was an absolute mess. Is this the first time you've had that sort of out of body experience in the 3D world, but not in your body? (0:31:02)
The only other time that's happened that was similar that I can relate it to is when I first entered Tristan's body. And this is like a pre-birth memory. And I was like some sort of ball of light or something. And I was outside his body. And I was watching him and his ex hugging at the top of the stairs. And then I felt this magnetic pull and I was like pulled into his body. (0:31:30)
That's like my early childhood memory. And I think we may have mentioned it on the last interview. I think especially mine, I think, which is like the second one. That's the only thing I can relate because in that memory, I also could see like in almost a 360 view of everything. And I could see everything with such incredible detail. So, yeah, that's the only experience I can relate it to. (0:31:53)
So, I guess one thing I want to make clear is that we're talking about two distinct experiences, one of which we could call astral travel and the other we could call an out of body experience. (0:32:07)
And they're very different. Yeah, very different. Yep. Yeah, it definitely, definitely. And then Tristan ended up having an out of body experience just last month because I got like after I had this experience, I got really into understanding it more. And I was like, well, because it was really interesting because while I was out of the body, he still had the body. (0:32:33)
So, most cases I've heard of out of body experiences, you know, if because they only have one soul, like when they leave, the body's not doing anything, you know, it's asleep on the bed, it's laying there, it's in the hospital room, and they're looking at their body versus the body I was attached to was still going down the mountain. And it was like it was being piloted by somebody else. (0:32:51)
So, that made it interesting. But then so I wanted to know, hey, what could we both get out of the body? Could we spend time having an out of body experience together? And what would that be like? What would it be like to what would happen to the body and all these questions. So, I started looking up and doing research on out of body experiences. (0:33:12)
And we started practicing different protocols and techniques to forcefully have out of body experiences. And then do you want to tell us or? Yeah, you should tell us. You should tell us. I talked to him. Okay. Yeah. So, I ended up having an out of body experience. And it was it's interesting because I didn't necessarily when she got down to the bottom of the mountain, when we got down to the mountain and I gave her the body, there was and she told me what had happened. (0:33:37)
I had a really hard time believing her because I didn't experience it. The entire time I was skiing, I was in the body. I was going downhill. I didn't see anything strange. And here she was now telling me about it and sharing this memory of being out of body. And to me, it was like, really? Like, really, really? You actually had this? This actually happened? And I had trouble believing her. (0:33:57)
And then something similar happened. So, a month later, after we'd done all this research, and we were practicing it daily, all of a sudden, we were really tired from work, we were exhausted. And we had this dream where it was sort of like a falling dream. We were in our place in our home. And then the home sort of started to fall over. (0:34:24)
And you could feel that falling sensation. And then we both woke up. But then immediately went back to sleep. When we went back to sleep, I realized that I was dreaming. I looked outside and I saw leaves on the trees. And I'm like, it's winter. Why would there be leaves on the trees? That doesn't make sense. And then I went, Oh, I'm dreaming. And then immediately I went into the out of body protocol. (0:34:44)
And I started lifting out of the body. And I all of a sudden, I heard this almost like an organic Velcro or whooshing sound or something. It was really intense and loud, but I didn't, I don't know if I necessarily heard it with my ears. It was like a vibration or something. And then, and I could feel like my entire upper body was tingling and vibrating. (0:35:10)
And I pulled out of the body just a little bit. And I noticed that she wasn't coming with me. I could feel like that I could feel her energy, her energy body or something. And it was still in the body. And I was only like halfway out. The legs weren't out yet. (0:35:24)
And my whole upper body was vibrating. And then I also noticed that there was some sort of resonance between our two souls or energy bodies. And so I was like, okay, if she's not coming with me, I'm going to go back in the body. So I just went back in. And yeah, that was the extent of my out of body experience. (0:35:46)
So you got about halfway up. Yeah, I got about halfway up. Did you have the 360 degree vision? Yeah, it was very strange. I was still like halfway. So I had, yeah, it was really weird. It was like a sight, but not like a normal sight. It was not as tunnel visioned. (0:36:09)
It was more expansive. And also I was really intent on like feeling the body too. So I felt like I could feel energy. It was very strange. I could feel her soul in the body. I could feel each part resonating and the whole body was just vibrating. It was very strange. Well, at this point, it's fair to say you've probably been in and out of the body hundreds of times. Yeah, that's true. (0:36:32)
But normally not having an out of body experience, but rather going into when you go out of the body, normally you just go into a meditative state or upstream or... Exactly, exactly. It's different. We're leaving this plane, this density, we're going somewhere else versus being here still, but just being outside of the body as a soul. So yeah, that's the big difference. It's really fascinating. (0:37:05)
Mm hmm. So now the two of you are still experimenting with techniques for leaving the body and having this out of body experience within the three dimensional realm. Yeah, we're still playing around with it. And also, I just want to add, I didn't believe him when he came back into the body. He was like, I left the body. I got out, like I was like halfway out. (0:37:31)
But I realized, you know, you weren't coming with me. And I was exhausted and tired. And I just, I didn't care in that moment. And I didn't realize he was lifting out. So I was just laying there and I was like, what is going on? Because my entire upper body, the physical body was vibrating. (0:37:47)
I felt like every cell in the body was like... So I felt the vibration. So I believe him when he says he got out. It's just, I didn't experience it. I was just, I was laying there trying to sleep and in a groggy, half awake state. So it was really strange. Well, the other thing you alluded to here is the idea that you can be in a dream space together. You can have a shared dream. (0:38:13)
Yeah. Yeah. We share dream spaces all the time. Sometimes one person can dream and the other person doesn't. And then they'll, like when we wake up, we'll often share our dreams because we'll either, we have a shared dream, we'll remember different pieces of it because we'll have different perspective on the dream or we'll have certain elements of the dream that resonated or, I don't know, maybe spoke to us more than other parts. (0:38:39)
So we can kind of get an idea of a little bit more of the dream by talking to each other afterwards. And it's taken us a while. I don't know if like our dream spaces had to like adjust to it or something because when Tristan first came back to the body, oh my God, our dreams were so chaotic. (0:38:56)
It was like, we were trying to like the dreams, like different elements were getting placed. And it was like, some pieces were me, some pieces were him. And it was like, it was like a really chaotic thing. And the other thing that we had to work on, which is funny because I actually have another way here too, is that one person can fall asleep before the other person, which is a really weird sensation because all of a sudden, you know, I feel his presence, he's there. (0:39:19)
And then all of a sudden, he just conks out and he goes unconscious. And I feel like his thoughts just like disappear. (0:39:24)
And then things kind of get like really weird. Like it's almost like I'm starting to hallucinate and the body becomes like hard to move, like paralyzed. And so like on the way here, like Tristan kept falling asleep on the plane and I did not want to fall asleep. So I had to keep bumping him and going, hey, hey, you're falling asleep. (0:39:47)
You're falling asleep. Yeah, because I actually started dreaming on the plane. And so I'll start to start dreaming. And then all of a sudden she comes into it and is like, hey, you're dreaming, you're dreaming, wake up, wake up. And then I'll be like, oh, OK, yeah, sorry about that. And, you know, that happened a couple of times. So I was listening to an audio book and he kept falling asleep. (0:40:08)
Yeah, it was. So that's that's another unusual thing. I think it's really cute. I love it when she falls asleep first, because, you know, it's just this nice I don't know, it's like it's like when you're laying in bed with a loved one and they're asleep, it's like it's this very calming presence. You suddenly realize you're alone, but at the same time they're they're there and they're vulnerable. I don't know. It's it's I've always enjoyed that sensation. (0:40:31)
Well, it suggests, though, that when one of you is awake and the other one is asleep, at least for for Annika, that's that's not so comfortable. She wants you to be awake, Tristan, when she's awake. I'm comfortable when he falls asleep, but just not on the plane when I'm trying to do something. You know what I mean? Like if I'm trying to listen to a book and he starts falling asleep, it's like, hey, hey, wake up, wake up, because like, you know, because if I don't wake him up, then like the hallucinations kind of start because it's like he's starting to dream and I'm starting to hear some of the dream or experience some of the dream. And the same is true for you. (0:41:08)
Yeah. So like if she falls asleep, it's cute. But then after about a minute or so, it's like, yeah, there's like visual hallucinations. There's like weird stuff. It's like a hypnagogic kind of thing. And you're just kind of taking it in and it can be a little nerve wracking because you're like, oh, man, I'm hearing the dream. I'm hearing their stuff. And there's like shapes and geometry and all sorts of weird stuff. (0:41:33)
So, yeah, we tend to and then it's really hard not to fall asleep with them, too, after they've gone into that state, because then if you start to pay attention to what they're doing and you start getting sucked into it as well. So all of a sudden, we'll all end up asleep, too. Now, what about the use of entheogens or other intoxicants or altered states of consciousness induced through substances? How does that work? If you take, let's just say hypothetically, cannabis or alcohol and one of you is stoned, how does the other one feel? (0:42:11)
OK, I'm really glad you asked that because when Tristan came back to the body, I was a really heavy weed smoker. Like I smoke marijuana pretty often. I had like a vape and he had never done weed in his life. (0:42:23)
Yeah, I had avoided drugs my whole life. So it was a new experience for me. But go ahead. So that was actually one of the first things that really threw us off because it was not what we expected. We expected that if we are smoking or intoxicated, specifically marijuana, alcohol, we're both really kind of drunk, I would say, or there, you know, one of us can be a little bit more sober or they're fighting the alcohol a little bit more. (0:42:54)
But when it came to weed, there was something weird. And that was that one of us could be completely stoned and like goofy and laughy and, you know, everything that you think of, like total total stoner kind of stuff, you know. And the other person was not. And they were clear and they were they were almost even more clear than they would be normally. (0:43:15)
And we were like, what's going on? And so early on, we were just randomly trading the high back and forth and like. Yeah, I don't know. I didn't understand how that could happen in the brain. You know, I had done a little bit more neuroscience research and I was like, this shouldn't be happening. Like, how can this be happening? What's going on? Because it should affect us both equally. So, yeah, I didn't know what the method of action was. (0:43:39)
But over time, we started to learn something. And that was that it depended on your frequency of consciousness, that the marijuana allowed you to, if you used it for meditation, you could achieve higher frequencies of consciousness. And so one person could be vibrating higher and have this clarity and almost have like this spiritual insight, whereas the other person might not be. (0:44:09)
And then we learned that if we both focused on that frequency, we meditated, we could both achieve that frequency. And that's when we started having really intense spiritual experiences because we realized that this was something we could control on and off weed by meditating and achieving these higher densities of consciousness. And the best part was, is when we got into those higher states, we could switch the body like it was nothing. Like sometimes it's a struggle. Sometimes it's like we're fighting over it. (0:44:36)
And if we're especially we're in lower vibrations, it's like the body is kind of shaky and, you know, there's glitches and things. But in these states, it was like you just... the switches were just so smooth and it was just... and we had this spiritual insight. And then, you know, over time, over like... we don't smoke anymore because it comes with a cost. (0:44:58)
While it gives you that spiritual insight and you can use it as to experience higher densities, you're going to end up... it also makes going into lower densities a lot easier. And that's why people get like paranoid and they get scared or they have panic attacks. It's because that vibration, you have to really control it and know what you're doing and know how to meditate your way out of things like paranoia and get into those higher densities. (0:45:24)
Otherwise, you are going to crash and end up in those lower densities so much more easier. It almost makes it easier to get into higher states and lower states. So you have to be really careful to which one you're in and know. It's also really helpful that we can tell each other. I can be like, hey, you're in a lower state of consciousness, your frequency is off. (0:45:47)
And then I can actually use my soul energetically to help pull her up into a higher frequency. Yeah, that's a move we do often. (0:45:53)
Because if he ends up in a lower frequency, I can actually... I don't know. It's like I can move my energy through his chakras and cause him to elevate and unblock things and it gets really weird. Yeah. And the other thing too, is when she goes into higher density states, and this goes for either of us, one of us can end up in say, you know, fifth density or even sixth density. (0:46:24)
And then it becomes harder and harder to understand the concepts that they're relaying to you because it's a different way of thinking and a different state of consciousness. So it's sort of like they become, you know, raw in terms of like the law of one, that kind of material, they become like their higher self. (0:46:42)
And suddenly they're able to tell you things about, you know, consciousness and reality that you just don't have access to here, you know, in a lower state. And like, I remember asking her question after question, after question, after question. And I couldn't quite understand the concepts. It didn't match my reality. So she was like in a different reality state of consciousness. (0:47:08)
But that doesn't make it not true either. It's like they just, when you're in that state, they have a different understanding of reality and really weird coincidences, synchronicity start happening. And it just, it gets really, really strange. I say that in their density. Yeah. And this is something that everybody can do. The densities are real, you know, and this isn't just the law of one or like this it's talked like Jesus talks about it. (0:47:37)
Jesus is talks about like fourth density. He uses parables to talk about it. And, you know, he talks about fourth and fifth density. And then you have Krishna talking about fifth and sixth density in the Bhagavad Gita. So like these, it's all a part of, it's all in the spiritual works. You mean Jesus actually said fourth density? No, he didn't say fourth density. (0:47:58)
Fifth density. No, no. This is my interpretation, my distortion, because I resonated really well with the law of one. So everybody's talking about the same thing. They're just talking about it through a different lens. And one of the most difficult things is when you're in a higher density is trying to communicate with those who are in a lower frequency because they won't understand what you're saying. (0:48:18)
It will cause confusion. It doesn't seem to match the reality they're experiencing. And so that's something that we've had to learn to work on is how to communicate. And Jesus was great because he's talking about fourth density things, but he's not saying fourth density. He's not like Ra where Ra kind of sounds like an engineer or a scientist laying it all out specifically. (0:48:40)
Whereas Jesus is like giving parables and doing things that consciousnesses who are in third density will understand to be able to get to fourth density in first place. And Krishna is the same way, talking about helping third density, maybe fourth density beings achieve fifth density and understanding even sixth density. So it's all there. It just depends on what works for you and your interpretation of it. (0:49:05)
So... Okay. Now, I want to go back to something one of you said earlier, I forget who, about chakras. (0:49:13)
Okay. Yeah. You, I think it was you, Anika, you said something about you can work with Tristan's chakras. Yes. Yes. So in other words, you share one body, but you each have, because you're separate souls, you each have your own chakras. Yes. Yes. And we also got a chakra reading from someone in the Experiencer community who specializes in reading chakras. (0:49:43)
And they also confirmed that we had two sets individual for our souls, two sets of chakras. So that was confirming, but also, you know, in these meditative states, if Tristan is having a difficult time, I can feel his chakra and then I can use my energy to sort of flow into it and unblock it and help him. Do you want to describe it? (0:50:03)
Yeah. So it's cool because we even got it on video this one time. And so it's really incredible. Like I'll be there and I'll be kind of nervous or something. And then she'll be like, Hey, you're, you know, your fourth chakra is blocked. And when it comes to chakras, it's, it's very much a part of your consciousness. (0:50:23)
It's very much your, the frame of mind that you're stuck in as much as it is this physical part in the body that corresponds to the chakra. And so all of a sudden I'll feel this incredible release or this energy flow upwards or one chakra all of a sudden I'll just feel like this overwhelming emotion or it's just, it's incredible. And then she'll pull me up into higher densities of consciousness through the crown chakra. (0:50:55)
It's incredible. It's, there's no words to really describe that sensation of this explosive energy and transformation into higher densities. It's incredible. So can you work with her chakras as well? Yes. Cause if she's struggling with something and that depends, you know, like if she's struggling with something in her personal life that is giving her trouble and she has some sort of blockage I can do the same and, and help assist her energy and push my energy into her chakras and help her to open up. (0:51:26)
And cause when you get into those higher states, you can very easily see the lower states and what the problem is that they're running into. And so you can then help them overcome that by highlighting it and pushing your energy through. So I guess it's fair to say that because in effect, you were forced to come to terms with this idea of two souls in one body. It's not as if it's something you deliberately chose. (0:51:53)
It just happened. No, I had to contend with it. That's what I like to say. I didn't like, I was an atheist. I didn't believe any of this. I thought chakra is garbage. You know, I really was anti-spiritual completely for the majority of my life, but you know, our experience together completely transformed my understanding of everything. (0:52:16)
And so even chakras, that's something that I've come to terms with do exist because I can feel them. I know when she's working with them, I can, I understand when I have a blockage in which one, and she can read which one that... So it's like, it's not something that I get to choose. It's something I have to contend with, just like you have to contend with a brick wall that's in front of you, or you have to contend with certain aspects of your life that you can't change. (0:52:38)
I've had to contend with the spiritual reality that exists. (0:52:40)
Which is, I would think, a great gift. Yes, a great gift. It's been absolutely transformative in every aspect of my life. I am so incredibly grateful that she came into my life, that we've had this experience together. It has helped us ascend and to experience and spend more time in higher densities and embody our higher selves. (0:53:14)
It's the mission while we're here to do. And so, yeah, I am unbelievably grateful for this experience. Well, before we close this interview, I want to get into one other issue, which is your, Tristan, your memories going back to early childhood of some sort of a non-human presence that's been interacting with you. Some people might say, oh, you just had night terrors. You get paralyzed at night and feel this terror. (0:53:44)
That's one of the interpretations of the UFO abduction kind of experience. And I'm not clear that you ever felt you were abducted, but there's been this presence in your life. Yeah. And, you know, people might... and if they're not ready to accept this reality, that's fine. And they might say, oh, it's a night terror. It's sleep paralysis. It's hypnagogic. That's fine. (0:54:09)
Some people aren't ready to address this greater spiritual reality and the reality that there are beings interacting with us. But I know that it was real, that even if these were altered states of consciousness, that I was having these interactions. And so from a very early age, I was terrified of the movie E.T. because these E.T. beings, which I think was somewhat of a screen memory, they would show up in my bedroom or in the house. (0:54:46)
And as soon as they did, I could feel their presence. And that's the unmistakable, I know, calling card is that their consciousness, you can feel it through walls. You can feel it through everything. It permeates the area. It's like having a whale in the house. It's like you can't ignore something that huge suddenly shifting in through the house. It's overwhelming. And as soon as I would feel that, it was almost like it would trigger my body. (0:55:10)
I would feel absolutely terrified and panic. And then if I saw them, if I walked out into the living room or they came into the bedroom, I would end up paralyzed. And so suddenly I couldn't move and I couldn't do anything. And then I could feel them approaching and approaching and approaching. And I'd become so terrified that then I'd black out. (0:55:30)
Then I'd wake up in my bed in the morning. And there were times where I was like, you know, I have vague memories of these states where I was like on my grandmother's porch frozen standing up and the beings were around. And yeah, and my parents didn't understand why I was so terrified of E.T. I mean, to the point of where I couldn't look at the box. I couldn't look at any images. If it came on TV, I'd, you know, end up having to hide. (0:55:53)
It was overwhelming to a point where it wasn't normal. And over time, because these experiences happened all the way into my twenties. So it's not like, oh, I grew out of this. It was like constant. It was a constant presence in my life. Probably a little bit more common when I was a child. But as I got older, I kind of made my peace and I kind of even became friends with these beings on some level. (0:56:26)
And I just accepted that they were friends. They never hurt me. They never, they never, yeah, I was terrified of them, but that's on me. You know, that's my state that I was in. But they never, they never, they never hurt me. At most, I felt like they tickled me, which is such a weird thing to say. (0:56:43)
But sometimes I would feel these long fingers or something like tickling my body. And it was so strange. There's so few people I've even told this. So it feels weird saying it. But yeah, it was, it was, it was never malicious. And when I was younger, I was also really sick. (0:57:05)
And I also had like health conditions. And so I don't know if they helped me overcome these or if like, if I was abducted, they helped me with that. I don't know for certain, but it definitely feels like a friendly interaction. (0:57:16)
Is there communication? Do you have any exchanges of any kind with them? I think the limiting factor has always been my state of consciousness, being in such a fierce state and wrapped up in my own thoughts. If anything, it was probably to not be afraid. But at the same time, no direct communication, except Annika has maybe had communication. So I'm going to pass it to you. (0:57:47)
Um, yeah, so I've had, like, so I've heard the stories of Tristan's experiences. And, and also wait, you have to, you have to finish the one thing. So the writing. Okay, I wasn't sure if I should mention that. No, no, it's really cool. Okay, so yeah, so I, I used to have these dreams where I'd go to this alternate reality. And I, and I dream the same dream, and it'd be the same characters to be the same place over and over and over again. (0:58:17)
And one of the beings there was E.T., but I made friends or something. It was, I don't, I don't really know. These were dreams. But, um, one of the things was, it kind of gave me this, it opened up my mind to like other dimensions, you know, and the understanding of it. And so I kind of made this giant map and I wrote this story about it. (0:58:33)
And then I signed it with my name saying, you know, by Tristan. And then I got to the next line. I was like, well, you know, I'd really like to add E.T.'s signature here. Cause I felt like, you know, he helped me understand this somehow. And so I just kind of sat there and I was like, well, what, how would he sign it? And so all of a sudden I was like, I think it's like this. (0:58:52)
And so I started writing the name and it, but it was, it was not in English. It was just these circles and dots and lines. How old were you when this happened? I was probably 10 or maybe, maybe 12 or 13. Early on. Early on. A young child. Yes. A young child. And so I wrote this script and signed his name. (0:59:18)
And then years, just recently in the last year, um, Danny Sheehan, he came out and he, apparently he went into a skiff at one point and he got access to classified information where he got to see some of the writing on some of the crafts or some of the hieroglyphs or whatever you want to call it, the script. (0:59:32)
And he managed to smuggle it out of the skiff. He like wrote it down and he, and so he posted on the internet that writing and it looks identical to the writing on that paper. You saved that from when you were 10 years old. Yes. Um, it disappeared for a time in my life. (0:59:51)
My dad had it for a bit and then just out of the blue, he, he sent it all to me, um, last year. Uh, so I got to go through it all again. (0:59:57)
And it was like, oh, things are starting to make sense. I've always had these interactions and this was, this was something real. So it was, yeah. Yeah. Well, do you think there's any connection whatsoever between these childhood experiences and then your adult experience of, of having Anika's soul enter your body and now you're sharing it with her? Um, yeah, I would say, like Anika and I understand that we chose to do this before we came into, before we incarnated, that pre-birth, we had pre-birth agreements. (1:00:38)
We wanted to learn. We wanted to, we were ready for this. Um, this was something that we chose to do before we came into the body and before I was even born. And so I think that they have been helping or assisting with that process and, uh, especially helping whatever the body needed to be able to handle this or undertake it. (1:01:01)
Um, or, or even if I had a hard time as a soul, like attaching the body, I don't know. Um, yeah, I, I, I feel like they have definitely, it's all tied together. So there's a sense in which you and Anika are not totally alone. You've got helpers. Yes, absolutely. Yep. Definitely. Definitely. And I've like, um, is it okay? Yeah, it's fine. (1:01:27)
Go for it. So I've gotten to experience a little bit of his beings too, in that I've had a few times where I've ended up in that dream state and I had never experienced it until he came back into the body. And then I started interacting with these beings to some extent. Um, every now and then, like, like I've had them break into dreams. (1:01:43)
I've had them be a presence in the room. And like Tristan describes when they're in the room or in the house, it's, it's, it is, it's like having a whale suddenly show up in your house and it's making the whale noises. So you can like really feel it. And you're like, and you're like, oh my God. Um, and it is, it's overwhelming. (1:02:04)
It just overwhelms everything in the area. And you feel almost like your consciousness can get lost in this sea of, of just everything. Um, and so we've had a couple experiences where they've been in the house or moved through the house. Um, and you can totally feel them. (1:02:21)
And I've even had dreams where I had an interaction in a dream once where all of a sudden, and it's so easy to tell, like, I've gotten really used to knowing when like I'm having an interaction in a dream because you feel their presence. It's overwhelming. The dream feels vividly real. (1:02:33)
It's not like a normal dream at all. It's not like, oh, something weird is going on in my daily life. It's like, they're there. Like you just know it. And so I was like outside and I was like in the dream, in this dream state. And then all of a sudden a UFO showed up like a, like a flying saucer. And it was moving through the clouds and it had like these white lights on it. (1:02:50)
And as soon as I saw it, that overwhelming presence just hit my consciousness. And it was, it was, it wasn't malicious. It wasn't benevolent. It was just this overwhelming presence. (1:03:06)
And then the communication that I got was, and it's going to sound weird, but the closest thing I can describe to this communication was, you know, you are, I don't want to say like boots on the ground, but like, you're here to help others. You're, you're here to bridge the gap. Something like that, something, something, I don't know. (1:03:31)
It's so hard to translate this purely telepathic communication. And the dream's imagery was important. And it just like, and then all of a sudden I woke up and I was like, that presence was still there. Do you know what I mean? Like it wasn't, it doesn't like you wake up and that presence doesn't leave. Like as soon as you wake up, it's still there for a bit and then it fades. (1:03:52)
So it was, or you can feel it moving away from you, like, oh, like going through the house and leaving. So yeah, I've, I've gotten to experience it. So the message is that you're on a mission of... Yes, yes. To help others, to help them understand that they're, they're God, they're source, they're divine, that they're immortal, that they're a soul, not just a body, that there's, that the way forward is love, compassion, acceptance, not victimizing and blaming or, or it's, it's about taking responsibility and accepting who you are and to look inward at the self. So absolutely, yeah, it's, that's definitely been the message. (1:04:30)
Last time you were here in Albuquerque, you brought your guitar. This time I see you've got a new instrument. It's a guitarlele. So it's a ukulele and a guitar combined into one, which is fitting considering our situation, two things in one. So I understand you've written some new songs as well. We have. (1:05:00)
We'd like to play also the one we played last time as well, because we've had a lot of time to practice. And so we figured we'd, we'd play that as well. Probably start with that one, but yeah, we wrote some new songs too. Well, I'm sure our viewers will love to hear them. Okay, great. Ready? Yeah, all set. Okay, all yours. All right, here we go. (1:05:18)
And I didn't have no folks to guide my soul. My child so wild, the devil left me alone. Bless his soul. And can you believe, I'm here with you. And you're here with me. And can you feel me? Relying on you as you're relying on me. I don't know how, but you're hearing my sound. And I don't know how I ever live without you. (1:06:04)
You, you, you. And all them kids where they grew and bloomed with me. Yodel-ay-hee-hoo. Tried leaving town, but my town, well it left me. Or so it seemed. And can you believe, I'm here with you. And you're here with me. And can you feel me? Relying on you as you're relying on me. (1:06:41)
And I don't know how, but you're hearing my sound. And I don't know how I ever live without you. You, you, you. And for my sin I reckon I had to atone. I forgive you. (1:06:58)
Sky fell in the water, washed my bones down the road. And can you believe, I'm here with you. And you're here with me. And can you feel me? Relying on you as you're relying on me. And I don't know how, but you're hearing my sound. And I don't know how I ever live without you. You, you, you. (1:07:40)
And the cat-skilled eagles swooping, we've been a gorge. Don't let you, still flies higher than a desert. Hawking soars, I read before. I wonder where you read that. And can you believe, I'm here with you. And you're here with me. And can you feel me? Relying on you as you're relying on me. And I don't know how, but you're hearing my sound. And I don't know how I ever live without you. You, you, you. (1:08:12)
All right, together. Okay, let's do it. Ready to dance? Yeah. Okay. Ready? And I don't know how, how I can feel this way. Do it again, you can do it. Okay, all right, I'll start over. And I don't know how I could feel this way. And I don't know if it's you or the time of day that's making me strange. (1:09:15)
And can you believe, I'm here with you. And you're here with me. And can you feel me? Relying on you as you're relying on me. And I don't know how, but you're hearing my sound. And I don't know how I ever lived without you. That was pretty good. That was lovely. (1:09:50)
Absolutely lovely. Even the little... I don't know if it was a mistake, but it worked out beautifully. Yeah, it was good. I liked it. I messed up there a little bit at the end. I thought I was on the first verse when I was on the last, but yeah, it worked out nice. All right. What do you want to do next? We could try that one again so that we have two takes. (1:10:13)
You don't need two takes. That was perfect. All right. So the next song is one that Anika wrote to tease me because I was a lifelong vegetarian. And when I came back to the body, she was eating meat. And I mean, hot wings, burgers, the full deal. And I was pretty devastated and it took some time to adjust. Well, to be fair, I then went vegan. So yeah, you came around to it. You came around to it. (1:10:45)
I realized you had a lot of good points and I also didn't want to torture you every time I ate something. Yeah, it wasn't pleasant. So yeah, this song came from us kind of like teasing each other about the different diets. So OK, here we go. All yours. Well, I'm sorry for eating meat. But the crab, he sideshuffled into my mouth. I tried to assist, don't know, but the botter didn't have a mouth. (1:11:23)
It's awful. So I had no choice but to swallow him down. And now he's inside me and he's not coming out. (1:11:32)
How could you do this to me, babe? That creature, he had a name. I feel so bad that he's gone. This vegan will never recover. Maybe you will. Maybe I won't. Maybe you will. Maybe I won't. Maybe you will. Maybe I won't. Sorry for eating meat. But the cow, he moved into my mouth. I tried to assist, but the government locked him down. (1:12:10)
Likely story. So I had no choice but to swallow him down. And now he's inside me and he's not coming out. How could you do this to me, babe? Sorry. Are you that creature? He had a name. I feel so bad that he's gone. This vegan will never recover. Maybe you will. Maybe I won't. Maybe you will. Maybe I won't. Maybe you will. (1:12:43)
Maybe I won't. I'm sorry for eating meat. But that pig, he waddled right into my mouth. I don't think so. I tried. I told him to get. Did you? But the bread roll blocked his route. That's horrible. So I had no choice but to swallow him down. And now he's inside me and he's not coming out. Awful. How could you do this to me, babe? (1:13:20)
Are you that creature? He had a name. Get out of here. I feel so bad that he's gone. This vegan will never recover. Maybe you will. Maybe I won't. Maybe you will. Maybe I won't. Maybe you will. Maybe I won't. I'm sorry for eating meat. But that chicken, she flew into my mouth. I opened up wide. Oh, but the hot sauce weighed her down. (1:13:57)
That's horrible. So I had no choice but to swallow her down. Now she's inside me and she's not coming out. How could you do this to me, babe? And I'm sorry. That creature, she had a name. I feel so bad that she's gone. This vegan will never recover. Maybe you will. Maybe I won't. Maybe you will. Maybe I won't. Maybe you will. Maybe I will. (1:14:36)
I forgive you. That's a fun one. That was very cute. But I'm guessing you go back and forth so quickly. Is that hard to do? Did it take a lot of practice? Yeah, when we first started playing this song, that part came naturally. And yeah, that took some time so we weren't stepping on each other's toes or accidentally glitching. (1:15:06)
Because if we mess up these switches, we can cause some feedback in the brain that causes shaking or tics and things like that. And the biggest challenge is when we first started playing guitar together, because we had really bad, I think they're called functional seizures. So they're not like full-blown, light-induced seizures, but they were really bad to the point of where, you know, there's like a, like, it's like click, and then, and then we just like disoriented and confused. (1:15:33)
And it's almost like the brain is overwhelmed. So we had to get really good at stepping out of the brain and out of the body so that the other person could come in and just, just trusting in the process of it working. And that took a long time to do. (1:15:48)
Yeah, the glitches are really scary. And we had most of them. Yeah, at the beginning. So just to kind of echo what you're saying is like, yeah, they were pretty bad. But, but those passages are actually the most fun because it's like, we really are coming over top of each other and pushing that limit as to how far we can switch on top of each other. (1:16:11)
So, and it's really great because like, I can feel him and feel his face and feel his expression. So it's really hard not to laugh because I can sense he's like, he's devastated or that he's like, I can feel his emotions. And I love that. So it's, it's a lot of fun. (1:16:27)
Yeah. And music brings us closer together and it's a dance. That's, that's really what it is. So... Well, the other thing I find kind of amazing is you've got only one set of vocal cords here. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah, I don't, I don't know how that works. We just somehow manage it. (1:16:45)
I don't know. It's, it's, it's as soon as I come in, it's like, this is how I've always talked. This is how I was talked when I was a kid. And then she knows how to, she does something with the vocal cords and she can speak. So it's, it's really something else. So, and I love her voice. So I love it when we play together. (1:17:02)
Oh, thank you. So you have one more. Yeah. Okay. And so this song is, I don't, we will get this. We will, we will have faith. Um, so with this song, this song, we, we wrote together when we were unaware that we were together. So what ended up happening is after Tristan came back to the body, I was in denial about him being there, even though I was, and this goes to what Tristan was saying with like the functional seizures and the problems we were experiencing, rocking, major sensory issues. (1:17:40)
We were having a really difficult time because we weren't acknowledging each other. We were trying to be like, you know, I'm avoiding you, but how can you avoid somebody who's in your body? You really can't. So we were having a lot of medical problems. And at the same time, there was this undercurrent of emotion that we couldn't ignore. (1:17:59)
And so I wrote a little bit of the song. He wrote a little bit of the song and together we wrote this song. And the song is about, um, love still finding its way to you, even when you're not incarnated or love, like, even if that person has become a spirit and has moved on or is somewhere else, um, their love still finds a way to you. (1:18:25)
And so that's, that's what this song became. And then later, like way after we went back and looked through our songs and there was this song. Yeah, it was, it's a, it's a really special one. Um, and it was just kind of a way to express our, our love for each other. And, you know, and I think a lot of it was my, maybe cause you asked me what happened when you were gone. (1:18:42)
And I think this may be a part of it is that a lot, some of this song is me describing how my love found Anika while I was gone or how I found her. So yeah, it's, it's a, it's a nice song. Okay. Are you ready? (1:18:56)
Yep. You start. Okay. Up where the sky sings on a wisp of a warm wind from a cloud and drop drizzles my heart. I can only hope it reaches you on your lips. I pray it quenches you as then you'll be feeling too. For my love will always find you. Up where leaves dangle as sunny green tassels through the trees all breeze carries my heart. (1:19:45)
I can only hope it reaches you on your cheeks. I pray it caresses you as then you'll be feeling me too. For my love will always find you with every which way flowers fall and sway with the busy buzzing of bees feeds my heart. I can only hope it reaches you on your nose. (1:20:20)
I pray they nuzzle you as then you'll be feeling me too. For my love will always find you with a trickle and glurg a stream splashes and whirls over a crayfish in a dam drips my heart. I can only hope it reaches you along your body trickling down you as then you'll be feeling me too. For my love will always find you with on a bump on a log lifts the bugs and the moss deep in dirt near the roots rest my heart. (1:20:57)
I can only hope it reaches you on your soul. I pray it sticks to as then you'll be feeling me too. For my love will always find you as twilight sets in and the frog peepers sing the night's fireflies lighten my heart. I can only hope they reach you in your eyes. I pray they shine into as then you'll be feeling me too. (1:21:41)
For my love will always find you as a night night night fades to black and the owls who back the from a shooting star showers my heart. I can only hope it reaches you through your life. I pray it guides you as then you'll be feeling me too. For my love will always find you. Nice. Once again, it was lovely and it made me think though the story of how you were, Tristan, you were absent for five years and I always had the impression it was Annika who reached out somehow and brought you back, but maybe it came from your end as well. (1:22:34)
It's entirely possible. I mean, there's stuff that we don't know, like our past life agreements, there's things that we have knowings of, but not clear recollections, you know, within our memory. So I think, yeah, maybe we planned it. I don't know. But when I left, I was certain I wasn't going to come back. (1:23:00)
So in many ways, I think, as I was dying, these are some of the feelings I had while dying, like you're going to take the body, you're going to go on with your life, but my spirit, my soul will still be involved somehow. And that my love will find you because I didn't know what was on the other side. (1:23:18)
I didn't know what to expect. I was an atheist and just at the very last second became spiritual. So for me, and even then, I didn't understand what I was spiritual love. I just knew she was a soul, a person, and that she deserved life and to experience earth and to grow. And that's what I wanted for her to grow. Yeah. And there were times in my life where I did feel Tristan's presence, where I felt like he kept me safe or that he was there, but not quite like in the body, that he was somewhere else and, but he was like nearby or something. (1:23:58)
And weird coincidences and synchronicities that would happen that just kind of felt like it was Tristan saying, I love you, you know, just like spiritually or something, or he'd send somebody that was very protective of me and, you know, to help me out or something. (1:24:09)
But at the same time, you were really on your own for five years in an adult body and with the mentality of... Eight year old. Yeah. And it was hard and I was used, abused, and I had to do everything I could to survive. And it was a challenge every single day. And it was also dealing with the grief of Tristan, which was overwhelming. (1:24:33)
And when he left the body, it was like a void opened up inside of me. I had never been alone. Like my entire childhood, up until I was eight years old, I was with him. So to suddenly have his presence gone from the body and have the body and experiencing this reality, it was overwhelming. It was incredible. It was shocking. And, um, yeah, I, I, I struggled for a bit and it wasn't until the end of the five years that I had come to term and made my peace with it. (1:25:02)
And I accepted his death. And that's when he surprised me. Um, even though I was the one who got him, I like when I was in that meditative state where I went to get him, it was so strange. I had experienced ego death. I went through like this whole thing, meditating in the middle of my living room after bombarding myself with colors and shapes. (1:25:25)
And I basically turned my entire apartment into like a mini rave trying to, cause I was curious as to what all this stuff was in my brain, the synesthesia. So I was trying to trigger it as much as possible. And then I sat there and I just meditated, meditated. And all of a sudden I saw these two colors and I realized I was looking at something like souls or something like there was my pink colors and then there was Tristan's, but he was farther away or not there or something. (1:25:55)
And then I just put all of like, I just reached into that green. And then I don't remember anything beyond that point. I don't have any conscious memory of what happened next. And then a few minutes later, because I was keeping track of it on my phone, a few minutes later, he was there. (1:26:14)
And I was like, oh my God. And I thought I had broken something. I thought I had meditated so hard that I, you know, something went wrong in the brain or something. And then I was like, oh my God, I was like panicking. I was panicking. Something felt wrong. There was, I couldn't move as much. (1:26:26)
And then all of a sudden Tristan's voice came through and he's like, well, you should probably lay down. And I was like, what just happened? Like, what is this? And I was like, yeah, you're probably right. I should lay down. And so I did. And then right after that, there was almost like a break. (1:26:54)
All of a sudden, the next day, we accepted for a short while, for a week that he was back. And I was like, oh my God, you're back. And this is wonderful. (1:27:00)
And we watched movies together and we hung out and we spent time together. And Tristan was trying to winterize my apartment because he was in a panicked state of like, I don't know how I got here. And I feel like there's winter. And he thought he was in the country back home. And he just like, he was out of it. And then that lasted about a week where we spent time together. (1:27:20)
Yeah, I was completely out of it. I was just not doing well. I was really struggling. I didn't understand where I was, how I got there. I didn't recognize the apartment. I thought that I was visiting... I must have visited a relative or I was visiting my daughter in college or I was visiting my girlfriend. (1:27:42)
I didn't know what was going on, just that I really loved this person and I wanted to just spend some time. So we had a nice time. But then after that, we both went into denial about it because society doesn't accept this stuff at all. And so we did not accept it either. (1:28:03)
But we had to contend with it. So, you know, there was all these problems of biological, physical problems where glitching out and these little seizures and sometimes really big ones. And then, you know, and just suddenly appearing in different places in the house because the other person would take the body and do something without acknowledging each other. And it was very frustrating, very scary for about nine months. (1:28:23)
And then I had a dream with my grandmother, which we talked about on the one episode. And we kind of came out of it like, this is real. We have to accept this. And in that dream, that was the first song, like I was playing that song in the dream. It was a premonition, but it was also yeah, it's weird because the time traveling aspects of it, because how can you learn a song in a dream and then later you're playing the song that is a premonition of the dream? (1:28:49)
It creates this weird... Was this a shared dream? Yeah, it was a shared dream. So what happened was, is we were walking up to Tristan's grandmother's house and it was dusk and it had this element to it that was like very like mystical and incredible. And I was walking up the hill singing this song, you know, like... Can you believe I'm here with you and you're here with me? And as I was singing this song, Tristan was walking next to me and then we arrived at his grandmother's house and like the stars were like beautiful blue, so amazing colors. (1:29:28)
And then Tristan walked up to his grandmother's house and he put his hand on... I should really let you tell this. Um, yeah, I reached out and I put my hand on her cottage. It was a log cabin. I just said, Nana... because she died while I was away and I was dealing with the grief because I learned that she had died after I came back. (1:29:49)
So I was in full-blown grief over this. I was trying to process my feelings and I just put my hand and said, I'm sorry I wasn't there for when you passed, Nana. I hope you can forgive me. I love you. I miss you. (1:29:57)
Um, and then, uh, and I, you know, I don't think we maybe mentioned this, but cause I, you know, we hadn't gotten to that point yet. Um, but I felt ET's presence in her house and that in the dream. Um, so ET, that being that we talked about, I felt him in the house. And so I, I didn't want to go in. (1:30:21)
You know what I mean? Cause I knew he was in there and I was just like, I'm going to stay out here. And then we woke up, uh, which is just super, you know, I don't know what to make of that, but he was there too. Um, and then we woke up and then Anika immediately grabbed the guitar and started figuring out the song on the guitar, trying to figure out how to play it. (1:30:41)
And sure enough, she did. And she recorded it on the phone. And, um, then we just started playing it and then it developed and furthered and we practiced it and it got better. Um, but that was the big, that was the big moment where we, where we realized that we had to contend with this, that this was real. (1:31:01)
Yup. Yup. And then here's the second part of the story. We, a year later, um, ended up going and visiting his childhood home and we were like, well, let's walk up to your grandmother's house. And it was exactly like the dream. I was walking up there. I was singing the song. (1:31:19)
Um, you know, I even had like the, like the guitar and it was like, just like singing it like happily. And then we, um, it was like the same twilight feeling. Everything felt mystical. We arrived at the cottage and it was like, it was, it was identical. It was, it was, it was spooky. And we both were feeling like we were experiencing, experiencing deja vu. (1:31:34)
And then sure enough, Tristan went and he put his hand on the cottage. He said his piece and that, you know, he, you know, loved her and he missed her. Yeah. I said exactly what I said in the dream, except there was one difference. And that was when I put my hand where I did in the dream, there was an acorn there, actually two acorns, but the acorns were fused together. (1:31:54)
So it was two acorns in one acorn. And it just was, you know, I mean, well, how else do you interpret that? Right where the, right where my hand was. Um, and yeah, it was a double acorn. And I was like, all right, well, my grandmother, you know, she said, she said hi. That was her way of saying hi. (1:32:16)
And, uh, yeah. And we had a great trip and then I had some spiritual awakenings and, and that, that whole trip was weird. Yeah. Um, yeah, that, that whole trip was a lot of weird spiritual stuff happened. Yeah. We, like, we saw an orb, um, hovering over the lake, uh, my childhood lake. (1:32:35)
We heard something, uh, some sort of cloaked being in the woods. I mean, like the whole, the woods weren't acting normal the entire time we were there. Even the animals were strange. There were just snakes everywhere. The deer weren't like spooked. We ended up walking up this path and there was a buck just laying on the path and it did not move. (1:32:50)
And I was like, Annika, we gotta, we gotta get around this thing. Cause this deer isn't acting normal. It's not afraid of us. It's just, it's, and we're like talking and conversating. So like, this should be like a weird experience for the deer, but the deer just sat there watching us. So that whole trip. And that's when I had my coming to God realization, um, that I was like, Oh my God, God exists. (1:33:15)
God is real. And just, and even my, my mom, she was experiencing it too. So it wasn't like we were just walking around experiencing these. She said it was the strangest that she, in her entire life living there, um, the strangest that place has ever been. So it was, it was a powerful experience. (1:33:31)
Well, it certainly suggests that there are hidden forces that, uh, have something to do with your situation. Definitely, definitely. And it's been helpful. (1:33:38)
I mean, it, everything has, everything happens for a reason and everything has led us to this moment. Everything has led us to having the spiritual understandings that we do and being able to experiment with consciousness and, and reach higher densities. It's, it's been an amazing journey. Yeah. We wouldn't, we wouldn't change a thing. Well, uh, is there anything else you'd like to add before we conclude this particular episode? (1:34:05)
Um, I don't think so. I think that covers a lot of it. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. All good here. Well, thank you so much for being here with me and Albuquerque. Once again, it's such a pleasure to be able to reflect back a year after we did our first set of interviews and, and to see, uh, your happy face and, and the growth that you're experiencing. (1:34:31)
And, uh, of course, since you're here, we'll be doing several more. Great. I know we have a lot more to talk about. So for now, Annika and Tristan, thank you both. Thank you so much. And for those of you who are watching or listening, thank you, because at the end of the day, you are the reason that we are here. Book three in the New Thinking Allowed dialogue series is UFOs and UAP. Are We Really Alone? (1:35:25)
Now available on Amazon. New Thinking Allowed is presented by the California Institute for Human Science, a fully accredited university offering distant learning graduate degrees that focus on mind, body, and spirit. The topics that we cover here, we are particularly excited to announce new degrees emphasizing parapsychology and the paranormal. Visit their website at cihs.edu. You can now download a free PDF copy of issue number eight of the New Thinking Allowed magazine, or order a beautiful printed copy. (1:36:10)
Go to newthinkingallowed.org. (1:36:10)
(2025-04-21)