Thomas Ferrario : Marley woods と Ted Phillips を語る

2025年5月24日 · 約147分

前置き

Thomas Ferrario がタイトルの件を 2時間以上語っている音声インタビューを AI(NotebookLM plus)に整理させた。
長い動画だと聞き飛ばしすることなり、重要な内容の漏れが生じるが AI に処理させるとそれを低減できる。
「ある少年が3日間行方不明になり…」という事件（後述）は重要。これが事実なら、私の missing-time に関する仮説（＝意識＋記憶障害）は崩壊するので注目に値する（が、事件の詳細情報が乏しく、誇張が混在していると推測する）。

音声対話(by AI)

7:06 から聴くことを推奨。

AI は音声対話の生成途中に混乱を来しており、冒頭から少しして途切れる。その後、7:06 再度やり直しになり、最後の 14:40 までが実質の対話。

https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/10524f5a-01bc-49f0-aba3-9b8d43a12617/audio

情報源

音声(2:18:28) TED PHILLIPS, UFOs & MARLEY WOODS - UFO INVESTIGATOR THOMAS FERRARIO

AI 整理

ブリーフィング文書：マリウッド現象のレビュー

概要:

本ブリーフィング文書は、複数の情報源から得られた、故テッド・フィリップス氏と関連チーム（特にトム氏）によるUFO現象、特にミズーリ州の秘匿された場所である「マリウッド」における調査に関する主要なテーマ、重要なアイデア、および事実をレビューします。

この調査は、フィリップス氏が師事した故アレン・ハイネック博士の研究を引き継ぎ、物理的な痕跡、次元的な性質、および現象に関連する広範な異常に焦点を当てています。

主要な調査者:

テッド・フィリップス: アレン・ハイネック博士の弟子であり、物理的な痕跡事例の専門家。3,000件以上の物理的な痕跡事例を文書化し、そのうち約1,500件は海外での調査によるもの。彼はマリウッド現象を長年調査し、その高ストレンジネス性に懸念を抱いていた。2020年に死去。
トム（氏名不詳、語り手）: テッド・フィリップスのチームのメンバー。電気技師、エンジニア、機械工、ダイブマスターなどの経歴を持ち、マリウッドでの現場調査でフィリップス氏を支援した。現在もマリウッドの調査を続けている。
アレン・ハイネック博士: 有名なUFO研究者であり、テッド・フィリップスの師。UFO現象の次元的な性質に関する見解を持っていた。
ジャック・ヴァレ博士: 有名なUFO研究者であり、テッド・フィリップスとアレン・ハイネックの協力者。マリウッドおよびスキンウォーカー牧場で調査を行った経験から、マリウッドの高ストレンジネス性がスキンウォーカー牧場よりも高い可能性を示唆した。

マリウッド現象の主要テーマとアイデア:

物理的な痕跡とUFOの重量:

テッド・フィリップスは、着陸したUFOが残す物理的な痕跡、特に地面に残る3つの窪み（着陸装置によるもの）の調査に特化していた。
彼は土壌 compaction（圧縮）を測定する機器を使用し、これらの窪みが「tremendous amount of weight to them」（膨大な量の重さ）を持っていることを発見した。
直径20～30フィートのクラフトの場合、着陸装置が残す窪みから推定される総重量は、「approaching 20,000 pounds」または「around 20 to 30, 30,000 pounds」にも達することがあった。これは、偽のケースを除外するための一つの指標となった。

次元的／ハイパーディメンション的な性質:

テッド・フィリップスとアレン・ハイネック博士は、「these things are dimensional, hyperdimensional, they're not interplanetary」（これらは次元的、ハイパーディメンション的であり、惑星間のものではない）と確信していた。ジャック・ヴァレ博士やレイ・スタンフォード氏といった他の研究者もこの結論に至っている。
現象は「defy the law of physics as we know them」（我々が知る物理法則に反する）振る舞いを見せる。例として、音速の何倍もの速度で移動してもソニックブームを起こさないことや、水中に入っても運動量を失わないことなどが挙げられる。
これは、「they create an envelope through their technology」（彼らは彼らの技術を通してエンベロープを作り出す）ことで可能となる。このエンベロープ内では、我々の次元の物理法則は適用されない。
現象の観察は視点に依存し、「depending on your viewpoint, they're very directional. One person will see one thing, another person will see another thing」（あなたの視点に依存して、これらは非常に方向性がある。ある人は一つのものを見、別の人は別のものを見る）ことがある。マリウッドでも同様の経験があった。
現象はレーダーや視覚的な監視を回避することが可能であり、「they can virtually be seen on radar or visually when they want to. And if they don't want to be, you're not going to see them」（彼らは望む時にレーダーまたは視覚的に実質的に見られる。そしてもし彼らが望まなければ、あなたはそれらを見ないだろう）状態である。

マリウッドのハイストレンジネス:

マリウッドは、ミズーリ州の秘匿された場所であり、フィリップス氏とチームが長年集中的に調査した場所。テッドが海外で遭遇した現象と類似した詳細な報告があったことから、彼はこの場所の調査を引き受けた。
マリウッドでは、「just high strangeness that you just can't imagine in one location」（一つの場所で想像できないほどの高ストレンジネス）が報告されている。
報告される現象には以下が含まれる：
- ライトボール (light balls): 特徴的な現象であり、「未見の力 (unseen force)」と関連している。ベトナムの事例では、赤いライトボールが村を壊滅させた事例が報告されている。マリウッドでも赤いライトボールの報告があり、それは「not been good」（良くない）とされている。テッドは「オーブ」という用語を避け、観察されたままの「ライトボール」という用語を用いた。
- 未見の力 (unseen force): ベトナムの事例で村を壊滅させた現象であり、マリウッドの報告でもテッドの関心を引いた要素。
- 痕跡: 13インチ径の3本指の足跡（氷上や陸上）、17インチの純白の毛（DNA解析で未知のものと判明）など。
- クリプトイド: 様々な形態の動物のようなものが目撃されている。
- ボルテックス: 風のない日に木が激しく揺れるなど、強い風のような現象。
- ライト: 様々な形態のライトの目撃。
- ポータル: 現象が出入りする可能性のある場所が3ヶ所特定されている。
- 構造を持つクラフト (structured craft): 典型的な円盤型（稀）や、フットボール大の長さの黒い円筒形クラフトで底面に黄色い窓があるものなどが報告されている（こちらも稀）。
- マリウッドの現象は、スキンウォーカー牧場の現象と非常に類似している。「Virtually everything that happened at Skinwalker, we have reports of that at Marley」（スキンウォーカーで起こったことのほぼすべてについて、マリウッドでも報告がある）。ジャック・ヴァレ博士は、マリウッドの高ストレンジネス性がスキンウォーカー牧場よりも高い可能性を示唆した。

物理的な影響とリスク:

マリウッドの現象との相互作用により、調査員や土地所有者に身体的な影響が現れることがある。トム氏自身も長期的な身体的影響を経験している。
報告されている身体的影響には、光線にさらされた際のチクチクする感覚、触ると痛い頭皮（touchy scalp）、ひどい日焼けのような感覚、そしてトム氏の白髪化や視力問題（加齢に関連する黄斑嚢胞と白内障）が含まれる。トム氏の視力問題は、マイクロ波エネルギーとの関連性が示唆されている。
テッド・フィリップスは、調査員が調査の一部となることを避けるべきだと考えていたため、これらの個人的な影響についてあまり語りたがらなかった。
これらの場所にはリスクが伴い、「be careful for what you wish for」（望むものに注意しろ）、現象は「It's real, very real.」（現実であり、非常に現実的である）と警告されている。

現象の性質に関する議論:

現象が人間にとって「慈悲深い (benevolent)」ものか、「無関心あるいは潜在的な脅威 (indifferent or potentially a threat)」であるかという議論について、トム氏は、テッド・フィリップスやアレン・ハイネック、さらには（間接的に）ヴェルナー・フォン・ブラウン博士の見解に基づき、「it's not benign, and their motivation is not good」（それは無害ではなく、彼らの動機は良くない）と考えている。
この見解は、「トワイライト・ゾーン」のエピソード「人間様のお役に」に比喩的に関連付けられている。

調査方法と課題:

テッド・フィリップスは、調査を犯罪現場のように扱い、「the science of it」（その科学）と「documentation」（文書化）に重点を置いていた。
物理的な痕跡の調査（土壌分析など）が重視された。デルフォスの事例では、円形の着陸跡の土壌が撥水性（hydrophobic）になったことが発見されており、マリウッドの一部の「アグログリフ」（円形作物の痕跡）でも同様の現象が見られた。
「アグログリフ (agroglyphs)」は、クラフトの目撃と関連付けられる円形の作物の痕跡であり、一般に「クロップサークル」と呼ばれるものとは区別される。テッドは「クロップサークル」という用語を好まず、目撃証言によってクラフトとの関連が確認されたもののみを「ソーサーネスト」または「アグログリフ」と呼んだ。
現場には携帯電話の接続が悪いため、将来的には衛星電話を介したセルラー・トレイル・カメラのネットワーク構築が計画されている。
目撃証言は重視されるが、高ストレンジネスな報告も「take it and accept it」（それを受け入れ、受け入れる）必要があるものの、鵜呑みにせず「gray basket」（グレイバスケット）に入れることも重要である。
目撃者への「嘲笑 (ridicule)」は絶対に避けるべきであり、それは人々の人生を破壊する可能性がある。
写真や動画の信頼性は、ディープフェイク技術の進化により低下しており、ジムという人物はデジタル写真が将来無価値になるだろうと予言していた。「you're not going to be able to believe any image or photograph you see」（あなたが目にするいかなる画像や写真も信じることができなくなるだろう）という時代が来ている。したがって、物事を見る際には「open mind」（オープンマインド）を持ちつつ、「very critical mindset」（非常に批判的な考え方）を持つことが重要である。
マリウッドの場所は現在も秘匿されている。

現象の増加と将来:

現象は増加しており、「the dimensional boundaries are weakening」（次元の境界が弱まっている）可能性が示唆されている。
テッドは、現象が将来、否定できない形で自らを明らかにするだろうと考えていた。
政府による情報公開（ディスクロージャー）は期待できないと考えられている。政府は長年現象に関与しており、多くの要素に触れるため、彼らの主導でディスクロージャーが行われることはないだろう。
公衆がこのテーマに関心を持つことは重要であり、議会議員や担当者に書簡を送るなどして、科学的な調査の必要性を訴えることが推奨されている。

ベトナムの事例:

テッド・フィリップスはベトナム戦争中にインテリジェンスとともに極秘の調査を行った。
敵戦線後方の山岳地帯に住む石器時代の部族は、エンティティや構造を持つ車両と長年関係を築いていた。
ある日、部族とクラフトの搭乗者の間に衝突があり、クラフトは去った後、3つの赤いライトボールが村を通過し、未見の力によって村全体が壊滅した。
この事例は公には知られておらず、テッド自身も自身の報告書を入手することができなかった。
この事例は映画「プレデター」の着想源の一つとなった可能性が示唆されている（確認はできないが）。
部族の証言からは、エンティティとの関係が何世紀にもわたって続いていたことが示唆されており、彼らの関与には遺伝子的な要素があった可能性も推測されている（こちらも確認できない）。

その他の異常:

マリウッドでは、失われた時間 (missing time) は報告されていないが、ある少年が3日間行方不明になり、彼の足跡が途中で消滅した事例があり、これは誘拐であった可能性が高いとされている。
マリウッド周辺の地元住民、特に高齢者の中には、現象の発生を「感知する (perceive)」特殊な能力を持つ人がいる。これは「強化された予知能力 (enhanced precognition abilities)」と表現されている。

結論:

マリウッドの現象は、物理的な痕跡、次元的な性質、広範な異常（ライトボール、クリプトイド、足跡など）、および研究者への身体的影響といった要素を含む、複雑でハイストレンジネスなものである。テッド・フィリップスの功績は、これらの現象を科学的に調査し、文書化しようと試みた点にある。現象は増加傾向にあり、その性質は人間にとって必ずしも慈悲深いものではないという懸念が示されている。写真や動画の信頼性が低下する現代において、この分野の研究にはオープンマインドかつ批判的な視点が求められる。マリウッドは、スキンウォーカー牧場と同様の、あるいはそれ以上の高ストレンジネスな活動が見られる場所として、UFO/UAP現象の理解における重要な事例と言える。

timeline と関係者

タイムライン：マリウッド現象とテッド・フィリップスの調査

1960年代以前: マリウッド地域周辺の先住民部族が、非人間的な存在や構造を持つ乗り物（UFO/UAP）と数世紀にわたる関係を持っていた可能性がある（ベトナムの事例との類推に基づく示唆）。
1960年代:トム氏、ミズーリ州の小さな町で育ち、個人的なUFO体験に関心を持つ。
テッド・フィリップス、アレン・ハイネック博士の指導の下、UFOの物理的な痕跡事例の調査を始める。
テッド・フィリップス、ベトナム戦争中に情報機関とともにベトナムで極秘の調査を行う。山岳地帯の部族がUFO/エンティティと長年関係を持っていた村で、エンティティとの衝突後、3つの赤いライトボールとその後の「未見の力」によって村が壊滅する事例を調査する。
1970年代以降: テッド・フィリップス、世界中で物理的な痕跡事例を調査・文書化する（合計3000件以上、海外で約1500件）。土壌圧縮などを測定し、UFOの推定重量（20,000～30,000ポンド）を算出する。
具体的な時期は不明（テッド・フィリップスのキャリア初期）: テッド・フィリップスとアレン・ハイネック博士、デロフォス（カンザス州）のUFO着陸痕事例を調査。土壌サンプルを採取し、撥水性（hydrophobic）になっていることを発見する。
時期は不明（MUFONの設立後）: トム氏、MUFONに参加し、セクションディレクターとなる。ミズーリ州MUFONのブルース・ウィットマンやデビー・ジーゲルマイヤーと知り合う。デビー・ジーゲルマイヤーとともにMUFONダイブチームを設立するが、活動内容は不明。
2000年以前（MUFONカンファレンス）: トム氏、テッド・フィリップスの講演を聴き、彼の仕事に感銘を受ける。テッドに協力を申し出る。
その直後（約20年前）: テッド・フィリップス、トム氏にマリウッドでの調査への協力を依頼する。トム氏、電気技師、エンジニア、機械工、ダイブマスターの経験を活かして参加。
テッド・フィリップスによるマリウッド調査の開始: ミズーリ州MUFONのブルース・ウィットマンを通じて、マリウッドの土地所有者からの報告を受けたテッド・フィリップスが、その詳細（特に「未見の力」やライトボール）が自身の海外での経験と類似していることから、調査を引き受けることを決める。
マリウッドでの集中的な現場調査の開始: テッド・フィリップス、トム氏、デビー・ジーゲルマイヤー、アダム・ジョンソン、ロドニー・ディラードらを含むチームを編成し、マリウッドで長期にわたり集中的な調査を行う。土地所有者はテッドのために2階建てのオフィス兼宿泊施設を建設する。物理的な痕跡の採取（未知のDNAを持つ白い毛髪、キャストされた足跡など）、機器の設置（監視カメラなど）を行う。
マリウッド調査期間中:チームメンバー（トム氏、テッド・フィリップス、アダム・ジョンソン、土地所有者）がライトビームに遭遇し、身体的な影響（チクチクする感覚、触ると痛い頭皮、ひどい日焼けのような感覚、トム氏の白髪化や視力問題など）を経験する。
様々な高ストレンジネス現象が頻繁に報告される（ライトボール、「未見の力」、13インチの3本指の足跡、17インチの白い毛髪、クリプトイド、ボルテックス、様々なライト、ポータルと思しき場所）。
稀に、典型的な円盤型クラフトや、フットボール大の黒い円筒形クラフトの目撃が報告される。
一部の「アグログリフ」（円形作物の痕跡）の土壌がデロフォスと同様に撥水性（hydrophobic）になっていることを発見する。
マリウッドの現象がスキンウォーカー牧場と非常に類似していることが確認される。ジャック・ヴァレ博士がマリウッドを訪れ、その高ストレンジネス性がスキンウォーカー牧場よりも高い可能性を示唆する。
テッド・フィリップスとチームは調査資金を稼ぐため、講演活動を行う。一時的にロバート・ビゲローとも共同作業を行うが、テットの科学的手法と合わず短期間で終了する。
一部の地元住民、特に高齢者が現象の発生を予知する能力（「強化された予知能力」）を持っていることが観察される。
トム氏、マリウッドで「圧倒的な喜び」と「何かがそばにいる感覚」を伴う奇妙な覚醒体験をする。
「UFO Hunters」の制作チームがマリウッドで数エピソードを撮影する。
テッド・フィリップスの死去（2020年）: 長年のマリウッド調査に人生の多くを費やしたテッド・フィリップスが死去する。テッドの死去後（2020年以降）:トム氏、テッド・フィリップスの遺志を継ぎ、マリウッドの現象に関する情報の公開と調査の継続に尽力する。
マリウッドでの集中的な現場調査は、特にCOVID-19パンデミックの影響で減少するが、土地所有者からの現象報告は継続しており、トム氏がログを付けている。
将来的な調査計画として、衛星電話を介したセルラー・トレイル・カメラのネットワーク構築が検討される。
マリウッドの正確な場所は秘匿され続けている。
現象は増加傾向にあり、「次元の境界が弱まっている」可能性が示唆される。
トム氏、過去の経験（特にベトナムの事例やマリウッドでの影響）に基づき、現象の性質は「無害ではなく、彼らの動機は良くない」と考えている。
トム氏、マダム・キュリーとウラン鉱石、スロバキアで発見されたアーティファクト、第二次世界大戦、冷戦、月面シャフトに関連する別の興味深い話の存在を明らかにする。
現在: トム氏はFacebookを通じて連絡可能であり、YouTubeにはマリウッドに関わる人々や写真を紹介する3分間の動画が存在する。トム氏は引き続き現象の分析と情報の共有を行っている。2月と3月が活動のピーク期間であることが継続的に観察されている。

登場人物

テッド・フィリップス (Ted Phillips):アレン・ハイネック博士の著名な弟子であり、UFOの物理的な痕跡事例に関する世界的な専門家。

3,000件以上の物理的な痕跡事例を文書化し、そのうち約1,500件はソビエト連邦、アフリカ、ベトナムなど海外での調査によるもの。
着陸したUFOの重量を土壌調査から推定するなど、科学的手法を重視した。
UFO/UAP現象は次元的、ハイパーディメンション的な性質を持つと確信していた。
ミズーリ州の秘匿された場所である「マリウッド」での現象の詳細（特に「未見の力」やライトボール）が自身の海外での経験と類似していたことから、マリウッドの調査を人生の多くを費やして行った。
マリウッドの高ストレンジネス性に懸念を抱き、調査に関わる人々へのリスクを認識していた。
講演活動も行い、そのユーモアと博識さで高い評価を得ていた。
調査員が調査の一部となるべきではないと考え、個人的な体験についてはあまり語りたがらなかった。 2020年に死去。

トム (Tom):語り手であり、テッド・フィリップスのチームの主要メンバー。

電気技師、エンジニア、機械工、ダイブマスターなどの多様な経歴を持つ。
テッド・フィリップスとの出会いをきっかけにマリウッドの調査に参加し、現場での機器設置や観測を支援した。
マリウッドでの調査中にライトビームに複数回遭遇し、白髪化や視力問題を含む長期的な身体的影響を受けた。
マリウッドの現象はスキンウォーカー牧場と同様またはそれ以上の高ストレンジネス性を持つと考えている。
テッド・フィリップスの死後も、彼の仕事を継承し、マリウッドの現象に関する情報の公開と調査の継続を行っている。
現象の性質は無害ではなく、その動機は良くないと考えている。
目撃者を決して嘲笑すべきではないと強く主張している。
ミズーリ州ハーマンの出身。

アレン・ハイネック博士 (Dr. J. Allen Hynek):著名なUFO研究者であり、テッド・フィリップスの師。

UFO/UAP現象は次元的、ハイパーディメンション的な性質を持つという見解を持っていた。
テッド・フィリップスとともにデロフォスのUFO着陸痕事例を調査した。
現象の性質について、ヴェルナー・フォン・ブラウン博士とも意見を共有していた。
テッド・フィリップスやジャック・ヴァレ博士らとともに国連でUFOについて講演を行った。

ジャック・ヴァレ博士 (Dr. Jacques Vallee):著名なUFO研究者、コンピュータ科学者、ベンチャーキャピタリスト。

テッド・フィリップスおよびアレン・ハイネック博士の協力者。
マリウッドとスキンウォーカー牧場の両方で調査を行った経験があり、マリウッドの高ストレンジネス性がスキンウォーカー牧場よりも高い可能性を示唆した。
UFO現象の次元的な性質に関する見解を持つ。

レイ・スタンフォード (Ray Stanford):自己発明家、エンジニア、古生物学者。

ソコロ（ニューメキシコ州）の事例調査においてテッド・フィリップスおよびアレン・ハイネック博士とともに活動した。
かつて「プロジェクト・スターライト」を運営していた。
UFO現象の次元的な性質に関する見解を持つ。

ブルース・ウィットマン (Bruce Witteman):ミズーリ州MUFONの元州ディレクター。

テッド・フィリップスの友人であり、マリウッドの土地所有者からの報告をテッドに引き合わせた人物。

デビー・ジーゲルマイヤー (Debbie Ziegelmeier):ミズーリ州MUFONの現在の州ディレクター。

トム氏の友人であり、MUFONダイブチームを共同設立した。
テッド・フィリップスのマリウッド調査チームのメンバー。
ヒストリーチャンネルやディスカバリーチャンネルに出演経験がある。

アダム・ジョンソン (Adam Johnson):セントルイスに自身の制作会社を持つドキュメンタリー制作者。

テッド・フィリップスのマリウッド調査チームのメンバーであり、一部の調査を撮影した。
マリウッドでの調査中にライトビームに遭遇し、身体的影響を経験したチームメンバーの一人。

ロドニー・ディラード (Rodney Dillard):テッド・フィリップスのマリウッド調査チームのメンバー。

ウォルト・アンドラス (Walt Andrus):MUFONの創設者の一人。

トム氏が若い頃に行った調査に関心を持ち、MUFONに勧誘した。

ジョン・シュースラー (John Schuessler):MUFONの創設者の一人であり、トム氏の友人。

ヴェルナー・フォン・ブラウン博士 (Dr. Wernher von Braun):有名なロケット科学者。

アレン・ハイネック博士とUFO現象の性質について意見を共有していた人物の一人。
彼の弟子であるキャロル・ローゼン博士が、現象の性質について重要な情報を共有したとされている。

キャロル・ローゼン博士 (Dr. Carol Rosen):ヴェルナー・フォン・ブラウン博士の弟子。

トム氏が会ったことがあり、貴重な情報源と見なしている。
現象の性質、特にその悪意のない性質ではない可能性について示唆している。

ロッド・セーリング (Rod Serling):テレビ番組「トワイライト・ゾーン」の制作者。

UFOロジーに深い関心を持ち、優れたドキュメンタリーを制作した。
「トワイライト・ゾーン」のエピソード「人間様のお役に (To Serve Mankind)」は、現象の悪意のない性質ではない可能性というテーマと関連付けられている。

ジム (Jim):元空軍パイロットで、写真分析の専門家。

テッド・フィリップスおよびトム氏と協力し、写真ネガティブの分析を行った。
デジタル写真が将来的に信頼性を失うであろうと予言した。

ロバート・ビゲロー (Robert Bigelow):アメリカのビジネスマンで、未確認航空現象の研究に資金提供している人物。

マリウッドの調査チームと一時的に共同作業を行ったが、テッド・フィリップスの科学的手法と合わず短期間で終了した。スキンウォーカー牧場の研究にも関与していた。

スタントン・フリードマン (Stanton Friedman):有名なUFO研究者。

テッド・フィリップスの仕事を高く評価していた。
証言をすぐに受け入れず、「グレイバスケット」に入れることの重要性を説いていた。

クリス・ブレッドソー (Chris Bledsoe) とその家族 (the Bledsoe family):UFO/UAP現象に関連する別のケースの体験者として言及されているが、マリウッドの調査チームとの直接的な関わりは不明。

スティーブン・グリア (Steven Greer):ディスクロージャー運動を推進する人物として言及されている。

スティーブ・バセット (Steve Bassett):ワシントンD.C.でUFOロビー活動を行っている人物。トム氏の個人的な知人。

マダム・キュリー (Madame Curie):物理学者、化学者。

スロバキアで発見されたアーティファクトに関連するウラン鉱石を購入したとされている。

ジョン・グリーンウォルド (John Greenewald):FOIA（情報公開法）に基づく文書公開活動を行う「ザ・ブラック・ヴォールト (The Black Vault)」の運営者。

トム氏によれば、テッド・フィリップスのベトナムでの極秘調査に関する記録を入手することは、彼の専門知識をもってしても困難であろうとされている。

マリウッドの土地所有者 (The ranchers / land and property owners):マリウッド地域に住み、現象を長年経験している人々。

MUFONに連絡し、テッド・フィリップスが調査を開始するきっかけとなった。
テッド・フィリップスのチームに協力し、宿泊施設や調査の許可を提供した。
現象との相互作用により身体的影響を経験した者もいる。
トム氏が調査を継続できるよう、現在も現象の報告を行っている。

マリウッドの地元住民 (Local people around Marley):マリウッド周辺に住む人々。

現象について認識しているが、場所を秘匿することに協力的。
特に高齢者の中に、現象の発生を予知する能力を持つ者がいる。
現象に対して、ポジティブな態度（見に行く）とネガティブな態度（恐れて隠れる）の両方を持つ者がいる。

ベトナムの部族 (Tribe in Vietnam):ベトナム戦争中に敵戦線後方の山岳地帯に住んでいた石器時代の生活を送る部族。

非人間的なエンティティや構造を持つ乗り物と数世紀にわたる関係を持っていたとされている。
エンティティとの衝突後、村全体が壊滅する事件の証人。遺伝子的な関与があった可能性も示唆されている（確認できないが）。

語り手（Thomas Ferrario）の視力障害

提供された情報源に基づき、語り手であるTom氏がマリウッドでの調査中に経験した視力障害について、その発生、手術、眼科医から告げられた類似事例、および視力症状の経緯を以下にまとめます。

Tom氏は、マリウッドでの現象との相互作用により、長期的な身体的影響を経験したと述べています。その一つが視力障害です。

マリウッドの光線に複数回（計4回）曝露された後、Tom氏は最初に腕や手にチクチクする感覚、そして**頭皮が痛む「touchy scalp」**という状態を経験しました。これはひどい日焼けのような感覚で、髪に触れることもできないほどだったそうです。この症状は、土地所有者や地元住民も経験しているものです。Ted Phillips氏も光線曝露後、激しく気分が悪くなり嘔吐したことがありました。

光線に曝露されてから約1ヶ月後、Tom氏の髪の毛の色が暗褐色から白/金髪へと変化しました。これは「最悪の事態」ではなかったと述べています。

その数年後、Tom氏は視力問題を発症しました。最初は左目の視力が非常に悪くなりました。眼科医の診察を受け、専門医に送られました。診断された病状は**Macular cyst（黄斑嚢胞）**と呼ばれるものでした。これは通常、高齢に関連する病状ですが、Tom氏が診断された当時は「great age」ではなかったそうです。この病状の原因は、高齢の場合でも医師は知らないと述べています。

Tom氏は左目の黄斑嚢胞を除去する手術を一度受けました。右目にも嚢胞がありましたが、それほど悪くなかったため残されました。その後、黄斑嚢胞に関連して白内障を発症し、それも除去する手術を受けました。現在でも、Tom氏の視力は常に変化しており、眼鏡が全く必要ない日もあれば、老眼鏡でも足りない日もあるとのことです。

セントルイスの病院にいた際、若い眼科医から、Tom氏と同じ病状（黄斑嚢胞）の唯一の類似ケースについて聞かされました。それは、携帯電話アンテナの作業員2人が、作業中にアンテナの電源を入れられた後に視力問題を発症したケースでした。医師は、その原因がマイクロ波エネルギーであると述べたそうです。

この医師の話を聞いたTom氏は、自身の視力問題の原因がマイクロ波エネルギーに関連していると推測しています。彼は、Ted氏がマリウッドや海外で行った調査において、最大の要因がマイクロ波放射であったことを知っていたからです。マリウッドでは、Ted氏がマイクロ波エネルギーのバーストによるものと断定した、動物が殺された非常に劇的なケースも存在しました。

Ted Phillips氏は、研究者が調査の一部になることを好まなかったため、Tom氏を含むチームメンバーの個人的な身体的影響については、講演などであまり語りたがらなかったそうです。

Me: animal mutilation（動物の切断事件、被害）について何か語られていれば、抽出して。

animal mutilation

提供された情報源に基づくと、マリウッドにおける動物の切断事件（またはそれに類する現象）について、以下の記述が見られます。

マリウッドで報告されている現象の一つである「未見の力（unseen force）」の説明の中で、「animals being levitated」（動物が浮遊させられる）という報告があり、その後「they'd find animals in treetops out there, literally torn apart」（そこの木々のてっぺんで、文字通り引き裂かれた動物が見つかった）と述べられています。これは「未見の力」が非常に強力な高エネルギーの力であることの一例として挙げられています。
マリウッドの現象はスキンウォーカー牧場の現象と非常に類似していると述べられており、スキンウォーカー牧場で起こったことのほぼすべてがマリウッドでも報告されていると言われています。その類似点として、「cattle mutilations」（牛の切断事件）という言葉が挙げられています。これはマリウッドで発生している「ハイストレンジネス」（非常に奇妙な現象）の一部として、他の異常（クリプトイド、ストレンジエンティティなど）と共に述べられています。

したがって、マリウッドでは、未見の力によって動物が浮遊させられた後に「文字通り引き裂かれた」状態で木々のてっぺんで見つかったケースや、スキンウォーカー牧場でも報告されているような「牛の切断事件」が、他の多くの異常現象と共に報告されていることが分かります。これらの報告は、マリウッドの現象が伴う潜在的な危険性や高ストレンジネスを示す要素の一つとして語られています。

Me:

「ある少年が3日間行方不明になり、彼の足跡が途中で消滅した事例があり、これは誘拐であった可能性が高いとされている。」という事件について詳しく説明して。

提供された情報源に基づくと、マリウッドで発生した、ある少年が3日間行方不明になり、その足跡が途中で消滅した事例について、以下の詳細が語られています。

マリウッドでは、ミッシングタイム（失われた時間）は報告されていないとされていますが、この少年に関する事例は例外的なものとして言及されています。
事件の被害者である少年は、家族にとって「非常に特別な存在」であったと述べられています。
ある日、少年は家を出ました。その時、雪が積もっており、少年は裸足でした。
彼の足跡は雪の上に残されましたが、玄関から約15フィート（約4.5メートル）の地点で途絶えていました。
少年は3日間行方不明になりました。
家族は保安官とともに捜索を行いましたが、何も見つけることはできませんでした。
3日後、少年は家を出たその朝と全く同じ姿で歩いて帰ってきました。
少年は、何が起こったのか全く覚えていませんでした。彼の視点では、家を出て、すぐに振り向いて戻ってきただけであり、時間のずれは全くなかったとのことです。
当時の少年の年齢は13歳でした。
テッド・フィリップスは、このケースは誘拐（abduction）であった可能性が高いと判断しています。

この事例は、マリウッド周辺でチームが関わった唯一のミッシングタイムのケースであると述べられています。テッド・フィリップスは、マリウッドにおける多くの異常現象の中でも、特にこのような深刻な事例に懸念を抱いていたことが示唆されます。

文字起こし

transcript 1of4

This is Tom Ferrario, Ted Phillips' protege at Marley Woods and beyond for Dead Hand Radio. First of all, welcome to Dead Hand Radio. That's the official demarcation for the start of the episode. We are not live. This is pre-recorded. But yeah, I for one am not familiar with Ted Phillips' work. (0:00:58)

And you were the first person that even gave me a hint that there was anything going on in Marley Woods. So I'd really like to get into the origins because like you said, not a lot of the newer people to the field of ufology and paranormal activity are familiar with that whole episode. (0:01:25)

And so if we could give like a pretty basic groundwork to start from and then go from there, I think it'll be an interesting conversation. Okay, we'll do that. And basically, Alan Heineck was an academic that the government brought in on Project Blue Book, which I'm sure many of your viewers are aware of Blue Book. And Ted Phillips became his prettiche. (0:01:53)

He was his assistant and became a lifelong friend with Alan. And when Alan was sent into cases, they met one of their top cases was the Lonnie Zamora's case in Socorro, New Mexico. And that's where they had one of their first working relationships for Blue Book. And Ted was, whenever Alan was out, he had a little bit of health issues through the years. (0:02:23)

And whenever he had prior commitments, he would bring, Ted would step in for him. So Ted Phillips, which was his protege, did a body of work with Alan. And Alan at that point thought that Ted should specialize in physical trace cases. And Ted was an engineer, so he did the grunt work, he did the soil sampling, the background work, all the documentation for Alan. So he has, to this day, he has over 3,000 documented physical trace cases to his credit. (0:02:58)

So that, I will tell you, just touches a little bit of Ted. And Ted went worldwide. Alan sent Ted, and this isn't widely known, I've just brought this out since Ted's passing, which Ted passed away last year, unfortunately. But he was in the Soviet Union, he was in Africa, he was in Vietnam, which is a very interesting case that I broke on that. (0:03:36)

But he got a body of work out of that, and he actually, overseas, he documented almost 1,500 physical trace cases. And when I say physical trace case, what I'm talking about here is he'd go out, and actually, this was a day, unfortunately not like now, of more of the structured craft, the classic saucer, a saucer structured craft would come down, put down three indentations, and Ted would do the science. (0:04:15)

He'd go out there with a soil, an instrument that would determine the compaction of the soil. And contrary to popular belief, and one of the things that Ted determined to weed out some of the fake cases in the field was, these things have a great, tremendous amount of weight to them. (0:04:38)

And he was getting readings in three pods that were put down, landing gear that were put down, typically around three to six inches, he would get a total tonnage of approaching 20,000 pounds. So for like a 20 or 30 foot craft, you're getting a weight of around 20 to 30, 30,000 pounds? Yes, yes. (0:05:02)

So that tells you the nature of the beast there, what these things are capable of, actually the science behind them. And it went into other realms that after years working with Alan, that Ted and Alan had formed a belief in, oh more than a belief, they'd formed absolutely documentation to prove, and this is, a lot of ufologists aren't going to like this, but they totally believe and know that these things are dimensional, hyperdimensional, they're not interplanetary. (0:05:39)

They have capabilities that far exceed our physics. And you know, Ted, I might add another close associate with Ted, which comes into play with Marley Woods. I don't know if you've heard of the name, I'm sure you have now with Phenomenon, the Jacques Vallee. He actually came out and spent time with us and worked with us at Marley Woods, as he had in Skinwalker Ranch. So the physics that they put together, it's a great body of work that I can only tell you, I could be here days and not go into everything that Ted was a part of. And then we can get into Marley Woods if you like. (0:06:25)

Yes, I would like to ask a few more questions about Ted Phillips and then get into your background just a little bit and talk about how you and he came to work together. Before I get into that, you said a couple of things that really struck a chord. And one of those was that, correct me if I'm wrong, but did you say that Ted and Alan Hynek were convinced that these craft are hyperdimensional versus interplanetary? Absolutely, absolutely. (0:07:01)

Could you go into that a little bit? The nature of the craft, and there's a primer I'm actually going to be releasing that's a combination of Alan and Ted's work and Jacques Vallee's work and others. A gentleman named Ray Stanford, I don't know if you're familiar with him at all. He's a good friend of mine. He actually was in the Socorro, New Mexico case again. (0:07:30)

He was there with Ted and Alan. And he ran Project Starlight way years ago. He's a very genius self-inventor and an engineer and raised quite a guy. He wrote several books and he's a part-time paleontologist. But they have all come to the conclusion that these things are absolutely dimensional because they defy the law of physics as we know them. (0:08:05)

And you know, what that gets into is, you hear so many descriptions of these things, the same description from different people in the same, actually, area. And there's such a wide variety of descriptions. And they have proved that these things, when they come interdimensionally, that depending on your viewpoint, they're very directional. One person will see one thing, another person will see another thing. (0:08:33)

They exhibit, the way they can transgress this is they have, they create an envelope through their technology. That's why you hear these craft come in the lately released films of these things, the military release, why they go many times the speed of sound, don't make a sonic boom. They're seen to go in the water and mock, you know, pass the speed of sound and come right out of the water, not losing any momentum, no speed. (0:09:10)

So this is all a hyperdimensional aspect that they have. And the occupants in them, when they're in this envelope, the physics in our side, our dimension doesn't apply to what's in this envelope in the craft. And it's, it's, they had several instances where they proved this with technology. This also evades any type of monitoring equipment, you know, it evades radar at times, and they can virtually be seen on radar or visually when they want to. (0:09:41)

And if they don't want to be, you're not going to see them. So I've got a primer of 10 things, I'm going to release the work of Ted and Alan's and different people in the field that explains just virtually everything that aspect of ufology and explains a lot of the, the how could this happen. (0:10:01)

So that in a nutshell is what, why they deem this thing hyperdimensional. And now this gets into the entities themselves. And I will tell you that the capability, why things are seen, and one person can see something the other person won't see, and we experienced that a lot of times out in Marley Woods ourselves, between us. (0:10:30)

So I can document a lot of their work myself through visually being there and experiencing it. So there, there is a growing consensus that these things may be inhabiting our oceans. What do you say to those people? Is it a different phenomenon that is inhabiting the oceans? Or is it the same? It's, it's absolutely the same, we feel. (0:11:06)

And I will say, just touching in a little bit of my background. I was in MUFON for several years, the founder, Walt Andrus, and John Schuessler, the other founders, a good friend of mine, but Walt convinced me through some of my cases I did when I was a young, young boy, I researched in my area, to be a section director. (0:11:25)

And I went on to become friends with a state section, state director of MUFON in Missouri, Bruce Witteman, and who he turned it over to a very capable gal who's had, named Debbie Ziegelmeier, and she's had a couple shows on the History Channel and Discovery. And, but Debbie and I founded the MUFON dive team for them. (0:11:55)

And we, we had plans, we dove on some things, but we very much know and feel that this is all related. It's the same phenomenon. At times they don't always use their technology. They want to have a place that's comfortable to turn it off, have a, have more, more or less a port, and do what they wish, you know, and, and with the technology they have, when you see their technology and it's what they can do it, you know, depth doesn't apply to them at all, you know, and compression. (0:12:30)

But I will tell you that we believe it's all, yes, it's all the same entity and same phenomenon. Interesting. Okay. That goes into grounds, even with the cryptid beings, and we found in Marley, and we all believe it's all part of the same phenomenon. I've heard differing viewpoints on that one. My own opinion, I think that it is the same. (0:13:04)

I've had people challenge me on that, but I am no expert by any means. I'm not even, I don't even consider myself a researcher. I'm just a curious person. And happily, I've been able to connect with people like yourself who know a heck of a lot more about this than I do. And I've had some of my questions answered. (0:13:21)

But every question that I have answered raises about 10 to 100,000 more questions. And to us too, I might add. Well, it's good, though, because, you know, curiosity, curiosity is a strong incentive to look into this. But I think ultimately, what everybody's looking for is the answer to what, not only what are these craft, and who's controlling them, but where are they coming from? And why are they here? So these are the answers that, you know, the big overlying answers that I'm looking for. And I don't know that I'll ever have those answered. (0:14:11)

You know, the best we can do is, Ted was a great researcher, like Alan, and documentation is everything. And Ted did reams of, and, you know, back in that day, it was all, he kept journals, you know, there was no technology that computers and even the early days when I hooked up with Ted, there wasn't very much computer power, which would have aided us greatly. (0:14:40)

And but Ted's main goal was looking for answers in Marley too. And I will tell you that the first introduction that Ted had to Marley Woods, Ted didn't put a lot of stock in it at first, until he got to talk with the ranchers that owned Marley Woods. Because they started relaying to him, and this was the beautiful part about it, they had no knowledge of UFOs, anything at all. (0:15:17)

And which really aided the research greatly, because Ted knew there wasn't any, you know, anything that crossed over that they could have picked up on or tried to bring into the equation that he knew everything was virgin material from them with no input. So when they started relaying to him, such as the, he picked up on the white balls, the unseen force, and things of that matter. (0:15:46)

It rang a bell to him. And he got out there right away then after he a couple reports when he spoke with the ranchers. And he was always afraid it would it would turn into some, some, let's say, really dramatic cases that he experienced overseas that that really turned out bad for the participants. But people always ask why did Ted virtually spend the rest of his life at Marley investigating it. (0:16:15)

Him and I and others in our team spent a lot of, we've seen them, each other more than we've seen our own family members for some years. (0:16:20)

And, but he really got it, was worried that this would evolve into some of the high strangeness that got really bad for some of the people. And I will tell you, we all had personal effects. I myself included had physical effects from this that are long lasting to this day. And even some of the ranch owners out there and, and you're talking when I say Marley Woods, I could get into that a little bit the description whenever you're ready on that. (0:16:54)

Yes. And I'm kind of holding off on that because that's the, that's going to be the bulk of our conversation. So I would like to just postpone that just for a couple more minutes. And I want to give listeners an opportunity to get to know you a little bit. And I, I'm sure that you've already told your story and your background, but if you could just summarize it, I know you sent me a really brief bio, but if you could just summarize it and how you and Ted became friends and started working together, that'll give people an understanding of who you are and why you're bringing this story forward. (0:17:49)

Right. Okay. I'd like to start with a story that I wrote for Missouri MUFON. And Bruce brought me in, we did a couple conferences and I caught Ted's couple of his lectures, and I respected his body of work and him so great. And Ted was one of the best lecturers. He interjected, he had dry humor, he was just, he was one of the best out there. (0:18:16)

And, you know, Stanton Freeman even respected Ted so much that Stanton always thought Ted was, Stan was about the best there was and he respected Ted. But, but one of the conferences back before 2000, I approached Ted and I told him how much I respected his work. (0:18:39)

And I said, if there's anything I can ever do to help you, Ted, I'd love to be part of it and work with you. Not in a million years thinking he would respond to me, you know, I thought he'd just give me a pat on the head and send me off. And he said, well, what do you do, Tom? And I said, well, I'm an electrician by trade. (0:18:58)

I was an engineer, machinist, a dive master. And however that I filled in for an electrical engineer I worked with. And I said, whatever I can do to help you, you know, I'd be glad to. And he said, well, he said, what are you doing next week? And I said, I said, are you serious? And he said, well, heck yes, I'm serious. (0:19:15)

He said, he said, you come out and meet me at such and such place and show me what you got. And we'll go from there. So I did what he said and it became a long, we met at a location and Marley is a, you know, for a long time in the lecture circuit, Ted wouldn't even give you what state it was in. (0:19:45)

And he did narrow it down to Missouri, which is partially true. But, and I will add at this point that Marley Woods is a totally fictitious name. So don't go trying to look it up. It was there to done that way to protect the ranchers and their anonymity. And, but I started going out with Ted at that point. (0:20:06)

And we formed a relationship and he would get me to run wires, put up security cameras and that sort of thing. And just a little insight of what we did with, I remember one time I climbed a 30, 30 foot rickety old windmill, mounting cameras, arranging them, pointing their, their view. (0:20:27)

And I was pretty proud of myself. I knew where the activity was. And I, Ted was in the, and the ranchers actually built Ted a two story office out there that we worked out. And it was our habitat we stayed in. And on one occasion, Ted was out on the deck and he'd come out and I was pretty proud of myself. I thought I had arranged the cameras in the right location. (0:20:47)

And Ted yelled out, came out and he said, well, a little to the left, Tom. And I arranged the camera. (0:20:55)

And Ted said, now a little to the right. And I'd say, well, well, Ted, that's where I, I started from. And Ted said, well, I know that, Tom. He said, I just wanted to see what was over there right now. So, but he was always constantly, you know, his mind was constantly at work trying to figure this out. And, and then we started going out. (0:21:27)

We, we, we, Ted formed a team and we brought in three other people, which worked down to two other people, which was Debbie Ziegelmeier and Adam Johnson, which is, he has his own production company in St. Louis. He filmed some shows for the PBS channel there. And he does documentaries and Adam's a great guy. (0:21:49)

And, and then we have another gentleman in our team, Rodney Dillard. And, but we've, we all got formed a close bond and worked well with each other. And we knew what Ted wanted to accomplish. And we always had that goal in mind. And the sad part was we had to do a lecture circuit. (0:22:12)

Ted, that's how we brought in the revenue. And in the process of that, we hooked up with some people that gave us funding and, which never usually worked out that Ted had to do it the scientific way and they had other goals. So that usually was always short lived. But, but that's just a short synopsis of what, how I got with Ted and what we did. (0:22:35)

Okay, good. Well, that'll, that gives a little bit more insight into your background. Tells us how you and Ted came to work together. And it sounds like the bulk of the work that you guys did together happened over here at this fictional named location, real location, fictional name, for secrecy purposes and privacy purposes, called Marley Woods, somewhere in Missouri, not too far from St. Louis, I'm guessing. And is it still secret, the location of the place? (0:23:18)

Oh, yes. Okay. And I will add, just interject there that we had worked on a couple other cases with, we did a, actually we won, we were invited to review a case in Aztec, New Mexico. There was a crash site there years ago. And we were up there investigating this and Stan Freeman took part of that, Timothy Good and some other ufologists. (0:23:50)

And, and we did, we went back and did a re-examination of the Socorro case with Ted and some others. So we did, we did a little thing at Chaco Canyon and some of the culture there and UFO related information. So we did do a few other things, but I will say Marley was, Ted was so preoccupied and we all were with Marley, that took the bulk of our time. (0:24:18)

Now, before we get into the work that you guys did out of Marley Woods, would you just explain kind of the, the, first of all, what was going on out there and, and how did Ted become aware of it? Before you talk about what you guys found out there, what are some of the anomalous incidents that were occurring and how did you guys come to know about them? Okay. The, the property owners were looking for answers. (0:24:45)

They, and I will say at this point that this goes back in, in this area. We've traced it back several generations, well over a hundred years. We couldn't trace it back in Native Americans because, and now this sounds, this actually, you can read a lot more into this than it sounds. (0:25:01)

We could not find any Native American participants or culture in this area, such as arrowheads and petroglyphs or anything of that nature. And which in around this area, several miles, it's like anywhere in Missouri, you're going to find arrowheads. You're going to find Native American culture. This area, there never has been that found. So, so did they avoid this area? Is that, does that say something in itself? We think it actually does. (0:25:31)

Now, the land and property owners got together and they were looking for answers. And they got, the only place they could find that was vaguely interested in this was MUFON, the Mutual UFO Network. So they contacted that in Missouri and got ahold of Bruce Witteman. And Bruce was a good friend of Ted Phillips anyway. (0:25:58)

And he asked Ted, he said as a favor. And Ted dabbled, he was in and out doing work for MUFON throughout the years. And Ted said at first, well, I'm busy. I don't know. And Bruce sent him some of the reports. And when he read, got into the details, when he seen the details were exactly what he was confronting overseas, he immediately took the case and went out and met the property owners. (0:26:20)

And that's how he got brought into Marley Woods. What were the details of the occurrences going on out there? Okay. Yes. Now this, this rod runs a gambit of high strangeness. I will start out with the light balls, of course. You have white light balls, various sizes. You have yellow, green, ambers, we call them, which can take the form of not actually a light bulb in any particular shape or whatever they wish to become. (0:27:00)

And then the ones you really got to look out for the red light balls. They exhibit the most energy or the, and they're the, the culprits that have done the most damage overseas. And when you get into a scenario, when you start seeing red light balls or people reporting them, you know, it's the, it's going to go bad. (0:27:20)

And, but other than that, we have the unseen force and the unseen force is things such as that knocks down steel gates with log chains. It breaks off steel hinge pins, knocks the gates flat on the ground, knocks over trees. Just, it's unimaginable. Moves vehicles that are, that are parked without engines locked in gear, runs them through people's garage doors. (0:27:53)

The unseen force is a very capable high energy force, which at time when we, we thought there'd been reports of, uh, also in conjunction with animals being levitated, they'd find animals in treetops out there, literally torn apart. So, um, then that's the unseen force. Then you get into other phenomena though, the light beams, which is what the ranchers and people in the area had reported for years out there, which are light beams that come down where you can never see the source. They sweep the fields as if they're looking for something. (0:28:36)

The locals call them that they're always hunting. Uh, at times it is actually come down on individuals, the ranchers. We had experiences ourselves where we were caught in the light beams. (0:28:50)

And it's not a pleasant experience, which I'll go into later. That's the one that usually gives us side effects. We have, uh, tracks, uh, tracks that go out on ice that are 13 inches in diameter, three-toed tracks that go out on the ice into a pond and terminate in the center of the pond. But we have tracks like that on land. (0:29:23)

We have, of course, the cryptids, all various forms of animal-like things out there reported by people that live there. And, uh, and we have physical trace cases. We have hair. We have 17-inch long white, pure white hair found on barbed wire fences. We've taken and we've sent in for DNA work and microscopy, which have come back no known match, which is interesting. (0:29:56)

We have, we've poured, we've got tracks we've, we've cast out there, these creatures. Um, it just goes into, and then we have vortexes that, uh, like a strong wind, and it's a little hard to describe, where you'll see a tree, uh, just being whipped around like it's in a vortex, like a tornado. (0:30:20)

And, uh, things underneath it being picked up. And, you know, on a windless day, stormless day, Ted's experienced that himself several times. Uh, various forms of lights out there. And, uh, so it just runs the gambit of just high strangeness that, uh, you just can't imagine in one location. And, uh, and then, of course, as well, it's deemed that the portals that we actually think we've located three areas where there were portals out there, uh, where things come in and out of. So... That's a lot. (0:30:53)

That's in a nutshell what we dealt with. Were there any reports of craft in the area, physical craft? Yes, we have. There's usually two types of structured craft that have been seen there. We have, on a rare occasion, had reports of the typical saucer-like craft, structured craft, uh, silver, 30-foot in diameter, which is typical, very rare. That's the one Ted's liked. He liked to deal with those because he could get physical trace from them. (0:31:31)

Uh, we have several reports, landowners going to their property at night or dusk and seeing what was a, uh, football-sized length, cylindrical, black, jet black, tubular craft with a row of yellow-lit, backlit windows on the bottom of these craft. And one rare instant, we have a report of light balls entering and coming out of this craft. (0:32:05)

So, uh, there are, we do have structured craft reports out there. They're very rare, though, in, compared to everything else that goes on. And, um, but we do have those. The, uh, the activity you're describing, uh, where, well, it varies somewhat in, in detail. It's, it's similar to what's going on at Skinwalker Ranch. Does that sound, uh, accurate to you? It's absolutely accurate. (0:32:39)

And I will tell you that, uh, you know, Robert Bigelow, you may be familiar with that name. I can release the name now and tell you that we did work with him for a brief period. Uh, and you know, Jacques Vallee, and was out, he spent a good part of time at Skinwalker. And Jacques spent time with us, and he was such a good friend of Ted's he had worked with. And I will tell you that, that Jacques, after, before he left on one occasion, told us, he said that, he said, Ted, I believe there's a higher rate or possibility of cases of high strangeness at Marley than at Skinwalker. Because virtually everything that happened at Skinwalker, we have reports of that at Marley. And I mean, there's some strange stuff. (0:33:29)

Now, I don't want to jump ahead of you, but I do want to, one thought I want people to take away, do I believe that all the cryptids, the strange entities that have been seen at Marley, that there's a living, breeding population of these things at Marley? I, we absolutely have formed a conclusion there isn't. But when these things are there, and we believe there again, they come through dimensionally, they're as real and exhibit physical traces as we are. (0:34:01)

But when they're not there, you could walk through this property, and hand to hand with 1000 men, and you're not going to find anything. So that's a difficulty you have to work with also. The, the scientific studies that you guys have conducted at Marley Woods, is it, is it still ongoing? Or has that ceased? (0:34:31)

It's, it's ceased as, as far, I mean, we get, we get data back from the ranchers. In fact, two nights ago, I, I got called three times in one day, and the last time was at nine o'clock. And one of the ranchers apologized to me, said, Tom, I hate to bother you again, but you're not going to believe what's happening. (0:35:00)

And I said, I said, don't, don't hesitate for a moment, don't, you're not bothering me. I said, thank you so much. I said, you know us, anytime, day and night, you want to talk, call me. So we're getting data like that, that I'm logging. Are we out there physically constantly anymore? No, we're not. And I will tell you that it's basically due to this damn virus. The ranchers had given me total authority to do what I want out there. (0:35:28)

They, they wish, anytime I want to go out there, they, they'd love it. They would like, their wishes are that I would not bring a whole lot of people in the area right now with the virus, and I won't betray that trust. Because they're all up in age now. And, you know, that's the last thing I want to do. (0:35:55)

And I will tell you, we've had several production companies wanting to get in there. Our team shot a couple episodes way back. You remember UFO Hunters? That was on TV with Bill Burns. Yeah, I do vaguely remember that, that show. It was short lived, wasn't it? Like one season? Well, no, actually, it filmed several seasons. Unfortunately, we filmed three episodes, one aired, and the other two episodes remain never seen when they terminated their show. (0:36:30)

And I hope that wasn't from us. I don't think so. But, but there's so many people would like to get and do things. But like I say, right now, with this, with this damn virus, I am working at, at this moment, we're working on trying to get a cellular network. (0:36:52)

Ted, one of Ted's goals was back then, and this was when Wi-Fi first came into existence. We couldn't get internet connection out there. The people out there are so remote, we're lucky to have telephones. So there is capabilities now. He wanted to have a network of cameras out there that we could pull up, that was his dream, from wherever location in the ranchers, anybody we, and we wanted to make that known on our, on our website at that time we had. And, but we're working at that now through, we want to put up a series of cellular can't trail cams. (0:37:31)

And there's a way to do this now because even even cellular connection out there is really terrible. So the next best thing is there's a way to do self cellular trail cams through a sat phone. Now, I can't express to you how costly that is. So I can imagine we want to build up a network of 15 cameras to start. (0:37:55)

So you're looking at a considerable investment there. But that is our ultimate goal to be there, you know, even because this stuff reads your weakness. When you're out there, you when you least expect it after hours and hours in the field and 10 degrees, you start breaking up camp and you get your equipment broke down. (0:38:14)

And that's why we learned that we always tried to have one individual have cameras on. But when you least expect that this stuff would happen, it there is an intelligence we dealt with out there. And I can go into more than that later. But so that's our main goal right now. So the activity out there is continuing has the has the level of the activity or the intensity of the activity changed at all? Or does it continue just as much as it always has? (0:38:46)

As of the last year, it has increased. There was a no period. But I will tell you the call I had the other night, nine o'clock, they had one of the largest white light ball sightings, events that they had ever seen at Marley. And they actually thought it was the moon at first. (0:39:15)

And the resident and they're getting up there in age. And they got out there. The caretaker at one of the place called them to get out there. They no longer live at the site. They live in a nearby town. And so they traveled out there. And they experienced it, they seen it, they took some photos, which the property owner is getting to me. (0:39:31)

And I will, by the way, I do on my Facebook page, I since we lost our website, we had to take it down through individuals we were working with that didn't that required that was the worst thing we could have done for our project. But we I basically use the Marley Woods, Ted Phillips, Marley Woods Research Center group page I have. (0:39:57)

And I put the latest photos information on that reports and on my personal web, Facebook page is more or less a devoted to this work. So you can go there at any time and I will post the latest reports and photos that way. Besides different radio appearances, I made one last night and but with Tim Beckley and but as soon as I get these photos back, I will post them and and I do have some software we do some of the I have most of the software we used out there and some of the equipment. (0:40:38)

We try to I try to do analysis. I've got a couple people that help me. And so we try to get out what's what's current out there. But yes, the activity is in the last year and January, February, February and March seem to be peak periods in Marley all through recorded history. And, and unlike you most people in paranormal, and I will say, when I grouped this in paranormal, this is a sort of a sore spot that was with Ted and Alan and that they differed over this for years. (0:41:15)

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And Ted come to realization that Alan was so far ahead of his hit, everybody and he was right. And Ted come to believe this, absolutely, that paranormal activity, ufology is all of the same animal. It's all interdimensional, and it all comes from the same source. Now that's I know that'll step on a lot of people's toes. But if I have to put my money on anybody's expertise, I'll go with Ted and Alan and several in the field. (0:41:45)

So on that, on that note, I will not disagree with you because this is a I've had this conversation with several people. And like I said, I've had pushback from a lot of people within the community. But this is this is one of the areas where I feel strongly that all of these things, all these activity, including ghosts, I feel like they're all somehow interrelated. (0:42:19)

Yes. And you know, I can't express to you back when I started with MUFON. And Bruce Whiteman assigned me to an Air Force captain that trained me. And I thought I knew a little bit about it from I come from a rural town. And I was wanting to do some family personal experience. I was always interested in it. I had one experience myself as a young boy. (0:42:36)

So I got to be known in a small town, you get to be known as somebody that would listen and not ridicule. So whenever anybody after that has an exciting or an experience, they go to you. (0:42:49)

So then when I got hooked up with MUFON and got some training after Bruce assigned me to a gentleman named Jim Cross, Air Force captain, and trained me a lot of the photo analysis work and how to actually get out and interview people. The reality of it there, it's just, you know, at that point, if you'd have told me whenever I heard about Bigfoot sightings, or, you know, cryptids associated with UFO, I would actually get, I'd get mad. (0:43:25)

I'd have a resistance to and I'd go like, no, I throw it out. You know, no, I'm not gonna spend time with it. Little did I know what a turnaround I would come, just as Ted did, that it's all one in the same animal, you know? And so it's been a learning experience for me, not a pleasant one at times. But I would lay money down and bet that it's been an interesting journey. (0:43:54)

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that, that it has been more so than I ever could have dreamed. And I had a gentleman, well, Walt Andrews, who was the founder of MUFON, told me one time when I related, I did some cases that I had covered in my area in Missouri. And a couple cases, he informed me that, that what really picked, he picked up on was, and I had no knowledge of this at the time, that Blue Book had actually gotten involved with. (0:44:29)

And I did, you know, I did not know this at all. And so that's why he kind of pushed me into getting into MUFON. And, but it has been a ride, I will tell you. And my greatest dream was hooking up with Ted, you know, and I learned so much from that man that, you know, you just can't buy an education like that. (0:44:52)

What you are doing by bringing his work to the forefront for a new generation is an honorable thing. And I, I, I commend you for that. And I appreciate you taking the, I appreciate that, what you're doing. Well, I look at it as an honor. I really do, to get Ted's work out there and who he was and what he was. (0:45:18)

And you can catch a few of his lectures on YouTube. And I recommend strongly, don't listen to me. If you listen to five minutes of Ted Phillips, when he was in his prime, I am so far inadequate to even mention his name. Believe me, it's, he was the best out there. He could hold an audience and inform an audience in ways that I, I've seen him be, go out for a, be brought on for a two hour lecture. (0:45:46)

And I've seen him go on for four hours and the people were begging him not to leave. So, but I do urge people to go on YouTube and look up Ted Phillips and try to watch a couple of his, and LA did a great one there at LA MUFON conference and there's some others. (0:46:07)

And, and that's not even getting into his body of work that he did on a project called Moonshaft that I urge you to look up Moonshaft on YouTube. And that's a project we were getting funding. Ted had been there twice and that's a whole story in a night in itself though, I'll tell you. (0:46:29)

Maybe we could revisit that another time. But I am curious, what part of the country are you from originally? Did you originate? I'm from Missouri. Oh, okay. Is that where you live now? Yes. Yes. I'm, yeah, I grew up in a small rural town called Herman, Missouri. It's, I wasn't born there. (0:46:52)

I was born in St. Louis, Missouri. And at the age of three, we, my parents moved to Herman and actually started a restaurant and motel business in a little town back in the 60s. So that's, and I grew up in Herman, which is my hometown and it's a great little town. (0:47:15)

But, and with so much I might add back then, and of course, I'm, as I'm beginning to find out, there really, there were, there was so much UFO activity throughout the nation, actually. When you get into cases and dig, I have yet to find a state where there hasn't been a lot of activity back in the 60s and 70s, really. (0:47:36)

And, but, you know, I'd have family members that come and speak to me about things, incredible cases. And I've got the paperwork. I always wanted to publish a book on the rural cases out here. You, I mean, because some of them, and I, like I said, I spoke with Walt Andrus about, and I had no idea that Blue Book had been involved, but just tremendous cases, you know, even one abduction case that happened, you know, a couple miles from where I live now. (0:48:10)

You know what, right there is something that we did not talk about, but it's an anomaly that is experienced in many cases, is missing time. Have you guys had any kind of missing time out on the Marley Woods? You know, we haven't, we haven't had that. (0:48:25)

And we did have one witness that had a son, that actually a son, it was a case where the son had gone out, and I will say he was a very special person to this family. And it wasn't, we actually, Ted deemed it could have been an abduction, most likely was, where he had gone out the door, and this was a, there was snow around, he went out barefoot, and his, there again, his tracks terminated about 15 foot from the front door. He was gone three days. (0:49:12)

The family was, they had the sheriff out there, they searched, they couldn't find anything. Three days later, the kid comes walking in the door, as he left that morning, and doesn't know anything's wrong. How old was he? And he was 13 years old. And he doesn't have any recollection of what happened. To his point of view, he walked out, turned around, came back. (0:49:37)

There was no time, you know, discrepancy there. So that's the only case of missing time that we have in that area. But there was so much more out there. But it happens, you know. And we dealt with that, MUFON's dealt with that in Missouri quite a bit, you know, abductions. And I will add that Debbie Ziegelmeier is the state director now for MUFON, and she has an assistant, Margie Kay, in Kansas City, if anybody has any cases they can connect with MUFON and report to them. (0:50:19)

But, you know, it's just... but we've had just... you can't believe the cases of high strangeness we've had out there with people. You're calling them lightbulb balls, and I've heard people refer to a similar anomaly as orbs. Would you say they're the same thing, or are these different? They really are the same thing. Ted didn't like the terminology orb, because it kind of denoted the spiritualistic effect, you know, when you... people... the connotations with orb, where when Ted wanted... he wanted to study something on a scientific realm, he called it what he's seen. (0:51:12)

He's seen a light bulb, that's what he put it down as. He didn't want to go into that terminology, because it just led to so many other avenues, you know. Not saying that it isn't, but just he wanted to go precisely with what he's seen. So, that's why we had our orders to call them light bulbs. (0:51:38)

So... Okay. A lot of the activity that you've described also resonates with a case that is described by the Bledsoe family, Chris Bledsoe and his family. Have you talked with them or looked into that case at all to see if there's any correlation? No, we really hadn't, you know. Not to say that there hasn't been... I know that the mutual UFO network has people that had, but basically all our time and Ted's time in the States lately, you know, he... Ted worked at Delphos. I don't know if you're familiar with the Delphos campus? (0:52:18)

I'm not familiar with that one. Look, I might have looked that up on the internet. (0:52:24)

There's a... I think there's a couple pieces on YouTube about that or... Can you spell that? Pardon? Can you spell that? Delphos, D-E-L-P-H-O-S, I believe. And that's in Kansas. And that is an incredible case of a circular craft landing and a farm boy went out, left a ring of illuminated soil for several days. People went out there and touched this ring, developed a rash and a numbing of their extremities. (0:53:06)

And for several days, in fact, the mother of the boy had a numbness in her one hand that she never did completely leave. And the soil there, which I will add that Ted was working with Alan Hynek on that. And that was one that Ted had gotten over 35 pounds of soil samples. Now, if you know the soil sampling method, that denotes how much sampling that Ted did to get 35 pounds of soil that they sent to analysis at labs. (0:53:47)

And the soil... and here again, Ted was always drawing from his knowledge. When we would find things in Morley, he would directly relate to this. It would document their pedigree. So one of the things that Ted found out there, Delfo's case, was the soil all became in this ring hydrophobic, which that, of course, you know, that means that resistance to absorb water. And I will tell you that Ted had these samples for over 30 years and he could pull them out and they were just as hydrophobic as the day he got these samples. (0:54:22)

And we did come across that in soil analysis in Morley, that in a couple of the agroglyphs, the soil at the bottom would be hydrophobic. And that's the only anomaly we could really associate with the agroglyphs. And there again, as in light balls, the terminology, Ted did not like to call what some people would refer to as crop circles. (0:54:51)

Ted, in the old days, if it was associated with a disc or saucer, that the old timers called them saucer nests, or they were put down by, they were called agroglyphs. So that was a big no-no with us. We could not call them, he did not like the terminology crop circle. I really like that term, agroglyphs, and that's the first time I've ever heard it. (0:55:13)

Was it used to describe what we know as crop circles, which are these geometric, very beautiful, artistic shapes and forms all around the world, basically. Is that what the agroglyphs is describing? That, the terminology fits that. We've never experienced those at Morley, or Ted never experienced that personally. His were always the agroglyphs or saucer nests laid down. And he'd always, the thing that he would go for was, you had to have an eyewitness sighting of a craft coming up out of the saucer nest to put it in conjunction with a craft. (0:56:08)

So often the agroglyphs are in conjunction there as they're termed, you know, they're put in the same basket with UFOs. And unless you would physically, you'd have eyewitness testimony that that the craft was in the area that made this, you could never say that it was a saucer nest, you know, or UFO oriented. (0:56:40)

So, but now that's not to say, I believe a lot of them are real, the agroglyphs, that it's just a shape put down in, you know, whether it be whatever type of plant life it is, you know, out there, which is various things. But ours and what Ted always investigated were the circular agroglyphs. And that's what we dealt with in Marley. You alluded to some of the negative physical effects that people studying the Marley area have encountered. Do you want to get into that a little bit now? (0:57:17)

Oh, yeah, I sure can, if you're ready for it. Yeah, absolutely. (0:57:22)

The property owners have, for years, experienced when they've been near or in what's termed the light beams, David, some have experienced a tingling sensation on their arms and hands. A condition called the, what the one of the local doctors here, he called the condition touchy scalp. And that's basically where your scalp, your hair, gets so sore. (0:57:59)

And it feels like a bad sunburn, you can't even touch your hair, which I experienced that myself. And then it goes into the range where Ted has actually experienced. He on a couple occasions where him and I were in a vehicle, and we were in a light beam. And I hate to draw the analogy to close encounters of the third kind. (0:58:22)

And, of course, I don't know how many people watch that movie now. I don't know if you're familiar with that. Okay, one of my favorite movies, the scene with a light beam when he's in the truck, in the service truck. And well, we experienced that directly ourselves only with I all I can tell you is it was three times the intensity is what that portrayed to a degree where you could not even see in the vehicle. (0:58:52)

It and we've seen the light retract off the vehicle. And which is really strange when you're speaking about light because you never experienced this. I haven't and don't know how you would would do this. But we've seen a distinct cut off of the light beam as it retracted into a circular. And the best way I can describe it is the old type of aperture and the old cameras that have that twisting motion. (0:59:20)

We've seen this light retract into that and it was it was gone. Now that night is specifically when we got back to the office site three. Ted got violently ill and vomited. At the time, I did not do that. This and we think we're dealing a lot in the area with microwave radiation. But I did not have that effect. In hindsight, I wished I would have had that effect. (0:59:52)

It affects everyone differently. And my and this is all documented as high strangeness and Ted for years didn't like to speak about this when we would lecture because he didn't he believed that the investigation, the people, the researchers should never become part of the research, you know. (1:00:21)

So he gave us an open hand. We could speak about it. But he always led us to a place where when we were determining if we were going to talk about it, he he'd ask us if we really wanted to do that. He didn't want things focusing on us. So we didn't really speak about it a lot. (1:00:45)

And but I had a condition. I had the same thing that the ranchers had. I had I went in and got treated. I was home a month and I went in and they put me on strong painkillers. They thought at first it was shingles. They tested me. It wasn't shingles. They said it wasn't. It was like a bad sunburn. (1:01:03)

But they just come to the conclusion, well, it could have been some form of radiation. And in I will tell you in a month from that day, my hair went from being dark brown to being white to blonde to is what it is today. And now that's not the worst of it, what I experienced. Because we we had in our team, we had four experiences with a light beam. (1:01:31)

I was with Ted on one occasion. I was with Adam Johnson on one occasion. Another researcher and I was out in the field. And I was with one of the property owners. So the common factor is I was involved in the in exposed four times directly. Now, I don't know if that's a result of that, I think the compilation of that. (1:02:00)

But I started having a couple years later having vision problems. And I went in, I couldn't see very well out of my left eye at all. I went into an eye doctor that sent me to a specialist. And I don't know if you've ever heard of the condition called a macular cyst. (1:02:11)

Not, not, no, not to read. I don't, I kind of understand what that is, a cyst on the eye. Sort of like cataracts, but deeper in the eye. Okay. And it's usually associated with age, great age. Of course, at the time, I wasn't of great age. And they really even in age, they don't know what causes this condition. (1:02:42)

It's a cyst that grows in the eye behind the lens. And the surgery for that removal and it sets you in the right path is it can come out extremely good, or it can come out, you can lose eyesight mostly in that eye. I did have one surgery, I had a macular cyst removed from my left eye. (1:03:00)

They left it in the right eye because it wasn't that bad. It's still there. I did develop cataracts from that. And I had the cataracts removed also. And to this day, my vision, it's always changing glasses. At days, I don't need glasses at all. Other days, reading glasses just doesn't cut it. So that's the downside of exposure. And now the interesting part about this was when I was in a hospital in St. Louis, and of course, you talk to the eye doctors, and they'll tell you they don't know the cause of this. (1:03:36)

On my last day there, when they were taking the bandages off, I had a young doctor that was in there. And I said something to him about it, you know, I wished I knew what this was. And he said, he proceeded to tell me, thank God I asked this guy. He said, well, the only case I've ever seen of that, Tom, is we had two cell workers one time in here. They were on a cell tower working. (1:03:59)

And they were up there and they turned to fire this thing up, not knowing there were two men on it yet. And they both had vision problems. And they developed the same condition I had due to microwave energy. Well, when this doctor told me that, I mean, you can see exactly where I went with that. (1:04:28)

Because a lot of our science out there that Ted experienced and researched, even abroad, the biggest factor they dealt with was microwave radiation. And we had one very dramatic case of an animal being killed by what we, Ted Dean, was microwave energy burst. And I can go into that with you sometime today. Marley Woods is just an intriguing place. And I can't even, you know, if you've read the book Skinwalker or seen the new series, everything that's happened there virtually has happened in Marley. We've dealt with all the high strangeness. (1:05:12)

And I'm talking about all the cryptids, the cattle mutilations, strange entities. It just, it's all one in the same thing. There's so many similarities there. I will say this, just because you brought it up. Until about five years ago, I was more or less on the fence about ufology, about cryptids, about ghosts and anything that you would consider high strangeness. (1:05:46)

To me, it could have been explained by something prosaic, something normal. We just didn't know how to put those into terms that we understand. When I picked up the Hunt for the Skinwalker by George Knapp and Colm Kelleher, and it was about their investigation by the Bigelow. That's it. Yeah, exactly. That book right there literally changed my life. (1:06:12)

I went from being a semi-skeptic to a believer. Now, I was a closet believer. I didn't really go out and start telling everybody, hey, I believe this is true or that true. Until 2017, when the New York Times article came out. Then that gave me the confidence to start talking to people about what I feel is the truth. (1:06:38)

I will tell you that the gentleman that helped write that book, Colm Kelleher, is a good friend of mine. He worked for Bigelow. He still does. He came out to Marley, spent time in Marley with us. We have a connection. I was given that book. You know, I was so caught up. (1:06:58)

I didn't have time, really. Ted said, you need to read this book, Tom. I finally got around to reading it. I was just astounded at the similarities. You could put Marley Woods on that book. That's what led Bigelow to get involved with Ted and because he recognized the similarities and that these things have a commonality about them, and not just there, worldwide. (1:07:27)

When you started telling me, just listing all the weird anomalies that are going on out there, I mean, you could have been describing what I read in that book about Skinwalker Ranch. It's a fascinating location. And it's interesting. Have you done any studies, like really in-depth studies, like mathematical calculation type analysis to see what is similar between the two locations? No, we haven't. We really haven't gone in any studies in depth, you know, between the two. (1:08:16)

I will tell you that when individuals involved in Skinwalker were out at our place and spent time with us, they seen so many, you know, so many odd things that were taking place back, they could directly relate to, they were dealing with, that it just, it was like they were back at Skinwalker. And the odd thing about it is that, unlike Skinwalker, there again, I will say that there's, there were truly, I believe, at Skinwalker, it can go back into Native American presence and influence, which the strange thing is, we have a lot of that same oddities and entities at Marley, but we know we have absolutely no Native American input into it there. (1:09:06)

So, how can these things, which are attributed, and I'm speaking now briefly about wolf-like creatures, you know, Skinwalkers themselves, you know, we have eye sightings, and this gets into such strangeness that when I, the field I came from, ufology, with MUFON, I would, this is far against my grain, I would not have went there. (1:09:31)

But when you deal with eyewitness testimonies, as Ted taught us, you have to take it and accept it. And, you know, we have caretakers out at these ranches that have seen progressions of hooded figures on the roads, private roads, and when they got close to these things, they've shot at them and no effect. (1:09:52)

One individual said they turned to him, and the only thing he's seen had like a wolf-like face, one of the hooded figures. Now, where do you go with that? I mean, do I believe these individuals seen these things? I absolutely do. Do I believe there's a breeding population on there? I know there isn't. So, there again, it enters into the dimensional aspect of it. (1:10:21)

So, but that's one thing that we really had a problem with, where do we come off having the same entities or experiences that Skinwalker had, and we don't have the commonalities there, you know? It seems to me that the... it's possible that that location may have been shunned or taboo by the local tribes in the Marley Woods area, whereas in the Utah area, those local tribes adapted it into their own culture and their own beliefs. (1:11:00)

What was going on there? That's the only thing that I could come to... conclusion I could come to. (1:11:07)

But the one thing that was probably the most alarming to me about Skinwalker, you haven't mentioned it about Marley Woods, but I'm about to ask you if it is there, is that some of the members of the group that were investigating Skinwalker Ranch reported having activity follow them home. Has that happened from at the Marley Woods location? No, it hasn't. And I will say I'm not sad about that. (1:11:54)

Believe me, that had crossed all our minds at times, especially... well, the only thing that followed me home were the physical effects that I attained there. But no, and believe me, we thought a lot about that, especially when we... the high strangeness, the more cases we got dealing with entities, and that we really... and some of the locals around there, experiences they had. (1:12:25)

And actually, you know, we never had that happen, knock on wood. But I'm thankful for that aspect, because you don't want to bring that home to your family. And contrary to popular belief, I know so many people want to get in the field and investigate things, and that's good. But, you know, you wish you get... so many people wish to get in the middle of things. (1:12:52)

And I'll just say, you know, be careful for what you wish for, you know, the attitude could come true. And there is a risk factor associated with the places as Skinwalker, as those people, even on the show now, experience, you know, at times, and what we experienced. So, you know, it's nothing you want to play around with. It's real, very real. (1:13:27)

And it happens. I've had other researchers who've been looking into these things for decades. Tell me the same thing, be careful what you wish for, because you may learn more than you want to really know. And we don't have to get into what those things are, because man, some of those things are weird. I mean, weird beyond what we're talking about right now. (1:13:49)

Oh, yeah. And that's a pretty surefire way to scare off some newbies that have just started down the path, right? You know, I mean, had I known what would have taken me, it would have scared me off, believe me. Yeah. Although being connected with Ted Phillips, I would have took the risk any day. But that's cool. I do it all over again, I can tell you that in a heartbeat. (1:14:14)

Yeah. Well, and as far as I'm concerned, my own path on this quest for the truth has been relatively benign. You know, it's been... I haven't really experienced any kind of negativity from it, other than me and a friend of mine and my wife went out to, you know, where the Black Mailbox is at Area 51. Have you heard of that? Yeah. We went up there to do some sky watching and do some astrophotography out there one night. (1:14:57)

And it was about 22 degrees outside. And we were out there until about 9pm at night. And that's all we could take. (1:15:03)

You know, we just froze our butts off being outside. That's the worst thing we've ever experienced. But I guess when you're in the field, and you're studying this stuff kind of face to face, like you are, there is a risk factor. Now, I'm curious, the name Marley Woods, you said that it's a fictional title that you guys gave the location. Can you tell me where that came from? Yes, I can. (1:15:40)

Ted had a great white Pyrenees, a dog, his name was Marley. And he loved to go in the woods near their home. So, Ted was confronted one time about a name on a report to get to this. And he was in his office at home. And he looks at the dog, and he, he instantly, he said Marley Woods. So that's how the term got its origin. (1:16:12)

But, and believe me, we've had people try to convince you they found Marley Woods, they found it on the map, it's not Missouri. And I pity the people that lived in towns named Marley Woods and communities, because they were going to be beat to death by people think they found Marley Woods. So, but that's the origin of the name. (1:16:30)

And not many people know that. I'm glad you asked that. You're the first one that's asked that in a long time. Oh, cool. But, you know, sometimes I do come up with a one or two unique questions. I try to keep it as fresh and interesting for the listeners, because I know, you know, you've done multiple interviews with other podcasters, radio shows. (1:16:59)

So I don't want to get into stuff that you've already put out there. Because if my listeners at the end of each episode, I give the guest an opportunity to say where listeners can find out more about them. And people are going to go instantly to all of your YouTube interviews, all of your podcast interviews, and just consume everything that you or any of my other guests have done. I want my interviews to be different. (1:17:25)

So that's why I try to go down paths that may have not been well traveled. Now, I know you've alluded to Ted's work overseas. He was in Vietnam for a period of time. Was he there during the war? Yes, I can. And you know, Ted recently passed away. And Ted really didn't want to get in. Ted told me, he said, Tom, he said, when I'm gone, there are certain things you can talk about. (1:17:55)

He says, I really don't give a damn when I'm gone. He didn't want to go there. He didn't want the ridicule. And he didn't want, you know, why didn't you say this? Why didn't you bring this out? Or he was a man of science. He wanted to devote his life to the physical trace and he didn't, again, want to interject what he'd been a part of. (1:18:16)

Although what he'd been a part of is some of the most incredible cases that's ever been out there. Now, the one in Vietnam, he'd been in Africa, he'd been in Soviet Union, he'd been in Germany, and Slovakia. Slovakia is where Project Moonshift is. I won't touch upon that now. But the one that so led him to the conclusion that Marley was real, and it was so relevant was, it was directly related. (1:18:45)

Everything that happened in Marley, the reports, he directly dealt with in the case in Vietnam. Now, I can go into that for you a little, just a brief synopsis, because the report... so basically what that involved was, Alan couldn't make this case. So again, Ted went, and Ted wasn't in service at all. (1:19:07)

Oh, what year was it? This was in the 60s. Okay. So it would have been during the war era, right? It was very much during the Vietnam War, and it was active. And what that entailed was, Ted was brought over with intelligence, where it should have been Heine, but they brought Ted over because Heine couldn't make it. (1:19:37)

He was brought over to Vietnam at an airfield. He was put on a chopper, one of three choppers, that lifted off and went in behind enemy lines, several miles now. And what it entailed was, there was a... and you must know that parts of Vietnam, even to this day, but especially back then, there were tribes there that were virtually Stone Age, you know? I mean, even their dialect, the rest of the Vietnamese people couldn't understand. (1:20:05)

transcript 3of4

There were very few tribesmen around the area, that it was difficult for them to find translators to understood their dialect. But they were brought into a mountaintop village plateau, where it had been, I should say. And this area had a history, here we go again, of entities in this jungle. And I can add, when I get all done with this story, I'll just give you a little insight behind this. But Ted was brought in, three choppers touched down, the translator they got, they found two surviving witnesses to what had happened. (1:20:45)

And what it entails was a story that over time, the tribe on top of this village in the mountain plateau, had built a relationship actually with entities, structured vehicles had landed there at times. And they had a working relationship, for whatever reason. All kind of strange critters in, I mean, bigfoot type like stuff, stuff we dealt with out in Marley, hooded figures again. (1:21:15)

And the biggest thing they dealt with was the unseen force in the light balls. And when, that's why when Ted got the reports from the ranchers in Missouri, of the unseen force in the light ball activity, he directly, he could not be not interested in it. So what had happened on this village, for whatever reason, it's not clear. The intelligence had reports of what they had thought was a low-grade nuclear explosion from the energy yield on top of this plateau. (1:21:51)

Well, they had roughly, they brought in some scientists and these other choppers, brought in Ted to give the ufologist, which was Alan Heineck's position, opinion, an investigation. They did soil sampling. They did a scan first. They could find no radiation, residual radiation. The villagers that they interviewed said that on this given day, for whatever reason, the villagers got into it with the occupants of this craft. (1:22:19)

And there again, it's what could they possibly with, you know, technology get into, you know, what would that serve? But evidently they did. The structured crafts left. And then three red light balls, which again, this is what got Ted so interested in Marley when he heard it. Three red light balls passed through the center of the village. Behind that came an unseen force, which totally decimated, wiped out any trace of the village, the huts, everything was down to the dirt. (1:23:00)

And they did find some bodies that were irradiated badly. There again, radiated, burned by radiation with no radiation, residual radiation. So the only thing there again, which is just so common in ufology, it was just in the microwave spectrum. (1:23:14)

Because and people say, well, it does not leave a trace. So at this point, I'll tell you, if you put a steak in a microwave oven and eat it, you can take that steak out of a microwave oven fully cooked, and you're not going to find any, you better hope there's no residual radiation on it, you know. (1:23:40)

So, but anyway, they were brought in, they had four hours only to review this site, interview. They took two of the witnesses back that were surviving, which died later. So that in a nutshell, and there's a lot more information on that, but that in a nutshell is what Ted dealt with. (1:24:02)

So now you can see directly why he, when he's seen the trademarks at Marley, why it so intrigued him, you know. And he was always worried to tell, I will say that it wasn't until very later years, and I had the task myself of telling one of the ranchers about this, that Ted was scared to death that he didn't want to worry, of course, relate this story to the ranchers what happened over there in Vietnam, and they're going to directly think, oh my god, you know, it's just going to happen to us. (1:24:34)

And so that was a degree of, you know, it never escalated to that, thank god. But the red light bulbs at Marley, when they have been seen to do things, it's not been good. So let's see. So okay, so the incident in Vietnam is still very interesting. There was a couple of survivors. Did they take witness testimony from the survivors before they passed? Yes, they did. (1:25:05)

And here again, you know, this is the part when you're dealing with the public. Ted was brought in there with intelligence. And as far as being in, I don't know if you're familiar with John Greenwald, I'm not sure, the black vault. Right. I doubt he's the... we know John, he did some projects with us. He's a great guy. And he works tirelessly at the black vault. (1:25:32)

And what he's released, you know, the Freedom of Information Act is incredible. But I doubt even with all his expertise, if he could get into an area where this has been documented. Ted looked for years after he got through Allen and tried to get to his own records, his own paperwork, he could never get back. You know, he turned everything over that he did, you know, before he left the airfield. (1:26:00)

And to this day, I don't know if anyone that's in a vault, believe me. One of several cases he worked on. And that was the understanding though, you know, they so I doubt publicly, I know, there's no awareness. And this has never been documented, you know, and I will tell you that there, there is a sidelight to this a sidebar that you're going to really find interesting. (1:26:27)

As in some of the other cases that Ted worked in. If you're familiar at all, and there was some talk, Ted always thought the origin of this movie was, do you remember the movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger? Oh, yeah, Predator. Predator. Now, think about that experience. And there was always a thought that that had gotten the seed for that loosely based on this occurrence that happened in a Vietnam jungle. (1:26:57)

So Ted could never prove that, but he had worked with people in the media. And there had been people in the media that had leaked it to Ted that that was loosely based startup on this account. (1:27:11)

And I could see that, I could, I could easily see the, the similarities between the movie Predator, and the accounts that you've just told me about this Vietnam incident. The entire village was wiped out, two survivors who later died. Yeah. So, but so what, according to them, what, what was the, was there any additional information that they gleaned from talking with the survivors? (1:27:44)

Just that, and this is the part that is really, it's, you really got to open your mind to a new level, because according to this, this tribal village, that was so primitive, that they had been dealing back with these entities as far back as their knowledge. They're passing on from generation to generation in that area. (1:28:17)

So this was not a one-time occurrence. This was a relationship that they felt that these natives had had with these entities, you know, going back maybe hundreds, thousands of years, maybe, you know, in that area, there's all kind of petroglyphs, you know, drawings of entities and things like that. So this was not, Ted didn't believe it was a one-time occurrence in that area, that it was very real. (1:28:42)

And it went way back. It had its origin in there. So something went horribly wrong that created some kind of a conflict between the anomaly or the phenomenon and the village. It was thought that maybe, you know, there was a genetic thing that was brought into play. There were some of the people that Ted had talked to there that thought maybe that they were either maybe performing experiments on these people or doing something on this tribe that they didn't want. They could not have any of this get out or, you know, escape that area. (1:29:23)

And, you know, there was some thought that they just took this village out because they were messing around with these people, you know, genetically or whatever reason. So, you know, we'll never know that. In fact, most of the world doesn't even know and we'll never know this happened. But that was one avenue that they have thought about in relation to that. Well, with that in mind, with the... oh, okay, before I get into that, sometimes I ask a partial question and then stop. (1:30:03)

So it's a good thing there's editing and this is not live. I sometimes give a partial answer. The first thing I wanted to ask you is have there been any kind of healing effects experienced from interactions with these entities? At Marley now, you're talking? Yes, yes. The closest I can come to that is a lot of the ranchers and the people that live in the area, especially the older people, I've never heard any reports of actual healing in that area. (1:30:45)

I have associated with other UFO accounts in Missouri, but not there. But the closest thing I can account to that, relate to that is that so many old people there seem to have the unique ability to have a sense about them that they predetermine when these things are going to occur, like the biggest displays and everything. (1:31:10)

Now, if you go down the religious aspect of this, some of the people will come out and drag their lawn chairs and head for where they think it's going to happen and watch it. And they think it's a good thing. Some of the people will go hide, lock their house up, turn the lights out and go to bed. And they're scared to death of this stuff. (1:31:24)

So, but there, it seems to be a commonality that a lot of the older people can actually perceive when these things are going to start. And, you know, some of them look, so that's... It seems like there's some, some enhanced precognition abilities in the local population there. That's what it sounds like you're describing. That's interesting. Have they displayed any other type of psychic abilities that you studied? (1:31:56)

No, no, that that's, that's really the bulk of it. I mean, now I can just, the only thing I can add to that personally is on one of my very first trips there, Ted has spoke about a phenomena that I didn't really pay much attention to. And, but one particular morning, we were usually out because like I said, the bewitching hour is usually 3am, not midnight as so many people think. (1:32:28)

Most people in paranormal ufology will know instantly. If you ask them what hour would do most activities start, they'll tell you 3am, not midnight. And this one particular evening, we'd been doing all kinds of prep work outside. And we, we would usually tend to go out at midnight and stay out till sun up. (1:32:56)

But one evening we stayed in, we slept and one of the rare occasions, and about 3.15 in the morning, I knew I woke up and I looked at the clock right next to me. And, and I, I felt like something shook me, woke me up. And I had this sense of overwhelming joy. (1:33:11)

And it's, I can't even describe it. And something drove, was drawing me out on, we had a big deck around three sides of this office, which was really nice. We had a fantastic view. And I went out that door and went on that deck. I expected to see the mothership out there. I mean, I felt like I was going to meet something or, I mean, I had this just sense of joy and I always felt like something was with me, standing out there with me. (1:33:43)

And I absolutely could not see anything. I couldn't hear anything. And I was just, I went from great expectations to just being depressed. You know, what, what, what's out here, what, I did nothing, you know. So I run in and woke Ted up about this, thinking he'd have a big response. And I woke Ted up and he turned, he rolled over in the other bunk there and he looked at me and he, he said, I told him what had occurred. And he looked at me and he said, you remember me talking about that, Tom? (1:34:14)

And I said, yeah. And he said, well, welcome to Marley, Tom. He went back to bed. So... That's pretty cool. The, from what you described with the incident in Vietnam, some of the negative effects that people have experienced there at Marley Woods. Now there, there is two sides of the argument as far as the phenomenon in general, as a whole. Some people believe that is absolutely benevolent. (1:34:59)

They're here to help us, guide us, nurture us. And they're just here for, for good alone. Other people feel like they are mostly indifferent to us, but could potentially cause great harm and could even be considered a threat. If you're looking at it from the Department of Defense perspective, it is absolutely a threat. Where do you fall in those two, within those two areas of, of understanding? Well, I can absolutely tell you, and now I'm going to base this on a lot smarter people than I, that I've been associated with, that I absolutely do not believe it's benevolent. (1:35:58)

And why I say that is that there is a case study. Now I'm going to go a little bit off Marley here, if that's okay with you. Yes, absolutely. We're talking in general. Alan Hynek had formed the opinion that after the dimensional aspect was resolved, and most people don't know that. I mean, it virtually in the people that dealt with this back then, they absolutely knew it was dimensional, not interplanetary, which steps on a lot of toes, I know. (1:36:27)

But they were made aware of, and there's Von Braun, the rocket scientist, I know you probably had heard of. He had a, his protege was named Dr. Carol Rosen. I don't know if you've ever heard of her. She's still around. She's very much a good speaker, and you might look her up. And I met her, and she's just an invaluable amount of information. But why I go there and say this about Von Braun and Alan, and I can go another place, which is really going to blow your mind. (1:37:04)

I will do that after this tie-in. But Alan and Von Braun preached one thing, and led Ted, got Ted to believe in this, and showed the, now the source, I don't exactly know where it come from, and where they got this from. (1:37:17)

But they both all felt that at some point, and I don't ever look for disclosure to happen from our government, because they've been a part of it for so long, and they're never going to, it touches base with so many different elements that they cannot, disclosure will never come on their terms. But what this entails is there's going to be a false flag, what Alan called it, and Von Braun, and Dr. Carol Rosen, she still does lectures on this subject. (1:37:56)

They all predicted at some point there was going to be a disclosure brought upon by the entity, by the phenomena, and they were going to come forth, and they were going to be benign, they were going to be here, and benefit mankind, and it will be when mankind is at its sinks to its lowest, or there's a tremendous, which I hope it's not what we're experiencing now, but at some point they'll come, and with their technologies they will heal, they'll increase everything from food production to renewable energy, they'll have, they'll share things, and the world will worship them. (1:38:37)

And all I can say is it's not benign, and their motivation is not good. And there's, I'll draw one similarity, and this again with a time set, I don't know, you're probably aware of the show Twilight Zone. Yes. I don't know. Did you ever see the episode called To Serve Mankind? Yeah, right. (1:39:08)

Okay, now I'm going to give you a little insight on that again, this will blow your mind, and I cannot document this, but you know Rod Serling produced the Twilight Zone, and you know he was very much a UFO, in UFOlogy, and he produced some really outstanding documentaries, Rod Serling did. (1:39:28)

It has begun, and I think was the name of one, and some other outstanding, you might look those up, they're really great, but he had got to know, actually, I was told, from a good source, Alan Hynek, and actually there again, the plot for To Serve Mankind was loosely based on information that Alan Hynek had given him on that, so that's a little backstory. (1:39:50)

Every time I watch that episode, I just can't, I can't imagine, you know, the backstory, what went on behind the scenes on that, but I don't have to tell you the end result of that episode, you know. Yeah, yeah. I'm not saying that's the motivation at all, so I mean... Are you familiar with the book Childhood's End? Yeah, a little bit. (1:40:24)

I think it's by Arthur C. Clark, I may be mistaken on the author. I think so. Yeah, his argument was pretty similar to what you're describing right now, in that the ETs, or the aliens, whatever you want to call them, are going to show up, they're going to make vast improvements throughout the world, and then when they reveal themselves, they look like demons, and that's where people freak out and they don't know what to think, you know. (1:41:01)

But they've already decided that these are our saviors, we have to, you know, we have to subjugate ourselves to them, and then it turns out that they're what we perceive as demons. Right. I don't know if that's where the story ends or not, and I don't know that they actually were demons, but they absolutely looked like what we would consider demons. (1:41:35)

Right. And I will, you know, it goes into so much, it's so much information, you know, that I've been exposed to, it just makes my head swim sometimes. And I always look back, and I like, I always think, you know, who the hell am I to try to download some of this stuff that I've picked, I've been fortunate to be with people now, you know. (1:41:51)

But on the other hand, I always think, you know, in March I'm supposed to have an operation, and it's nothing really big, it's not minor, but I always think that, you know, if something happens to me, I'm trying to download this stuff, and there are some other people that know some of this. But I don't want all this just to go away, and I would like to form it that at least, if not a warning, just if this does occur, and this starts going down, just to have people have an open mind, and just don't accept everything you see as being real, and for your benefit, you know. (1:42:33)

In respect to that, I kind of hesitate to say this, because it really tells people where my feelings are about humanity, but I feel like the majority of people are still asleep, and they would fall for anything. And that's the unfortunate... Well, and I don't feel that's getting better, I really don't. Yeah, no, I agree. (1:43:09)

Too many, and I hate to say this, young people, they're so preoccupied with technology, and technology can be a wonderful thing, a great thing, but when you let it take over your life to the point, you know, you don't know what's going on around you, it's not a good avenue, you know. And I've seen that. Let's rewind a little bit, and bring it back to a little more of a positive direction, because, yeah, this whole topic could get really dark, but I don't think that's where it needs to be, you know. (1:43:56)

I think there's still a lot of intrigue and mystery, and a lot of fascinating information that people can glean from looking into this topic. People like yourself that are bringing this knowledge to the forefront, what's the message that you would want new people that are just getting introduced to these topics, what would you want to tell them, and then people that have already been in the field for a while, and have come to some conclusions, what would you tell them, and how do those two people, those two types of people, differ? (1:44:35)

That's a lot, so take it one at a time, if you like. You know, basically the one thing that I just, I can't, I have an anger management problem with, is just do not, and this comes from my training with MUFON and interviewing witnesses, do not ever ridicule people, no matter how strange it sounds, no matter what they've said, they've experienced, what they've seen, no matter how hard it is for you to accept, just, you know, at best, put it in your gray basket, as Stanton Freeman used to always say so often in TED, but never ridicule anybody for what they've said they've experienced or seen. (1:45:23)

And believe me, we've had, we've dealt with people that, we've had to, over the years, put a lot in the gray basket, but more than, more than not, we've come, we've seen what they've said, we see commonalities, maybe years later, that we pull it out of the gray basket and say, well, maybe that wasn't so crazy after all, you know, so that's the biggest pet peeve I have, is never ridicule anybody, you know, that claim. And when you work with people after a while, you can pretty much determine if they're making this up, or if it's, you know, they're looking, seeking publicity, which, which I can tell you at Marley was never publicity, because TED had over 380 witnesses and never reported it to anybody but their family. (1:46:18)

So what's, what's the point of this, you know? So, and I will say that ridicule with eyewitness testimony, I've seen people's lives in a small community ruined with ridicule, you know, people lose their livelihoods and businesses and things like that from ridicule and, but that's one of the biggest areas that I really have a sore subject with, you know, and other than that, it's just, when you're out there and you're dealing with something, always try to deal, as TED taught us, with the science of it, try to stick with, with documentation and the science and try to bring back, you know, what, what you, whatever you can collect, and deal with that, you know, and keep your eyes open and your ears open, you know, and, and no fact is too small. And TED always treated everything like CSI, like a crime scene. (1:47:19)

There was nothing, no object too small, no evidence, you know, anything you've seen could come into play. And so often we pick up facts that didn't make sense, or anything at the time, and then later, a year later, they directly relate into another case. (1:47:39)

So that would be another aspect, I would say, you know. Those are great points. And it reminded me that, so for people that are just getting into this, that are, because I feel like the awareness is growing exponentially right now. I think more and more people are starting to come to grips, even though there's still a majority of people that don't want to accept it. (1:48:13)

More and more people are starting to come to terms that there's, there's a reality beyond what we can understand. A lot of those people are starting to do some research and to look at different aspects of the phenomenon. Is there, is there anything that you would recommend that those people, but can, besides what you've already said, which is, I 100% agree with you, the ridicule factor needs to go, and it needs to stop, and never be brought back into this topic at all. (1:48:47)

But what kind of steps should people take to educate themselves and start talking about this in a more serious manner? Well, I, I just want to interject something here that was taught to me a long time ago by a photo analyst that was an Air Force Captain, Jim Cross, and now this is going to affect a lot of people. (1:49:15)

They're not going to want to hear this, and I know a lot of professionals aren't going to want to hear this, but the man was the state of the art in photography back then, and today he analyzed a lot of Air Force footage. He was actually a fighter pilot one time, and Jim taught me, he worked with me with negatives, and he taught me the best type of, which young people don't know what negatives are, but the best type of negative is a slide film, and people, young people go, what's a slide? But the information you can gain off a photographic image on a, negative from slide film, you can document it as, I mean, you can go places with that negative and prove hard science. (1:50:00)

You can bring things out in that negative that there's no way to fake it, and Jim taught me a long time ago, and digital photography was just starting back then when I was working with him, but Jim taught me, and I was crazy about that. I thought, man, digital photography, that's going to be wonderful. You don't have to lug high-speed film around, you know, you just, your storage is going to be, I mean, it just, and, but Jim, he said, well, I'll tell you this, Tom, he said, when you get into the realm, and you will, and you deal with digital photography, he said, photographs are going to mean absolutely nothing. (1:50:38)

And, you know, to this day, I always remember those words, and what I'm going to say in, with deep fake going on, you know, I'm sure you're aware of that with video, and we're going to reach a point where, and especially it's hard with, with ufology, that people are going to want to see images, and they're going to see images, but you're not going to be able to believe any image or photograph you see. (1:51:04)

We're at that point really now. Our video, for that matter. Our video, right. I mean, they've got it so perfected in video almost, that I've seen some pieces of film where, you know, and even especially in photography, the software that's even with the right software to take something apart to prove it's not real, is getting almost in the realm of, even the intelligence agencies will tell you, they really are past the point where they can determine if a photograph is real or not, even with their resources. (1:51:43)

So that always, that's one issue that I would like to, you know, you see video footage, or I know so many people get up, get, you know, in an uproar and get excited about this piece of video or photograph, and I've got to go back to my training, and you know, it's nice, and people will ask me, what do you think of this? What do you think of this picture, this video? And I'll say, you know, as far as I'm concerned, it's a nice piece of film or photograph. (1:52:17)

I just can't accept it, you know. And boy, that brings up hostilities with people, you know. They don't want to go there. And I know why. Which is unfortunate for the individuals that actually see someone out with a digital camera or video and capture the the most astounding, breathtaking footage you'd ever see, and they bring it and put it, and they air it on the internet. Well, two-thirds of everybody sees it on the internet. (1:52:39)

Oh, that's, oh, that's Photoshop. I know how that's, you know, that's a joke. That looks ridiculous. And well, you know, maybe they're looking at authentic film there, and images, and, but to differentiate between the two is almost past the realm of capability. So that's really one thing that's changed in ufology since I started, you know, in it. Because at least we had negatives, and if you had people that knew what they were doing, you could authenticate it, that it was real. (1:53:18)

So what I hear you saying, just to put it into a little nutshell, is look at this topic with an open mind. Right. But also look at it with a critical, very critical mindset. Right. And, and don't be duped. Don't be, allow yourself to be misled because of your desire to believe. Right. Got it. Okay, that's smart. Unless you were there, you know, the eyewitness and you were there. (1:53:49)

And, you know, you really just can't go beyond the point that it's a nice, it's a nice video and a nice photo. And, and I know where that upsets a lot of people, especially in ufology, you know, but it's, that's, that's the science of it. (1:54:02)

The, the podcast, Deadhand Radio is about the Cold War UFOs and the paranormal. When I started it out, it was originally just covering aspects of the Cold War. And I quickly found out how closely related to the Cold War, the UFO phenomenon is. I mean, it's just insane. So I dove into that head first, and it's been an interesting journey. One of the things that I try to do on every episode that I'm, I'm absolutely committed to talking about on every UFO episode that I do, is that with, with, with Congress now starting to talk about the UFO topic, and the military openly talking about the, the UFO topic, that people can also get involved and help push this topic forward so that it becomes more widely recognized, widely accepted. (1:55:24)

And the way they do that is to start talking about it to other people, but also to write into your congressmen and women and write into your representatives and tell them how important this topic is, and that it needs to be looked at seriously and studied by the scientific community. Do you agree with that? Yeah, I, yes, I really do. (1:55:53)

I will tell you that in probably the year 2000, Bruce Whiteman and Mu Fan, and I was part of that, they spent some time at the Capitol in Missouri, we had an initiative, a petition, and we had, didn't quite have enough signatures, which they play games with you at times to get enough signatures. When you think you've had enough, they'll change a date or you don't have enough. (1:56:17)

So, but we, we approached that, we tried that once, we didn't, didn't have success with that, not to say it can't be done. But I will, there's people in the field, Stephen, Stephen Greer, I believe, I don't know if you've ever heard of him, and Steve Bassett, which I know him personally, he was a lobbyist before he became a ufologist in Washington, D.C. And, you know, they're, they're big in, in having this, they're going down that avenue, you know, they're trying to, and with some success, some little success, and, and, you know, that goes back with Alan, I just feel kind of the best opportunity we had for that was back with Alan Hynek and Ted, Jacques Vallee, several others, scientists, they had a consult before the UN, in the United Nations, they spoke before, and they had, you know, they were really making headways with that, until the powers that be, and I will tell you, I've worked with some people that I will tell you behind the scenes, about 50% of the people in intelligence would like this to be out, and the other half will, are dedicated that this will never be, and can't be released. (1:57:48)

So you're up against that. I'd like to say with, with new people in the field, that's changed. But from what I hear, that's still pretty much the rules of the game. So, you know, but I'd say never give up. But that, that's basically what I'd say on that, you know. (1:58:09)

Well, the more people that are aware of this topic, and the more people talking about it, and the more pressure that the masses can put on the government for, to bring this information to the public, I think we can slowly make progress in the right direction. I don't know that, like you said, disclosure may never happen. But that's not, that's not the end game. (1:58:31)

The end game is to just get answers. And, you know, if we get a little bit more information each year, then we're making progress. And that's, that's what I'm committed to. (1:58:43)

You know, I will say that I do believe the, the phenomenon is increasing. I do believe, as some have said, that the, the dimensional boundaries are weakening for whatever reason. More of this stuff is coming through, and there again, a lot of it isn't good. That's not to say that some of it isn't good, but it just, I, and Ted always thought that in, in the future, that this stuff was going to make itself known at the precise time and point, and people weren't going to be able to deny, you know, when it was on their call, it's, it'll, it will be known, you know, so, so, and I, I don't know if we're that far from it, actually, I really don't. But then again, maybe not, you know, people were thinking this back, there were teams of people that thought in the 60s, that this would be in the 70s, and then the 80s and the 90s. And here we are, and I can't believe, you know, 2021. And, but there are a lot more coming out from the government. (1:59:57)

And there, I will tell you behind the scenes, their hands are being forced for a lot of this to come out. And so you're seeing things now we would have dreamt for back in the back in the day, we're seeing video footage and acknowledgements from the government themselves, you know, and where they never would have gone before, you know, so there is that. (2:00:21)

Well, okay. So when you say behind the scenes, are you telling me to, to not make that public? Or is that something that you that's knowledge you have, but it's okay for you to say publicly, you know that? No, it's okay for me publicly to say believe me, there's a lot of things I've said that there's people that there are people that don't want me to go there. (2:00:48)

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But, and there's people that that were associated with Ted, and that's been in this all along, believe me, if you're in this, if you get in this field, and you get anybody credible or do any serious research, it'll be known, I will say that, you know, and, but you got to make the decision. And, and I really don't. At this point, I really don't give a damn. (2:01:11)

So, but, and I'm not saying that there's, you know, anything bad. There are bad things happen to good people. Sometimes I will say that in the field in the early days, especially, but, but there's so much of this that's I, and they know it too, that it's gonna, I think, very in the near future, start making itself known that it's kind of pointless to try to stop people. (2:01:39)

And some of this, I mean, it's like, like a wicker basket trying to keep water out, you know, from coming out. It's just, it's going to be there. And it's, and the phenomena is changing and morphing. That's something that Ted always taught us, you know, that it's so different from when he started in it. (2:02:04)

And it's so different than when I started in it, even, you know, it's, so I would really like to get into hearing your theories and get into speculation. (2:02:10)

We'll save that for another time, because I've, we've been talking for two hours, and I really want to respect your time. And I want to give, I want to give you an opportunity to let people know if they're okay. So you mentioned that you're bringing forward some of the work that you and Ted worked on. And when is that coming out? And how can people find it? (2:02:39)

I'll tell you what, we're, we're working on a platform that over the last, no, year and a half, I've had so many people make offers. And unfortunately, some of them, they wanted to do a couple episodes, a show here and there, you know, and, and because of the virus, they were demanding, they wanted to do it right now. And I told them it wasn't possible. (2:03:16)

And so the best platform we're working on, I'm going trying to go back through Adam Johnson, which was a team member. And you may be aware or familiar with the name Douglas Trumbull, that he was the one that was in Close Encounters of the Third Kind and 2001 Space Odyssey. He did all the special effects in that those movies. (2:03:41)

And we, and Brainstorm was another movie that he did, worked on. He has a production company too. And at this point in time, rather than because so many of the TV, I will say Skinwalkers getting in. It's a lot of Hollywood at times, but they actually get into some of the science and they try to do it the right way, you know, I feel. (2:04:07)

But it's one of the few shows that they all want to get in and do the Hollywood gig, you know, and, and shoot some stuff and make it happen and leave, you know, and not do the science aspect of it. That's why Ted refused a couple people. But Douglas Trumbull, which was involved with, you know, Close Encounters, you're familiar with that movie. (2:04:37)

He always felt that Marley Woods, not in itself, but as a site, he wanted to make the sequel to Close Encounters as how the phenomena has morphed into the days of Close Encounters to what it is now. And he wanted to, we would like to take this and give all the tie-ins and as beautifully as they did in that movie. (2:05:02)

He wanted to, we'd like to make a Marley Woods type sequel to go through a movie type platform to do the story of Ted and Marley Woods at this point. Because we feel like you could do it more justice and trying to get in and shoot some lights in the sky and, you know, and some shenanigans with some guys on the ground. (2:05:25)

And then, you know, that's episode one. But there are a few people we're dealing with that want to do a true documentary. And I mean, I've been working with in a year and a half, probably three, four people that we're still talking about doing something like to get out there. (2:05:43)

But it all depends, too, on the virus, you know, and what transgresses in the economy and everything. So, and I, sad to say, I hate to even go there, but the political spectrum has entered into this, too. I can't tell you. So, it's, that's another avenue. I actually, I really kind of detest politics at times. (2:06:17)

And, but, so anyway, that's what we're working on. And we'd like to see a feature-length sequel on a phenomenon that's exhibited in Marley Woods and a type of Skinwalker sites, you know, and, and go into that, that realm. So, so that's where we're at right now. Okay. So that's just in the infancy of, of production, not even production, but in, in concept right now, it sounds like. (2:06:42)

Yeah. Yeah. I will say, if it wouldn't have been for this virus, I would venture to say we probably had with one outfit, we'd probably had three, four episodes shot right now. It sounds like, from what you've explained to me, described in our conversation, it definitely warrants serious, serious investigation, documentation, and exposure to the public. (2:07:16)

Oh, the only thing with that is once you do that, then it turns that place into a circus. What are your feelings on that? That is, that is such a source of, you know, we've dealt with people in the media that have been out there, very few people that we trust. Ted, we explicitly trust there are few individuals that have done things with Ted before. (2:07:37)

And he's shot some films on the History Channel with these people that we trust. And, but then the only beautiful part about this is if we go with Adam Johnson, which has his own production company now, we can explain, you know, Adam's one of us and I know we can trust his people, whoever he'd bring on there, so we'd have that covered, you know. (2:08:06)

But, you know, will we keep this location secret and out of the realm of public knowledge? We absolutely will. And not because we want to or think we're building suspicion in this, you know, or intrigue. It's due, we owe it to the people involved in their property. And I don't have to tell you, like you just mentioned, if we would bring this out, like, unfortunately, like Skinwalker, you don't see behind the scenes that they've got gated security there around the clock. (2:08:37)

And you don't see behind the scenes the amount of people that they deal with at that ranch, because it's known, you know. Believe me, there's a lot of that. So we just, to our best ability, we don't betray these people. And we got to keep it under wraps. And there has been a few people that think they have found, like I said, Marley, and they have not. (2:09:05)

And there has been a few people that have been near Marley. And they've talked to local people around. And most of the locals are keyed in enough that they won't betray the place. But if a few, if they think that they have found Marley, they're at the wrong location. And they're there a couple days or a week. And, oh, it's all a bunch of BS, you know, that there's nothing here. (2:09:30)

Or they see somebody's dusk to dawn light. And they say, well, that's what it is at Marley, you know. So we've had that. (2:09:36)

We've had that. Everybody thinks they have the answer. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that's one thing that really, the older I get, the more, less patience I have. But in the last time we were on the lecture circuit with Ted going around, you know, we'd get so many young people come up that had just gotten into subject. (2:10:01)

And they'd start criticizing Ted's work, you know, and telling them what it is and arguing with Ted. And Ted would just walk away. And that's why he actually got off the lecture circuit. He just couldn't. He didn't have the patience for it anymore for the ridicule. And he didn't need to be there. You know, that's not productive. And that doesn't accomplish anything. Well, it is awesome that you're continuing his work and continuing to spread the message and turning it into your own work. (2:10:32)

You know, it's a good thing that you are continuing the legacy and through that building your own legacy. Well, I appreciate that. And it has been a big part of my life, believe me. I'm retired now. But even in my working career, I was, I will tell you, it was a struggle. (2:10:54)

I was, I worked for an outfit, which is gone now. So I can, I worked for Challenger offshore powerboats. I was their electrical engineer, I did the layout work and implemented the first Coal Hersey electrical data bus system in it. And instead of fuses or breakers, it was electronic program circuits. But anyway, at the height of my work at Challenger, you know, my one longest day, I will tell you, is I was in the morning, I worked on a project for them on some boats they sold. (2:11:33)

I was in Bermuda at seven o'clock in the morning. And at midnight, I was in the middle of a field out in Marley Woods in Missouri. So that tells you what I was working, trying to balance my life with Marley. That is dedication to, what do you call that? I don't know, just dedication, I guess. Out of necessity, I might add, but... Yeah, well, everybody has to earn a living somehow. (2:12:05)

And then you do what you have to to earn a living. And then you do what you want to, to actually enjoy life. But I think that's a great place for us to end this interview and to be continued again, because there's a lot more that we can still talk about. Oh, Moonshaft. Yeah, absolutely. You have, if this intrigues you, and it's reality, and it should, I will tell you that Moonshaft is very real. (2:12:43)

And when you get that true story that involves history, World War II, it goes into the first uranium ore mine that Madame Curie bought from the family that involved in Moonshaft. It's, you won't believe the story of an artifact that was found in Slovakia. Okay, yeah, that is a great teaser. And we are absolutely going to have a follow up to talk about all of that stuff. (2:13:11)

Because whenever you're talking about, like I said, my whole area of interest is the Cold War. That's what is my main focus. And we're talking about nuclear materials. We're talking about the early days of the development of the use of atomic materials. (2:13:31)

I mean, yeah, you got you got my attention, sir. Now, but okay, in the meantime, how can people get a hold of you? Just let people know, you know, best way to reach out to you. Really, the best way now is if I work on, unfortunately, the Facebook platform, you can message me on Facebook. My face page is virtually our website. (2:14:00)

And the Marley Woods, Ted Phyllis Marley Woods Research Center group page, you can become a member on that and all the latest pictures, data is on that page. And you can message me through that or my own personal page. And it's virtually all Ted Phillips, Marley Woods and data and what's going on there. Okay. Is it okay with you if I put links in the show notes for people to reach out to you directly? (2:14:27)

That'd be great. That'd be great. I'll do that. I'll send you our little three minute movie. Did I send that to you? No, I haven't seen that. Three minute that's on YouTube. In three minutes, that'll visually tell you and it's set to music. All the participants in Marley, a lot of the key photographs, Ted and the team. And it's really, I think three minutes will mean a lot to you if you watch that. It's pretty interesting. (2:14:56)

I'll check that out. If you send that to me, you can send it to me through the Facebook or I will send you an email because you gave me your email address. I'll send you an email so you'll have my email and then we can communicate via email also. Anyway, that's a great way for us to end this conversation and keep it open for another time. (2:15:21)

But thank you for coming on and sharing your insights and your information with us. Is there anything else that you'd like to say before we close it out? No, that pretty much covers it all. All I'd say is keep your eyes and ears open and look towards the sky. You won't see, experience anything if you got your nose in your cell phone. Yeah, absolutely. (2:15:53)

All right, Tom. Well, thanks again. I appreciate you taking the time to do this and I look forward to talking to you again. Okay. It's been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure. All right. I'll talk to you soon. Take care. Okay. Take care. (2:16:04)

(2025-05-24)

前置き​

音声対話(by AI)​

情報源​

関連の過去記事​

AI 整理​

ブリーフィング文書：マリウッド現象のレビュー

概要:​

主要な調査者:​

マリウッド現象の主要テーマとアイデア:​

物理的な痕跡とUFOの重量:​

次元的／ハイパーディメンション的な性質:​

マリウッドのハイストレンジネス:​

物理的な影響とリスク:​

現象の性質に関する議論:​

調査方法と課題:​

現象の増加と将来:​

ベトナムの事例:​

その他の異常:​

結論:​

タイムライン：マリウッド現象とテッド・フィリップスの調査

登場人物

テッド・フィリップス (Ted Phillips):アレン・ハイネック博士の著名な弟子であり、UFOの物理的な痕跡事例に関する世界的な専門家。​

トム (Tom):語り手であり、テッド・フィリップスのチームの主要メンバー。​

アレン・ハイネック博士 (Dr. J. Allen Hynek):著名なUFO研究者であり、テッド・フィリップスの師。​

ジャック・ヴァレ博士 (Dr. Jacques Vallee):著名なUFO研究者、コンピュータ科学者、ベンチャーキャピタリスト。​

レイ・スタンフォード (Ray Stanford):自己発明家、エンジニア、古生物学者。​

ブルース・ウィットマン (Bruce Witteman):ミズーリ州MUFONの元州ディレクター。​

デビー・ジーゲルマイヤー (Debbie Ziegelmeier):ミズーリ州MUFONの現在の州ディレクター。​

アダム・ジョンソン (Adam Johnson):セントルイスに自身の制作会社を持つドキュメンタリー制作者。​

ロドニー・ディラード (Rodney Dillard):テッド・フィリップスのマリウッド調査チームのメンバー。​

ウォルト・アンドラス (Walt Andrus):MUFONの創設者の一人。​

ジョン・シュースラー (John Schuessler):MUFONの創設者の一人であり、トム氏の友人。​

ヴェルナー・フォン・ブラウン博士 (Dr. Wernher von Braun):有名なロケット科学者。​

キャロル・ローゼン博士 (Dr. Carol Rosen):ヴェルナー・フォン・ブラウン博士の弟子。​

ロッド・セーリング (Rod Serling):テレビ番組「トワイライト・ゾーン」の制作者。​

ジム (Jim):元空軍パイロットで、写真分析の専門家。​

ロバート・ビゲロー (Robert Bigelow):アメリカのビジネスマンで、未確認航空現象の研究に資金提供している人物。​

スタントン・フリードマン (Stanton Friedman):有名なUFO研究者。​

クリス・ブレッドソー (Chris Bledsoe) とその家族 (the Bledsoe family):UFO/UAP現象に関連する別のケースの体験者として言及されているが、マリウッドの調査チームとの直接的な関わりは不明。​

スティーブン・グリア (Steven Greer):ディスクロージャー運動を推進する人物として言及されている。​

スティーブ・バセット (Steve Bassett):ワシントンD.C.でUFOロビー活動を行っている人物。トム氏の個人的な知人。​

マダム・キュリー (Madame Curie):物理学者、化学者。​

ジョン・グリーンウォルド (John Greenewald):FOIA（情報公開法）に基づく文書公開活動を行う「ザ・ブラック・ヴォールト (The Black Vault)」の運営者。​

マリウッドの土地所有者 (The ranchers / land and property owners):マリウッド地域に住み、現象を長年経験している人々。​

マリウッドの地元住民 (Local people around Marley):マリウッド周辺に住む人々。​

ベトナムの部族 (Tribe in Vietnam):ベトナム戦争中に敵戦線後方の山岳地帯に住んでいた石器時代の生活を送る部族。​