「究極の岩盤」到達体験と「底が抜ける」体験の本質

2025年4月30日 · 約186分

記事の経緯 (2025-04-30)

昨日の記事、

「いま、私は実在している」という自明かつ絶対的な実感…この謎を解く

の中で「究極の岩盤」を話題にした。

ほぼ10年前の Bentinho Massaro の長時間インタビュー動画を取り上げた過去記事で、その「究極の岩盤」を話題にしていたことを思い出したので、現段階の認識を末尾に反映させておく。

履歴

(2025-04-30) 書式変換＋文字起こし
(2018-08-03) 追加。 Bentinho Massaro : 長時間インタビューでの興味深い発言　（途中：その2）
(2016-04-14）作成

はじめに (2016-04-14 bgin）

先日の過去記事、

Bentinho Massaro : 「時間は実在しない」と語る精神世界の講談師　（2016-04-12）

で Bentinho Massaro の講演を紹介した。その講演での発言や態度を見たかぎりでは、かなり誠実な人物に思えた。ただ、彼があまりに単純で素朴かつ楽観的過ぎるのが気になった。さらに、彼はまだ本格的な挫折を体験しておらず、人間や世界が抱える正視しがたい闇を見ていない（or 軽視している）…ような気がした。

とはいえ、彼はある種の神秘的直覚（悟り）を体験しているようにも感じられた。そこでつい最近（Feb 20, 2016）up された 3時間に及ぶ彼の長時間インタビュー（質疑応答を含む）の動画を視てみた。

彼はこのインタビューの中で 18～19歳の頃に神秘的直覚（悟り）を得たと証言している（なお、この録画の時点（2015年）で彼は 27歳だと語っている（2:03:20））。

興味深いのは、その体験の直後、数ヶ月の間は酷く落ち込み、全てが無意味になった、全てがバラバラになった…と語っている事。この証言を聞いた時、彼のその体験は嘘ではなく事実だろうと確信できた。（なお、彼がある種の悟りを得ていることは、彼の様々な精神世界的な教えが正しいことを何も保証しない…というごく当たり前の事に留意）

まだ途中までしか見ていないが、とても興味深い発言がなされているので、ごく一部をざっと紹介する。UFO や反重力装置に関する驚くような発言も含まれる。

抜粋

……途中……
……途中……
……途中……

インタビュー動画(3:03:14)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxy9QdfFLo4

動画概要欄

59,300 views Feb 21, 2016 #Enlightenment #Awakening #Consciousness

展開

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ABOUT BENTINHO MASSARO

Bentinho has dedicated his life to humanity’s awakening. Everything he does—whether or not it’s understood at face value—springs from that intention. His taboo-breaking approach and non-dogmatic style are integral to his teaching, helping to expose and uproot the unexamined opinions and deeply-held beliefs that limit people's ability to think freely, honorably and grow at a faster pace.

Bentinho’s teachings guide seekers into the same recognition of Source and devotion to service that he embodies. In addition to teaching Self-Realization with unprecedented clarity and efficiency, he also delves into the more confronting work of becoming honorable: purifying your character from selfish, limiting intention and sourcing your life directly from Oneness.

(2016-04-14 end)

はじめに(2018-08-03 begin)

上の記事の注目箇所の発言時刻を追記。ついでにコメントを追加。

注目箇所

17:00 から。奇妙に聞こえるだろうが、神秘的直覚（悟り）を得た直後から、酷く落ち込んだ。すべてが無意味になった。

興味深いのは、その体験の直後、数ヶ月の間は酷く落ち込み、全てが無意味になった、全てがバラバラになった…と語っている事。この証言を聞いた時、彼のその体験は嘘ではなく事実だろうと確信できた。（なお、彼がある種の悟りを得ていることは、彼の様々な精神世界的な教えが正しいことを何も保証しない…というごく当たり前の事に留意）

以下、全て無根拠な憶測。

悟ったら「ガツンとした盤石な岩盤」（＝絶対的な究極の真理、全てを支える終局の根拠）の上に足がつくようになり、一切の疑念や迷いが消えるだろう…このように想像している人が少なくない。

だが、たぶんそれは真逆。悟ったら、「ガツンとした盤石な岩盤」（＝究極の真理）の上に立つのではなく、逆に足元の底が抜ける。「究極の真理」という妄想的束縛から解き放たれるゆえに疑念や迷いが消える。疑念や迷いは「究極の真理」という妄想が生み出したものだから。

Bentinho Massaro が「その体験の直後、数ヶ月の間は酷く落ち込み、全てが無意味になった、全てがバラバラになった…と語っている」のは、足元の底が抜けた直後の率直な実感だろう。

(2018-08-03 end)

前置き (2025-04-30 begin)

文脈が取れるよう前後を含めて、該当部分の文字起こし＋和訳を追加しておく。

和訳に 1920年とあるのは、 19,20歳ごろの意味。

2018年の時点では私はまだ、「悟り」という精神世界/宗教業界にはびこる神話（オハナシ）の正体に気づかず、評価も不明確でブレていた。当時、「悟り」に対して深い疑念の眼で見ていた筈だが、まだ正体を見抜けてはいなかった。

だから「ガツンとした盤石な岩盤」だの「足元の底が抜ける」だのと神話（オハナシ）の世界観から一歩も出ること無く、戯けた話をしていた。

今(2025-04-30)は悟りや解脱の類が全てヨタ話だと理解できている。古来から、悟り/解脱と名付けられていた体験は綿々と生じ続けていたが、その正体は

意識障害によって正常な日常的意識状態から逸脱した意識が、
無自覚に自ら作り上げた（宗教/精神世界という伝統の轍に沿った）妄想世界にドップリとはまり込んだ体験をし、
それが悟りと呼ばれてきた

というだけのこと。禅の公案は、この意識障害を効果的に引き起こすためのツールとなっている。だから魔境体験も起きるし、少なからぬ頻度で発狂者や精神障害患者も生じてきた。

最後に、過去記事で何度も述べたが、今一度、明確にしておく。

禅は無価値かつ有害。

禅以外にも同類は無数にあるが、禅がとりわけ悪質。禅が説くヨタ話に皆、まんまと騙さている。日蓮は禅を天魔と批判したが、そんな大層なものではない。禅の騙しの手口は巧妙だが、それでも非常に人間臭い。言い換えると禅の騙しの手口は、泥臭い俗人レベルであって洗練からは程遠い。この泥臭さがまた、真実だと錯覚させる効能をもっている。

該当箇所の文字起こし＋和訳 : FasterWhisper AI(large-v2 model) + DeepL(2024-07 model)

。17歳か18歳だったと思うけど、半年間リシケシに住んで、いろんな先生を訪ねたり、いろんなトレーニングを受けたり、ヨガの瞑想をしたりした。当時はオショーをたくさん読んだよ。 (0:12:42)

20冊から25冊くらいは読んだと思う。当時の僕の経験では、それをどう表現していたかはわからないけど、今なら単純に「気づき」とか「純粋な気づき」と呼ぶだろうね。 (0:12:58)

つまり、意識の非二元状態の経験だ。唯一の問題は、これには障害があると信じていたことだ。訓練して、瞑想して、心を静めなければならないと信じていた。いつもそう言われてきた。でも、それさえも響かなかった。それさえも、本題に入っていないように感じた。これは私の人生のテーマでもある。どうすればもっと早くできるのか？ (0:13:21)

どうすれば今これができるのか？どうすればもっと効率的にできるか？だから、このことに関しても、何かがおかしいという思いが強かった。だから心を静めて、経験をして、また心が戻ってくる。そんな感じだった。だからあるとき、考えるのに夢中になっているときでも、雑念にとらわれているときでも、何も考えずに認識していたことが、考えているときにもまだそこにあることに気づき始めたんだ。 (0:13:49)

そしてそれは、私にとって本当に大きな出来事だった。ああ、よかった。だって今はどこにも行けないんだから。基本的に悟りから抜け出せないんだ。 (0:13:54)

それは一瞬でしたか？それとも一連のことですか？徐々に明確になっていった感じですか？一瞬でした。つまり、それを深めて、本当に明確にしていくことは、まだ続いている。確かに一生です。無限に続く。でも、とてもはっきりと覚えているのは、経験ではなく、それに対するアプローチの仕方が変わったということだ。その真理を理解する上での変化だったんだ。 (0:14:25)

だから、とても簡単に、とてもシンプルに、その瞬間、垣間見た瞬間に気づいたことが、いつもここにあることに気づいたんだ。そして、それがあちこちで見られるようになった。その瞬間があったとき、そのときは重要だと感じましたか？これこそがすべてだという感じでしたか？それとも、その瞬間が起きてから、だんだんと見ているうちに、その体験の重要性に気づき始めたという感じですか？ (0:14:45)

私にとってはかなり重要なことだった。でも、個人的にこの旅にとても没頭していたからね。15歳から19歳くらいまで、毎日毎日、強烈に求めていたんだ。そのためにインドにも行ったし、そこに住んだりもした。だから私にとっては、それはとても個人的なことでもあった。 (0:15:05)

それに、どの先生のところに行っても、すべてのスワミやグルや、読んだ本でさえも、ストレスの多い関係でした。だからこれは私にとって完全な解放であり、これらのクラスでいつも感じていたことが自分にとって真実であることの確認でした。もっと速い方法がある、それはすでにここにある、とても直接的で、達成するのは難しくない。 (0:15:23)

だから、その瞬間にすべてが確認できたんだ。だから個人的には、個人的な観点から言うと、緊張が解けたのはとても大きかった。先生と生徒の関係も、今は自分が自分の教祖になったような気分です。自分が実現しようとしていたことが実現したんだ。そして、それは私の気づきのほんの一部であることがわかったのですが、当時は重要なことだと感じました。 (0:15:45)

ええ、その時言いたかったのは、これだと感じましたか？これこそ私が求めていたものすべてだと？それとも、これはその一部なのか？というのも、あなたがおっしゃるように、その後に、そしてこれはしばしば、大きな経験をした人々に当てはまることなのですが、その後には、しばしば進行中の全体的な統合プロセスがあるのです。 (0:16:05)

統合プロセスは進行中でしたし、それはおそらく進行中だろうと思いました。しかし、そこにはある種の恒久的な変化があった。なぜなら、それはいつもすでにここにあるもので、決して見ることができなかったからです。 (0:16:29)

少しの期間なら自分をだますことができたかもしれないけれど、それはとても明確なもので、何があっても戻ることができる明確なものだった。すべての経験が気づきを確認するように、すべてが気づきの確認になったからだ。もう何が起ころうと関係ない。それはあなたの人生に何をもたらしましたか？ (0:16:43)

あなたは15歳のときから、源流を見つけるように、完全にコミットし、投資してきたと言いましたね。そして、あなたはその経験をしました。そのときから、あなたの人生に何が起こったのですか？皮肉なことに、すごく落ち込んだんだ。そうなんですか？なんで笑ってたんだろう。いや、笑っていいんだ。 (0:17:08)

笑える。面白いから笑うんだ。まあ、そうなんだけどね。あなたが期待するようなことは起きないでしょう？悟りを開いたと思ったら、激しく落ち込んだりね。ああ、僕はすごく落ち込んで、すごく不安になって、すごく......。完全に行き詰まった感じだった。この時、リシケシから引っ越してきて、すべてがバラバラになってしまったんだ。 (0:17:27)

いわば私の人間らしさを支えていたものすべてが。人間関係、環境、経済、人生の目標。そしてまた、このことの結果として、私はこのことに多くの意図と意味を与えてきたのに、今ではそれがすべて無意味になってしまった。一時期、すべてが無意味になってしまった。何もやる気が起きなかった。つまり、興味深いことなんだ。ある意味、私が経験したのと同じようなことかもしれない。 (0:18:00)

例えば、ゴールが億万長者になってビジネスを売ることだったとしよう。そして、彼らはその地点に到達し、その反対側で実際に落ち込んでいるんだ。なぜなら、彼らの人生はすべて、そこに到達したら......ということで定義されているようなものだからだ。引退してビーチで暮らすというのが夢だったんだけど、もちろん、問題を解決したり人を導いたりすることが一番自分を奮い立たせてくれることなのに、もうそれをやっていないんだ。 (0:18:20)

素晴らしい。そのような頂点に達するということですね。その通りです。それはとても魅力的なことです。そこに辿り着くと、ああ、今自分がやっていることと同じだ、と思えるんだ。そう、だから旅が重要なんだ。そうだね。でも、そのことに気づいて、旅が無限で果てしないものだと気づけば、もう大丈夫。そうだね。でもそれには時間がかかった。 (0:18:35)

それが最終的な結果だと信じている限りはね。そうだね。そして、最終的な結果が出た後に、他のすべてが止まってしまうとか、そういうことを信じている限り、私たちは常に葛藤を抱えることになる。だから、それがもう1つの洞察だったんだ。それは、終着点ではなかったということを認識することで、実はある意味、それは旅の中の1点に過ぎなかったんだ。 (0:18:56)

その時点、例えば覚醒してからの6ヶ月間、私はただ...自分の人格が完全に解体されていくような、自分が知っているものすべてが引き裂かれ、奪われていくような、そんな状態だったんだ。だから、その後6カ月から1年半くらいは、かなり落ち込んでいたよ。オランダに戻ってきて、両親と一緒に暮らすようになったんだけど、そのときから実感が湧いてきたんだ。 (0:19:25)

、自分が実現したかったことを実現し、すべての意図が吸い取られ、激しさが消え、すべての意味が消え、何にも意味が見いだせなくなり、何に対するモチベーションもなくなり、人生が崩壊していく。それが究極の憂鬱なんだろうね。ある意味、究極の鬱だ。実存的危機が鬱なんでしょ？どこに行けばいいのかわからない、何をすればいいのかわからない。 (0:19:49)

そうだね、セラピストに会いに行くようなうつ病じゃないよね？ある意味、大した洞察も与えてくれないような。その通り。だから、そこでいろいろなことに気づいたんだ。ある意味、そこで自分の教えを築き始めたんだ。そして今、統合が起こり、実践が起こり、いわば応用が起こっている。 (0:20:19)

そこで私は、どのように応用するか、どのようにあらゆる異なる状態から意識に戻るかなど、心理学的な細かいディテールを掘り下げていきました。そこで、この光に照らされた私の指導が始まったんだ。それが1920年頃だったと思う。 (0:20:39)

それで、実家の屋根裏部屋でYouTubeの小さなクリップを撮り始めて、少しずつ露出するようになり、いくつかのインタビューに呼ばれるようになりました。

展開

So around the age of, I think it was 17 or 18, I went to live in Rishikesh for six months and go visit all kinds of teachers there, do all kinds of trainings and yoga meditation, but also other kinds of teachings, more traditional satsang type of experiences, non-duality, awakening, direct awakening. I read a ton of Osho at the time. (0:12:42)

I read like 20, 25 books of it, I think, which was one of the most influential at that period in my life. And so I started getting glimpses of what I was actually looking for, which in my experience at the time was, I don't know how I described it at the time, but right now I would just simply call it awareness or pure awareness. (0:12:58)

So the experience of the non-dual state of consciousness. The only problem was that I believed there were obstacles to this. I believed that I had to train and meditate and quiet my mind. That's what I was told all the time. But even that didn't resonate. Even that felt like it's not cutting to the chase. This is a theme in my life. It's like, how can we do this faster? (0:13:21)

How can we do this now? How can we do this more efficiently? So I was very much like something is off even about this. So I would quiet my mind, I would have the experience, and then my mind would come back. Something like that. So at some point I started to notice that even when I'm busy thinking, even when I'm caught up in distraction, that which I recognized without thinking is also still there when I am thinking. (0:13:49)

And that really blew up for me. That was like, oh, nice. Because now you can't go anywhere. Like now you're stuck with enlightenment, basically. (0:13:54)

Was that a moment? Or was it like a series? Was it like a gradual kind of clarifying? It was pretty much a moment. I mean, the deepening of it and the really making it clear is still continuing. It's a lifetime, sure. It's infinite. But I remember very clearly having a shift of like, hey, more than anything it wasn't an experience, it was a shift in how I approached it. A shift in understanding the truth of it. (0:14:25)

So very easily, very simply, I just realized that which I realized in those moments, in those glimpses, is always here. And then I started seeing that all over the place. And when you had that moment, did it feel significant at the time? Was it like, this is the thing that this is all about? Or was it like it happened and then you gradually were looking, and you kind of started to realize the significance of the experience? (0:14:45)

It felt pretty significant to me. But also because I was personally so invested in this journey, right? Like from the age of 15 to the age of like 19 or something like that, I had been seeking intensely every single day. And I traveled to India for it, I lived there, etc. So for me it was a very personal thing as well. (0:15:05)

And also I had this like stressful relationship with any teacher I would go to, all the swamis and the gurus and even the books that I read. So this was for me total liberation of, this was confirmation of that what I always felt in all these classes was true for me. Like there is a faster way, it is already here, it is very direct, it isn't hard to achieve. (0:15:23)

So that all got confirmed in that moment. So personally, from a personal point of view, it was very significant release of tension for me. Both of all my teacher-student relationships, now I felt like I am my own guru. I have realized what I set out to realize. And that turned out to just be a tiny part of my realization, but at the time it felt significant. (0:15:45)

Yeah, I was going to say at the time did it feel like this is it? Like this is everything that I've been looking for? Or was it like this is a taste of it? Because obviously as you say that there is then, and this is often true for people that have these big experiences, and then there is a whole integration process that often is ongoing. (0:16:05)

The integration process was ongoing and I realized that that probably would be ongoing. But there was some kind of permanent shift in that, which again is the way that I understood what was going on. But that makes all the difference, because it had a finality to it, it had an achievement to it, a sense of like having achieved, because now that I saw that it is always already here, I could never truly unsee that. (0:16:29)

I could maybe fool myself for a little period of time, but it was very clear something, clearly something I could return to no matter what. Because everything became a confirmation of awareness, like every experience confirms awareness. It doesn't matter what happens anymore. And what did that do to your life? (0:16:43)

Because you say you'd been totally committed to, invested since you were 15, like you were going to find source. And then you have that experience. What happened to your life from that point? Ironically, I became extremely depressed. Is that right? I don't know why I've been laughing. No, you can laugh. (0:17:08)

It's funny. You laugh because it's funny. Well, it kind of is. It's not what you expect to happen, right? Like you achieve enlightenment and you get intensely depressed. Yeah, I got super depressed, I got super anxious, I got super... I felt completely stuck. At this point I moved to from Rishikesh and just everything was falling apart. (0:17:27)

Everything that held my sense of humanness alive, so to speak. My relationship, my circumstances, my finances, my goals in life. And also as a result of this thing, like I've given so much intention and meaning to this and now it was all meaningless. Like everything became meaningless for a period of time, like intensely meaningless. Like I couldn't conjure up any motivation to do anything, because why would I? I mean, it's interesting. In some ways it sounds like the same experience I've, you know, people I've known that have had in other spheres of life. (0:18:00)

Like let's say the goal was, you know, was to become a multi-millionaire and sell a business. And it's like, and they get to that point and they're actually depressed on the other side. Because it's like their whole life has been defined by, like, when I get there I'm gonna... And the whole dream is that they're going to retire and live on a beach, but they're someone that the thing that most fires them up, of course, is solving problems and leading people and they're not doing that anymore. (0:18:20)

Excellent. So it's like you reach that kind of pinnacle. Exactly. It's kind of fascinating. It's like you get there and it's like, fuck, it's like what I do now. Yeah, that is why the journey is the point, right? Right. But once we realize that, and we realize that the journey is infinite and endless, then we're good. Right. Yeah, but that took a while. (0:18:35)

As long as we believe it's about the end result. Right. And as long as we believe that after the end result everything else stops or something like that, then we'll always have that struggle. So that was another insight then that came, that then you recognize that it's like it wasn't an endpoint, that actually in a sense it was just a point in the journey. (0:18:56)

I'm not sure I realized that at that very point, like in those six months after my awakening, I was just... like my personality was being deconstructed completely, like everything I knew was being, like, torn apart and taken away. So, yeah, I was pretty depressed for, I'd say, about six to twelve months afterwards. And I came back to Holland, I live with my parents, and that's really when these realizations started to, where the rubber started to meet the road, so to speak, and I was like, okay, integration time. (0:19:25)

Like, okay, so you've realized what you wanted to realize, all the intention, like, got sucked out of you, the intensity of it, all meaning disappeared, you couldn't see any meaning in anything, no motivation for anything, your life is falling apart. And that's kind of the ultimate depression, I imagine. The ultimate depression, in some ways. It's like the existential crisis is depression, right? Yeah, it felt that way, like I didn't know where to go, what to do. (0:19:49)

Right, and it's not the kind of depression you go and see a therapist about, right? It's like, I'm not going to provide much insight, in a sense. Exactly, yeah. So that's where I realized a lot of things, like, that's when I started to build my teaching, in a way. Like, that's where the rubber meets the road, and that's like, okay, now I'm this, what seems to be a human having an awakening experience, or having had a profound awakening experience, and now the integration happens, now the practice happens, so to speak, now the application happens. (0:20:19)

So that's where I started to really delve into all the fine psychological details of how to apply, and how to return to awareness from all kinds of different states, and etc. So that's where the beginning of my teaching in this light started to emerge. So that was around the age of, I don't know, 1920, I think. (0:20:39)

So I started shooting my first, like, little YouTube clips in my attic at my parents' house, and got a little bit of exposure, got invited to a few interviews, and Conscious TV was one of them.

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Hi, I'm Alex Howard, and welcome to Conscious2. Our guest in the studio tonight is Bentinho Massaro, and tonight's going to be a combination of a little bit of interview to start with, and then some live Q&A with an in-person audience. There's also going to be an opportunity for you guys at home to send in your questions. (0:00:50)

And if you've ever seen a Conscious2 live event before, you know that part of what we try to do is capture the intimacy and transmission of an in-person event for you guys wherever you're watching in the world. We partly do that by having our multi-camera studio, which really gives you the experience like you're here, but also, as I say, by you sending in your questions. (0:01:12)

So you'll see beneath this video, there's a comments section. And in the comments section, you're welcome to either just share anything that's in your experience. So if anything that you're impacted by or anything that kind of arises for you, you can share that. But please do also share questions as well. And in the last 20, 30 minutes of this evening, I will come out and I'll put some of those questions to Bentinho as well. (0:01:40)

So I'd like to welcome our in-person audience. Thank you guys very much for being here and being part of the experience tonight. And I'd also like to welcome Bentinho. It's really great to have you here. I remember a number of years ago, you were interviewed on Conscious TV and you were saying to me a little bit earlier that it feels like a kind of long time ago, like it's hard for you to kind of remember who that was. (0:01:58)

And I thought in some ways it would be an interesting starting point. Just for people that maybe are not so familiar with you and your journey, what was the kind of, what was the beginning of the spark? What was the original kind of birthing of a spiritual appetite or curiosity for you? To teach or to... For your path? For my own discovery? Yeah, like was that always there? Yes, in a very natural way, like very unrealized way, if that makes sense. (0:02:32)

So it wasn't a conscious thought that, oh I'm conscious of something that's inspiring me. But very much so, especially looking back, like I'm able to place it all in such a clear context, I can see that ever since I can remember myself being human, I just had this sort of indescribable sense of limitlessness or everything is possible. (0:03:05)

I always felt everything is possible, like everything is possible. So I had this, and I guess a lot of kids have it in many ways, I just remember it being very palpable for me, very physical, very... It was an actual belief system, like it was an actual conviction. I was convinced everything is possible. So whenever it seemed like things were not possible, it didn't make any sense to me. (0:03:25)

It didn't make sense, like everything is possible. I always felt like I'm Superman or whatever, I'm about to fly and take off. Now this spark allowed me to always throughout childhood up to the age of 12, I'd say, 11, 12, to be really spontaneous and really just feeling completely free and connected within myself to something bigger. And around that age I started forgetting, I started to lose track of that sense, that feeling, and I became more like people, more like the average Joe that we see walking around the street not really not really aware of any special magnificent connection within. (0:04:10)

Were you aware that something was, you were losing touch with something? It was only in hindsight. Oh yeah, in hindsight. So I was not aware because it happened gradually around the time that I went to high school, I think, and in Holland, this is. I realized it maybe three years later at the age of 15. I just stopped at some point, I was like, for the past four years or so I've been, there's been drama in my life, there's been like weird things, there's been this sense of not being myself, I'm just like, I'm trying to live for other people, I'm trying to blend in, I'm trying to fit in, trying to be somebody. (0:04:48)

And I suddenly remembered very clearly how I used to be and how I used to be was just like, I didn't care what anyone thought, you know, it's just free. And the only exception is that I was always very careful of making sure I did the right thing. But other than that, there was no real sense of I care what people think about me, I was always free doing crazy things. So I remembered that so clearly from that contrasting experience of having a sense of depression to, this is not who I am. (0:05:16)

So in a sense the depression, the layer that I put over my light, the dusty layer that I put on my mirror, so to speak, became dense enough for me to feel, to wake up basically, to feel like, okay wait, something is wrong here, this is not who I am, this is not how I remember myself to be. (0:05:36)

So I started seeking for, I was exposed before that time to like around the age of 10, I was exposed to books like The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho. And I did Silva Mind Control Course for kids, which is about basic meditation techniques and using the mind and the alpha wave frequencies and the theta wave frequencies. So I had this background as a kid and I was, you know, that was very much for me that resonated at the time as a confirmation that humans were actually doing something that confirmed everything was possible. (0:06:01)

It's like, oh hey, it does make sense here on earth, it makes sense that everything is possible. (0:06:05)

But still I forgot about that or I just, it became less important for me for a period of about four years. So then I had that wake-up call and I started out researching telekinesis for some reason, I don't know exactly how that happened, but so I joined a couple websites and blogs and communities of people actually practicing like moving light objects without touching them. (0:06:33)

This was the Superman thing still going on, right? What? This was the Superman kind of like quality, right? Yeah, it was the Superman quality, yeah. So the kid came back like, hey, I can do everything, okay, so let me prove it by doing something everyone believes to be impossible, right? So I started practicing that, did that for maybe five, six months, pretty intensely, was engaged in that community. (0:06:53)

I got my first real hit of what it's like to teach and be a teacher in online communities in that regard. I got my confirmations of being able to move certain objects without touching them and then I realized like, okay, I've been practicing this for five months and I was like, you know, I could, every once in a while I could roll a pen and I was like, but this is, I've been practicing intensely for five or six months and this is all that, you know, I'm not doing anything significant per se, it's just party tricks. (0:07:22)

You want to move the world, not a pen, right? Exactly, I want to transform the world, it's not going to happen from here. So I woke up from that and I was like, well, okay, so this is a nice confirmation, this is, this feels good, this feels empowering, feels like it's a representation of who I really am. However, it doesn't take me where I want to go. (0:07:43)

So I realized that in order to really master any aspect of life, I would have to know the source of all of it. So this was when I was around 15 years old. So I remember having this thought, I was practicing telekinesis and I was like, I'm kind of tired of practicing. (0:07:57)

Do I really want to practice for the next 10 years until I can like levitate a chair? Doesn't seem that appealing to me. The payoff doesn't seem big enough for the practice. So there's a fact, there must be a faster way, there must be a faster way to understanding all aspects and having mastery over all aspects. (0:08:14)

Now over time that shifted from, you know, became less important to have physical mastery and more important to have emotional mastery and mental mastery and well-being mastery and touching lives and inspiration and all that stuff. But at the time it was very much like, I want to master everything. Like the everything is possible-ness, like I want that. (0:08:35)

So how do I achieve that? What's the quickest way? And I just had this hit, this insight, I need to know the source of all of it. If I can focus my minimal amount of time, sorry, we all have minimum amount of time available in this life. So I was like, if I just devote all that energy into one thing instead of trying to master all these aspects, what should I pour it into? And so source came up, like the source of all of it, because then you have mastery over all of it. (0:09:02)

And it's interesting as well, just reflecting as you were talking, it's a very generation-wide, whatever generation we kind of are, approach like, I want it now. Like I want to do it quickly and I want it now. And it's interesting, it's like when you ask a different question, you come from a different place, often new possibilities get opened as well. (0:09:17)

So then I shifted to that and I think one of the first books I came in contact with that was really deliberately looking for the source of all of life, like enlightenment, reaching the absolute or the ultimate, was the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali. So I was probably 15, 16 years old and I started studying the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali. I joined a yoga meditation teacher training that lasted three years. (0:09:53)

And so I started meditating and contemplating and I was very, I was very deliberate and it was very fiery, so to speak, like no nonsense, you know, like cutting through all the bullshit. Excuse me. Now you can swear here. I love this company, ConsciousSue.com. My kind of people. (0:10:12)

We had someone, just as an aside, we had someone on Tuesday night and he was like, can I swear? I was like, we've had loads of F-bombs. We've had a C-bomb. I was like, no, of course you have to draw a C-bomb. So I think basically anything's allowed now. So just like wherever you want to go. (0:10:28)

Okay, excellent. Anyway, so there you were. You were kind of, you just read the sutras and you were kind of, you were kind of intense in terms of the search. Yeah, very much so. And I, so I spent time with my yoga teacher at the time, meditation teacher, and she was lovely. She was amazing. (0:10:47)

She was my first sort of proper teacher. And in some senses, my only, because it was consistent for three years and I never stayed with a teacher for longer than like a week or so. So this was my first experience of having that type of teacher-student relationship within that yoga meditation training. And as awesome as she was and her instructions were, it was too much. (0:11:10)

There were all these housewomen, sorry, how do you call that? Housewives. Housewives, yes. And they were just, they were, you know, they were talking about like seeing all these beautiful blue little lights in their meditation and like, oh this is so lovely and that's so lovely. And I was like, okay, I'm so, I love you guys, but like I want enlightenment. Where's this going, you know? (0:11:26)

Like let's cut to the chase there. So a lot of that kind of stuff felt very redundant to me, felt very much like, and even some of the meditations that we were asked to do, just felt like it was going around in circles. And it wasn't going straight to what I wanted, which is source, which is clarity, which is enlightenment, which is the absolute totality. (0:11:47)

Yeah, you didn't just want to feel better or you wanted something radical. You wanted to know. I wanted to not waste any time and get to the very source of everything. So I left a year early and it just didn't resonate to finish it. And I went to India instead. I was like, okay, where's the source of what I'm doing here? And the source of yoga is considered to be Rishikesh, India. So I was like, okay, I'll go there. (0:12:14)

And that really blew up for me. That was like, oh, nice. Because now you can't go anywhere. Like now you're stuck with enlightenment, basically. (0:13:54)

So I started shooting my first, like, little YouTube clips in my attic at my parents' house, and got a little bit of exposure, got invited to a few interviews, and Conscious TV was one of them. And how was that, kind of, you know, 1920, it's like most people, certainly most people in this country are going down the path of getting, we call it getting pissed in this country, I don't know, getting drunk, but it's like, that's like... We call it becoming English. Is that right? That's great! It's a complete aside, I was watching a program with my wife last night about British people on the holiday, it's like so embarrassing, like, they just go out and just like, especially in Holland, right, in Amsterdam, it's like just... It's hilarious. (0:21:29)

Anyway, coming back to the story, so you were 1920, and, you know, you were putting out videos, and you were kind of sharing teaching, what was that like? It must have been a pretty interesting experience, in a sense, that it's like, you know, you're kind of probably half the age of many of the people that you're kind of, you're teaching to. (0:21:44)

Yeah. What's that like on a kind of personal level, being with that? I didn't really care about the age thing, or anything else, I was just inspired to share. I just knew like, okay, this is what I feel really inspired to do, and it felt really clear, so I did it. I remember there were a few moments where there was some kind of a personal anxiety about like, capturing myself on video and doing that stuff, but it was only in the very early days after that just started flowing, I became really comfortable with that. (0:22:11)

And yeah, ever after that, it's just continued to evolve and snowball, and I mean, it's it's a crazy, it's a crazy fucking life. I mean, ever since, it's just been, there's no, there's no structure, there's no, things just change and evolve so fast, over and over again. Well, it's interesting you say that, because it kind of brings to the next bit I wanted to explore a little bit. (0:22:42)

You were saying to me a little bit earlier that your kind of process of kind of structuring a whole kind of, the kind of organizational elements, let's say, kind of around your teaching. And one of the things that is a big personal interest of mine is where, to use your words, where enlightenment meets empowerment, or to use other words, kind of being kind of in the world, but not being of the world. (0:23:02)

And that kind of integration of those two spaces. And it seems to me that that's particularly a burning question, I would say in our generation somehow, in previous kind of spiritual kind of seekers, somehow there was a sense of, you kind of stepped away from the world to have a kind of spiritual experience and often stayed out of the world having had a spiritual experience. (0:23:22)

And this idea of kind of very much living in the world. So, you know, you're saying, you know, you kind of, you know, you kind of say company offices and different departments, all that kind of stuff, properly living in the world, but also not necessarily being of the world in the way certainly that most people would be. (0:23:41)

And I'm really, I'm curious to hear more about how you see, you could put it in different ways, kind of how the beauty of the meeting, but often it can be a tension between those two places. So maybe the kind of the starting point is, perhaps before we come more to the teaching side, is how you resolved that or how that was for you. (0:23:56)

Because in a sense that sounds like that was you coming from the place of having had your enlightenment experience to then kind of establishing your role as a teacher and coming into the world. (0:24:05)

So yeah, how you see those two places? Today I call it true simultaneity. So in a way, if you go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth between different things long enough, they start to both become simultaneous or you start to understand that even if you're in track B for a second, track A still exists simultaneous to track B. You're just placing your conscious attention on different things whenever it's the most relevant. (0:24:37)

So that's what it's like for me today. It has that sense of true simultaneity to it. In other words, there is an awareness of awareness, there's an awareness of emptiness, there's an awareness of nothingness, there is an awareness of what I call beyond consciousness even, the one infinite creator. There is a sense of whatever is happening here, the sense of the physical focus. (0:24:58)

There is a sense of the dynamics of the people around me and what's going on in their brains. And there is a sense of my own inspirations and how I'm guided from what I would call a higher level of my own consciousness within the illusion of creation that is in a sense channeling its information into the physical consciousness that then is inspired to do certain things. (0:25:20)

And then there's me like sort of noticing certain belief systems I've picked up along the way that no longer serve me, that I'm dismantling and empowering myself with greater light and love and empowerment. So there's the true simultaneity of all these different layers or levels of self-realization and self-actualization. And they just come together at some point because of your, in a sense, long-term exposure to each of these elements individually. But you go back and forth, go back and forth depending on what's most relevant. (0:25:45)

And at some point it just all sort of is here, like it's all here simultaneously. You can shift very quickly and notice, oh that's here, this is here, that's there. God's over there, higher selves over there, higher minds over there. There's this other person over here that seems to be there but it's an illusion. (0:26:02)

There's a collective consciousness that we all agree to have this consensus reality experience with. At the same time it's nothing but empty space. So you just, you know... Because that's one of the things I think is particularly interesting. When you have experiences beyond self, you can use lots of different words we could use, but experiences where self disappears and there's just a kind of a rising of experience. (0:26:21)

And then, that's true of the perspective of the absolute. And then from the point of view of the relative, there's Bentino here, there's Alex here, there's people here and we're having a conversation, there's people watching that. And then that gets even, you know, more challenging when, you know, there's difficulty in a human relationship for example. (0:26:42)

And how there being no person meets having to meet a person and deal with the kind of the stickiness and the kind of... I wonder how you see that and how you kind of navigate with that. (0:26:51)

So sharing with a couple of my friends today and yesterday that for me right now my... Okay, let's see how am I going to explain this. So ask any question you want, just try to follow what I'm saying. So the... Because in a sense it's like it's interesting. I can say from kind of personal experience that I'd go off and I'd do retreats and I'd have experiences like, you know, there's no one there. Like, and it'd just be amazing. It is kind of complete openness and spaciousness. (0:27:29)

And then I'd come into the office. I'd come back from a retreat, straight into the office and I had to fire someone. And it was like, how the fuck do these like... How do I be like no person and on a very human level? Like I'm having a conversation which is personally challenging. It's challenging for that person to hear. (0:27:48)

And it's like, I know their kids and it's like, but it's just like, you know, and it's like the situation is not working. And it's like, it's a really interesting like that. I find that... And, you know, I have my own kind of ideas and resolutions and kind of clarities about it. But it's just, it seems that for me, a lot of spiritual teaching that's around these days, it's like what it teaches us to do is to step back into ourself and to find space there. (0:28:14)

And it's difficult in that kind of coming into the world. And I know that's something that you've kind of developed some clarity around in a sense. And it's kind of become, you're not just talking about waking up, you're also talking about actualizing and actually, you know, coming forwards in the world. Right. So let me start talking about it a little bit from a more, like a better word, advanced point of view, meaning like after a lot of time of having this experience. (0:28:37)

So right now, what it's like for me is that my consciousness is so transparent and clear and transpersonal in nature that in order for me to have a learning experience on a nitty-gritty scale, I need to forget who I am again. So what I find myself doing, my consciousness doing, is I actually place the majority of my consciousness inside of a bubble reality, as I call it, that is held within my greater being, from within which I forget I don't have access to what I have access to right now when I'm talking to you. (0:29:16)

So it doesn't matter what I do or what I don't do. I become like anyone else in that experience, except for the knowledge that I know what's going on to an extent. Does this make sense? Yeah, it does. But within that bubble, I need to sustain that bubble of illusion, I need to have that sense of separation and desire and I need to maintain that illusion in order for me to have that learning experience, because otherwise there's no point of view. (0:29:46)

Like my consciousness right now is too transparent to have a mobilizing point of view. You need a point of view to mobilize yourself to do something. There needs to be a right or wrong, there needs to be yes or no, there needs to be this versus that. So I literally find myself, I find my overall life, my overall self, my more fully realized being within this life, creating bubbles at certain periods of time that are fairly isolated from the rest of my life. (0:30:19)

Means I can vibrationally mess up within that bubble without it affecting everything else that I've achieved or done. In other words, I might feel really bad in that mode, but normally if I would feel really bad as my actual overall self here now, that means that I would be attracting all kinds of negative things to myself. (0:30:35)

And since this is a safety mechanism, I put a portion of my consciousness in there to have a learning experience and I become very much, as you would say, human. So I live in that experience of duality and intensity and care and all that. So and then when I have achieved whatever I want to realize and take and extract from that intense experience, the bubble pops and it's like finally back to alignment, back to connection and everything that I have achieved in this life in terms of remembrance and awakening returns instantly. (0:31:10)

And without getting too kind of into the kind of detail, I'm really curious, when you're in the bubble and you're experiencing the world through that, do you find there's over time a refinement even of that element of yourself? So you get more skillful and get more clarity and get more capacity from that place? Yes, but it depends on the purpose of the bubble. (0:31:35)

Sometimes the purpose of the bubble is to mess up. All right. Sometimes the purpose of the bubble is to not know what the hell you're doing. So it depends a little bit on what the learning purpose is. Some of them are really conscious and are really pristine and perfect and flawless in their execution. (0:31:52)

And they still function as they are meant to. They still fulfill that purpose. But some of them have the purpose of really giving me the experience of the most dense human separation experience. So that I, for multiple reasons, one is because that really forces me into deeper and deeper layers of unconditional love. And it also forces me to really stay connected to the people that I'm sharing my message with. (0:32:17)

Like what that is like for them. So it allows me to remain compassionate and understanding. Because when you are in this transparent awareness all the time, you kind of do start losing a sense of what it's like to suffer. So I willingly suffer for periods at a time. And when I do them they're usually not very long, but they are very intense. (0:32:46)

And so this keeps me connected to my audience in a way. And it makes me overall a better teacher. And it increases my devotion because it forces me to make a choice. It forces me to continue to persevere. And it forces me to continue to have faith and have trust in those experiences. (0:33:02)

Which I cannot have. I cannot have that amount of catalyst and learning and contrast. I cannot learn that much faith and trust and love and expansion and break in into everything as if I were not to set up these bubbles. Because I see too much beyond the illusion from my regular point of view. (0:33:18)

So I need to segregate my consciousness. And there's also something about having a human experience whilst we're here in this kind of human world, I guess, there's something about that that has its own richness in the fucked upness and the dysfunction of it as well, somehow. I also want to take a slightly different tack in the same kind of space. (0:33:37)

And in a minute we'll open up to these guys as well because I don't want to hog the floor too much. But I also... when you're describing your own journey and your own kind of pursuit, it's like there was a level of intensity and a level of, you know, these weren't the words you used, but what it sounded like is it's like, I'm going to wake up, I'm going to die. (0:33:59)

It's like, I guess probably both in a sense, but it's like, that was a kind of... I'm going to die and wake up. Right, exactly. But it's like there was a kind of an absoluteness to your commitment to the absolute, I guess you could put it in one way. And one of the other kind of tensions that I find fascinating, in a sense, part of, I should say, part of my interest in life is the kind of the tensions and the kind of dances between different things, is the place of just allowing and the place that things just, they have their own guidance and like, who are we to think we have a better plan than the plan that's just unfolding? And the place of discipline and commitment and showing up and focus. (0:34:47)

And I wonder how you kind of see that? Because in many ways, your story is an example of like just total commitment to something. And in some ways, what you ultimately realized was there was nothing you had to do to have the experience that you had. So I just wonder if you've got any clarity in terms of how to reconcile the place and put it in a succinct kind of question, people committing to showing up in their life, committing to their practices or committing to their path, whilst also getting out of their own way. (0:35:11)

Nice question. Yeah, I call that the balance of will and faith. Balancing will with faith or faith with will. So some people are too, just to give a few general examples, some people in my experience are too imbalanced in the direction of faith. So it's all about grace, you know, like the grace conversation. Like you just sit here and you know, you'll wake up when grace comes to get to you. (0:35:33)

Which can also be an excuse of being a complete arsehole, right? You can just be an arsehole to everyone. It's just grace, it's just what's happening. Yeah, I'm not a person, but hey, fuck you. Right, exactly. Grace will come and get me someday and then maybe we can reconnect later. Right. But even so, more important for their own journey, they become complacent or bitter in a way. (0:35:57)

Like it's just a waiting game. Like and you can't really, you can't, like everything comes to you based on your vibrational frequency. Meaning whatever your attitude assumes, everything is vibration. So attitude is vibration and attitude or state of being is one of the most intimate, it's the closest to your soul consciousness, to your core consciousness. (0:36:16)

It's your state of being, that's what you're sending out, that's what you're vibrating, that's what you're literally coloring this dream with. So if your attitude is one of eager anticipation and the faith or the conviction that your answers that you're looking for are coming to you, then they will come to you. Now when they come, you might have the experience that people would call grace, but it's by your own volition. (0:36:39)

It's by the volition, it's by the virtue of you setting up yourself to be in a proper vibrational state, to be in alignment with the frequency where that type of information you're seeking is available. So you can, for example, say like okay, I want clarity and awareness or I want enlightenment or I want to know what it's like to be more than just the body-mind experience, while at the same time coming at it from the place of the body-mind experience. (0:37:05)

And like okay, I'll just wait for that over there to happen. Then you're sending out the frequency of I'm lacking enlightenment, I'm never good enough to get there, I have to wait for my guru to be with me for 20 years, whatever, 20 lifetimes from now. So even something as subjective as enlightenment is entirely up to our own choice in many ways. (0:37:23)

It's up to us to choose to be in the proper vibrational state where we are in the space of natural let go, so to speak, where that experience is shown to us. So ultimately I would say you are the creator of your own experiences no matter what. And simultaneously that creatorship cannot come from a place of feeling isolated and separate and limited. (0:37:52)

I mean it can, but then you generate more of those experiences. So when we're talking about the more divine experiences or the more true understandings of our true selves, we need to be in a vibrational state of receptivity and willingness and conviction that we can actually realize that. And that's why it happened fairly quickly for me in early on is because I was always convinced everything was possible. (0:38:13)

So that's my part, that's what I did. Now of course my what I would call higher consciousness or higher self or non-physical self, which has way more intelligence and sees more than I'm allowed to see with my physical brain, it will guide the process in due timing. It will give you certain experiences first before it gives you another experience, before it gives you another experience. (0:38:34)

And sometimes from being at the beginning of our journey we want to end up at the end immediately. But that's where the faith part comes in, that's where the trust part comes in, that's where the letting that journey unfold comes in and trusting that you're exactly where you need to be. Nevertheless that should never turn into an attitude of pessimism or nihilism or grace. (0:38:55)

It should always remain eager anticipation without lack, without believing it's lacking now. Eagerly anticipating what's next for you, being excited about it, seeing it, feeling it, being it, being committed to it, while simultaneously not saying that it's lacking now, nor giving it away to a greater power, but just understanding that there is a process that's guiding you, but you have to be in that vibrational state of readiness and willingness, participatoriness, and then it will come at perfect timing. (0:39:25)

And that's something that you're actively cultivating, right? That vibrational frequency. It's training. Right. Yeah. And then again that comes back to a showing up to, I guess, and a kind of commitment to that. (0:39:38)

Yes, you got to care. Right. You really do have to care. Right. If you don't care, then nothing else cares for you, in a sense. Like you won't have the experiences that you care about. So yes, there needs to be commitment. There needs to be desire, most of all. If you have a desire, that's true, then there's nothing that's stopping you from getting there. (0:39:57)

Now there might be a little bit of time, a little bit of a journey in between now and then, but that's because from a higher point of view, you are given the desire, because it will have you as a person place a landmark, like down the road, as to where you want to end up. (0:40:16)

So that you actually start moving in the direction of the journey that is the most important part of what you actually want. So it's not even so much that you want what you think you want, but you're given what you think you want, so that you start walking that path. (0:40:30)

And it's going through that journey that extracts all the experiences, and the devotion, and the practice, and the training, and the teaching yourself love, and faith, and expansion that the soul takes with it, in a sense. That's what adds to your soul experience. It's not the getting where you want to be, it's the going there. Yes, and it's the whole-hearted, whole-bodied commitment, showing up like desire of that, which I guess is, you know, one of the qualities of kind of your story, which I think is particularly impactful, that it's like, you know, I will have this experience. (0:41:03)

Like, you know, even if it's like, you know, I throw my whole life to the side, I will have this experience. And it's like, there's something about that, which is very powerful. Yes, yet most mountains. Right, yeah. You're trying to move pens and you move mountains. Thank you for noticing. (0:41:22)

All right, so I want to open it up to you guys that are here, and it may well be that there are questions that are inspired by just the conversation we've had, and also as we said to you guys earlier, it's also totally fine if you just want to bring forward questions that you've got. So yeah, I don't know who wants to be the first. Yeah, great. We just pass over the mic. (0:41:37)

Great. Or do you want to come and sit up here? Is it a... we don't really know yet, do we? Okay, all right. So, Bentina, when you talk about this bigness and this kind of superman-ness that you always were in touch with as a child, is that something that's present in everybody? Because I feel like that was not a common conversation as I was growing up, but now more and more I'm meeting people who are very... who say things like, I feel so big, like I can hardly contain it, I'm so big, I'm going to burst, I'm going to explode, and it's... and that it's always there, and that actually what's going on is we're all sort of turning the dial right down, so that we don't swallow each other up with our bigness, and kind of keeping each other squished like, you know, in a space, like what would happen if... well, so my first question, is that something that is present in everyone? And what would happen if we just all turn the dial right up? Nice. Well, yes, absolutely. It's everyone's nature. (0:42:41)

It might not be relevant for everyone necessarily to fully remember that, because, like I said, limitation serves a certain purpose, depending on what your theme is, what you actually want to get out of this life. You have to put certain limitations on your view, otherwise you will not have that particular life. So limitation and illusion and ignorance serves the purpose of the journey being fulfilled in a certain way. (0:43:08)

However, mechanically, or however you'd say that, structurally speaking, everybody is capable of anything. Every limitation is simply superimposed by our own consciousness, for certain reasons, and sometimes assumed by us as a personal receiver of limitation. We just start to believe in certain things we don't have to believe in, but we assume it anyway, because everyone's believing in it. (0:43:32)

Now that's the part we can all get rid of, or transform. The part we can't all transform is, it might not be relevant for everyone to just start teleporting and flying off of the planet right now. Give it a few years, it might become more common. But as we speak, it's not relevant. But everything is inside of consciousness. Everything is like a dream within consciousness. (0:43:54)

Everything is quantumly arranged in different configurations, and there is no space, there's no time, there is no gravity. None of these things are actually real. So even from a very realistic point of view, everything is possible. (0:44:05)

But again, we don't necessarily have control over all that, except from our higher consciousness, which is still us, our overarching being, because of the purpose of the journey. But we as a human consciousness, so to speak, we as a person consciousness, not a person consciousness, because we can transcend that and still be here, as a physically focused consciousness, so to speak, that's here attending to our lives, the I am that we feel we are here. (0:44:32)

It is up to us to sort of sift through the beliefs that we've adopted as kids and as growing up and transform or get rid of as many of these that don't feel good. The ones that are not relevant for us to look at and let go of are the ones we don't even really notice are there. (0:44:49)

We don't really feel them yet, because they're still outside of our view. They're still holding us within that space. But within this space, it's not yet relevant for us to dismantle these things. But whatever feels like it's limiting you right now in your journey and where you want to go, those beliefs are very relevant to look at and let go of and see where you pick them up along the way and that they're not yours to begin with. (0:45:07)

And then you can have more and more the experience of being superman or superwoman and that you really are not limited by anything except your own choice, your own free will. And what was the second question? Well so it was just really like if we all start turning, which you did like answer really, if we start turning the... If we start turning up our dials all together, things accelerate so quickly that our planet is unrecognizable within 10 years. (0:45:38)

In other words, when one person turns up the dial, it's all right and we can see them as inspiring people. We call them Steve Jobs or we call them whatever. But when everyone starts doing this, it becomes crazy because everything confirms that everything is possible in everyone's reality. And it just completely shifts the collective consciousness's automatic mind agreement, as I call it, which is the people have an unconscious mind, so to speak. (0:46:08)

Not really, but so to speak. And the collective has one too, which sets up all the agreements and rules within that container of limitation. We then explore certain journeys. But so that unconscious mind is like the stage of the theater within which, or on top of which, whose rules we play the game. So based on these rules, we have certain conditions that guide the game in certain ways so we can learn certain lessons. (0:46:35)

Now the unconscious is what takes care of things like gravity, like space-time, like linearity, like how fast time moves. All these kinds of experiences are arranged by the collective unconscious. So what happens is that if everyone would turn up their dial, well let's say I turn up my dial as much as I can right now, but none of you do, or nobody else does. (0:46:56)

I can then only go so high, because otherwise I would literally be breaking through the barriers of this collective agreement. And I would either literally, that's what sometimes they call ascended masters, when people disappear and go up to heaven. (0:47:07)

It's literally that you become of such a different frequency that you're no longer belonging to the civilization or consciousness that you are part of. So you're shifting into an alternate reality altogether, where you do belong, where you do fit in at that point. But so if I were to turn up my dial maximum and I would be stretching and pushing against the boundaries, which is sort of what happened for me about six months ago when I said I can't go on in this way anymore. (0:47:34)

Like if something has to change, either this world has to come a little bit my way or I'm going to disappear. But if everyone was suddenly to turn up their dials, then I can also turn up my dial that much more, because now it's allowed without popping out. So now if everyone keeps doing that, there is an exponential increase in what becomes possible and what people believe to be possible. (0:47:55)

And you would literally start seeing very weird things happen, physically weird things. So yeah, a lot of funky stuff would happen. But also, I mean, it would be amazing. But the collective has to be ready for that. And that has its own timing and cannot be forced. So would you say that the beginning of that is in this conversation? And just like having a readying the way. It's just in the conversation. (0:48:29)

First having the conversation that it's even a possibility to expand to that extent. And then it's like, oh, is that possible? I'm not sure. But it plants a seed. And then it starts proving itself and proving itself. And the more it proves itself, the more the conviction changes. And the more the agreements in the unconscious of the collective changes. (0:48:48)

And when that changes, the whole platform changes. And things that are really hard to achieve right now or near impossible or even not allowed within this reality will suddenly become like everyday knowledge, like we actually would be jumping around. Like we wouldn't need our planes to get anywhere. Would be more like a dream. Thank you. Just a follow-up question on what you said about how you, kind of your journey. (0:49:27)

Did you see at some point that it was your free will or there was a kind of fate for you to be where you are now? Um, good question. So free will or fate, right? That's what you're saying. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Good question. Um, I, I see it as a communication that happens all the time between higher consciousness and this sense of I am consciousness that's over here talking to you right now. (0:49:54)

So I just, I've always been very transparent and intuitive with that communication. But basically it's, it's a two-way street. Free will has to be honored at every level of consciousness. In other words, um, I, I have my area of free will, so to speak. I can't choose right now whether I want to drink this water or not. (0:50:21)

That's up to my, what I would call my consciousness. But again, there's things that are not up to my level of consciousness, such as some of the other stuff I just spoke about. (0:50:25)

But there's a constant communication happening. Now, my higher consciousness may have a certain blueprint, may have a certain, um, energetic flow that it's, that it's, um, that it's pushing into my life, that it's, that it's trying to nudge me with intuitively, like by me following my resonance, it would be my way of listening to that. (0:50:50)

But it is up to me whether or not I listen to that. So the free will part in this case is, do I receive that information and listen to it and pay attention and want to learn and do I want to get to where my higher consciousness wants me to get to? Or do I insist that perhaps I'm not worthy of it, I'm not good enough, I'm unloved, or I just quite frankly want something else. (0:51:12)

I don't want to embark upon a spiritual journey, I just want to be a rich millionaire or whatever it is. So it's up to the individual's free will as to how efficiently they let in what from this point of view you would call fate, which from higher consciousness's point of view is actually free will. (0:51:31)

So your higher consciousness is moving the glass, which is your life in that sense, and it's up to you from this level whether or not you act on that, receive that, and be in the proper vibrational state to actually be able to interpret that and act on it. So it's both, it's a two-way street. (0:51:48)

I just happened to make my free will really intensely in service of fate, or rather higher free will, or suggestions, or intuition. Because, and here's something that I do really want to give to people, this knowledge, this information, which is please prioritize. This is something that few people do, and it's so important to realize what actually serves you and what doesn't, because when we resist using our free will, there's nothing in this universe that can stop us from having the experience that we say what it is. (0:52:31)

If we say this is the way it is, that's the experience we'll have. There's nothing, your higher consciousness can't break you out of that, except in rare special locations where it's required. But in normal circumstances, it needs to honor your free will in that sense. So, what's very important for us as individuated consciousnesses is to understand that our free will is honored, and that we do in that sense create, or accept, or agree as to how much goodness we let into our lives, how much acceleration, and amazingness, and realization we let into our lives. (0:53:04)

That is up to us. Now, when we think we want certain things, but it's not actually what we want, that's when we block ourselves, you see. So, what I just happened to really realize, or wanted to realize, and wanted to investigate deeply within myself is what is truly important? What is truly relevant for my life? What's truly relevant, period? And I realized that moving a pen around and practicing 10 more years to levitate a chair is not relevant for me. (0:53:33)

Now, my conscious conditioned mind might have all kinds of limiting ideas about how awesome that would be to 10 years from now be able to levitate a chair and show up for my friends, but I knew that that is not something that would be relevant for me, that that's not something true. (0:53:42)

So, what I want people to realize really is that they should ask them, if anything, ask yourself the question, what do I truly want? And be open to receiving the highest suggestions from your higher free will as possible, so that now you can actually become receptive of that free will, and your higher free will and your lower free will can become one free will. (0:54:04)

And this is where you become really powerful. This is where you become really transparent, and this is where faith and will, or fate and will, in a sense, become one stream. You become one being more and more. Your vibrational point of attraction, as well as your vibrational point of being an individuated being, now becomes closer and closer in the frequency domain, closer and closer to the frequency domain of your true self, of your overarching self. (0:54:32)

And that's basically what the whole spiritual journey is about. It's about minimizing the distortion between your personally asserted self vibration, and the vibration of your true self, which is always shining right here. It's always beaming, it's always suggesting, it's always guiding. If you can pick up on that guidance by being humble enough to ask yourself what is truly important, not my vain ideas, not my idle curiosities, not for the purpose of complementing my lack beliefs and making me feel good for a moment because I believe I'm lacking this, and if I get that, I'll feel good for a little bit. (0:55:04)

No, what's really important, how do I want to waste the next 20 years of my life? You're going to waste it anyway. Might as well waste it on something that's truly important to you, and that you came here for. So when you ask yourself those kinds of questions, it tunes your frequency so finely that your free will now becomes in service of higher free will. And then you no longer feel it as fate. (0:55:23)

You only call it fate if you disagree with what happens, you see. You only call it grace if you don't realize that you're the one correcting it to yourself. So you stop using these terms, you just see everything as free will now. Because you're in conscious deliberate communication, you're paying attention. Thank you very much. Thank you. Levitating the chair would have been a good YouTube video. Sorry? (0:55:48)

Levitating the chair would have been a good YouTube video, right? Yeah, I'll return in five years. You'll have the primer. Yeah, that'd be great. We get to break the story, right? I'm interested in the journey of the Twin Flame. Now, I realize the Twin Flame is another idea, another concept, but it's been around for a while. Just hold the mic. I'm interested in that in the context of understanding that I create everything that's around me. (0:56:21)

It's my energy. I'm 100% responsible for that. I'm interested in specifically is the interface between me and my Twin Flame, who sits sitting next to me right now at this moment. (0:56:28)

I realize that that's my energy that I'm talking to, my energy that I make love to. But I realized that her universe and my universe are probably vibrating very, very similarly. That's why we have a strong connection. How strong is that connection? Are we one soul split in two? Are we two separate souls? Having our own journey? Or is it that we've just come into such close vibration that we begin to experience so much of our reality simultaneously at the same time? (0:57:02)

Awesome. In a way, this is how the entire universe is set up. It's diversification of the one. Multiplication of the one. It's the one splitting up in two, two splitting up in four, four splitting up in eight, etc. So in a way, there is a reality to it. I think it's often put in a limited understanding from a human perspective when it's called Twin Flame. It's made to... just the way it's understood, it's kind of one-dimensional. But in essence, yes, it happens all the time. (0:57:46)

In fact, it's a reality that consciousness diversifies itself layer upon layer upon layer down, so to speak. It's like an organizational level. There's the CEO, then there's the managers, then there's... So it's a very real experience. Now sometimes you might run into someone that's actually part of the same higher self more directly. (0:58:08)

So two extensions, two fingers of the same hand that meet each other. And so you have a more intense experience of synchronicity, of simultaneity, of connection. And so you could call that soulmate. Sometimes the idea is created of the Twin Flame, which might simply be an agreement for this life to create that experience of counterpart or having the exact being split into two experiences meeting itself. (0:58:36)

And this can happen in any kind of configuration. It can just be a friend you meet on the streets. It can be a partner. So yes, there is a reality to it. And it's not necessarily as romantic as people often make it sound. And by romantic, I mean like isolated. Like often it's made out to be such an isolated event and so that people can idolize around it and like fall in love with the concept of it. (0:59:03)

That's what I mean with romantic. Now in essence, it's truly romantic. It's beautifully romantic. It's like union, right? So it is romantic. But the way that humans approach it is often from a limited context. And they give all their power away to that experience. But in essence, yes, it is a real experience that you can agree to have in this life if you want to. (0:59:26)

That's how your consciousness orchestrated. And essentially everyone is your soulmate ultimately. But it might just be that this finger is not part of this hand, but it is part of the same body. You know what I'm saying? So you might not have as immediately as much of a connection to this particular finger. You might have a better connection with this finger because it's part of this hand, which is more immediately part of your thematic exploration in this life. (0:59:50)

Nevertheless, if you really go deep, you will find that it's all one beating heart. So it doesn't have to... you don't have to be limited to being married to your soulmate or to your twin flame or it can be anyone ultimately. Whatever resonates for you in this life or at that time or at that moment. Does that answer your question? (1:00:06)

I think the deeper question was when we recognize that and we are having this experience and we've agreed to have it, is can we touch? Is there a level at which we can surpass the physical, the duality, and actually unite at a higher level so we can actually... from our perspective if we're not touching as twin flames, it can't be, whoa, I want to be able to touch at some level. (1:00:33)

Is there a part within the lovemaking process or within that where we can actually begin to resonate as one at a higher level? Absolutely, yeah. You'll only have that experience fully though if both partners are able to actually do that. But yes, it's possible. That's my question. Thank you. Thanks. So my part of that question then would be, I heard you talk about the video game analogy and how we're interfacing with our own experience of the virtual reality. (1:01:12)

And this brought up a great conversation for us both about where I was really grokking the experience of being almost outside of the room but placing a part of my consciousness into an agreed construct that I'm interfacing with Hugh in and with you in and so forth. But as you spoke about it, you can play a video game from country to country. (1:01:39)

You're not actually in the same vicinity that you believe you're in. You're in this interface that appears to be that. And so we wondered at what point one actually, can one actually truly bridge in the interface? Or are we all the time? You can never bridge in the interface truly. But you can have, you can generate the experience of energy transfer so to speak or energy entanglement. But really the real connection only happens from higher self to higher self. (1:02:09)

So you might have the permission slip experience of two bodies like looking each other in the eyes and playing romantic music and like having this experience of union. But the experience of union is because you as an individual open up to what your higher selves are already experiencing. You become more receptive to it. (1:02:31)

Your body mind experience receives it and identifies it with the experience of the physicality of looking the other person in the eyes. But it's you opening up to your higher self already having an experience of entanglement with the other person's soul. Does that make sense? Yes, but I won't be able to tell it to anyone else later. That's awesome. (1:02:54)

I would love to go straight into another question which is perhaps you're going to show me how it connects but it feels it came about from something you were saying earlier. And that's that in my current practices I've been playing with a particular phrase, be still and know that I am God. And I love how this feels. I love the pleasurable resonance in myself as I land in that awareness. (1:03:24)

And I'm questioning when I'm doing that. I think it ties into what you're describing about grace and that notion of surrender to that which is or the old traditions would call it devotion. And yet my spiritual practices hitherto were more about I am God. I am that. (1:03:44)

I am each and every moment. And I direct this and I call forth this and I invoke that. So I've been going, okay, which path do I really want to develop here and become magnificent in? The I am-ness of every word that I speak or the surrender in the being still access to that which is so much greater than that which I'm conscious of every day. (1:04:04)

Why choose one? (1:04:05)

Because there's areas that my life isn't working yet for me in the way that I expect and desire them to. And so I'm feeling that there's something that I haven't developed yet. And I think the... Which is what? Money. Nice. I have been, from my perception of myself, I've been of service pleasurably in every single way. It's my greatest joy. (1:04:39)

Anytime, every time. Talk to anyone, connect, give the gift, be available. And yet despite this natural pleasurable outflowing, I have never received an effortless inflow into my system, into my life, into the level of freedom I choose to live at. So what's going on there? So once you focus on some topic in a certain way, it generates a relationship with that topic energetically. Does that make sense? (1:05:02)

Yes. So as soon as you focus on the concept of money, like from an early age onwards, you start focusing on the idea of money. You build up this idea of money and you start building an energetic relationship to this projection in your consciousness that you believe is out there, but really it's your own projection. (1:05:22)

But you build such a focus on that thing that builds over time, it's repeated, it's repeated, it's repeated, because you think about money probably multiple times a day in some fashion. So it becomes this topic in your consciousness that you focus on and you develop a whole relationship with it and around it, like meaning is given to it in so many ways. (1:05:43)

When meaning is given to something, that meaning, depending on its frequency, will establish the results that that topic manifests in your life. In other words, if you give meaning to money as being big, does it make sense? Like money is big. Money is a big topic. It's a difficult thing. It's an intense thing. It's a important thing. It has a lot of gravity. You need it. It's hard to get a lot of it. I don't know exactly how to get a lot of it. (1:06:06)

My parents didn't exactly get a lot of it. There's only a few people that have a lot of it. So you start focusing on that over and over again. You start giving it away, like you start segregating it. I don't really know how to explain this, but it's like you start putting a portion of your consciousness in a box as if it's not you, as if it's a separate topic. (1:06:30)

But now you have a relationship, a vibrational relationship to money that feels really big and really heavy and really intense. And so you'll never be able to attract it from that relational point of view effortlessly or easily because there's way too much focus on it as a separate heavy thing. You'll notice that people that make a lot of money, they don't sweat the small stuff. (1:06:54)

It doesn't mean they're not attentive to detail per se or efficiency, but you'll find that they don't make a big deal out of money. They don't look at what they spend, basically. Now you can argue that they do that because they have a lot of money, and that is true. But it's true also that this continues to build a relationship of ease with money for them. (1:07:16)

That's why the rich get richer. That's why the poor get poorer or stay poor. It's because for the poor, money seems like this big and cumbersome unachievable object. They feel like it's so far away from them. And so they'll continue to attract hardship in return for a few cents or a few dollars. Whereas people are like, yeah, okay, that's the best hotel room. (1:07:42)

Okay, we'll do that, like equipment. Okay, which is, I don't want to look at all the details. What's the best one? Just tell me. Oh, that's the best one. Okay, let's do that. (1:07:45)

But why do they do that? Because they have a lot of money. But why do they have a lot of money? Because their relationship with money has been easier. They have had an easier meaning given to money. It doesn't mean as much to them as it means to you. Now maybe making billions means a lot to them. They might be money magnets. They might be money obsessed even and still make a lot of money. (1:08:09)

But they are working with the big money. But when you talk to them about a hundred thousand dollars, it doesn't mean anything to them. They don't feel that in their system as painful. So because it's easy for them, it's already included. They own that concept. It's re-owned. A hundred thousand dollars for you might feel like it's above your head. (1:08:34)

It's like over your head, right? Does that make sense? Whereas for them a hundred thousand dollars feels like owned, feels like internalized, feels like integrated, feels like easy, feels like under their control. It doesn't own them. A hundred thousand dollars might own you. Oh would you do this for a hundred thousand dollars? Would you lick something dirty for a hundred thousand dollars? Well it's a hundred thousand dollars, so yeah I would lick that piece of shit for sure. (1:08:59)

And a rich, truly rich person would be like, what? No I'm worth more than that. What? A hundred thousand dollars? Would I lick shit? No of course not. Why would I do that? A hundred thousand dollars is owned. It's already theirs. So the bigger you make a certain topic, the harder it is to achieve. (1:09:15)

So you need to start thinking of money in very easy ways. And there's all kinds of practices you could come up with intuitively to do this. But basically you want to start to feel free when you're spending. Doesn't mean you have to become inefficient and start spending all your money. But it does mean that what you do spend, you start to build a really easy relationship with. (1:09:41)

So that you feel like, oh this is like only 10% of what I will make today anyway. This is only 1% of what I'll make today anyway. This $500 trip to wherever, oh that's only like 5% of what I'll make today anyway. Like you want to build up those fictitious imaginary experiences for yourself. So that you can actually downplay the importance of money. (1:10:06)

And start wrapping it into a different, in a different context, a different meaning. And then the money thing will become easier and easier. And you'll just have it when you need it. Or when you want it. Or even when you don't need or want it. You'll just have it. Because it's easy. (1:10:24)

It's owned. Yes. But the same goes for anything. Not just money. The same goes for any experience. If you play something on a pedestal, you will not be able to reach it. If you feel that it's already achieved, you'll have it. My experience, thank you, is that I have for years explored this game in consciousness around money and the natural abundance of life for a long time. (1:10:47)

And I am very abundant in what I attract in all kinds of ways or magical experiences. And all needs have been met, beautifully. Except for the actual fat amount of cash in a purse or something. (1:11:01)

Well, but again, like right now, you're again creating a focal point. Yeah, it's not something I usually allow myself to do. You're affirming that it's except for a big, fat piece of cash. I know. It's because I've given myself permission in this particular encounter to actually say, hey, let's get right in here. Because in general, it's not a topic that, Hugh knows, I've got really quite a strong focus on just the minimizing all language, all focus. (1:11:29)

I've got a really quick ability to take my attention off a manifestation or a lack of manifestation, just move towards pleasure and so forth. But what's been interesting... Why do you want the money? My greatest inspiration at the moment is simply the freedom to travel. I have a nine and ten year old little boy. I want to see them surfing in Hawaii. I want to get out and play with them. (1:11:51)

Good, that's good. So that's a good reason. It resonates, it's exciting. So then I don't see what the problem is. Well, there probably isn't one. We're about to launch our coaching course next month and we feel pretty excited about what we're delivering. That's one reason, but it can come in many ways. You just have to start traveling. Basically, you have to start spending. (1:12:11)

Right. Oh, that's not a problem. But you have to start spending within the alignment of what you want to actually do. You need to start spending on something that's actually super excited to you, that you feel has the potential to need or generate money, such as going on trips and giving your kids experiences. (1:12:34)

I'm not exactly sure what you just said, but traveling. You have to start traveling and invest in that experience, invest in that lifestyle and believe that somehow money will show up. And it will. And downplay, minimize the charge that you've placed on it, and it'll be easier and easier. But just focus on, no, I can absolutely do this. I can absolutely travel. I can travel. (1:12:56)

I can travel. I can travel. And I can make money. I can have all kinds of money come to me in all kinds of ways. Ways that I don't even know of. Ways I could never conceive of. It can come to me easily and effortlessly in the most weird possible ways. Beautiful. Thank you. (1:13:19)

Thank you very much. Hi. And again, if anyone wants to sit here, you're free to. I'm scared. So I'm wondering if I'm doing that thing that that lady was talking about, about putting money on a pedestal. I'm wondering if I'm doing that with love. Because With love or relationships? Well, intuitively I think that I'm, my purpose, the relevance of my life here in this 3D reality, is to learn lessons around love. (1:13:56)

Yeah. Love or relationships? I don't know. It feels a bit more expansive than relationships. So I think there's some work to be done around loving myself as well. And it's something around unconditional love. (1:14:09)

But I do want to have that experience of, you know, what this couple were talking about twin flames and unity. I'm like, wow, that would be so awesome. And I've thought about that and I'd really love to invite that in my life. And I've thought that would be so amazing to manifest that. But it's, I wonder if I want it so much. (1:14:35)

Because it's never, it's never come to me. Oh but but do you see what you're saying there? It has never come to me. That's a focal point. That's a focus that completely exposes right now what you believe is true. And so it also shows you why you're attracting a lack of it. (1:14:55)

It's because you believe it has never come to you. So that's the story you tell yourself. That's the vibration that you have. That's the attitude that you have. If that's your attitude, that's what you'll see. That's what you'll get. So how do I change that? You tell me. Well I don't know, intuitively I think maybe I should start with myself. Good. Learn to love myself unconditionally. But what does that mean? Just to believe that I am lovable. (1:15:25)

Yeah. I'm worthy of being loved by someone. And I don't know really whether I should be starting to look at myself. Whether that's the starting point. Looking in within. And how do I do that? What does that look like? Well do you see you're loved? By creation. I know that I am. Cognitively I know that. (1:16:07)

But are you not here? Do you not exist? Yes. Then how can you argue? I don't argue with it. But how can you believe you're not loved if you exist? Yeah. But I don't feel it. Well but that's just a statement. I can't feel it. Can you see that you can't feel it? If your focus point is I can't feel this, then you won't feel it. (1:16:26)

If your focus point becomes I can feel it, then suddenly you feel it. Nothing changed except what you told yourself. Shouldn't it be a feeling? First it's a story. Right. First it's an attitude. Then it becomes a feeling. You can't feel what you're telling yourself you can't feel. So the thought is before the feeling? The statement is before the feeling. The thought is before the feeling, yes. So if my statement is I am lovable? (1:16:54)

Uh-huh. That starts to open up the vibrational gateway to then attract the experience of love. Right. But what if I don't, what if there's some part of me that doesn't totally believe that? Then you pinpoint the belief. And you show the belief that it's not true. See that the belief itself is made out of love, out of light, out of consciousness, out of existence. (1:17:21)

And that it's all love. It's all made out of love. This is all for the love of the Creator, by the love of the Creator existing as the love of the Creator. There's no separation. Everything that exists is meant to be here, is desired to be here, is loved as it is here. So what do you suggest I do then? Sort of meditate on that concept. (1:17:46)

I'm not quite sure. Yes, you could. You can just see it, feel it, be it. What would it look like to be loved? See it until you feel it. And when you feel it, you start to act like it, behave like it, and believe in it. And then you become it. (1:17:56)

So imagine it first. Yes. And if I do that for long enough, I can feel it. Yeah, if you do it true enough, you will start to feel it. And then it has to manifest. It has to. Because you are vibrationally creating your reality. You are shaping your dream. Yeah. When you put a certain current or vibration through what we see as matter, which is nothing but energy, it will align itself and configure itself in such a way that it will take on the shape of the vibration that you exude. So if you exude the vibration of I am loved, and you start to feel that, and be it, and behave as if, then life has no option but to give that to you. (1:18:49)

Because technically speaking, creation as you know it, does not have a will of its own. People often believe that creation has a will of its own, and we're just sort of walking around that wheel, dealing with it. But in reality, nothing has a will of its own except for consciousness, or you. So you, you decide what reality becomes. (1:19:09)

And it always becomes whatever you say it becomes. Whatever you say it is, it becomes. So start saying things differently. Start opening that vibrational gateway in a different way. Start tuning your frequency differently. And sometimes it can be as simple as changing a story in your head. That might be the start of it. Yes. Imagine it. See it, feel it, be it. (1:19:36)

Okay, thank you. You're welcome. I'd just like to affirm that what you've just said has really worked. I guess it was what, two and a half, three years ago, you just put forward the idea that it's already accepted, that God has, if you want to call it, God has already completely accepted absolutely everything. (1:19:57)

And I just got off my case. You know, after God knows how many years of nitpicking and trying to berate myself to enlightenment, as some people say, you know, just correcting this, oh I shouldn't have that, you know. And it's, it's all just opened up. And I can't really say quite how it happened, but it was just something like you've just said really. (1:20:11)

It just, the penny dropped. And it's, but it feels like something's flowing, but it's a gradual change perhaps. But something fundamentally has changed. And I'm no longer looking outside for love. There's something habitual in that, but essentially it's coming from inside now. And it's opening up other things that I would never have dreamt of. (1:20:39)

It's like there's, there's love or a sense of expansion, like Aja was talking about, of just letting everything grow that's just coming from higher. Beautiful. Yeah. Thank you. No, thank you. My pleasure. Yeah. And I guess that leads into the other question. It's, I've still, it's like where my passion seems to be is now feeling where that love is coming from, from that other place in a sense of different, you know, it's not this worldly things. (1:21:13)

Like somewhere, even as a kid, I've had a sense of being frustrated with how cumbersome and slow creativity is on this plane. And like I'm getting echoes of a memory of where you just think it into existence. It's like creation is immediate and limitless and so free. (1:21:26)

And that is just so exciting. It can become almost like that here. Well, that was the, that was the question really, because part of me can think, oh, so am I still actually avoiding this life in some way? Because I've done a lot of that, avoiding or not taking risks or whatever, or living small. But on this other plane, it's like, well then, then things getting really big. (1:21:48)

But it does, then that help open up the whole lot such that it then can happen here as well. Yes. Right. Yeah. Because I'm also looking for sort of proof. Because if I'm sort of seem to be... First focus on the proof you've already been given. Yeah. Right. The confirmations you've already received as to that this does work, even if it's incremental steps. (1:22:11)

And the more you focus on how it already works, it will start to work even better and bigger, because you're emphasizing how it already works. So again, the vibrational attitude focus thing, building that relationship. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I just wanted to say it. Yeah. I appreciate that. Yes. Very cool. Thank you. Yes. Any more questions right now? Before the break? Are we taking a break? In a little bit. (1:22:37)

I mean, there's no rush. It can be five minutes from now, it can be 20 minutes from now. Cool. So I'm kind of curious about this timeline of growth and expansion. I see you as way ahead of kind of everyone. And I've heard you talk about before mastery is kind of like what we're all doing right now. (1:23:09)

It's like before we get to this ultimate, transparent, transcendent state, and then there's after, which is like where you were at. And now you're sort of going back through the loop and putting yourself in these bubbles where you experience life the way we are experiencing life, like things you're suffering. And so I kind of, I'm curious about how, it's the same thing though, right? Like you're still, it's the same, the guidance system is the same. (1:23:30)

You're still following what feels good and following your resonance and following your alignment. But now what feels good is putting yourself into a super shitty situation that feels really bad, right? But it feels good to you. It's what I want, yes. And you don't question that. So it's not, so I remember you were just, you were just saying how there's like some discipline required or there's like you need to persevere, you need to, do you actually need to do anything except for feel good? In general, no. (1:24:13)

Feel the, sorry, follow the feeling good and become the feeling good and be the focus of feeling good, because it will open you up to everything you desire, whether that's of the nature of self-realization or the nature of self-actualization. Everything comes to you through vibrational receptivity and vibrational exuberance or exuding. So it is through that vibrational attitude of goodness, feeling good. (1:24:35)

And you always feel good when you're thinking in ways, when you're seeing in expanded ways that are in alignment with the way your higher consciousness already sees these concepts. That's when we feel good, is when we're closer in alignment with our true vibration. So absolutely, feeling good is your compass guide. The stuff I'm doing is, it's not a general advice for how to live life. (1:25:04)

Yet. Yet, yes, and for some people that just never becomes relevant. It's more of a, those that are of a teacher nature, it's gonna be more relevant for some. For most people it's not necessarily very relevant. Possibly, yeah. In different ways it could be. Like on their, in the scale of their own personal lives it can be, in a way, relevant to at least know about this type of stuff. (1:25:28)

And I feel like I haven't really addressed even how this kind of works. But yeah, just given the gist of it in the beginning of the interview. (1:25:35)

But it's not, it's not like what I would say, you know, summarize your teaching. That's not what I would say. Because it's not that relevant. What's relevant is to follow your resonance and to be in alignment as often as you can. By changing the way you see things until you feel good. And by acting on the things that feel like they contain the greatest degree of that passion and excitement and resonance. (1:26:01)

Because those are the things that will naturally and organically and effortlessly lead you into more of yourself. Both self-realization and self-actualization. So we're gonna take about a ten minute break. Sounds good. People watching at home, any invitations or suggestions how they can just go and make tea and go to the loo. But I don't know if you've got anything you want them to kind of sit with or reflect on in the time. (1:26:35)

Yeah, I'd love for them to ask themselves, how can I prioritize my life that much more? How can I prioritize what's truly important for me? How can I, in a sense, download information that feels truly crucial? Like it's aligning my free will because of my humble receptivity to asking that question. And how can I align my personal frequencies and attitude and realizations with that which is truly why I am here? Why are you here? Why are you here? What do you want to do? What do you want to be? What do you want to achieve? What do you want to become? Who do you want to be vibrationally as a quality of consciousness? What do you want to realize? What's truly important to you and how can you get rid of 80% of your life as it is? You'd be surprised. (1:27:21)

And still end up with the 20%, but make that your 100%. That's actually important to you. And that's when the acceleration starts to happen. And then you can ask yourself that again a couple of months after having done that now. And then again you can take the 20%. That's now the core of what's most important to you. Get rid of the 80% radically. That's not really crucial. And then make that 20% your 100% again. (1:27:41)

And so you keep accelerating and you keep becoming a more fine-tuned beacon of crystallized intentionality. And then everything accelerates and you become more humble while also more powerful at the same time. Nice. All right. In 10 minutes. You wanted to raise the vibration, right? So for you guys watching, we'll be back in about 10 minutes. There'll be a countdown clock on screen so you can see when we're restarting. (1:28:15)

And another little suggestion is it can be tempting to go off and kind of, you know, get busy, get whatever, and just kind of use the time as if you would if you were here. Just maybe keep some space kind of within what we're doing. And also a reminder that you can post questions below the video. So if anything that Bentino has said or any questions that have been inspired, feel free to post them. (1:28:36)

And in the last 20, 25 minutes or so, I will come out and ask the questions that you guys have posted. (1:28:40)

So we'll see you again in about 10 minutes time. And whenever you guys... So welcome back. And we're going to continue in the Q&A format for about another hour or so. And then I'm going to put to Bentino the questions that you guys are posting below this video. So a little tip, it's always good to post the questions sooner rather than later, because I spend a bit of time now just kind of looking through the questions. (1:39:56)

Sometimes they come last minute and it's not so easy to bring them in. So it's just a little kind of reminder. But I'll hand back to Bentino. So I just asked you to come up here because I always appreciate your inquisitiveness and that you ask the right questions and take things in depth. So like even a friendly conversation with you always ends up being going somewhere profound. So it's pretty cool. (1:40:26)

So do you have any questions or curiosities? Yeah. So right now, the most still just from my question before, I'm still kind of curious about this is the kind of structurally speaking, like what is like the timeline of it? Like first you're kind of pursuing or you're reaching mastery. I don't know if you would call it mastery, but like transcendence, like you said that your consciousness is completely transparent. (1:40:55)

And then you kind of come back through. And then I'm also, I was just having a conversation, kind of curious how that like parallels with the densities. So you've got, it's like you've got a growing, growing, but then is that fourth density going into fifth or have you already reached seventh and you're coming back through? It's very hard to describe this because it's, you kind of have to make a difference between physicalized or crystallized experience and intuitive experience in order to answer that question. (1:41:38)

So just very briefly, the different densities that she refers to is the different densities of evolution. So different densities of vibration, different densities of life itself, each higher density of the evolution of our universe, so to speak, has a greater density of love and light infused in each, say, cubic square inch, so to speak. (1:42:08)

So the higher the density, the more filled to the brim the substance of this illusion, the substance of this dream reality, this manifest reality becomes. It becomes denser with love, light, and life itself, so to speak, with consciousness. Denser with consciousness, you could say. So in general, I say there are seven densities that together form a complete cycle of a universe, of a creation. (1:42:31)

Right now planet Earth, and you've maybe heard this in new agey circles, is going through transformational age where its actual matter is bumping up its density, its frequency, from what we could call third density to fourth density, or from the density to self of self-consciousness, third density, where we teach ourselves self-consciousness, I am, to the density of love and understanding and interconnectedness and compassion and transparency and telepathy and all that. (1:43:00)

So that's what we're moving into as a civilization. We're now an early fourth density civilization, and so there's certain differences in that compared to third density. But to get back to your question, in terms of my own personal journey, you mean? (1:43:15)

Yeah. As I gain new realizations, or as I gain deeper transparency of consciousness, how does that relate to the different densities, even though I'm here physically in third slash fourth density? Right, and I mean haven't you kind of talked about how before, like when you had that edge experience, where it was almost like if the rest of the consciousness, like that was kind of like you'd reached, I don't know, sixth, seventh? So my experience, like I described of, so I am the being in this life that I am, which is the culmination of, or the collection of, or the combination of everything that I've realized and remembered from the point of view of this life. (1:43:53)

Right, so that's my individual self at this point in this life. That's who I am authentically. Within that, I have certain bubble periods, so that I learn certain things within which I'm more confined to limitation. Now if you forget about that for a second, but take that up one notch, meaning that this life, even though it is realized as it is, is still just a bubble reality as part of a higher overarching beingness or consciousness. (1:44:23)

Now that consciousness itself has traveled through a lot of these densities, has learned a lot throughout all of these densities. So at that level, which I am attuned to, this is kind of subtle differences, but I as the individual of this life, let's just call it Bentinho. Bentinho has a higher self. Comparatively, Bentinho is also still a bubble accepting certain limitations. Even though comparatively to the bubbles I create within my Bentinho's reality, those are even more limited emotionally, mentally. (1:44:52)

But I'm limited also, quote unquote, realized as I am as a being here, that is also still within a bubble reality, which we call planet Earth, experienced physical human being. Now beyond that is what you'll get, you'll get into the stages or the level of what I would call the overarching being, or the soul consciousness, or the higher self. So this higher self has traveled through certain densities, has experienced a lot of these densities. And so when I realize things from this human Bentinho point of view, and they become more and more trans, my realizations or my consciousness becomes more and more transparent, and I realize more and more expanded things, that basically is a process of me from within this bubble reality, remembering beyond this bubble reality, what I'm actually like, and what I have actually already learned, and what I already know. (1:45:44)

So by having that connection be made open, by having that connection become very conscious, and very deliberate, and very intuitive, and very sensitive, my bubble has become very transparent to that. It's still within a bubble configuration, I'm still a human being, I'm still flesh and blood in a sense, just as much as anyone else, and I'm still here, and I still have limitations, and I still can't see everything. (1:46:06)

But I am transparent to that. I am very intuitively connected to that. It's a two-way street communication between myself and myself, just as I can within the other bubbles, depending on how much of that communication is relevant, and will not disrupt the bubble purpose. So there is a bubble purpose to this experience, so I don't know everything in that sense, but I am very intuitively transparent to what I am, allowing myself to know and discover. (1:46:33)

So whenever that transparency increases and increases, to answer your question, I just had to give all this context to come to your question. It's not that I, Bentinho Massaro, are of a higher density. It's that I'm very transparent to my true being, which is of a higher density. (1:46:52)

And so you could say that my sense of identity is no longer limited to, it's no longer of this world. It's no longer of third or fourth density, it's of sixth density. So in that sense, the realizations that I've been having in this life, in sort of a rapid speed, have all been remembering stage by stage, going almost as if going through the densities again, as my soul level already has for millions of years. (1:47:17)

Remembering that, catching up with that, becoming transparent to that, trying to integrate that as a human being, while also just like letting it all blow up at times, because you can't contain it really. But still trying to integrate that to the best possible degree. And so the realizations that I have are of differing vibrational levels, or natures, or densities. But I, as a being, as you sitting here, are of the same, made of the same density stuff. (1:47:42)

Like we're communicating right now within this video game world of beginning fourth density energy, matter, quantum configuration. Does that make sense? Yeah. So and then these bubbles that you put yourself in now, are like sub-bubbles? Yes. So in a sense, I am now sometimes playing higher self of my sub-personalities, that go through certain experiences. And then do you have the same control over those bubbles as your higher self has? I have here, but when I enter that, I do not. (1:48:14)

Because I enter that. Does that make sense? Yeah. So then from that perspective, I might want to leave that bubble. But I, as Mentenio Massaro, as the center point of these bubbles, will determine, because this is a higher level of free will, whether or not that's relevant. And so before I enter a bubble experience like that, occasionally I'm aware of the fact that I'm starting to do that. (1:48:34)

And I'm agreeing to that, or not agreeing to that. If I agree to that, I will lose some connection to what I am capable of here now. Because again, that's what's relevant. So you're learning, you're remembering who you are. So you're going into a bubble where you forget something, and then you are gradually re-remembering it. (1:48:54)

And then you're going to come back to how you feel now, or you're going to come back different? I'm going to come back to how I feel now, plus the added dimensionality of what I've learned from that bubble experience. So just as my overall personality, personality being that's Mentenio Massaro, is learning and expanding based on these episodes of illusion that I enter into willingly. (1:49:19)

So it's like the higher self learns as we take everything that we take from this life and extract from the journey all the benefit and the learning that we can. But you can do that on a different scale as well within this life, so to speak. (1:49:29)

So is it, so you're going to learn like a big lesson in terms of the small bubble. So in the small bubble it's going to be like some like massive lesson that's going to pop the bubble, and you're going to come back into who you are now. But for who you are now, is it just like a little incremental lesson, just like a fine-tuning lesson? It's quite significant. (1:49:48)

Right now? Otherwise it wouldn't be worth it. Because it's a lot of intensity, and it's a lot of misery, and it takes a lot of time out of my schedule. So I only do it when I feel is it really worth it to learn that lesson in that way. (1:50:06)

So have you had one this big before, since you've been this transparent? Have I had one that's as big before as the recent episode I talked with you about? Yeah. That's going on right now? Yeah. I mean it's like every single one that I have is the bigger one than the previous one in a sense. (1:50:25)

And it's kind of logical that way, because it adds to everything you already know. And so it feels even bigger again. It feels like you learn even more unconditional love again. It feels like you're torn apart into bits and spread around the universe even more than before. It feels like you don't have any point of view even more than before. (1:50:40)

So in a way it feels like this is the biggest yet. And it's adding to my quality of love and compassion to the degree that I have not before been able to tap into. So it's definitely worth it to go into those bubbles. So since I've known you, I haven't heard you talk about learning the way you're talking about learning right now. Yes, because I don't think it's that relevant for most people. (1:51:08)

I might be wrong. To know that you're learning? Oh wait, what? No, about this, the mechanics of this. Specifically. Yeah, no, that's so I mean. Oh you've not heard me state as much that I'm learning? Right. Are you sure? I often say that I'm infinitely learning. But fine-tuning, where right now it seems like you're like another level of learning. (1:51:34)

Yeah. Learning as a separate person. Yeah. Like yeah, yeah. No, that happens. But it happens for periods, you know. It doesn't happen for periods at a time, like for months at a time sometimes. It doesn't happen at all. Sometimes half a year doesn't happen at all. But it's bound to happen at some point. Because when that does not happen for a long enough period of time, and I'm just always myself, the culmination of all my experience from this life, and I don't blind myself from that, I sort of, what happens is what started to happen. (1:52:00)

Like I said six months ago, I started to lose touch with reality. Because it's so transparent. And then it's not necessarily healthy from this point of view. I mean it's fine from a greater point of view, but it doesn't compute with this reality. And so you get certain experiences and symptoms that are signals that tell you, hey something is out of alignment. (1:52:36)

Meaning either pop out or stay here, but something has to change. You need to either lower your frequency, become more limited, or this world itself needs to change. And that's what happened in September as I see it. So it's sort of like we met halfway in a way. So you're like buying time. That's why I'm excited again. That's why I started corporation and all that stuff. (1:53:01)

That's why I am again busy, and I'm again teaching, and I'm again excited about doing this kind of stuff, and learning, and expanding as a human being, and being here. It's because as I see it, literally the vibration amplified within this dream realm that my consciousness is a part of, or choosing to be part of. (1:53:18)

So now it's more exciting to me, more as possible. I don't feel like I'm ahead as much, or like there's too much difference in the frequency. (1:53:25)

That makes sense? Getting into the metaphysical stuff here. So then once everybody has come up a notch, you can stop creating these bubbles for yourself? Maybe. I don't know. Okay. I don't know. I have a totally other question. Is that cool? Or do we have other... Any questions to this? Okay. Maybe we'll take one question of you, and then we'll go on to your question. (1:53:58)

In relation to that, a kind of reference to Christ's experience where he put himself in a position where he had to be crucified. Would that be the same thing? But he knew that he will die, or die, or not die, and then be buried, and then rise again. So is that to learn something, or to teach something? Are we good? Awesome, thanks. (1:55:00)

It is to teach the example of love, which is exactly what humanity needs, because it's going from third density into fourth density, which is going from self-consciousness and separation and understanding I am and you are, to love and connection and embracing the higher I am. Which is all what Christ was all about, the higher consciousness experience of love. So he was all heart, it was all devotion, all love, love, love. (1:55:28)

In my teachings it's very important to balance love with wisdom, and wisdom with love. Sometimes you see people that are too wisdom-oriented. They just sit in caves, and they, you know, they're the typical yogis, and they rot away their bodies, or other people feed them, or... So that's all wisdom. That's fifth density in nature. That is acting out fifth density lessons. (1:55:48)

Fourth density lessons is all about love and devotion and being of service to others. Sixth density is the culmination of both of these, and finding perfect balance and union between overly devotional nature of love, to the overly unattached nature of wisdom. So if you find a balance of these, is what we're all doing as a sense, as beings, as enlightened beings past third density. (1:56:12)

It's all about learning love, learning wisdom, and then learning the balance of both, and total transcendence, and perfection of balance and love, of love and wisdom being balanced. So the Christ was the epiphany, was the was the example of devotion, and love, and selflessness, of giving all that he could to humanity. So that was the teaching for humanity. (1:56:33)

For himself on the other side of the coin of the experience, of course he's a being too, so he learns. He's on a journey. As I know it, and as my sources indicate, he was at that time late fourth density in his own orientation, before he chose to be physically present in the way that he was. (1:56:53)

So he was exploring late fourth density, beginning fifth density lessons. In other words, how I could see this, and even if none of this is true, it's still an interesting concept to take on for a second. Because what you'll see is like, imagine he could have set something, he could have devised a plan easily that would have exonerated him from being accused of what he was accused of, etc. (1:57:21)

But he chose not to. So in that way he chose love to the degree where he terminated his bodily existence here within this plane, which eliminated him from continuing the teaching. So it was too much love from one perspective, you could say. You could say it's perfect and it's exactly what humanity needed as an example. (1:57:46)

So I'm not questioning that anything should have gone differently. But I'm saying from a more like optional point of view, you could see that if he had not had overbearing love devotion, but had already learned to balance it with wisdom, he might have actually defended himself in court or whatever the situation was. I don't know how it exactly unfolded, but he would actually have perhaps set it up in such a way to where he was not accused and he was not crucified, so that he could continue to be of service in more ways for a longer period of time. (1:58:22)

Does that make sense? It does. So it was too much love in some in some ways, you could say. It's perfect and exactly what humanity needed. But from its own point of view, what he learned from his own mistake potentially is, oh maybe I could have balanced that overbearing love and devotion and service to others with a little bit more wisdom, so that I in a more grounded and contained way could continue to serve. (1:58:44)

Maybe not as extremely all at once, but I don't have to exhaust all my all my fuels at once. I could actually have a long-lasting wisdom, love, balanced life, where I can continue to benefit people. But he was too eager in some ways. This is, you know, this is just one take on it, but that's partially as I see it. (1:59:05)

Okay, thank you. So it was both teaching and learning. It's always both teaching and learning. There is no difference. (1:59:09)

Even if someone comes from the highest understanding or density just here to teach, there is always still learning involved for that being as well. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you so much, Vintino. I never had this explanation about Christus, so I'm still processing what you just said. (1:59:39)

And when this beautiful knowledge flows through you, it seems so naturally. It seems that you have never done anything else in your life. However, at the beginning of the interview, you mentioned when you just started to shoot short videos, you experienced a little bit of fear and anxiety, but you dealt quickly with it. (2:00:02)

Yeah. I was wondering how you did this and if it came back again. And also, if someone feels very nervous, if it means that you still have a very strong sense of self, or is there other deeper issues? Maybe is it like, can it be a team in your life to deal with it? So what got me through very quickly was just to know, like I asked myself, do I want to do this or not? If so, then I'm not gonna waste time being insecure about it. (2:00:39)

I might as well just go for it and do it. So I'm a no time waster, basically, in as much as I can in what I do. So that's what helped me against setting my priorities, being humble enough to realize that I'm gonna do this anyway, so I might as well get over myself. So to have that transparency and humility to get over yourself, to kick yourself in the butt and just fucking do it, because you know you can and you know you're meant to, so just fucking do it. (2:01:05)

But that's my approach. It might not help everyone all the time to be that way, but I think people need a little bit more of that. Know what you're capable of. And I had an innate knowingness and I desired to believe in that, even if it wasn't true, I still wanted to believe that everything was possible. And I still chose to believe that I could do anything, I put my mind to, so I chose to get over myself and just do it, and just roll with it, and just trust it. (2:01:32)

So if you say that to yourself and you shift into that attitude, it will become reality. You see it, you choose it, you feel it, and you be it. There's really nothing more to it than that. Again, I use this example a lot because I think it's very powerful, but some questioner once asked another teacher by the name of Nomi, what is the end of confusion, or when is the end of confusion? Basically the questioner was wanting to know, how do I end confusion? And the teacher said, the end of confusion is when you stop conjuring it up. (2:02:02)

So it's not that confusion is a reality that's out of your control that you need to find a solution to, you simply stop confusing yourself. You stop creating it, you stop conjuring it up. So if you, but there's no end to insecurity, you don't have to go through a process, you just stop being insecure. (2:02:25)

And even if you are insecure, just choose to trust as much as you can, until there is no insecurity left, because you become familiar with that reality, or that way of being, or speaking publicly for example. Is there some sort of balance that you do it in small steps? Yes, for sure. I mean you can't take too big of a step, because it doesn't help you, you can't integrate the information. (2:02:46)

However, I think that often people downplay what they're capable of, and they take too small of a step, because they feel safer doing so. I'd rather take too big of a step, and have some problems integrating things, and take some time off to integrate it afterwards. I'd rather do that, but that is really innate to my nature, it's part of my unique drive, and it's part of why I'm here, it's part of why I do everything quickly, it's part of why I'm 27, I'm able to talk to you like this. (2:03:13)

So it's because I want to achieve a lot in this life, and so I have to have that ability, and I have to choose that way. Not everyone necessarily has to choose the fast track all the time. So sometimes there is a balance. The balance is, okay, is this actually, do I actually believe this is too much for me? Because if I actually believe this is too much for me, not just think it's too much, not just feel a little insecure or uncomfortable with it, but I actually believe that I will die if this happens, then you have to find some middle ground and either let go of that belief, transform that belief, see how it's not true, investigate it, pinpoint it, let it go, and then you'll feel that much freer to just go for it. (2:03:59)

Or if the belief seems to stay in place, you have to stretch your comfort zone a little bit, a little bit. In personal development circles, in NLP they have this diagram of three concentric circles, the center one being comfort zone, the second one being stretching zone, and the third one being panic zone. Now they say the ideal space to be in as often as you can is the stretching zone, because the more you are spending time in the stretching zone, the bigger your comfort zone is being stretched. (2:04:24)

But if you're in the panic zone, you can't integrate the data that's coming at you, because your beliefs of threat and lack are too activated to do anything helpful or useful with the information that you gain from stretching yourself too far. So yes, there is a balance point. But if you shift your attitude from I cannot to I can, then you can stretch way further than you think you can. Thank you. Thank you. (2:04:47)

Sorry, follow-up question on that one. I asked the question thinking there is more to it, and that's why I ended up sitting here, I think. But I've been trying to show up to say okay, how can I serve? And I decided, how can I serve? And I said this is what I'm gonna do. (2:05:17)

However, I have a growth issue where I have to... I can't visualize. And I feel every time... You cannot visualize? I just can't get to that visualizer. And everything I say, you have to visualize this too. You have to visualize this. I just haven't got that mindset of being in that state of mind. Can you imagine sound? Can you imagine what something would sound like? Can you imagine what something would feel like? That's the question. (2:05:58)

Could it be that my intuition is in knowing or feeling, but not just visualization? Yes, so basically it's tactile visualization. So it's not just visual visualization, it's imagination. And imagination uses all of the senses and more. So you can tap into whatever senses do work for you. Whatever do activate that connection to that imagined reality. (2:06:23)

And remember imagination is nothing but your consciousness from its presently collapsed in reality, tuning into an alternate reality that's already existent and just as real as this one. But by perceiving it from this focal point, it seems like you're imagining it. But imagination is actually you tuning into an alternate configuration of quantum energy that is actually just as real and parallel in existence to this one. (2:06:49)

So the more you imagine something, and that's why we say imagine, see it, feel it until you be it, and then it's here. It's because imagining it allows your consciousness to shift and detach from this reality and start to actually migrate its consciousness, shift its consciousness into that reality. Imagination is you interpreting something really existent from your present point of view, and from your present definition set, and from your present set of symbols that you have to interpret what you're seeing. (2:07:20)

So you're translating an actual reality in terms of what you've learned here. That's why imagination is not always accurate to the T in terms of the reality that you're remote viewing. But it can become more and more accurate as you loosen the symbols that your brain is limited to perceiving, and you start perceiving less and less through the brain and more and more directly. (2:07:43)

Imagination becomes more and more vivid, more and more real, and you can start to see things that you've never seen before in this life or have no means to see. But it's directly funneled into your brain from a different level of your consciousness, so to speak. But whenever you think of something or imagine something, you're literally tuning into an actual parallel timeline or reality. (2:08:02)

So the more time you spend worrying about not having money, the more you will have the experience of not having money. Because that's the parallel reality you attract to yourself. Now the more you imagine and visualize being whatever you want to be, like being of service in the epic way, and being you know a beautiful benefit to everyone, that is an actual reality that already exists. (2:08:21)

There's a version of you already doing that, and now you're migrating your consciousness to that experience. So only imagine the things that you desire, that are inspired to you by your higher free will. Does that make sense? It does. Thank you. Thank you. Feel free to take over at any point, Corey. I've heard the video you did on the Wanderers, and I totally get that about myself. (2:08:54)

And when you were speaking about the sixth density, and Jesus being in the fourth, and moving, needing perhaps the lessons of the fifth, I wondered, are the Wanderers those that when they awaken to it will simply be in the sixth, because that's, they've already integrated the the fourth and the fifth in other dimensions? What's your question? What did you say? I said the Wanderers, I think it's a term you used, right? (2:09:19)

Those who've come from a higher density elsewhere in the galaxy, in the cosmos, in the dimensions. I'm not quite sure what terms you use for that. But are they those who've already attained, or already play at the levels of sixth density, but have allowed themselves to forget that? No, there's Wanderers from different densities, from fourth, fifth, and sixth. (2:09:46)

Okay. So depending on what they've already explored before, that's the quality they'll bring into this life. Okay. And how can one discern which density one's exploring, and what is more required? It's kind of tricky. You can just do it intuitively, and go by it that way. You will find as your life progresses, and as your journey evolves, and as you become more transparent, and more conscious, it will become easier to indicate where you are actually oriented, by the nature of your theme, and the lessons that you continue to attract to yourself. (2:10:19)

The more of these you exhaust, and the more of these you complete, the more you'll see if you consistently get lessons of a certain nature, or if it continues to progress as you remember through the different densities of learning, and then end up with six density lessons in the end. (2:10:37)

Does that make sense? It does, it does. I believe. I want to skip to a different type of question. Sure. I've got a question. Thank you. So earlier you were talking about, so like as you move up densities, you get, there's more and more energy packed into like a square inch of space. (2:11:02)

And then I also just heard you say something about quantum science. Configuration. And so is there, so more and more energy in a given space can be like electric energy. Yes. And it could, but it could also, it can also be like the type of energy that like spiritual, I don't even know what you'd call that, emotional energy, conscious energy I guess. Yes, that's basically what I mean. (2:11:27)

The energy of consciousness, the presence of consciousness itself, of life itself. It'll be, and people can sense this already actually, sometimes it's hard to distinguish whether that is because you've become more aware of your process and of your ability to be aware of presence, or whether it's an actual shift that's happening collectively. But check in with yourself and you'll see that if you compare your experience of your environment now with say 15 years ago, you'll notice that you'll have way more experiences of feeling engulfed and bathed in the electricity of presence itself. (2:12:10)

Does that make sense? The vividness of presence itself. You feel that this experience we're having right now, and because it's gradual you might not notice it as much, so you have to look back at how your experience used to be. But you could never ever want to exchange what you have now, the clarity and the vividness of presence that you feel now with your environment of energy, of awakeness, of aliveness. (2:12:30)

It's way more than it used to be. Like literally, our civilization is already imbued with greater enlightenment than they ever were before. And this continues to lighten up. Quite literally, we are lit up much more than we used to be. With awakeness, with vibrancy, with exuding energy, with our auras, if you could see them, are actually way brighter and more vivid and more energized right now than they used to be. (2:12:57)

So is it that scientists right now are just filled with so much more energy and they're so much more excited and so much more like following their alignment so that they're discovering stuff? Or is it that actually like the energy... It's both. It's both mandatory because of the environment bumping up its frequency and becoming denser and denser with life and knowledge and intuition and clarity. (2:13:16)

Because what happens when the density of an environmental energy increases is the boundaries that are placed between two different beings or between lower self and higher self starts to disappear more and more. It starts to become thinner. The veil of forgetfulness starts to become thinner. And so the higher the density of the environment, the less you are able to create those bubble realities and separate yourself from your overall self. (2:13:44)

So that's why there is way clearer energetic communication. Also right now in comparison to 20 years ago, everybody, regardless of their level of consciousness, is actually way more sensitive to everybody else's energies and everybody else's emotional state. It becomes very hard these days to hide what you're thinking and feeling from anyone else. Whether they're psychic or not doesn't even really matter anymore. (2:14:11)

Everyone is becoming psychic because of the very fact that the vibration of the environment, of the space-time illusion that we create within our consensus collective consciousness, is actually increasing itself to the point where those layers of veiling ourselves from the rest of creation no longer can maintain themselves. Those are part of a lower frequency thing. (2:14:36)

But there is no walls in fourth density living. And so transparency and telepathy will be natural at some point to everyone. Everyone will be naturally psychic. So when do you think you're gonna be able to like have a conversation on a panel with like you know what's his name the Tesla dude Elon Musk Elon Musk and and next year next year where it's like where it's recognized where there's no more gap between spirituality and science where it's actually just like oh that's how it all that's how it all comes together I thought you were asking when I'll have a conversation with them no but I mean I think about like what's it there's I mean I feel like everywhere you can see that like frequency is the thing that we're talking about and that applies Consciousness stuff and it applies to science. So when is it all just going to coalesce? (2:15:22)

When it's recognized as being in harmony with each other, like both science and technology as well as spirituality. Different degrees of it, there's different stages of it, but in a sense I would say it has already begun. But the the practical actual technological application of it hasn't fully been implemented yet in a way that's publicly known. It hasn't been implemented for a long time and applied by human beings for the past 50, 60 years. (2:15:54)

Things have already been achieved that we don't have any knowledge of. But in terms of where it's publicly acknowledged and it is accepted by the collective that technology and spirit or consciousness can interface with each other, it'll be about 10 years before we'll really accept that as normal and have applied that to all kinds of devices. But not much longer than that at all. (2:16:19)

It will start to actually show up in terms of man-made products within the next two to five years. Like what? Like calling someone with your mind or free energy devices, anti-gravity devices. Is the free energy device just like... so there's so much more energy in the square inch of space right here. Free energy devices can be created pretty much in any density so to speak. (2:16:51)

It's not dependent upon this growth. If there is an intuitive enough person they can create it from a completely dense third density reality. So that's not really, doesn't really matter. Regardless of the density you can learn to tap into the field of infinite energy and there's no end to it. You don't have to wait for the environment to bump up its density of life or aliveness or consciousness in order to be able to tap that energy. (2:17:21)

Because it's always infinite. Because you're tapping into something from beyond this density anyway when you do that. So it doesn't matter what density the device is created out of. You're tapping into non-physical trans-dimensional realities or energy. Disclosure, that's the term that's used about being invited into the broader galactic environment. (2:17:46)

This meeting is going in all kinds of directions. I know it has in that. But I mean one thing that's gonna obviously accelerate that process that you're talking about is when the aliens or they that have been here all along unveil themselves and say well you know we are your galactic brothers. Alex what is your audience like? So that's going to accelerate that process. (2:18:14)

When do you mean it's been told that's going to happen for quite a few years back. Is that going to happen imminently? What exactly? What event? The event that the flying saucer in a sense lands on the lawn of the Pentagon and someone comes out and says I am you know as it was perceived back in the fifties that I am your galactic brother and welcome to the galactic federation. Within the next 10 to 20 years. So not imminently. (2:18:44)

Not soon. You will start to see all kinds of signs before that but when we're talking about true completely open public acknowledged contact 10 to 20 years which is pretty imminently on the scale of galactic events. One other question. Interested in the hierarchy that you talked about of our higher beings and obviously going all the way up to the infinite conscious itself. Have we been all on a sacred journey of many many lives of reincarnation across time and we keep reincarnating and we keep learning and we keep growing. (2:19:27)

Are we differentiated into some higher being itself that constantly keeps an identity at that level. Yes until seven density is reached and then it too becomes everything that there is. So that's the end of the soul. That's the end of the soul journey within itself. Okay. Doesn't mean existence or the doesn't mean the existence of that being ends but it means that the existence of that being merges with the existence of all that there is simultaneously so you become the awareness of all of creation of all parallel realities of all that there can possibly be. (2:20:06)

And then after a timeless amount of infinite time you will re-emerge into a new kind of creation altogether. Okay so seventh density is kind of where we're all heading to. It is an infinite journey so it's hard to say where we're headed. From third density we're headed to fourth density from fourth to fifth. (2:20:24)

From a broader point of view you could say at any point from the first we're trying to get to the seventh but from the seventh point of view you're headed yet somewhere else. Right. There is no end. We're not headed anywhere. Yeah. Okay. We're infinite. Yeah. The exploring the infinite as the infinite. Okay. Great. Thank you. Thank you. I have another like tangent question. (2:20:56)

Go for it. Okay. So organizations and I know you're... I love how we're shifting from like the weirdest things to like the most concrete things. This is cool. So you're starting an organization. Yes. And I mean I know there's a lot of hype in startup world right now. Google and Facebook are just about sort of what makes a an organization thrive right now. (2:21:18)

Like what makes a sustainable or better than sustainable thriving organization right now. And I've kind of noticed a trend in that it's agile and adaptable and like changes the new normal and it's like this lean theory. And one of like good UX taking care of people investing in the quality of life of people and users etc. (2:21:43)

But I also think that that's probably just like scratching the surface of what you have in mind for like the organization of the future. And so like what if you were to advise if you're on like Google's advisory board or how would you like shift that? I would quit the advisory board on Google. I would start my own company which I did. (2:22:05)

So we're creating the conscious Google basically. And like so what are the characteristics of the company of the future that's gonna crush it in the future? Harmony, honesty, transparency, integrity for the benefit of all. Leaving your problems at home as soon as you enter the office. Realizing that whatever you're doing at the at the company is not about you, it's about everyone else. (2:22:34)

Being hooked into all the employees, being hooked into a higher vision that applies to more than just their own lives. Just wanting to create happiness for everyone basically. That's the attitude that drives a company like that. And so self transcendence, transpersonal attitude. What are some of the characteristics? It's pretty early on in the game for me with this so I can't be as concrete about this but I'm sure I'll be able to talk more about that in the future. (2:23:08)

If you have specific questions as to what are the qualities of that? I guess kind of I was thinking about like job roles in particular and then also like HR like the purpose of so there's like a whole department usually dedicated to the quality of life of the people. And I also know within HR there's like this you've got to be politically correct I guess for lack of a better word or else you you know you could be I mean you can be fired for harassment or whatever kind of these taboos. So the way I see it is that the HR would no longer need a division. It would not be its own division it just be integrated into everyone. Like everyone would be transparent towards each other. (2:24:05)

There's not a lot of isolation within the company meaning that if you give someone say responsibility for just one aspect of the company and you say okay this is your domain just get this done and whatever. You basically dull down their potential. They do not become who they can become and they will only feel responsible for the end result of that. (2:24:26)

But if you have everyone feel responsible for the end result of the vision of the company now everyone is running around seeing how they can be of benefit and give tips to the other guy that has a different domain. So people from different domains have actually advised or not advised but share feedback with everyone from the company because everyone now taps into that higher vision and so they become excited about the overall vision and getting that done. (2:24:53)

So they start thinking outside the box. Basically everyone becomes a Steve Jobs instead of just having a Steve Jobs at the top like being fed up with all these people working so slowly and not having any vision and like having to shout at them. In this way it comes from the bottom up and everyone can find their inner Steve Jobs to the best of their ability. (2:25:14)

And if you have a company that's based on that principle I think you can get a lot of stuff done because now everyone in a sense has the visionary sense of responsibility of the CEO of the company and so that is much more inspiring and intrinsically driven in that way. Everyone cares about the end result. You make everyone responsible for the end result not just one aspect of the end result. (2:25:39)

So now everyone starts contributing that way. I forgot what your question was. I think you answered it. What is the end? What is the vision, the end result? For which company? Yours. It is... let's see if I want to say this. One second. I'll say this much which is to have an entirely a 100% enlightened civilization that's thriving and enjoying well-being on all levels of experience in 20 years from now. (2:26:26)

So 2035. By the end of 2035 we'll have a 100% awakened civilization. Doesn't mean everyone is a full Buddha but everyone is awakened and living in harmony and connection with the rest and all. And that is reflected in technology, in health care, in products that we use, in gadgets that we use. It's reflected in education, in schooling, in spiritual teachings, in communities, how we live, etc. 20 years and I'll retire. (2:26:59)

Followed the teaching for a while and there's a particular word that sticks out for me and that's arrogance. That sticks out for you? Sorry? Did you say... Sticks out for me. It's sort of like it's... it flags up because I know. You see all the words. I'm guilty of that. Yeah, there's a lot that I've learned to accept about myself and experimenting with loving and whatever else. (2:27:34)

But arrogance seems to be the one thing that you nail as being wrong. Obviously you don't but that's somehow how it's registered here. And it seems that's the sort of... arrogance is what's going to get in the way of the business. And so... I don't think so. (2:27:48)

Well, arrogance. But I think that often... I think it's arrogant to be afraid to be arrogant. You know what I mean? Often, especially these days, people that are motivated to work on something bigger than just themselves and that work as part of organizations that have as a vision something bigger than just their own circumstances. (2:28:10)

You're naturally tuned into seeking for what's the best answer for the whole. And when you find something like that, it is your job to step up and deliver that to the rest of the people in that group. And that's not arrogant in any way. Maybe this is not the type of example you mean. Well it's interesting because yeah you've just flipped it into something that I can see as a positive. (2:28:32)

It's more the feeling something's wrong and then stubbornly wanting to be right rather than... So it's basically a form of suppression, right? Yeah, yeah. And that doesn't feel good, does it? No. Then it must not be true. Indeed. Otherwise it would feel great to suppress yourself. Yeah. But it doesn't. No. Because Higher Self is letting you know there's something wrong with your thinking. Yes. Now, there's nothing wrong with the initial impulse that you wanted to share. (2:28:58)

What's wrong is that you label that as arrogance. Right. The reason people become arrogant is because they're in a suppressed state but they still let out a few words. You know what I mean? Then you come across as arrogant. Then you actually are arrogant because now it has become personal. So if I suppress myself and what I know is true in that moment and what I want to express to the group but I go like... I get so frustrated with my own suppression that I snap at people in an arrogant way and say like I know better than you do. (2:29:20)

For example, then it comes out as arrogance. Yeah. But not because I don't know what I'm talking about but because I tried to suppress it but I didn't. So either fucking suppress it all the way and just don't open your mouth and just be still and know that you're God. Yes. Or step out, own what you know and bring it in with as much love and clarity and alignment as you can. (2:29:42)

But you will because you enjoy so much the fact that you did not suppress yourself that you'll now be able to see oh this is just another piece of the information that I'm contributing. If it's not accepted by the group, that's okay. At least I feel good about having delivered the message and being in alignment with myself. Arrogance is the result of suppressing yourself. (2:30:03)

That's the irony. So you need to no longer call yourself arrogant. Just go for it. Just be who you are. Be arrogant for a while so that you can embody those energies, integrate those negative definitions, make them transparent, clear them out, empty yourself out and then you won't be arrogant. You'll simply be very clear. And sometimes that looks as being quiet and sometimes that looks as being really directive. (2:30:25)

But sometimes that's the best thing to do. To be really directive and decisive. (2:30:28)

It's the suppression thing and then going into sort of... It's the suppression thing that I tended to do because you know doubt comes in and then I don't say anything and then I withdraw. Yeah so doubt comes in and you go like... Just ignore it. Ignore it. Keep your eye on the ball. What's important? Just do it. Believe that you can. (2:30:54)

Believe that you can. It doesn't matter if you stumble over your words while you try it. At least you've tried it. And then you keep trying it and you keep trying it and you start defining it more and more positively. Define it more and more positively. Define it more and more holistically and positively and feel better and better about sharing who you are. And then at some point the insecurity starts to fall away. (2:31:13)

It's practice. It's training. But you can't get there from suppression. You need to step out of it a little bit, a little bit, a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more. And at some point you'll look back one year from now and you're like, oh I used to have so much trouble doing just this and now look what I'm doing every single day. (2:31:29)

And it's no longer feels like a struggle. It feels easy. And there's no arrogance in it. I'm just blowing. I'm contributing. I'm being honest and having integrity and being of service. And it's great. And I'm being confident and I'm appearing as if I know what I'm talking about. Which is great. It's not arrogant. Yeah. And oftentimes you might actually know what you're talking about and make the right moves. (2:31:51)

Yes. That's great. Yeah. I mean I can see that happening in me a bit already. So it's epic. Well yeah. And you'll make more and more the right choices and you'll express yourself more and more freely. And also just being easier with people, particularly strangers. It's like yeah I'm way easier. So everything's moving in the right direction. But yeah. The arrogant thing. I don't know. (2:32:12)

It's just like you've been. Yeah. Now you've said it. That's great. Thank you. One of the things I've heard you talk about a lot, Bantino, is follow the breadcrumb trail of excitement. What if you don't feel excited about anything? What I'm experiencing at the moment is, like you, I've always felt like I can do anything. I've always believed that I can do anything. And I've created a good life, comfortable life. (2:32:48)

You know I've got the things that I need. I've created a successful business. I've got my health. I've got fabulous friends around me. Apart from the love thing I mentioned earlier, of course. But you know in terms of, I think what I'm getting at is I think something around purpose. Now I'm kind of at the point where I'm kind of like, oh right, okay. (2:33:17)

What else do I need? And there's something around purpose for me. What direction do I want to be pulled in next? And I feel like I'm receptive to those answers and I want those answers. But I'm not. I'm just in this really, well not uncomfortable space, very calm space, very still space, happy. But there's no excitement. (2:33:43)

Well then you haven't pinpointed the thing that excites you yet, at this point, at this timing. How do I find that? Ask yourself the question. I have asked myself the question. What excites me? What would be exciting? Pardon? What would be exciting to you? Think outside the box. Sometimes we assume limitations that are not real and it dulls our ability to envision what we desire. (2:34:13)

But if there were no limitations, what is the highest you desire? And then make that happen. It needs to come from outside your box. It's not going to be truly thrilling if it's not inspired from outside of the box of what you believe is possible. It always has to appear slightly impossible to you. Otherwise it's not worth chasing after. But it has to be realistic. (2:34:39)

No. Well I mean I can't, you know, I can't have, you know, dinner with the Galactic Collective, Galactic Federation that somebody mentioned earlier, next week. Although it'd be great, I'd love to do that. But you know, I can't do that. Ah, well then of course you're not excited. Because you know what you want. You just told me exactly what you want and you say it's not possible. (2:35:01)

Then of course you're dulled down. Of course you don't feel excited. It's because the very thing that's waiting for you to embrace, you say no to that. And then you're waiting for other excitements. But they don't come because they don't excite you. What excites you? Say it again. What excites you? What excites me? Say it again. What excites you? What would be the most exciting? I just keep drawing a blank. (2:35:35)

Yeah because you're limiting yourself. If everything was possible, what would you be doing right now? You told me a minute ago. But you said it can't happen next week. What was that? Well you know, meeting other people that I could co-create with and be inspired by and inspire in return and just feel connected to something or something larger than me. (2:36:25)

Uh-huh, good. Such as? What are some examples your imagination comes up with when you don't dull it down with limitation? Don't make it hard. Just say it. I think I'm finding it hard to see it. See it. Stop saying it's not possible and you'll see it. If everything was possible, if you were not you, you were not limited by everything you know. (2:36:56)

Not by money, not by your body, not by the way you look, not by who you are. I'm traveling through space. You're traveling through space. There you go. Doesn't that seem exciting? Yes and I'm not in my body. I am a ball of white energy. There you go. I can go anywhere I want. There you go. I can experience anything I want. Excellent. Have you ever looked into astral projection? I have done that. Is that exciting to you? Yes and I did manage to have... Do you have a book that explains it? (2:37:26)

Talks about it? That exposes you to that reality more and that triggers your imagination to activate that possibility for yourself? I currently don't. I did have a book which I used and somewhere along the line of life. I don't know where that went. Buy the top three books that are on this topic. (2:37:46)

The most acknowledged books and just continue to read them and practice. Right. Huh? I'm just wondering how that connects me to other like-minded souls. Well you will find out. But you can't find out from this frequency. You need to first be as excited as you can be and be in your joy and practice what you want to do. (2:38:11)

And then you will naturally attract beings that are already playing around there waiting for you right now. But you're like no can't do it. They're like looking down from up there wherever there is. You know like well come on. Come out to play. No can't. Can't do right now. I'm too limited. (2:38:31)

Can't do this. Start believing in what you actually want to do. Don't put limitations on it. It has to be. Otherwise it's not going to excite you. And is that gonna is that will that change my reality? Of course it will. It will change your limitations altogether. And that will pull me into directions that I can't even imagine. (2:38:56)

That you can't even imagine right now exactly because you're not in the frequency where you have access to these thoughts or people or beings. You can't access the things you want and the possibilities and the means to the end. You first need to be in the end before the means show up to be there. But then you're already there. There's no means to an end. (2:39:16)

There's only ends first and then the means show up as a result of being in the frequency of the end result. So you won't find the people that will lead you to that state. You've got to be in that state and then you'll find the people that are already part of that state. Thank you. (2:39:33)

Thank you. You're looking at it from limitation, from linearity, from first this and then that. You've got to look at it from what excites me the most to taking one step at a time to actually get there. But keep in mind the end result. See, feel and be the end result. Yes, that message has come back to me again. See, feel it, be it. Okay, thank you. (2:39:50)

Thank you. Thank you, Corey. Appreciate it. Thank you guys very much. So far we have some questions, quite a lot of questions. So I've been trying to kind of pick out the ones that... I'll try to be fast. Yeah, exactly. Quickfire questions, right? Yes, quickfire questions. High information. Actually, the next question, it kind of follows on from the question just now in a slightly different track. (2:40:25)

I can't quite pronounce the guy. I think it's a different version of Gregory. It's a question from his 15-year-old daughter, which I thought was quite cool. And she'd like to know... From her? From his daughter, yeah. She was at your event this afternoon, didn't feel, felt shy to come and ask you the question. (2:40:43)

So she's put it through here, which is how to know which excitement to follow. She's currently choosing which college she wants to go to and cannot decide what excites her most because she feels the same level of passion for everything she's considered. (2:40:51)

If you're sure it's the same level of excitement for each of these options, it doesn't matter which one she picks. She has to follow what contains the most amount of excitement. So just make sure that there is no difference, or that there is, and if there is, choose the one that's most exciting. So get clear on the definitions that might be dulling down one of the options. (2:41:14)

For example, let's say there's three schools and they all seem equally as exciting, but about one of them you might believe it's a little far out of the neighborhood, for example. That's a negative definition that will dull down the level of excitement that you're able to perceive in that option. (2:41:33)

As soon as she gets rid of that judgment, suddenly she notices that one is actually way more exciting, but she dulled it down by believing it's too far away from home. So if she can get rid of the definitions that she has about these schools and just tune into each of them, imagine being at each of them, she will find a difference in excitement levels. (2:41:49)

If she truly does not, it doesn't make a difference. And also, I guess we get caught up in there being a right and a wrong decision, right? Sometimes it's better to make a decision than it is to overthink something and kind of weigh it up and just... I totally agree. I sometimes wish I was 15 years old again and you could just be free, right? You could just do what you want to do. (2:42:10)

There's not one time in life to do the thing you most feel excited about. That's got to be it, right? So the next question, there were a few different versions of the question. There's about three or four people asked this in different kind of ways, which was basically the question of where following what is our excitement or trying to transform old limiting beliefs, but where that meets things like physical illness. (2:42:37)

One person mentioned breast cancer, another person chronic fatigue. So when there's a real physical reality, at least in that moment that someone's experiencing, and how that kind of meets wanting to kind of transcend that and be free from that and go beyond that. First one is in the sense of reverse the process of illness by investigating what caused it. (2:42:58)

And it's always an out of alignment state of being that causes physical illness, because nobody is really meant, except for a few rare exceptions, is never really meant to get physically ill. We're not meant to get physically ill. This whole story of we're meant to grow old and die and cripple, it's not true. (2:43:14)

It's because we're out of alignment for 60 years and then at some point it'll crystallize itself as a debilitating disease. But we're meant to be sparkly up to the point of death pretty much. So if she can discover or he can discover or they can discover, look back upon their lives and see how they have been tiring themselves out to the point of chronic illness, or how they've been angry or harnessing anger for someone, for example, to the point of breast cancer, they can then change that frequency and choose to believe something else, and choose to forgive, and choose to let go, and choose to move on. (2:43:51)

And if they are able to vibrationally realign themselves, the physical discomfort will eliminate itself, will transform, the body will change. And then a kind of another version of that which someone was commenting on, I'm going to put it in slightly my own kind of words, but one way I could put it is that there are certain areas in my life, for example, that I can see that I've been more successful than other people that had a similar level of ambition or determination. (2:44:21)

And other areas where I've put tons of effort and tons of focus and I've just spectacularly failed. And the kind of thing I'm pointing towards is kind of natural talent. And natural talent kind of also meeting a kind of dogged kind of hard work and determination. So business is a good, you know, we're talking about kind of starting an organization, and the kind of the energy and the excitement around that. (2:44:40)

And, you know, I've seen many, many friends of mine that are kind of, they want to be entrepreneurs, and I've done well in that area, but I'm also, I feel like I have an unfair advantage. I feel like I have some natural talents. So how does that kind of meet the kind of the kind of bigger picture? (2:44:54)

Can you briefly describe why or how do you feel that you have those talents? Does that make sense? Yeah, I would say I'm good with people. I have a natural kind of like I can read people, I can feel people, and I naturally care about people. I have a certain capacity in terms of how I can kind of see situations and problems and kind of understand them. (2:45:22)

And it's interesting, it's like I have a capacity to think multiple moves ahead, especially which in business, as you probably know, is really important. It's like to kind of not just see the next thing, but because by the time everyone else sees it, it's already old, but being able to kind of see where something's going. So would you say you have no negative definitions that are blocking you from that capacity, whereas some other people might have insecurities in terms of relating to other people that you don't have? It's interesting. (2:45:44)

Negative definitions about themselves in terms of I'm not capable of being very envisionary and seeing ahead. Well, it's interesting. In my very early business life, I would say my beliefs in my capacity outweighed my actual capacity. So I did what lots of young entrepreneurs do and I basically lost loads of money. I was very, very successful. (2:46:06)

I got really carried away and I basically grew way faster than I could and I ran out of cash. And then I learned. I broke a lot of pain, a lot of frustration and I got better. And then these days, I would say I have a very big vision, but I also have a track record and a capacity that I believe I can deliver that vision. (2:46:22)

So yeah, there's a kind of moving around for me between you can be sometimes over-believing in yourself as your talents or capacities don't meet that, but you can also under-believe in that. I don't know how that meets your kind of perspective around it. So the question was around kind of vibration and kind of belief or kind of awareness of kind of vision and dream and just kind of pumping, in my words, pumping the energy into that and the idea that you put everything into that and that could happen. (2:46:57)

And then what I was putting in is where does that meet capacity, talent, reality, that side of it. Awesome. Well, what I am inspired to say, which might not precisely answer the question or that balance of how does that work with this, but I believe anyone has the ability to become a Master Visionary and it does require practice, it does require stepping up your frequency, but what I notice is that the more you do it, the more you do it. (2:47:31)

So in other words, I'm becoming, every day I'm becoming more of a Master Visionary than I am that day, than I already am at that day, than I already am at that day. So every time I'm like, like what used to be like, I thought, oh, this is big ambition, like right now that seems like low-balling it so much. (2:47:49)

So like every day you bump up your ability to think outside the box, believe outside the box, not just think outside the box, but believe outside the box. And believing outside of the box becomes easier and easier the more you do it, because now you back that up with the feeling of being energized and being empowered and feeling so connected to spirit and to consciousness and to all these empowering qualities that are innate in consciousness, that everything is possible, that every time you have a weird crazy idea that blows everyone's minds and they're like, oh that's ambitious, you instantly already believe it has happened, you already believe it's the case. (2:48:24)

So everyone has the ability to do that over and over and over again, and so the tiniest little shy human being can actually become master of the universe, can actually transform this planet. I believe that we can consistently step up the vibration of being a visionary more and more, and the more you already have that frequency, the higher you can tap into. (2:48:47)

So in a sense you start thinking over everybody's heads, which I guess in a sense turns into like, okay, well how is this funneled into a corporation that works with multiple people and timelines and physical limitations and finances and all that stuff. (2:48:56)

And I think also it just helps clarify part of my question stroke inquiry around it, is that it's someone's capacity to also deliver, because there's a lot of people that can kind of go out there, especially business as an example that I'm familiar with, so I'm using that kind of reference point, but it's like people kind of talk a great game and you get an interview and totally inspired and their work sucks, you know, and it's like all they can see is how good they are, but actually the quality of their work, it's crap. (2:49:40)

So I think a lot of this comes down to being able to maintain that, being able to maintain a vision, because I think a lot of people have that burst and they have that glimpse, this would be awesome, this would be amazing, but to actually be able to master your personal vibration in everyday life, even regardless of your visions for business or the world or your organization, but just in general in life to be able to maintain a certain core vibrational attitude of joy and anticipation and excitement and connection and confidence and visionariness to where you're constantly receptive to ideas. (2:50:12)

If your core frequency is used to that, that's why I say the more visionary you become, the more visionary you become, and the easier it becomes to become even more crazy. It's because your core frequency bumps up and when you have a core frequency that is simply higher than the environment that you grew up in and the people that are used to being sort of on a lower frequency of visionariness, then the vision that you maintain is naturally maintained and it's not just one bout of inspiration, it's actually consistent inspiration being downloaded into action and downloaded into... but then of course you get to the point where at some point it grows physically, logistically too big to just be able to do it physically yourself and you need other people and then the whole art comes in of somehow rubbing off on people that they can too be the visionary and I think this is where what I previously spoke about becomes really important to not compartmentalize people too much, to not say okay I'm hiring you because you're good at this, not just go do this. (2:51:22)

If it's on a freelance basis, that's great. If it's on an individual, like one term, one event basis, that's fine, but if it's someone that's actually a core part of your company and that's like consistently there, they need to be hired based on the people that they are, not on what they can do. Of course they need certain skills for certain tasks, and you're not going to hire a web developer that has no experience with it. (2:51:40)

I tried that once. It didn't work so well. So of course there's eye for quality and position and roles, but what I'm looking at, the people that are around me at the core is, and right now it's around 10 people, why they are there for me is because, not because I necessarily believe that they're the most skilled at one particular thing, but it's because I think that they are tied into the vision the most, and they feel the most devoted to me and my work and what I envision. (2:52:15)

So now it's easy for me to rub up on them, and then they can transcend themselves, and they can be inspired by the vision, because I feel they have a strong connection to that, and then they can do all kinds of things they never knew they could. So I really love to have the core, like you can always hire one person to do one thing that your team is lacking, so to speak, but the core of the team needs to be transparent to each other, and all completely stand in line behind its vision, so that they all can become visionaries. (2:52:43)

And then you can really start to be unrealistic, and have it actually delivered. But you need more people like yourself at some point, you need more visionaries to rub off on. So it's hard if one person is the visionary, and everyone else is the worker bee. Totally. It's very hard to get things done at that level, and so there's a great gap between what you envision, and what you can actually deliver. (2:53:04)

But if everyone is rubbing off on each other, and their core frequency becomes naturally visionary status, confident all the way, we can do, of course we can do that, then they come up, they're in the frequency where they have these inspirations come in, because they're at the same level of vibration that these thoughts are already existing in. There's nothing new ever created. We just shift frequencies, just like when you tune your radio, and suddenly you hear a song, the song was already playing, you were just simply not aware of it, because you were not tuned into it. Same with this, anything is possible. (2:53:38)

So if a group of people especially tunes into that, then we can download massive amounts of non-physical visionary data, into actual physical workable action that transforms this planet. Got it, all right, all right. So I don't think, so personally just to close out on that, I don't think it's a matter of balancing the non-physical of the visionary status, with how does that actually fit into this reality. (2:54:05)

I do think it's over, it's like over-vision there, how do you say this, like just believe in the vision so much that it has to manifest. I'm not one to like try to fit it in a box of linearity and timelines too much, and resources and what's possible. So I'd rather say, no I am going to be mainly oriented as a visionary in that space, but rub off on the people as much as I can, so that they all also tune into that space, so that they each with their skills can then channel that into action as efficiently as possible. And it doesn't come from one guy, it comes from everyone innately. (2:54:39)

You're building a culture in a sense. Right, yeah. So there's a question from Tim, and you kind of touched on it right at the start, but it's an interesting one to come back to. Every state of being is a valid expression of one infinite creator, but could you explain again what is the use or purpose or benefit of feeling depressed for months in a row? How can it teach me to feel more awesome? And I think it was an interesting one, because we kind of, we didn't spend so much time on it earlier, we have spent loads of time on it now, but just, you know there may be a lot of people that are watching this that on one hand feel the kind of the inspiration, and the kind of passion, and there's like they can feel the place they want to kind of, part of them does connect, they want to connect more, but they're more coloured day to day by a feeling of either depression, or impossibility, or overwhelm. (2:55:27)

How does that serve people? Does it serve people? If it's consistent, and it doesn't show a lot of progress, and it doesn't seem like there is intense ripe purpose to the presence of the depression, I would say it's not purposeful, and it's actually just a state that you're working with that you want to transform. So it's different from my example where I temporarily for an intense purpose, go through an intense churning process where I learned something. (2:55:54)

There's constant minute by minute transformation of that depression, of that process, of that churning, of that hellish experience. So I notice changes, I notice I'm learning things. But if it's a static state of depression for months at a time, and you don't really see it going anywhere, you have to really investigate what your beliefs are that are causing that. How are you dulling down your spirit? (2:56:13)

Because depression is turning down your frequency by believing in limitation, believing in lack. (2:56:18)

So when you imagine yourself without lack, without your limitations, without your flaws, without your whatever, what would you be doing? What would you want to be doing? And then start thinking in that direction, start focusing on that possibility, and let that take you over step by step. It's kind of like you're saying, whatever state somebody's in, if that state is stale and not moving and kind of flat, it's something to be moved. I think so, yeah. I think so. Cool, cool. (2:56:47)

I haven't been reading out people's names, but this one's from John. We've got a few minutes. I'm totally new to listening to you, but your words resonate very well with some of the guidance I've been asking for. I have one question that relates to one thing you mentioned, self-realisation and self-actualisation. I've heard those terms used interchangeably, but I hope you did not elaborate already. (2:57:10)

We touched on it earlier. But is there a difference between those terms, or are they both interchangeable and synonymous with enlightenment? So I think what I think would be really helpful would just be a kind of clear self-realisation, self-actualisation. Self-realisation is reversing the creation process by taking the individual that you assume yourself to be and remembering more of who you are. (2:57:37)

So basically it's recognising that you are awareness instead of the person that assumes itself to be a person. And the more you go into that, the deeper it will become and the more you will be self-realised. So self-realisation means realising the self that never changes, the changeless basically. Self-realisation is all about discovering, becoming aware of the changeless part of yourself. (2:57:58)

And with that comes peace and stability and reliability and trust and transpersonal experiences. Whereas self-actualisation is all about bringing the clarity and the uniqueness of your spirit, of your soul, of your theme, why you are here and what inspires you and how your higher self-consciousness is constantly feeding you inspiration. You might not be aware of it, but it is. (2:58:24)

And then channelling that into the world and bringing that out as empowering, empowering as a way as you can by letting go of limiting beliefs as often as you can, not believing in lack, but seeing abundance everywhere, seeing freedom everywhere, seeing possibility instead of impossibility. And then bringing that out in that way to the best of your ability and to the greatest degree of joy that you can and follow your joy in that way. (2:58:43)

So self-actualisation is to actualise the individual that you are. Self-realisation is to realise the unchanging self that you are basically. And they go hand in hand and they become simultaneous. So you can be working on a project, be super excited, be CEO of a company and create awesome stuff and like deal with limiting beliefs and transform them into empowering beliefs and feel amazing and create epic stuff. (2:59:09)

And simultaneously notice or know at the core of your being that you are unchanging, that you are effortless, that you are at peace, that nothing ever affects you, that you are immortal, that you are eternal, etc. (2:59:17)

Beautiful, beautiful. Last question. And again, a few people have been asking it in different ways, but give us a bit of a kind of some clues that people can find out more about your work. So obviously you've got your online academy. I know you've also got this big event in January, which as I was reading about it, it sounds to me like you just basically want to throw a massive party and also have a seminar at the same time, which also sounds very cool. (2:59:42)

And I know you've got various other stuff coming up. So basically for people which are new to you, and yeah, what are some of the ways that they can kind of... Yeah, so let's party together. Amsterdam, January 2nd and 3rd. It's all about... actually there is a lot of teaching going to happen there. It's just a Saturday night party. That's the bit I focus on. (2:59:59)

No, there's going to be over 500 people there. It's going to be a DJ and all that. So there's going to be a party Saturday night, but there's going to be two days of seminars and it's all going to be about what was the significance of 2010 through 2015 and the churning and the transformation that's occurring and what is the significance going forward starting in 2016 and what are some of the differences we can look forward to and the expansions we can look forward to both as individuals as well as on a collective and how can we contribute to that. (3:00:32)

How can we really take this to the next level and party our asses out in real life. Set the vibration. Yes. There's a Hawaii retreat in March 2nd through 5th in Maui. This can all be found at BentinhoMassaro.com. There's events and there's blogs and there's some videos. That'd probably be a good space for people to get familiar with my teachings. (3:00:56)

BentinhoMassaro.com. For those that are wanting to go more in depth, I have structured courses that are online that are step-by-step video lessons except for the first course which is written out and that's an online academy and community. We're going to launch the new version January 1st for those that are already members have been waiting for this for quite some time. (3:01:18)

It's going to fix some bugs and be a more streamlined experience. So yes, that's TrinfinityAcademy.com. Awesome. Bentinho, it's been a real treat. I know you're super busy and there's loads that's going on so I really appreciate you making the time to come here. Absolutely, this is amazing. I love the space you have here. I love your entrepreneurial vision, bringing that edge to spirituality. (3:01:44)

I think we need more of that. Yeah, I think so too. That's part of the reason why it's been a real treat to have you here because I really like the kind of sense of not just waking up but also really grounding it and bringing it alive. It's really cool. Thank you guys also very much for being here. I really appreciate your questions and your sharing and bringing it alive. (3:02:01)

It really gives Bentinho something to be with but also people at home in the sense you are the voice of people at home. So really do appreciate it. Thank you so much. And thank you guys for watching. Hopefully you'll join us again here on Conscious2 very soon. It's actually our last event of this year but we've got a pretty awesome calendar of stuff lining up so please do watch out for that. (3:02:22)

And also if you want to access the replay of this event or indeed we've done over 250 hours worth of events. People like Byron Katie, Ken Wilber, A.H. Almas, Muji, a whole kind of crowd of very cool interesting stuff. Then please do check out Conscious2 and you'll be able to find out more about how you can dive deeper into the library. (3:02:42)

But for now thank you for watching. Thank you again to Bentinho and hopefully you'll join us again very soon. Bye-bye. (3:02:45)

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