And I think somewhere between Geller and perhaps Ingo Swann, they're the reason why. And they even got Vallee to come on board. I mean, I found this out from Vallee some years back. I had no idea, but he said that they were so perplexed by so many of the remote viewers they were using, telling about how they had UFO encounters that they thought, well, they asked Vallee to come on board on a confidential basis at first to go ahead and talk to these people, see if this was somehow a component of the situation, which they're still trying to figure out to this day.
(1:00:43)
Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of people are familiar with Geller because of the TV shows.
I know that's how I first heard of him, when he would do the TV shows, you know, demonstrating his psychic abilities. You'd have Randy on there debunking everything he did.
And at the time, I mean, when I looked at that, I figured if you're performing on TV, you're probably faking it, you know, at least to some degree, because you don't want to fail on live television.
(1:01:18)
And this stuff is notoriously, you know, difficult to put in that sort of performance space. But I also found it, you know, it bugged me when the amazing Randy would sit there and say, well, look, I can duplicate what he's doing with sleight of hand. And I'm like, but that doesn't prove that what Geller's doing is using sleight of hand.
(1:01:35)
You know, it's the analogy I always use is just because you can watch a movie and you find out, oh, those punches in that movie are fake. It doesn't mean all punches in real life are fake, you know?
Right. And I, you know, I've talked with people who met Uri and saw him doing things. And I know there was one of them was Harry Belisle, who was in New York City. I walked into his office when I was in New York once, and he was the editor and publisher of UFO Update. And it was a psychic magazine that he published whose name escapes me at the moment.
(1:02:17)
But we got talking about Uri Geller and he said he made a surprise visit to his office one time. And there was something on his desk that moved. And it was like these, on his bulletin board, there were these little pins that started popping off. And he said now, he said he had no opportunity to have planted, you know, got this place prepared because he had never been to his office before.
(1:02:44)
This was the first time he'd ever come. And suddenly, you know, he's standing there and all this stuff starts going on. So he was pretty impressed. And then I did an interview with Eldon Byrd, who was a naval scientist and studied Geller. And, you know, he worked with Geller. They corresponded for a while and Geller would tell him things that were going to happen.
(1:03:09)
And, you know, that the Israeli intelligence was working with him and they would question him and have him try to have him do things. And so he'd tell Byrd on the phone, you know, watch for such and such to happen, you know. And a lot of this, you know, and this is in this book here, of course, came to pass.
(1:03:28)
What interested me most was how he was, you know, not only working on the psychokinesis, but telepathy with Geller. And Geller sort of, when he was in Geller's presence, he sort of charged him up somehow.
(1:03:46)
He suddenly himself, as a scientist, was capable of receiving mental images from Geller and then transmitting them to him. And it was like, you know, a green mental field. And so then he went home to his wife at the time afterwards, and they did it. And the same thing occurred. But by the next day, he had lost this ability.
(1:04:16)
But it was because of working with Geller, he said, that this occurred. And then he said he was over in England, and they were going around, he was with Geller and I think some other people, and they stopped at a little cafe, street cafe, and one of the waiters recognized Geller and went in.
(1:04:43)
And suddenly a whole bunch of people, staff came out, you know, oh, so good to meet you. And can you give a demonstration? And Geller says, yes, yes.
And so one of them goes in and gets a big knife. And Eldon Byrd told me that, because I interviewed him about this, and he said that Geller just touched it with one of his fingers.
(1:05:03)
And he said, as I watched it, the knife began to bend. And then he took his finger away, and it continued to bend.
And he says, he grabbed Geller after that and says, what you need to do is get somebody like Billy Graham to go on TV with you and do what you just did. And the world will be convinced.
And he said that Geller told him something like, no, then my life wouldn't be worth a plug nickel if everybody believed I could really do this.
(1:05:42)
He said, it's better the way it is, you know, because he said, I have intelligent, you know, he had intelligence people who were shadowing him and wanting to use his ability. And he was getting to the point where he just had too much. Yeah. Wow. But yeah, he's definitely a fascinating character. And like I said, for a long time, I never knew what to make of him.
(1:06:04)
But the more I learned about him, the more I realized that he was studied pretty heavily and, you know, seems to be the real thing, even if he is using some trickery when he's doing live shows and things like that. But like I said, I feel like if you don't, you're setting yourself up for major failure. You know, like you got to make sure those, you know, when you're doing something on a big stage, it can't fail, you know? Yeah. And I remember reading about how, and it might have been Kit Green that had said this, but somebody says, you know that Geller fakes stuff.
(1:06:51)
And he said, well, he did try that with us one time and it was so, it was so badly done, it wouldn't have fooled anybody. He said, you know, we caught it right off.
Uh, he also has an ability and he said it's, you know, there was no way he could have performed some of the things that he did in our studies, unless he actually had those abilities.
(1:07:12)
And I'm sure, I don't doubt him so much in the studies. I doubt him when you, when you put him on the stage, you know? Yeah. But, uh, anyway, he, um, I would love to have, you know, had like been in that office of Harry Belisle when he was, uh, walked in and all these things were happening, but that must've been quite something.
(1:07:39)
Uh, one of the things you talk about in the book that somehow I've missed from Valet is the idea of an associative universe. Do you want to explain that a little bit?
(1:07:48)
Well, from what I had gathered, you know, he said it was very similar to, uh, the way a computer retrieves information by an association key or something, some keyword or code. And, um, that remote viewing and precognition, um, all this quantum physics stuff, I guess, you know, spooky action at a distance, all that stuff may happen in a similar, similar way.
(1:08:22)
And, um, so I guess it's something like that. Um, Hmm. And, uh, like information is interconnected.
Yeah. And of course he, he helped the remote viewing people by coming up with, uh, you know, using coordinates to various things, different, different sites. Um, and that way it wouldn't, uh, give away any, um, any information or clues to the, to the remote viewer, what the target was, unless they had all this memorized, what the coordinates were.
(1:09:03)
Um, but, uh, yeah, I think it's, it's, um, you know, I can't say beyond that really, you know.
Okay. All right. That's good. Um, almost out of time here. Uh, one of the things that you talk about in there that I was not familiar with at all was something called Zendra. Yeah. And, and in fact, I, I not long ago, um, I found out from, uh, uh, Joseph Brooks has, uh, been an ER physician over in LA and he, he works with, uh, with free and CCRI is a medical doctor.
(1:09:37)
And he's been, um, very involved in a lot of the, uh, CE5, you know, experiments for a number of years. And he informed me that there was a, um, a mission Rama group over in California that, uh, had, had actually, uh, a few years ago experienced a very spectacular event, similar to what was in, in my book, um, which was the Sixto Paz contactee down in Peru, who was, uh, back in 2002, I think was maybe the first time this happened.
(1:10:23)
Um, down in Chile, it was a, like a blue arc of light that appeared low to the ground and some 24 people reportedly walked under it. And, um, some saw like rogue ball-headed humanoid beings. And, uh, some of the people standing by saw some of these people walking under it sort of become transparent, maybe even disappear. And, um, and there were a number of these stories.
(1:10:52)
Um, I wrote to one researcher down in Peru who said that it was
(1:10:52)