Ben Hansen : UFO/ET 事件でも、証人の仕草や声の分析で真偽が 80-95% の正確度で判定できる

November 29, 2024 · 157 min read

前置き(2024-11-29)

Ben Hansen によるタイトルの主張を取り上げた過去記事を書式変換し、さらに元動画は消されているので、同じ内容の別動画を追加した。さらに該当箇所の文字起こしと和訳を追加した。

改竄がないことを示す意味で、過去記事の部分はそのまま（書式変換のみ行って）残している。

核心部分

Ben Hansen は

One of them looks at micro-expressions. So that was developed by, you know, Paul Ekman, if people know the show Lie to Me. And you see these little tiny inflections of the face and gestures. (0:20:12)
そのうちの1つは微表情に注目するものです。これはポール・エクマンが開発したもので、『ライ・トゥ・ミー』という番組を知っている人ならわかると思う。顔の小さな抑揚やジェスチャーを見るんだ。 (0:20:12)

と述べているが、まさにその TV 番組、 "Lie to Me" は

ChatGPT-4o

「クリミナル・マインド」や「Lie to Me」などの人気ドラマが、FBIが行動分析を万能のように利用しているという誤解を広めました。これらの作品では、捜査官が一瞬の仕草や表情で嘘や動機を見抜くように描かれていますが、実際には科学的根拠が十分ではなく、誇張されています。

だと AI ですら批判している。批判の詳細は本日の記事、

Ben Hansen が喧伝する「FBI 直伝の身振りや表情から嘘を見抜く技法」の信頼度を事実確認（fact check）⇒ やはり TV 演出用の誇張

で詳しく述べた。

履歴

(2024-11-29) 書式変換＋元動画追加

(2021-09-07) 作成。 Ben Hansen : UFO/ET 事件でも、証人の仕草や声の分析で真偽が 80-95% の正確度で判定できる。

(2021-09-07 begin)

手抜き

15:50 FBI で習った仕草や声の分析を活用。論文によれば 80-95% の正確さだとされてる。最近は AI も活用されている。

Roswell の証人たち：みな真実を語っている。

Travis Walton の事例について。関係者 7名の嘘発見器の結果からして確率的に捏造はありえない。

Ben Hansen の定番のアピールがこれ。「この方法で俺には証言者の真偽判定が高い信頼度でなしうるのだ」と宣い、彼が出演、制作するケーブル TV の UFO 番組でも秘密兵器として毎回、見せ場として利用している。

もちろん、彼のこの主張はデタラメ。この手の出処不明の論文の数値なんてあてにならない。実際に 80-95% の正確度があれば、この技法がニュース番組で政治家や被疑者の真偽判定用に引っ張りだこになっている筈だが、そんな話は聞かない。

同じ目的で嘘発見器は多用されるが、Ben Hansen が自慢する仕草や声の分析による真偽判定の技法が使われることはごく稀。なぜなら判定者の勘や主観が判定結果大きく左右するから客観的といえるレベルには至っていない。当然、裁判所でも証拠として認めない。

実際、Ben Hansen が自慢するこの方法は、対照群（演技者など）を用いたより厳密な実験では散々な結果となっており、専門家の信任を失っているという報告も眼にしたことがある。

Ben Hansen の場合はもっと悪いことに TV 放送の録画映像を見て、出演人物の些細な仕草から深い意味を「読み取って」いるが、これではフロイト流の夢判断や易者の手相読みとやっていることは同じ。つまり Ben Hansen はUFO 業界の「（表情読みの）占い芸人」でしかない…これが私の評価。

音声(29:10)

Alien Invasion: Hudson Valley & Roswell UFO Cases - COAST TO COAST AM 2021

memo

COAST TO COAST AM - August 2021. Former Federal agent and UFO investigator Ben Hansen is currently featured in two documentaries now streaming on Discovery+. The most recent documentary, Alien Invasion: Hudson Valley, is an in-depth investigation into an alien epicenter, helping residents of the Hudson Valley, NY find explanations for their unearthly encounters. While there was a wave of UFO/alien incidents there in the 1980s, Hansen revealed a history of sightings dating back to the early 1900s in the Hudson Valley. His team's investigation used some of the technological equipment employed in paranormal communication or ghosthunting experiments. Paranormal hot spots like Hudson Valley, Skinwalker Ranch, and Marley Woods seem to have an array of anomalies that go beyond just UFOs. Hansen noted that one of the alien abductees they investigated in Hudson Valley also had poltergeist and paranormal activity in his home.

(2021-09-07 end)

(2024-11-29 begin)

前置き

上の動画は既に消されている。だが、全く同じ内容を含むより長い動画を下に追加しておく。動画の表示時刻は上と同じではない。

該当箇所の文字起こし＋和訳もつけた。

該当箇所

これは4つのモダリティを使用します。そのうちの1つは微表情に注目するものです。これはポール・エクマンが開発したもので、『ライ・トゥ・ミー』という番組を知っている人ならわかると思う。顔の小さな抑揚やジェスチャーを見るんだ。 (0:20:12)
それをAIが分析するわけです。 (0:20:16)
ですから、コンピュータのアルゴリズムはこれらを拾い上げるのがずっとうまくなっています。そして、声のトーンやストレスもプログラムに取り込むことができるようになりました。つまり、誰かが組み合わせて使うどんな言葉も、その人のベースラインを形成するのです。そしてそのうちのいくつかは、ごまかしやストレスと結びついているのです。 (0:20:45)
つまり、すべてをまとめて、最終的にそれが何を意味するのかを人間が解釈するわけです。白書の研究によると、その精度は92％にもなるそうです。
...
完全に正確というわけではありませんが、白書の研究では80％から95％の精度があると言われています。

▼文脈理解のための関連部分原文＋和訳：展開

だから、それはかなり重要なことだと思う。私もそう思うロズウェルのことなら何でも知っていると思ったら、今度はあなたの番組「ロズウェル最終評決」が始まります。それについて教えてください。プロデューサーが私のところに来たんです。もう番組の大半は出来上がっていて、「ロズウェル・シリーズがあるんだ。6部構成です。 (0:18:59)
そして、もしあなたがコメントしたり、タイムラインを通して観客をリードしたりすることに参加したいのなら、それを知りたいのです。まず、どんな新しい手がかりがありますか？というのも、私はドン・シュミットと何度も仕事をし、何度も現場に足を運んだ。というのも、私たちは人工知能AI技術を持っていて、目撃者のビデオを撮ることができるんです。 (0:19:32)
彼らはもう亡くなっていますが、これをメリーランド大学とダートマス大学が開発したアルゴリズムにかけることができます。今、私が知っている唯一の契約は、彼らを通してその作成者と話したことですが、政府です。つまり、政府の請負業者がこれを使っているわけですが、あまり知られていません。これは4つのモダリティを使用します。そのうちの1つは微表情に注目するものです。これはポール・エクマンが開発したもので、『ライ・トゥ・ミー』という番組を知っている人ならわかると思う。顔の小さな抑揚やジェスチャーを見るんだ。 (0:20:12)
それをAIが分析するわけです。 (0:20:16)
ですから、コンピュータのアルゴリズムはこれらを拾い上げるのがずっとうまくなっています。そして、声のトーンやストレスもプログラムに取り込むことができるようになりました。つまり、誰かが組み合わせて使うどんな言葉も、その人のベースラインを形成するのです。そしてそのうちのいくつかは、ごまかしやストレスと結びついているのです。 (0:20:45)
つまり、すべてをまとめて、最終的にそれが何を意味するのかを人間が解釈するわけです。白書の研究によると、その精度は92％にもなるそうです。素晴らしいことだ。ベン、ちょっと待って。休憩に入ります。戻ってきて、このあたりを取り上げましょう。素晴らしい話だ。 Coast Zoneのニュースレターで毎日の最新情報を無料でお届けします。 (0:21:08)
So I think it counts for quite a bit. I think so, too. And just when we thought we knew everything about Roswell, up comes your show, Roswell, The Final Verdict. Tell me about that. So the producers came to me. It was kind of, you know, like they'd already put together most of the show, and they said, hey, we have this Roswell series. It's six parts. (0:18:59)
And I want to know, like, if you'd like to participate in commenting and leading the audience through the timeline. And I said, okay, first of all, what new leads do you have? Because I've worked a lot with Don Schmidt and been out to the site many times, and we kind of feel like we run into dead ends a lot. They said, well, we have this artificial intelligence AI technology that we are able to take video of the witnesses now that's archival because, of course, nearly all of them are gone. (0:19:32)
They're dead now, and we can take this and run it through this algorithm that University of Maryland and Dartmouth College developed. Now, the only contracts I'm aware of from, you know, talking to the creators of it through them is the government. So government contractors are using this, but it's not really well-known even. And what it does is it takes... uses four modalities. One of them looks at micro-expressions. So that was developed by, you know, Paul Ekman, if people know the show Lie to Me. And you see these little tiny inflections of the face and gestures. (0:20:12)
And it analyzes that by AI now. (0:20:16)
So the computer algorithm is much better at picking these up. And then it now takes voice tonality and stress and is able to also compute that into the program and also the content or content statement analysis, we call it. So whatever words that somebody uses in combination develops a baseline for that particular person. And some of it is linked to deception or stress. (0:20:45)
So you put it all together now and then in the end have a human interpretation of what it all means. And the white paper studies have shown that this can be as accurate as 92%. That's fantastic. Ben, hold on for a second. We're going to hit a break. Let's come back and pick that up right where that is. That's an amazing story. Get daily show updates right to your inbox for free with the Coast Zone newsletter. (0:21:08)

アダプトステムとイミュステムの幹細胞ウェルネス・キットと無料ギフトのリラクソールは、HealthyLooking.comでのみお求めいただけます。800-563-3980です。送料無料のプロモコードGeorgeをお忘れなく。 HealthyLooking.comのジョージ幹細胞ウェルネスキット。HealthyLooking.comです。コースト・トゥ・コーストへようこそ。ジョージ・ノリとベン・ハンソンです。
(0:27:00)
ええ、ビデオでも可能です。音声ファイルでも可能です。そして、書面での陳述も可能です。もちろん、3つともあれば、あるいは少なくともビデオで話してもらえれば、さまざまなモダリティを適用することができます。でも、とてもクールだったのは、この話を聞いたとき、私は「よし、じゃあ、申し込もう。番組に出よう。 (0:27:25)
そして彼らは私を椅子に座らせ、基本的に私はこれらの異なるインタビューでどのような結果が出るか予知していなかった。そして、彼らはただその場で私に質問してきた。だから、そのほとんどに対する私の反応は、予想通りだったと言える。いくつか例を挙げよう。ロズウェルの話を知っている人は、葬儀屋のグレン・デニスと看護婦Xの話を知っている。 (0:27:59)
彼は町の葬儀屋兼救急車の運転手で、密閉された子供サイズの棺をいくつ用意できるか、長い間風雨にさらされていた遺体をどうやって保存するのか、と質問し始めた。そして彼は、これは本当に奇妙なことだと思った。救急車に乗せられた飛行士を基地まで運んだという話だ。 (0:28:28)
そしてそこにいる間に、残骸が保管されている格納庫に行き、残骸と、そこで出会った看護婦を見て、その看護婦は彼にそこから出るように言い、後にこれらの生物の解剖の絵を描いてくれた。それで、全体のストーリーを考慮するわけですが、本当に驚くべきことに、このAIは高い確率で、彼が基地にいた理由についての部分を除いて、そのほとんどについて真実を語っていると予測したのです。 (0:29:02)
つまり、彼はこの看護師がある種の不倫をしていることを知っていたのだろうということだ。 (0:29:09)
それでね、全ての話が真っ当であるわけではないんだ。こうやって目撃者は物事を公表するんだ。もうひとつは......まず、牧場主のマット・ブラゼルとジェシー・マルセルは、自分が扱ったこと、見たことについて、全員が真実を語っていることを明らかにした。すごいことだ。驚くべきことです。 (0:29:38)
そして、6部構成のこの番組の全体的なアイデアは、この事件、ロズウェルを法廷に持ち込んで、証拠の優位性があると言えるか、ということです。刑事裁判に持ち込めば、合理的な疑いを超えて、この世のものではない何かがそこで起こったと言えると思う。素晴らしいシリーズで、このような新しい切り口で描かれたことを本当にうれしく思います。 (0:30:06)
、私たちの番組の友人であるトラヴィス・ウォルトンとの仕事について少し教えてください。もちろん、『Fire in the Sky』という映画にもなった彼のエピソードの中で、彼と樵の友人たちは全員ポリグラフ・テストに合格しています。ええ、それで、以前連邦政府で働いていたとき、雇用前の検査として何度もポリグラフ検査を受けました。ひどいものです。私は大嫌いだ。 (0:30:39)
、完全に正確というわけではありませんが、白書の研究では80％から95％の精度があると言われています。
それでトラヴィスは2012年頃に私の友人になり、私は「Fact or Faked」を撮影していました。それで彼は、私がデマだと指摘しようとしているのではと思い、とても懐疑的でした。目撃者が7人いたというだけでなく、彼らは幸運にも法執行機関が関与し、全員が、その多くが何度もポリグラフ検査を受けたからです。私たちが作成したドキュメンタリーの中で、数学的に検証した結果ですが、ポリグラフを信頼するのであれば、これらの人々が嘘をつく可能性は、控えめに見ても数十万分の1から数百万分の1ということになります。 (0:31:51)
さて、もちろん、ポリグラフは本人を目の前にして、質問をする必要がありますが、ロズウェルのジレンマの1つは、もはや目撃者にアクセスできないことでした。だから、ロズウェルのジレンマのひとつは、私たちがもう目撃者にアクセスできないことだった。ボブ・ラザールやその他の事件で、協力する必要もない人たちが、この技術を応用して、象徴的な事件に光を当てることができる。 (0:32:25)
私が子供の頃、UFOに興味を持つきっかけとなった事件、ベティとバーニー・ヒル事件を再調査しましたね。 (0:32:31)
The Stem Cell Wellness Kit with Adaptostem and ImmuStem and your free gift relaxall is only available at HealthyLooking.com or it's all free at 800-563-3980. That's 800-563-3980. Don't forget to enter promo code George for free shipping. George's Stem Cell Wellness Kit at HealthyLooking.com. That's HealthyLooking.com. Welcome back to Coast to Coast. George Nori with you along with Ben Hanson. Ben, with this special technology that can be used, I assume, on people who have died, but they're on videotape? (0:27:00)
Yeah, so it could be video. We could also do it with just an audio file. And then also just with written statements. Of course, if you have all three, or at least have them on video speaking, we can apply all the different modalities to it. And gosh, what was so cool, though, when they told me this, I was like, okay, well, sign me up. Let's do the show. (0:27:25)
And so they would sit me in a chair and basically I had no forewarning how the results went with these different interviews. And they would just lay it on me right there. So my reaction to most of it, I would say, was just as I expected. So a couple examples. Those familiar with the Roswell story know the story of Glenn Dennis, the mortician, and this Nurse X. So Glenn claims that the air base at Roswell called him. (0:27:59)
He was the town mortician and ambulance driver, and started asking him questions about how many child-sized caskets could he get that were hermetically sealed, and how do you preserve bodies that have been out laying in the elements for a long time? And he thought, this is really weird. So then he finds himself driving to the base, and his story is that he was taking an airman in the ambulance to the base. (0:28:28)
And then while he's there, he goes to the hangar where the debris was stored, and sees the debris and a nurse that he meets, who tells him to get out of there and later draws him pictures of the autopsy of these beings. So you take the whole story into account, and what's really extraordinary is that with a high probability, this AI predicts that he was telling the truth on most of it, except for the part about why he was on the base. (0:29:02)
And so the conspiracy there is that he probably knew this nurse maybe was having some sort of an affair. (0:29:09)
And so, you know, not every story is going to be straight up, you know, everyone's telling the truth. This is how witnesses disclose things. Another really quick one was the... well, first of all, Matt Brazel, the rancher, and Jesse Marcel, every one of those came out as telling the truth as to what they handled and what they saw. That's amazing. It is. (0:29:38)
And when you put it all together, the whole idea of this show in a six-part series is, could you take this case, could you take Roswell to court, and say there's a preponderance of the evidence? And I think you could take it to criminal court, and you could say beyond a reasonable doubt that something happened there that was not from this world. And it's just a great series, and I was really happy that they had this new angle on it. (0:30:06)
Tell me a little bit about your work with Travis Walton, friend of our program, and of course, during his episode, which was turned into a movie called Fire in the Sky, he and his logger friends all passed polygraph tests. Yeah, and so, having done work when I used to work for the federal government, I've taken multiple polygraphs as a pre-employment thing, and I'll tell you, those of you listeners who have had to do it for work or otherwise, you probably know it's one of the most horrible experiences. They're awful. I hate them. (0:30:39)
And they're not completely accurate, but the white paper studies on those placed them anywhere from about 80 to, they claim up to 95% accuracy. So, Travis became a friend of mine about 2012, and I was filming Fact or Faked, and so he was very skeptical of me, thinking I was trying to point it out as a hoax, and I was just wondering, who is this guy? (0:31:05)
Yeah. And we got to know each other, and I'll tell you, to me, it's one of the most well-documented UFO cases in history, not just because you have seven witnesses, but because they were lucky enough that law enforcement was involved, and all of them, many of them multiple times, took the polygraph. So, in the documentary that we created out of this, if you mathematically, and I did this, and gave the results, but you're anywhere conservatively from a one in hundreds of thousands of a chance to millions of a chance of these people lying, if you put any faith in the polygraph. (0:31:51)
Now, of course, the polygraph, though, requires you have the person in front of you, and you ask the questions, and so that was one of the dilemmas with Roswell, is we no longer have access to these witnesses. And, gosh, man, I'm thinking now, where else can we use the technology? What other cases, Bob Lazar or all these others, you know, that people who don't even have to cooperate with you, we can apply this and help shed some light on these very iconic cases. (0:32:25)
You revisited a case that got me interested in UFOs when I was a kid, the Betty and Barney Hill case. (0:32:31)

音声(2:59:09)

Ben Hansen - Hudson Valley & Roswell UFO Cases / Marilynn Hughes - Out-of-Body Insights (8/24/21)

動画概要欄

600 views 2021/08/25

▼展開

Coast to Coast AM with George Noory Tuesday Night, August 24th, 2021 @ 10pm PST GUESTS: Ben Hansen, Marilynn Hughes

元連邦捜査官でUFO調査官のベン・ハンセンは、現在ディスカバリー＋でストリーミング配信中の2本のドキュメンタリーに出演している。最新のドキュメンタリー『Alien Invasion：ハドソン・バレーはエイリアンの震源地であり、ニューヨーク州ハドソン・バレーの住民たちが得体の知れない遭遇の説明を見つけるための徹底的な調査である。1980年代にUFO／エイリアン事件が相次いだが、ハンセンはハドソン・バレーでの目撃の歴史を1900年代初頭まで遡ることを明らかにした。彼のチームの調査には、超常現象のコミュニケーションやゴーストハンティングの実験に使われる技術的な装置のいくつかが使われた。ハドソン・バレー、スキンウォーカー・ランチ、マーリー・ウッズといった超常現象のホットスポットには、UFOにとどまらないさまざまな異変があるようだ。ハンセンは、彼らがハドソン・バレーで調査したエイリアン・アブダクションの一人は、彼の家でもポルターガイストや超常現象が起きていたと指摘した。

ロズウェルUFO墜落事故に関する彼のドキュメンタリー・シリーズでは、何年も前にビデオに撮られ、その後亡くなった目撃者の発言のボディランゲージ、声のトーン、文脈をAIソフトウェアを使って分析した。町の葬儀屋グレン・デニスの証言をAIが分析したところ、ほとんどが真実である可能性が高いことがわかったという。(デニスは、軍から子供サイズの棺を提供するよう頼まれ、ロズウェル基地の看護婦と話したが、その看護婦はエイリアンの検死を目撃したと語ったという。）ハンセンはまた、有名なベティとバーニー・ヒルのUFO誘拐事件を再検討した。ベティのドレス（誘拐時に着ていたもの）が検査され、彼女がエイリアンの一人に針を刺されたとされる場所の近くでバイオマターが発見された、と彼は明かした。

後半では、研究者であり作家でもあるマリリン・ヒューズが、彼女が頻繁に体験している体外離脱（OBE）について、そして天使、輪廻転生、地球外生命体、量子意識、死後の世界についての洞察を含め、長年にわたって体外離脱が彼女に教えてきたことについて語った。眠っているときから、深い波動に包まれ、肉体の腕から「霊的な腕」が出てきた。深遠なノイズ "があった - 彼女は今、アストラル平面の音であることを理解し、一種の轟音、しかし当時、彼女は怖がっていた。その後の経験では、光の天の天使が彼女の両側に現れ、優しく彼女を肉体から引きずり出した。体外離脱の間、精神は肉体から切り離され、その背後にある崇高な目的は、神秘的な球体や領域へと旅するための、学習と変容のツールであると彼女は説明した。

体外離脱の間、人は魂のより高い微細な周波数へと導く一種の「浄化」プロセスとして、さまざまなイニシエーションや通過儀礼を経るのだと彼女は続けた。アストラル状態や霊体にいることは、その過程でスピリチュアルな教師から指導を受けることができるので有利である、とヒューズは指摘した。「体外離脱で最初に学ぶことのひとつは、情報は知恵ではないということです。新しい種類の知識を理解できるようになると、その人の波動は上がっていくのです」。彼女のアセンションへの道のりは、煉獄や失われた領域にいる魂や幽霊を助けることだった。詳しくは、彼女の無料ビデオ・ドキュメンタリー『体外離脱体験をする方法』をご覧ください。

ニュースセグメントのゲスト：ジョン・M・カーティス、チャールズ・コップス

Former Federal agent and UFO investigator Ben Hansen is currently featured in two documentaries now streaming on Discovery+. The most recent documentary, Alien Invasion: Hudson Valley, is an in-depth investigation into an alien epicenter, helping residents of the Hudson Valley, NY find explanations for their unearthly encounters. While there was a wave of UFO/alien incidents there in the 1980s, Hansen revealed a history of sightings dating back to the early 1900s in the Hudson Valley. His team's investigation used some of the technological equipment employed in paranormal communication or ghosthunting experiments. Paranormal hot spots like Hudson Valley, Skinwalker Ranch, and Marley Woods seem to have an array of anomalies that go beyond just UFOs. Hansen noted that one of the alien abductees they investigated in Hudson Valley also had poltergeist and paranormal activity in his home.

For his documentary series on the Roswell UFO crash, they used AI software to analyze the body language, tone of voice, and context of statements made by witnesses who were videotaped years earlier but have since died. The AI analysis of the testimony of Glenn Dennis, the town mortician, was found to have a high probability of mostly being true, he reported. (Dennis said the military asked him to provide child-sized coffins, and that he spoke with a nurse at the Roswell base who told him she witnessed an alien autopsy.) Hansen also revisited the famed Betty & Barney Hill UFO abduction case. Betty's dress (that she was wearing during the abduction) was tested, and biomatter was discovered at the spot near where she was reportedly injected with a needle by one of the aliens, he disclosed.

In the latter half, researcher and author Marilynn Hughes talked about her frequent out-of-body experiences (OBEs) and what they have taught her over the years, including insights on angels, reincarnation, extraterrestrials, quantum consciousness, and the afterlife. In one of her early OBEs, from out of sleep, she found herself in a deep vibrational state, in which her "spiritual arm" came out of her physical arm. There were "profound noises" --a kind of roaring, which she now understands is the sound of the astral plane, but at the time, she was frightened. In a subsequent experience, celestial angels of light appeared on each side of her and gently pulled her out of her body. During OBEs, she explained, the spirit is separated from the body, and the higher purpose behind this is as a learning and transformation tool, as one travels into mystical spheres and realms.

During out-of-body journeys, she continued, one goes through various initiations and rites of passage as a kind of "purification" process that leads to higher and finer frequencies of the soul. It's advantageous to be in the astral state or spirit body, as it allows you to be instructed by spiritual teachers along the way, Hughes noted. "One of the first things you learn in out-of-body travel is that information is not wisdom-- vibration is wisdom," she explained. As one becomes capable of understanding new kinds of knowledge, their vibration is raised. Part of her path toward ascension has been to assist souls and ghosts in purgatory or lost realms. For more, check out her free video documentary, How to Have an Out-of-Body Experience.

News segment guests:John M. Curtis,Charles Coppes

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And the Gateway to the West. Good morning, good evening, wherever you may be across the nation, around the world. I'm George Norrie. Welcome to Coast to Coast AM. Later tonight, out-of-body experiences. Here's what's happening. Vice President Kamala Harris' plane was delayed in Singapore for three hours after a possible case of that mysterious Havana syndrome. Less than a week after the United States German diplomats were treated for symptoms of that illness, Harris, currently on a trip to Singapore and Vietnam, where she has just landed in Vietnam, was preparing to leave Singapore when, according to the White House, the delegation was delayed because the Vice President's office was made aware of a report of a recent possible health incident in Hanoi, Vietnam. Something very strange is happening. (0:01:31)

You know, we did a show on this a couple weeks ago, and our special guest believes that it's just mass panic. I think there's something else to this. Somebody's bombarding our embassies with some kind of electronic equipment or something. It's not over yet. According to Dr. Anthony Fauci, he says the U.S. will not emerge from the COVID pandemic until next spring at the earliest. (0:01:52)

I don't know how he knows that. The world-renowned infectious disease expert predicted the coming months will remain very difficult with high caseloads and deaths, especially in places with low vaccination rates. Dr. John Curtis, onlinecolumnist.com, is checking into this story for us. And, John, before we get going here, a lot of football players are being compelled to take the vaccination, yet almost half of them have shown that they're positive for COVID. Well, it makes sense that they would be. (0:02:21)

I mean, you know, and many people, as you know, George, are asymptomatic with it. But, I mean, as far as, like, the crystal ball that Anthony Fauci has, his crystal ball has been wrong about just about everything. So, you know, when they quote him as the world's, you know, or the U.S. leading expert on anything, it's a little bit of a stretch. The man is 80 years of age, should have retired years ago. (0:02:45)

If you listen to him and what he says, it's the most simplistic sort of cliche explanation for everything. George, this Delta virus thing has thrown everybody for a loop right now. And these vaccines are degrading in terms of their efficacy. And they're degrading over time, and it's going to require booster shots for everybody. So, I don't fault Fauci for not having a crystal ball. (0:03:14)

What I fault him for is the absolute lies in promoting Chinese communist propaganda for the last 20 months. He knows that when, you know, there is no evidence that this virus emerged naturally from Wuhan, China, or anywhere else. He knows where it emerged. It emerged from a laboratory. And the proof is in the pudding about this laboratory thing. We've been on this story from practically as soon as this started. (0:03:50)

And we know that the Chinese government, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Zhao Lijing, said two days after the World Health Organization declared a global pandemic that the virus was created in the United States. This is coming from the Chinese government. (0:04:13)

It was created in the United States, and it was planted in Wuhan, China. And then Li Jiang just spoke again on the 26th of May, and he got more specific and said it was made in a bioweapons lab in Fort Detrick, Maryland, and then exported to China. Now, Fauci and the World Health Organization and all the people dismissing the lab leak theory have said nothing about, absolutely nothing, about the Chinese government saying that this was created in the United States. So I don't think you can depend on Fauci for anything he says. (0:04:52)

In fact, you can discount it. He's in friendly territory when he goes on CNN. But I have to tell you that the predictions as to when this is going to be over and how this is going to go, it's going to be very much dependent on whether 90 million Americans finally get with the program and start taking these vaccines that is now, at least the Pfizer BioNTech, has been approved as of, I believe, today or yesterday. (0:05:20)

Yesterday. But here's the problem with that, John. Do they work? We're not sure about this yet. No, I don't think we are sure about it. But one thing we know is that they're diminishing in terms of their efficacy of preventing people from getting COVID. We know that. That's true. Dr. John Curtis, OnlineColumnist.com. Rolling Stones drummer Charlie Watts has died at the age of 80. The music legend passed away just weeks after pulling out of the band's U.S. tour following an emergency operation. (0:05:49)

Watts, regarded as one of rock's greatest drummers, had a successful procedure in London a few weeks ago after a problem was found during a routine checkup. He has passed away 80 years old. A Missouri man who died after rescuing two young relatives from the choppy waters of Lake Michigan is now the fourth person to drown in the lake this summer in the southeastern Wisconsin city of Racine. Sad story there. (0:06:14)

Bitcoin yesterday hit $50,000, finally crossing the closely watched level after more than a month-long run-up in making Bitcoin a near trillion dollar asset once again. It's down to about $48,000 today. Charles Kopp is a financial investment advisor. Chuck, why is this still such a strong, strong investment for people? I can't believe it. It's really catching attention. You know, George, a lot of institutional money is coming into this. (0:06:43)

We talked about this with BlackRock, Bridgewater, and so on. PayPal is also allowing Bitcoin. So it's more of an investment today than a payment system. And I think people are chasing yield, you know, like stocks and everything else. And it's more like a pump and dump because there's a lot of big players in this thing. And one of the concerns going forward is a huge capital gain tax on cryptos. (0:07:10)

You've heard about this. The infrastructure bill, for example, has that included. Today they had a new spending bill. And they're talking about 42% capital gain on these earnings. (0:07:24)

These cryptos. Twice the marginal rate in communist China. You know, someone said the biggest risk for Bitcoin is the success, you know, that it has. Because the governments want a share of all this money that they're making out there, trillions of dollars. Another concern is the security. Coinbase went public in April. They have 70 million users. But they've had thousands of complaints of people being ripped off by hackers with your SIM card on your phone within minutes. (0:07:56)

So it's very hard to recover that. They estimate that 1,500 Bitcoins are stolen every day. That's $70 million. That's a lot of money, Chuck. You know, that's a big issue. Further, you have central banks. They want to launch digital currencies, you know, similar to this, but it's a payment system. More for tax collection or financial inclusion. And it's a total loss of privacy like China. They want to regulate this out of business, I think, someday. (0:08:26)

I think finally the market cap for cryptos right now is $2 trillion. Think of that. Mostly for speculation. I don't see it as a payment system. More like gambling. I mean, a third of that, that would buy a third of all the gold in the world. About 100 times of the silver in the world. It's going to be a huge gain someday when there's a rotation trade, I think, into the metal space. (0:08:54)

So I'm going to stick with pretty much what I know. But, you know, watch this going forward. It's kind of scary, Chuck. Thanks a lot. I really appreciate your work. Diabetes has surged among American children, teenagers, and adolescents in 2017, according to a new federally funded research spanning nearly 20 years, finding a 45% increase in type 1 diabetes and a 95% growth in type 2 diabetes as well. (0:09:22)

Up next, Ben Hanson joins us. We're going to talk about some incredible UFO stories, some ghostly stories, and all kinds of scary things, next on Coast to Coast AM. And welcome back to Coast to Coast. George Norwyth, you've got an amazing show for you tonight. Our first guest, Ben Hanson, does a couple television shows, Shock Docs, Roswell Streaming on Discovery. He's also well known as a television host and lead investigator of sci-fi channels Fact or Faked, Paranormal Files, and has also appeared and produced on several other television programs, such as UFOs Declassified on the Smithsonian and Canada History channels. (0:10:19)

Ben lectures, appears at conferences across the world. And, Ben, you do a great job. I want to compliment you on this, first of all. Well, thank you. Thanks, George. And it's a pleasure, finally, being on with you this evening. I've been getting emails from people all day saying, Ben tweeted that he's going to be on your show. This is great. So you've got a lot of followers out there. (0:10:40)

Oh, good, good. Yeah, we have a lot of... well, I mean, this is kind of the summer of UFOs, really. (0:10:45)

As far as content in the TV world, as everybody knows now, you know, the media is finally latching on to this. And whereas UFOs were kind of a subject of, you know, History Channel, A&E would kind of dabble in it. When I was with SyFy, they would actually do studies on what people liked to see, whether it was... you know, you've done SyFy, you know, as well. (0:11:10)

And they weigh from the surveys what the audience likes most. And it was always like, well, don't do too many UFOs, right? And I think if you were to do that same survey now, people are just so... they can't get enough information about it. This June 25th report that came out from the government, kind of disappointing, huh? Most people in the UFO field expected this. (0:11:32)

They didn't expect much, but it's disappointing nonetheless. What did you think? Well, I didn't have high expectations of it, to be honest. Right. Because I think those who were getting the information, you know, of what was to be expected to come out knew this was very narrow in scope. And if you kind of look at the track record of how the information has been coming out drip by drip, it's almost been forced to where, you know... First of all, we discover it, we get it through a FOIA request or something, we put it in front of the government and say, OK, how can you deny this? And then it takes months or years for them to officially acknowledge, OK, that's ours. (0:12:11)

And so the scope of this preliminary assessment, they call it, was only to look at this as a national security threat. Right? And so I think that's precisely what they did. And when the report comes back and it mentions the word threat, national security, I think at least seven times, to me it's a huge win. I was looking at the timeline of events, and for those who are as big a nerd as I am in the UFO world, you can go back to the General Twining memo, right, in 1947. And even though that was not publicly released, the fact that they addressed the phenomena as something real and not visionary or fictitious, the government to themselves was admitting at the time the phenomena was real. (0:12:59)

The Condon report, of course, refutes that in 1969 and says it's not worth studying, there's no national security threat. So actually this is the first time publicly the government has readily admitted, unequivocally, that it poses a clear threat, they said, to national security. So I think that kind of, it was really fun to watch the skeptics, if we label them as such, you know, the hardcore ones, just kind of go silent for a while and not able to argue that point anymore, that let's start with the base that this is a national security threat, then let's go from there. (0:13:32)

So I think it was a huge win. I'm excited to see where it goes next. (0:13:36)

Yeah, I think there's going to be more. How did you get interested in the field of ufology, Ben? Well, I joke, but I think it was probably the movie E.T. It was one of the first movies I remember seeing, and it inspired me to start taking newspaper clippings and anything that I could find. The 80s was a big time for UFOs. Of course, all we had was newspapers and occasional news stories where they'd snicker at things. (0:14:07)

But my parents were really encouraging, and they would bring me UFO books. I was embarrassed, though. I mean, this was at a time where you couldn't really talk to your neighbors or friends about it without strange stares and looks. I started gathering materials, but when my friends would come over, I'd turn the cover of the communion book around the other way. I didn't want them to see that I was into this. (0:14:33)

This continued on until I was probably in college, when things started breaking about Roswell and things. I learned that my grandfather... and I've shared this before, but for those who haven't heard it, I'll just quickly summarize it. My grandfather was a civil engineer for the Air Force up at Hill Air Force Base in Utah. In Ogden, Utah. He, after World War II, went to work there. (0:15:07)

His specialty, among other things, was working on underground hangar systems and maintaining the allocation of resources of the projects the Air Force had. About 1965, he tells my father, who is 15 years old, I've been called to a special team of sorts. I will be called at a moment's notice, and I can't tell you where I'm going. I don't know when I'll be back, but you're in charge. (0:15:38)

You're going to run the household. He remembers the first time that he was called was the weekend of December 9, 1965. And this turns out to be the day the Kecksburg UFO crash occurred in Pennsylvania. And my dad takes him to the airport. He flies out. He knows he went to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and didn't say when he was coming back, but this continues for many years. (0:16:09)

And towards the end of his life, my dad really got an interest. My grandpa knew I was very interested in the UFO subject. And my grandfather got cancer, and he was very, very sick. And in the process of his chemo treatment, my dad would kind of ping him and kind of poke him and say, Hey, what about this UFO stuff coming out? And sometimes he'd laugh and say that's interesting. (0:16:37)

And other times he would completely shut the subject down and get angry. And so fast forward now to his deathbed. And my father is there holding his hand literally. And he hadn't brought up the subject for quite a while because it upset him. And he turns to my dad and he says, I know what you've been asking me, and I want you to know that we're not alone. (0:17:03)

And you have nothing to fear. (0:17:05)

Take care of your mother. And within minutes, he passes away. And we know he was talking about the UFO subject. The more that we've uncovered was really fun because one of my latest shows, UFO Witness, I interview my father, and in digging through the files of my grandfather, we learn the date of when he was gone to Wright-Patterson. And as many people know, that's the foreign technology division, and where they back engineered and Roswell and everything that went there. (0:17:37)

We learned that he was missing or had gone to Wright-Patterson on at least four or five dates that coincide with major UFO events like Malmstrom Air Force Base, Dexter, Michigan, Kecksburg. And, you know, it's circumstantial at the moment, but it's really exciting to have that thread within the family. Absolutely. It excites me even more. Not quite a deathbed confession, but pretty darn close. (0:18:05)

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, why would... and see, that's the thing. When we hear these deathbed confessions, I really wonder how someone so skeptical could say, well, your grandfather or father just made this up. Exactly. They wouldn't do that. Why would they do that? Their own children. The last thing that you tell them before you leave this earth, you think you're going to just play a joke or lie to them completely knowing they're going to hang on every word you say. (0:18:34)

So I think it counts for quite a bit. I think so, too. And just when we thought we knew everything about Roswell, up comes your show, Roswell, The Final Verdict. Tell me about that. So the producers came to me. It was kind of, you know, like they'd already put together most of the show, and they said, hey, we have this Roswell series. It's six parts. (0:18:59)

And I want to know, like, if you'd like to participate in commenting and leading the audience through the timeline. And I said, okay, first of all, what new leads do you have? Because I've worked a lot with Don Schmidt and been out to the site many times, and we kind of feel like we run into dead ends a lot. They said, well, we have this artificial intelligence AI technology that we are able to take video of the witnesses now that's archival because, of course, nearly all of them are gone. (0:19:32)

They're dead now, and we can take this and run it through this algorithm that University of Maryland and Dartmouth College developed. Now, the only contracts I'm aware of from, you know, talking to the creators of it through them is the government. So government contractors are using this, but it's not really well-known even. And what it does is it takes... uses four modalities. One of them looks at micro-expressions. So that was developed by, you know, Paul Ekman, if people know the show Lie to Me. And you see these little tiny inflections of the face and gestures. (0:20:12)

And it analyzes that by AI now. (0:20:16)

So the computer algorithm is much better at picking these up. And then it now takes voice tonality and stress and is able to also compute that into the program and also the content or content statement analysis, we call it. So whatever words that somebody uses in combination develops a baseline for that particular person. And some of it is linked to deception or stress. (0:20:45)

So you put it all together now and then in the end have a human interpretation of what it all means. And the white paper studies have shown that this can be as accurate as 92%. That's fantastic. Ben, hold on for a second. We're going to hit a break. Let's come back and pick that up right where that is. That's an amazing story. Get daily show updates right to your inbox for free with the Coast Zone newsletter. (0:21:08)

Sign up today at coasttocoastam.com. She would never say where she came from. Yesterday don't matter if it's gone. While the sun is bright or in the darkest night. No one knows. She comes and goes. Goodbye Ruby Tuesday. Who could hang her name on you? When you change with every new day. Still I'm gonna miss you. Don't question why she needs to be so free. (0:22:58)

She'll tell you it's the only way to be. She just can't be changed. To a life where nothing's gained. And nothing's lost. At such a cost. Ruby Tuesday. Who could hang her name on you? When you change with every new day. Still I'm gonna miss you. From the Gateway to the West, this is Coast to Coast AM with George Noory. We're going to take your calls next hour with Ben Hanson as we talk about some incredible UFO programs he's been working on. (0:23:58)

The Shock Docs and also Roswell, The Final Verdict. Those are streaming. We'll tell you about that and how you can watch those shows as well. But we'll take your calls with him next hour. Beyond Belief, that's our television program. And you can enjoy all those episodes when you sign up at beyondbelief.com. But if you just want to sample a few shows, what do we got, Tom? (0:24:19)

Well, all you need to do is head over to beyondbelief.com right now. We have three free episodes that you can watch. Check it out and also check out that free seven-day trial. That'll get you access to over 400 shows that we've done with Beyond Belief. So check it out. The free ones are up there. It's beyondbelief.com. And now's the perfect time for you to build up your immune system. (0:24:38)

HealthyLooking.com and Dr. Alan Molay bring four decades of experience in natural products for the exclusive stem cell wellness kit that works with your body's stem cells to assist your immune system. Here's Dr. Molay with more. Whether it's physical activity, obesity, diet, smoking, low on hormones, stress, sleep disorders, or your age can be supported by reducing inflammation and aiding the body to heal itself appropriately. (0:25:06)

A stem cell is a cell waiting to be told what it needs to be. (0:25:11)

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Dr. Molay, how will I feel after taking Adaptostem and ImmuStem? The ImmuStem is going to have an immediate effect, but I guarantee you that your immune system is starting to function better after 24 hours. You put Adaptostem along with it, you will feel it in 30 minutes. Order now at HealthyLooking.com. The Stem Cell Wellness Kit from Dr. Molay protects your body's stem cells and will make you feel better, faster. (0:26:07)

The Stem Cell Wellness Kit with Adaptostem and ImmuStem and your free gift relaxall is only available at HealthyLooking.com or it's all free at 800-563-3980. That's 800-563-3980. Don't forget to enter promo code George for free shipping. George's Stem Cell Wellness Kit at HealthyLooking.com. That's HealthyLooking.com. Welcome back to Coast to Coast. George Nori with you along with Ben Hanson. Ben, with this special technology that can be used, I assume, on people who have died, but they're on videotape? (0:27:00)

Yeah, so it could be video. We could also do it with just an audio file. And then also just with written statements. Of course, if you have all three, or at least have them on video speaking, we can apply all the different modalities to it. And gosh, what was so cool, though, when they told me this, I was like, okay, well, sign me up. Let's do the show. (0:27:25)

And so they would sit me in a chair and basically I had no forewarning how the results went with these different interviews. And they would just lay it on me right there. So my reaction to most of it, I would say, was just as I expected. So a couple examples. Those familiar with the Roswell story know the story of Glenn Dennis, the mortician, and this Nurse X. So Glenn claims that the air base at Roswell called him. (0:27:59)

He was the town mortician and ambulance driver, and started asking him questions about how many child-sized caskets could he get that were hermetically sealed, and how do you preserve bodies that have been out laying in the elements for a long time? And he thought, this is really weird. So then he finds himself driving to the base, and his story is that he was taking an airman in the ambulance to the base. (0:28:28)

And then while he's there, he goes to the hangar where the debris was stored, and sees the debris and a nurse that he meets, who tells him to get out of there and later draws him pictures of the autopsy of these beings. So you take the whole story into account, and what's really extraordinary is that with a high probability, this AI predicts that he was telling the truth on most of it, except for the part about why he was on the base. (0:29:02)

And so the conspiracy there is that he probably knew this nurse maybe was having some sort of an affair. (0:29:09)

And so, you know, not every story is going to be straight up, you know, everyone's telling the truth. This is how witnesses disclose things. Another really quick one was the... well, first of all, Matt Brazel, the rancher, and Jesse Marcel, every one of those came out as telling the truth as to what they handled and what they saw. That's amazing. It is. (0:29:38)

And when you put it all together, the whole idea of this show in a six-part series is, could you take this case, could you take Roswell to court, and say there's a preponderance of the evidence? And I think you could take it to criminal court, and you could say beyond a reasonable doubt that something happened there that was not from this world. And it's just a great series, and I was really happy that they had this new angle on it. (0:30:06)

Tell me a little bit about your work with Travis Walton, friend of our program, and of course, during his episode, which was turned into a movie called Fire in the Sky, he and his logger friends all passed polygraph tests. Yeah, and so, having done work when I used to work for the federal government, I've taken multiple polygraphs as a pre-employment thing, and I'll tell you, those of you listeners who have had to do it for work or otherwise, you probably know it's one of the most horrible experiences. They're awful. I hate them. (0:30:39)

And they're not completely accurate, but the white paper studies on those placed them anywhere from about 80 to, they claim up to 95% accuracy. So, Travis became a friend of mine about 2012, and I was filming Fact or Faked, and so he was very skeptical of me, thinking I was trying to point it out as a hoax, and I was just wondering, who is this guy? (0:31:05)

Yeah. And we got to know each other, and I'll tell you, to me, it's one of the most well-documented UFO cases in history, not just because you have seven witnesses, but because they were lucky enough that law enforcement was involved, and all of them, many of them multiple times, took the polygraph. So, in the documentary that we created out of this, if you mathematically, and I did this, and gave the results, but you're anywhere conservatively from a one in hundreds of thousands of a chance to millions of a chance of these people lying, if you put any faith in the polygraph. (0:31:51)

Now, of course, the polygraph, though, requires you have the person in front of you, and you ask the questions, and so that was one of the dilemmas with Roswell, is we no longer have access to these witnesses. And, gosh, man, I'm thinking now, where else can we use the technology? What other cases, Bob Lazar or all these others, you know, that people who don't even have to cooperate with you, we can apply this and help shed some light on these very iconic cases. (0:32:25)

You revisited a case that got me interested in UFOs when I was a kid, the Betty and Barney Hill case. (0:32:31)

And I wonder if you could put, because Betty is on camera talking to us, you know, some anchor people and talk show hosts over the years. I wonder if you could use that on her, too. You're thinking along the very same lines that I am. You know, I'm supposed to be... Tom Schneider, I think she was interviewed. Yeah, yeah, we have a lot of those witnesses on tape. (0:32:59)

And we, of course, have Betty and Barney's hypnosis tapes. And we have everything there. On my show UFO Witness, we went into that case and we met with, you know, Denise, Kathleen Martin, and actually went up to New Hampshire to the university. I think one of the biggest breakthroughs for me, sometimes when we do these shows, we hope for the best. But, you know, for what they say, TV gold, and just the sheer joy of the discovery and my own passion for it, we hope we come up with something new. (0:33:36)

And for those who know the story, you know, Betty and Barney Hill coming down from a trip to Canada, back to their home in New Hampshire, the interrupted journey, you know, the missing time, the craft that follows them, and then, you know, they wake up 30 miles away. And so through hypnosis, we learn very, very similar accounts from both of them, yet they had no way to bring out the same details. (0:34:08)

Now, Betty, allegedly, according to her dreams and her hypnosis, she believes that she was brought on board and examined with a very, I think, would be terrifying medical exam, although she didn't feel that way. And they inserted inside of her abdomen what the beings told her was sort of like a pregnancy test. Amniocentesis, one of those probes. Yeah. Amniocentesis is what we would think of it now, and sticks this needle in her abdomen. (0:34:40)

And now she's wearing this dress, and the famous Betty dress is in the archives, the special archives at the university. And so we obtained permission with Kathleen there to bring the dress out, and I had the idea of taking a black light, a UV light, which I wasn't sure this had ever been done. We took it into a dark room, and I found some stains. (0:35:10)

Now, Kathleen had had a few stains tested before, which indicated some sort of DNA that was Betty's. But what we discovered was we turned the lining of her dress inside out. So if you imagine if you were having an exam and they poked a needle through you, you're going to have bodily fluids coming out and contacting the inside of that lining. The curious thing was this stain did not go through to the outer side of the dress. (0:35:45)

So right off the bat we were able to say, well, it's not wine, it's not food, it's not something like that, because it would be on the outside going in. And we had this analyzed. We did have a sample already of Betty's DNA before she passed. (0:36:03)

It comes up that it is her organic material. They're not able to determine, though, if it was bile or intestinal or blood. But to me, the implications are quite big. It was in an area directly over where her navel would have been. In 1971, Ben, I had a chance to interview Dr. Benjamin Simon, their psychiatrist. And I asked him specifically if they were telling the truth. (0:36:32)

And he said, they're not lying. I don't know what happened to them. But whatever happened to them, they both believe it is true. And that was an amazing revelation all by itself. And that's what you consistently hear, and that's what you want to hear from your professionals who have nothing to gain by this. It's an objective statement that says, I believe they believe. (0:36:57)

And that is huge, because other people would come on and say, well, they concocted it, they hoaxed it. Everything from those sessions, everything from those tapes, as he indicates, tells him this was a traumatic and real event. Now, could they have imagined it all? He leaves that possibility open. But now we have physical corroborating evidence to what she says, that there was some sort of biological fluid right in the abdomen region that is hers, only on the inside. (0:37:31)

So, indicating she was wearing the dress. Now, she hung the dress up that night after she got home the next day and never touched it again. She felt dirty. They showered and left that dress as it was and as it is now in the museum. So, I mean, these little discoveries, it just excites me so much, because we're still adding to these cases we thought had gone cold. (0:37:56)

In UFO Witness, which you can see streaming on Discovery, you looked at the J. Allen Hynek case of Dexter, Michigan, did you, where he talked about swamp gas? Yeah, so, UFO Witness... And that haunted him, by the way. It did, you know, and one of my regrets, I met so many of my very favorite people I'd read about and unfortunately never got to meet him. (0:38:24)

As people know, the Dexter, Michigan case was something of a turning point for him where he finally kind of had enough and he felt like he'd been a patsy for the Air Force. Yeah, like they forced him to say something like that. Precisely, so we spoke with Sheriff Harvey. Sheriff Harvey went with Hynek to Frank Manor's farm, which is where a lot of this UFO flapping occurred. (0:38:51)

And dozens of witnesses in Dexter, and he goes to the farm, he spends all day with Hynek. Hynek's interviewing Frank Manor and getting statements and looking at where the object had flown. He goes back now, and on the drive back to the police station, Sheriff Harvey asks Hynek, and he says, So what do you think? What do you make of all this? And he looks at him, and he's puzzled, and Hynek tells him, I have no idea. I absolutely don't know what's going on. (0:39:28)

They get there, and all of a sudden there's a press conference. (0:39:32)

And I don't know if they were expecting them there, but the press is waiting for Hynek to come down with his decision on this case. And his staff of the police department, the chief staff comes in and says, Hey, Dr. Hynek, you have a call from Washington. And he goes into the back room, and he's only in there for about a minute. And the sheriff told me, he said when he came out, Hynek's face completely changed. (0:40:04)

And he looked at him, and he said, It was swamp gas. And he said, What? Just a minute ago you told me you had no idea what this was. And he says, I just talked to D.C. It was swamp gas. And when he goes up to tell that to the press, of course there's that famous point where they're ridiculing him. Even the press won't accept this. (0:40:27)

And he knows that he's kind of become a patsy to the whole thing. And of course then this kind of changes his mind on the whole phenomenon. It did, and the one case that really changed his mind was the Lonnie Zamora police officer case in Socorro, New Mexico. And after talking to Zamora, that totally convinced Hynek there's something else going on here. And he became a believer all of a sudden. (0:40:53)

Yeah, I think, and I love these stories because so many researchers, all you need is an open mind. But he even knew from the beginning it seems that he was supposed to, quote unquote, solve these cases to quell the public fear. During that series we had Jenny Zeidman who met him at the university where he was teaching. And Jenny, unfortunately she passed away during our filming, but she was just a wealth of knowledge. (0:41:26)

I remember talking to her and she would just, every meeting she'd leak out a little more information. It would blow us away. So she eventually told us Hynek would get, once a week a van would arrive at the observatory with a file. A courier would come out and would give him the cases that he was supposed to solve. So this delivery person was very mysterious. (0:41:51)

Well, she asked him about it and one day Hynek opened up and said, you know that you're really not working for the Air Force, right, on Project Blue Book, but a contractor. Now she thought this courier was coming from right field, from the Air Force base, right in that area. But one day she looks up the license plate of this guy who's dropping off the stuff and she was able to get someone to look up who the vehicle belonged to. (0:42:22)

She got a name, looked it up in the phone book, and she learned that he was working for the Battelle Institute. Now, a lot of people know Battelle because that was alleged to be, you know, anyone from Philip Corso to many others saying that the back engineering of debris from Roswell and crashes, the metallurgy lab, all of that, a lot of it went to Battelle. Wow. And here, Hynek, who thinks he's working directly for the Air Force, what does a third-party, you know, contractor have to do with, you know, giving out these assignments? (0:43:04)

A lot of strange things going on there, Ben. Ben, we're at the top of the hour. Let's come back and pick up that. (0:43:09)

You also sent us a couple of EVPs, electronic voice phenomena. We'll talk about that, and maybe we'll even play a couple of them. And then we'll take calls on Coast to Coast AM. Don't forget to watch our TV show, Beyond Belief, with George Norrie. Simply go to beyondbelief.com. I don't want to hear about it anymore It's a shame I've got to live without you anymore There's a fire in my heart A pounding in my brain It's driving me crazy We don't need to talk about it anymore Yesterday is just a memory. Can we close the door? (0:44:38)

I just made one mistake. I didn't know what to say when you called me baby. Don't say goodnight. Say you're gonna stay forever. Oh, baby. Can you take me? To talk to George Norrie, call the wildcard line at 818-501-4109. The first time caller line is 818-501-4721. To talk toll free from east of the Rockies, call 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies toll free, call 800-618-8255. To reach George via Skype, use Skype name George97313. Send George a text message anytime at 818-298-6521. From the Gateway to the West, this is Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie. Our special guest Ben Hanson this hour. (0:46:02)

We're talking about the amazing television programs he has hosted and investigated. And we're gonna take your calls this hour and talk more about that. He also sent us a couple EVPs. We'll talk about that and play them, too, when we come back. Seacrane CC Pocket Radio is one of the most popular pocket radios out there on the market today. It has unbeatable AM and FM reception. (0:46:22)

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C-C-R-A-N-E dot com. C-C-R-A-N-E dot com. C-C-R-A-N-E dot com. Also available at REI, BuyMart, and Amazon.com. And welcome back. Ben Hanson with us. His website, by the way, is his name, linked up at coasttocoastam.com. Ben, before we get more into some of these incredible stories, where can people see your shows and the streaming that you've got going on? (0:48:02)

So, yeah, the Discovery Plus app, which launched earlier this year, has all the reruns, I think, of Factor Faked on there, Ghosts of Morgan City, and then the recent stuff, UFO Witness. And I think it was just last week the Hudson Valley, Alien Invasion, Hudson Valley special was put on there. And then, of course, we have the six-part series of the Roswell final verdict. So it's all up on the Discovery Plus app. (0:48:34)

Super. Let's talk a little bit more about Hynek, and then we'll get into some of these EVPs that you sent us, and tell us where you obtained them and what they might be, and then we'll let people listen to them. But Hynek was an incredible individual. Have you met his son, Paul? You know, I haven't. Great guy. So many people that we have these, you know, connections between, and I'd really love to work with him. He sounds like it. (0:48:58)

Yep. And, you know, Dad has told him a lot of things and became a staunch believer. But was there anything that, everything you've covered, was there anything that shocked you? Well, yeah. I mean, I do investigations both on and off TV, of course. Right. And I'd say, you know, when it started, we were filming Factor Faked, was, you know, ended in about 2012. So three seasons of that, I would say we probably explained, I don't know, at least two-thirds of the things had some sort of explanation, and we felt pretty comfortable, and then the other third we didn't. The ones that stand out to me most was we had, for example, a case that was in the U.K., and there was a woman who had a, I guess you could call it typical, if that's even fair to say about a UFO sighting. (0:49:53)

But she had this disc that she saw out her backyard, and it was across the way of this railway station, and it was hovering in a field, and she went in to tell her husband about it. She'd been watching it for a while, and he was fast asleep. So she laid down and knows that she was awake, but she had this experience of being, you know, lifted from her bed and taken and examined, and it terrified her. (0:50:23)

So this happened, I believe, a couple of times to where she told her husband, I don't feel like I can even go to sleep because they're taking me. She literally tied a string from her wrist to her husband's, hoping that he would wake up. Now her husband was a... and this is what makes it more interesting. He sold DVRs for security systems, and he said, well, I'm going to set up a security system here, and we'll, you know, rest assured if there's anything happening to you at night that the camera will pick it up. (0:50:56)

And one morning she woke up, and she said, I had another dream, or whatever felt like a dream. (0:51:02)

It was so surreal, and he said, well, I've got to go to work. You check the tape. So she's watching the DVR, and it captures this incredible footage of what looks like both of them in bed, and she rolls over, and where her form is under the sheets, they completely dissolve and flatten out. And she appears to... Like her legs are gone and stuff like that? (0:51:28)

Everything. Her whole body flattens out to where she's no longer in the bed for about 13 minutes. And then suddenly she... the sheets kind of turn over like a form is coming back under the sheets, and she's suddenly back in her bed. Like they beamed her up or something. I have no idea, but we had this analyzed by JPL. They said there was no doctoring of the footage. (0:51:55)

It's really hard to do that and then load it back onto a DVR system. And if anything, it was the most strange illusion you've ever seen. But it was cases like that that just... I believe that person, like you said, Betty Barney Hill, I believe she believed what happened to her, and we have no explanation for it. Tell us about alien invasion of Hudson Valley, which is just... Most people, if you're into the UFO subject, you've heard there was a UFO flap in the 80s. I remember it. I was cutting out the newspaper articles. (0:52:34)

Primarily from 1983 to 1984. The book Night Siege, I think, was one of the last projects that Hynek was part of. I think it was published after he died, but he was involved in the investigation. And then we also have to thank Linda Zimmerman for her contributions in the Hudson Valley. So this is just about an hour out of New York City, involved Connecticut. Well, when I learned about it, they claimed at the time there were over 5,000 UFO encounters during those couple years span. (0:53:14)

But in getting further into it, I learned that this had been going on since the early 1900s. So in this special that just recently was put up on the app, we went up to Hudson Valley and with a couple of... my cohorts, we talked to the locals and tried to find the reason why in the past decade there's been over 3,000 different sightings and encounters. (0:53:45)

We, of course, call this a hotspot. Now, the thing that's unique about it is just like some other places we can name, and you and I both know them very well, but, you know, Skinwalker Ranch, Ted Phillips and Marley Woods, these usually rural areas, but I like to think of them as like a parapalooza of paranormal everything going on. It's not just the UFO sightings. (0:54:12)

In the show, we actually investigate the house of one of these alleged abductees who has a lot of what you would describe as poltergeist or other paranormal things going on. And I've always thought that if we subscribe or are open to an interdimensional possibility to alien encounters, then you're probably also going to have these other dimensions, if you call it that, where other things are occurring. (0:54:47)

You know, Bigfoot, ghosts and all that, you know, like is there a unified theory we could point to? (0:54:54)

Are they related at all? And so we kind of look into that, and for me it's even a stretch, but if you look at the theories that are coming out, you know, with quantum physics now, and the scientists saying in multidimensional theories, we can actually say the word wormhole, we can say vortex, we can say things of that nature and be open to the possibility. (0:55:19)

And let me tell you, taking ghost hunting equipment and investigating using EVPs or REM pods and things of that nature to look for extraterrestrials, we call this crossover technology, right? We're borrowing from other types of research, but we really don't know what we're going to find, and it's hard to categorize, and that's what Hudson Valley, to me, something is going on. Why? Is it the people? Is there something unique about them? Or is it the region? Is there something in the geology? (0:55:52)

You know, there's a lot of granite, there's a lot of unique geological features in that area, but a whole lot of encounters, and some of them are quite frightening. Or is there a portal out there? Yeah, I mean, that's the theory. Is it a bus stop? Literally, is it a place where, if they're coming from other worlds, where they can easily transit? Because is the energy just right to where... is it a certain time period? (0:56:26)

I'm trying to look at the patterns of how many years we see these peaks. Does it have something to do with the fact that there's a lot of water, which we know is also associated with the river and the basin and everything that comes through there? Ben, you sent us a couple EVPs. Tell us where they came from. Sure. So this kind of dovetails into the EVP thing. (0:56:48)

So I would categorize this as a typical paranormal. So this was not part of the UFO research, but I included it because when we're looking for... as many people know, we kind of divide... the prime thinking on this is that you have residual hauntings and you have active hauntings. Now this, to me, is one of my best... I guess persuades me to believe there's such thing as an active haunting, where whoever's on the other side knows what's going on. They're interacting with you directly. (0:57:22)

Okay, so we were at the Sedansville Rectory, which is in Ohio. Sedansville, Ohio, outside of Cincinnati. And this has a history of, you know, kind of a very sordid... things that happened there at the facility of Boy's School. And at any rate, we're leading this public event and you'll hear in the background an eight-year-old. I think it was eight years old. He came on the investigation. (0:57:50)

So he's talking and he says something about, like, hey, look at these lights. They turn on and off. And I honestly wasn't paying much attention to him. And I said, yeah, I don't know. But you're going to hear another child's voice, I believe it was a child, coming in that is not him. (0:58:06)

Now, the first file I think I sent you that was labeled enhanced is the longer version of that. And so I'm not going to plant in people's heads what they're hearing until you hear that voice say two words. And then the second file is it just isolated. All right, we're going to play them both and then you can come back and tell us what we listen to, OK? (0:58:28)

Sounds good. All right, let's play the first one. That one and that one. Are they the same ones that were coming out in the other room? Yeah. They like to turn on for sure. Hmm. They're supposed to turn on something else. That was pretty quick. So what did we hear there, Ben? So I just picked up the audio towards the end of the two words to focus in on. (0:58:54)

And I think it becomes very clear here. You're hearing my name. And you hear this other entity that was not present. We couldn't see or hear, says Ben Hanson. So if you play the isolated, you'll hear it pretty clear. All right, let's play the other one. Hmm. Yep, there it is right there. So you can imagine when I heard that... I mean, where else would it come from? (0:59:22)

It's weird, isn't it? Well, you would think if somebody in that room was whispering my name right against the microphone, I would have remembered this as odd. You would have seen the person. You would have heard what they were saying. Yeah, yeah. And so I joke when I do these lectures that there's a spirit present who knows who I am because they have Sci-Fi or Discovery Channel over on the other side. (0:59:50)

Or there's some other thing at play. They just overheard the voice being spoken. But these are things that we look for that just make us really excited because there's no other way that I know of that this could just be introduced on Summary Quarter without knowing it. Now, the Travel Channel is going to air in September a program called Alien Encounters Declassified. Tell us about that. (1:00:17)

So this is a video kind of review of bringing people to speech. So finally, we have a lot more people's attention. A lot of people now not only are just sort of curious about UFOs, but this has been the frustration of a lot of researchers where whether we're being interviewed by the media or you're talking to your next door neighbor, they want to know about UFOs. But as you know, UFO research is more historical. (1:00:52)

And to bring people up to speed, the UAP report mentions nothing about Project Blue Bug, nothing about 1947. And so what this does is takes the audience on kind of a review of what just happened during the summer. What does it mean with the disclosure we're seeing? And then what are people now seeing? And trying to make some comparisons with various objects that people are filming. (1:01:21)

And it's called Alien Encounters Declassified. So I do a little bit of analysis, a little bit of just kind of explaining to people these really wild and crazy videos and trying to help people make sense of all this. (1:01:35)

What do you think about disclosure, Ben? Do you think it's going to happen? Well, I'm optimistic. I don't know, compared to others though, that it's going to happen as quickly as they want. Here's, really quickly, some people have heard the analogy that Lou Elizondo has given. And he says, imagine you lock up your house and you set your alarm system every night and you go around and close your doors and windows. (1:02:08)

And you go to sleep. And in the morning you wake up, the alarm hasn't gone off, but you see muddy footprints. And they're tracked all the way through your house. And does it make you concerned? Yes. Because let's say this has gone on every night for years, decades. And you don't know who's in your house. You don't know how to get there. Now nothing's stolen, nothing is broken, but somebody's been in your house. (1:02:34)

I like to add to that analogy and say, let's say you have evidence that somebody, maybe you suspect your spouse is cheating on you when you're out of town. So the suspecting spouse is us. We're the American people. Suspecting that we're not getting the full truth when we leave our house. And so the government admits to you, yeah, someone's coming over. But it's probably not the Amazon delivery driver. It's probably not the milkman. (1:03:06)

But we don't know who it is, and we're not really going to speculate on that. But we will put up more security cameras and start asking questions. Because we're starting to get concerned. Have you talked with Luis Alexandro yet? We have had several, you know, kind of proposed times we were going to get together, and it just hasn't happened. I would have liked to have gotten your reaction, whether you think he's a true whistleblower or a government plant to kind of lead us in a different direction. (1:03:38)

I think once he got out of the circle, I think he's kind of like just about everybody else. He's frustrated. I think he wants the truth just like everybody. But it's that same analogy to where now that the government, if there are secret keepers, I think it's such a small group. And that's my whole feeling on disclosure is that it has gone so much into private contractors. (1:04:06)

The PR people who are answering the phones for the Navy and giving these statements, I don't even think that they have the clearance to know. And so they could be very well telling the truth as they know it. And the rest of us, and even them, are trying to scramble together and say, well, where are the pieces? Where is the evidence from the 40s and 50s? What do we really know? (1:04:31)

And you see a lot of confusion. That's why I don't think it's just going to come together and there's some file they're going to lay on us. I think there needs to be more cohesion and more pressure put for whoever the secret keepers are to finally come out. (1:04:46)

Ben Hanson with us as we're talking about his works in the paranormal field of UFO investigations. How many different shows have you done? Different kinds of shows? Oh, goodness. It's a lot. I'd say a few dozen different ones. Everything from hosting a couple series that went several seasons to documentaries to just consulting. And the thing is, I kind of have my hand in all the genres. (1:05:18)

Everything from the ghosts to the UFOs to mermaids. And I think that's what I love. Finding maybe a thread that there is some unified sort of theory that a lot of people only focusing on one particular type won't be able to really maybe borrow from. And I think when you talk to Jacques Vallée, you talk to these people who were considered maybe too advanced for their time. (1:05:51)

Oh, no, no, let's not talk about interdimensional beings. And now it's kind of the thing of the day to worry about the government saying it's possible these things exist in other dimensions. Ben, we're going to come back and take calls as promised next on Coast to Coast Day. Don't forget to watch our TV show, Beyond Belief with George Norrie. Just log on to beyondbelief.com. To talk to George Norrie, call the wildcard line at 818-501-4109. The first time caller line is 818-501-4721. To talk toll free from east of the Rockies, call 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies toll free, call 800-618-8255. To reach George via Skype, use Skype name George97313. Send George a text message anytime at 818-298-6521. From the Gateway to the West, this is Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie. And we'll be back in a moment with Ben Henson and we're going to take your phone calls on Coast to Coast AM as we talk about his incredible investigations in the UFO field and EVPs and all those great things. (1:08:56)

Next hour, Marilyn Hughes joins us as we talk about out-of-body experiences on Coast to Coast. Now if you've ever missed a program, if you were a Coast Insider, you wouldn't miss. Listen to these folks. I'm a Coast Insider because now I have 24-7 access to the best show ever, Coast to Coast AM. Hi, it's Teresa. I love being an Insider because the shows I listen to, I always appreciate the diversity of thoughtful insights it brings me on a variety of topics on Coast to Coast. The show has challenged me to think deeper and to broaden my horizon. (1:09:38)

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That's code George14 at HelloFresh.com slash George14. We are back with Ben Hanson and your phone calls here on Coast to Coast. Ben, do you think the Hudson Valley case will ever be officially disclosed? You know, there's a lot of documentation out there. I just don't know that... One of the problems, of course, is finding a central place where we can collect all the stories. (1:13:34)

And then, how much is the government involved? (1:13:36)

You know, there were cases where these objects were flying over nuclear facilities. It's all wrapped up with the whole effort to try and get all of these things released. Let's go to the phones. West of the Rockies, Craig is with us in Santa Barbara, California. Welcome, Craig. Go ahead. Hello, Craig. Nope, he's not there. (1:14:05)

Let's try Bill in Los Angeles, though. Go ahead, Bill. Hi, George and Ben. Hi, there. I'm glad that Ben mentioned history, which I think is the key to the UFO mysteries. As a former newspaper writer and history teacher, I've concluded that disclosure actually already happened in 1952 under President Truman when he confirmed the UFO flyover of D.C. in July. And there were four empirical factors, unlike psychological analysis, which is interesting. (1:14:32)

But there are four empirical factors that converged at that time, which were President Truman's confirmation, multiple military witnesses and military radar hits, non-digital photographic evidence that couldn't be explained as manipulated. And last, we knew the limits of U.S. and Soviet technology, none of which could explain what people photographed and saw. And I think these four factors, unfortunately, can never and will never converge again. So we need to look back to find the truth. (1:15:02)

Did you look at that 1952 case? It's an incredible series of UFO flaps over the Capitol, Ben. Yeah, yeah, I have looked into that. And, you know, one of my good friends, Mark Magruder, his father, Black Mac Magruder, was actually called to the Pentagon that night. And it happened over two weekends, and they, of course, didn't know what was going on or how to stop it. (1:15:28)

And he was there in the war room in the Pentagon. Having been to Wright-Patterson, he saw the debris in the bodies. Now, he's a, you know, World War II hero, Colonel in the Air Force, and he didn't know who you could tell. He said, I looked around the room, and I didn't know who was briefed into this, and I didn't know what I could say. (1:15:46)

And so I agree. I think, Bill, that was a very, gosh, iconic case that a lot of people just sort of forgot about. And we haven't ever really had the government come out at that level and admit as much as what they don't know. So I think we're almost there again, but who knows? Let's go to Brian. State of Washington. Welcome to the show. (1:16:07)

Hi, Brian. Excellent. Hi, George. Hi, Ben. Hey, Brian. My question, Ben, you were talking about, I believe it was your grandfather's, I guess to say, deathbed confession. And I was wondering what you thought of Philip J. Corso, of his confession, what he was trying to put out, you know, not trying, he did. And one of my friends, while I've been on hold, I think that Corso, one of my friends, make sure you lay it out there, but I don't know if it's true, that Corso was on Coast to Coast AM July 23rd, 1997. Now, I don't know if that's true, but I was just wondering your guys' thoughts on that. (1:16:59)

I think he was. Bill Burns, a friend of ours, wrote the book, The Day After Roswell, with Corso about that. Did you ever investigate that, Ben? (1:17:07)

Well, you know, interestingly, you bring up my grandfather and Corso on the same thing. My grandfather, when he was going through his treatment, would watch Unsolved Mysteries with my dad. And one day, Philip Corso came up, talking about Roswell and Wright-Patterson, and my grandpa sat back and said, oh, good old Phil. My dad looked at him and said, you know this guy? And he said, yeah. And he suddenly kind of went quiet, but he'd seen him at Wright-Patterson and knew him on a first-name basis. (1:17:40)

I personally, I know that even Bill, you know, well, Phil said that he didn't have final edit on that book. And unfortunately, that's what happens to a lot of really good stories, is that, you know, sometimes there's embellishments. I tend to believe that 80-90% of that, I would go along with and say that probably really all happened. But there are some inaccuracies in it. And, you know, Bill Burns is an acquaintance as well, and I know he did the best he could from what he was told. (1:18:12)

That's right. So we really just really don't know where the inaccuracies are, but he did work where he worked, and I believe probably did the dispersing to the private companies, like you said. We go to Virginia in Los Angeles. Welcome to the program. Hi, Virginia. Hi, George. Hi, Ben. I'm so excited to talk to you. I wanted to tell you, my mother had experience with these interdimensional beings. (1:18:37)

She did? What happened? In the early 50s, my mother was living up in Santa Paula, which is near Santa Barbara, and she said it happened during the day and that these... She said it's hard because she told the story about 50, 60 years after it happened, that these people came to see her to ask her questions. She said that they showed up in something that looked like a bus, and she said the damn thing... Jesus, I hope I didn't curse... that it kind of faded into the air. (1:19:11)

Now, it sounds like a really weird story, but we're related to Roger Ramey, so I think that what happened was true. She said she was afraid to touch them, but that they looked completely human and that she wasn't afraid of them. And they asked her questions, and she goes, you know, I think they came a couple of times and that it happened during the day. (1:19:34)

How did you feel about that, Virginia, when your mother told you that? Well, I had told her, because we knew about Roger. Roger was first cousin of my grandfather, so I knew he was in charge of Australia, and that was the reason my grandfather was stationed in Australia. But I found out that he was also in charge of Roswell, and so I kind of understood, oh, that's why we're so interesting. (1:19:57)

So I felt part of it, it's either a very lucid dream or it really happened, but I truly believe it did happen, just because of all the things that have happened in our lives. (1:20:07)

It's a great story. Ben, small world, isn't it? Well, thanks, Virginia. Yeah, I agree with you. I always look at things, you know, kind of skeptically when I hear things that sound far-fetched, but, you know, I've investigated cases like Pascagoula, Mississippi, and the Hopkinsville case, where you're talking about little gremlins, and you would think to throw all that out right away. But the witnesses, the telling of the events seems so credible, despite the details, and so I keep an open mind to all those things. (1:20:40)

As we were listening to those EVPs sounds, Ben, I was curious to see what your thoughts are on what you really think is happening with those. Well, we can prove that EVPs can be transmitted by electromagnetic fields, and I can do an experiment to show you how that occurs from one recorder to another. So I would tend to believe that's what's happening, and I just don't know whether those spirits or entities are consciously doing it, it's something they've learned to do, or if we're just picking it up by happenstance because our technology is improving. (1:21:17)

Good point. Craig's back, Santa Barbara, California. Go ahead, Craig. Well, I hope the cell phone don't cut out again, I think the NSA's got me pegged. My dad was U.S. Air Force Strategic Air Command in the B-36 stationed out of Washington from Fairchild Air Force Base, and he always told me about the story about how the B-36 went down in Alaska, shot all the engines off, stacked it right into the mountain, they bailed out, they jettisoned the bomb in the ocean, and he told me the whole time until the day he died about that story. (1:21:48)

Wow. Wow. Yep, a lot of hot spots like that, and Alaska's another area, you know, where a lot of strange things happen, and as researchers we love that, because we can get in there and try to figure out what's unique about it. Well, that plane always had a hydrogen bomb on board, so that was why they stacked it, I think. It just flew around the country and the world, didn't it? (1:22:12)

Well, that thing could fly for 48 hours. It had six Pratt & Whitney 28-cylinder pusher props on the rear and four JB-47s on the wings. Yep, in those days it was on call all the time, wasn't it? Yeah, I mean, they always had bombs. The 99th was nothing but a bomb wing. That was before the high technology of missiles, to be sure. Craig, thanks for that. I appreciate that. (1:22:36)

Gerald is with us in Lake George, New York. Hi, Gerald. Thanks for calling. Go ahead. Yes, I had George and Mr. Hanson. What wonderful stories. Thank you. I'm so thrilled to hear these stories tonight. Like you, when I was a kid, I just read as much as I could. I remember Frank Edwards. Yep. All his books and stories. He was a great journalist. Great journalist. (1:23:10)

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I enjoyed all of those stories. (1:23:14)

What I did want to ask you is what caught my attention a few months ago. They did a series on TV about it. But the situation in Juneau, Alaska, apparently thousands of people have been abducted and have gone missing. And they've been investigating for years now, and nobody has come up with anything. And there have been sightings of UFOs, and there was a movie about it. (1:23:45)

Was it Nome, Alaska? I thought it was Nome, Alaska. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. Nome. You know what it was? They had to fly out of Juneau to get to Nome. Right. But it's an isolated place. What is your take on that? Well, the movie you're talking about, I think, wasn't that the fourth kind. That's it. Yeah, I found footage. It was fun. It was a very fun film. (1:24:15)

I actually, I know someone who got to talk to the director, I think it was, trying to get them to admit that it was completely faked because it fooled a lot of people. It didn't fool me. I thought it was just a fun film. But the facts that they put in there, supposedly at the end of so many people being lost, I did look into that. (1:24:36)

I really couldn't find anything to it. However, I do think there might be some embellishment in the movie, but it is known as a hotspot. What is not known is really what's causing, it's a very wilderness area, you know, like a lot of places. Sure. And there are some disappearances, not as many as the movie portrayed. Exactly. So there are many disappearances. I just don't know if the facts of the movie they're using as a backdrop are completely accurate. (1:25:06)

But it is one of those areas, the Alaskan Triangle, we call it, is one of those places where all sorts of weirdness goes on. Have you interviewed David Politis, who's written books about missing people? Yeah, I've talked to him. We were actually working, trying to do a project together before he did his own documentary. Yeah, he did a good job. Very, very intelligent. A lot of research that he's put his career into, and we owe a lot to him for that phenomenon. (1:25:35)

Former police investigator. Were you a federal agent? I was, yeah. I worked in the position of special agent for the FBI for a short period of time. And primarily, though, I was investigating child sex crimes before I went into that. So I interviewed thousands of people, very heinous things. Oh my God, yeah, I bet. Put them away. Put them all away, huh? Let's go to Warren in San Antonio, Texas. First time caller. (1:26:05)

Hello, Warren. How you doing, sir? Good, thank you. I got a question. I think in the 80s, I was listening to Coast to Coast on my computer, and Art Bell had a website up there where he actually had some parts of the crash. Do you know anything about that? (1:26:21)

Yes, Art's parts. He gave it to Linda Moulton Howe. They've checked it out. To the best of my knowledge, nobody was ever able to figure out what they really were. And I think Linda still might have the parts somewhere. Did you ever hear about that, Ben? Vaguely, vaguely. I run into Linda every so often at the conferences, but that subject's never come up. (1:26:44)

It was a strange little situation, to be sure. Ben, where can people get a hold of you? Through your website? Yeah, so mostly on social media. So my website is benhansen.com if you want to actually get a hold of me. Hopefully we're going to be launching a website soon where you'll be able to go in and tell us your sightings. We're always developing new TV shows, and for TV or not, I want to hear your information and reach out to you. (1:27:16)

And anytime you've got a new program, Ben, just get back to us and we'll pop you on, okay? We'd love it. Yeah, thank you so much. It's been great. And to everyone else out there, thank you for spreading the word and getting your neighbors and everyone interested, because the ball is moving, the momentum is going, and it's exciting times. What do you think happened at Roswell? (1:27:37)

I would give it a 95% chance that it was otherworldly. I think it's overwhelming. The government, four different iterations at least, explanations to this being something else. So by definition, it is a conspiracy. I'm just not sure who was piloting them, but you have enough information there. I think it makes a great case that it was not human. I've got the headline of the Roswell newspaper that says, Army Air Force Captures Downed Flying Saucer. Right, and then within hours, it's redacted. (1:28:13)

Pulled back really fast. I wonder how they did that, right? It'll go down as one of the greatest mysteries of the millennia, and hopefully it will all make sense one day. Ben, thanks again, and we'll talk to you soon. All right, thanks, George. Up next, Marilyn Hughes joins us. We're going to talk about some out-of-body experiences. She's got some amazing things going. She's got a new film out, too, on astral projection, out-of-body experiences. (1:28:41)

So we'll be back with much more on Coast to Coast AM, and then in our last hour of the show, we'll take your calls with her on Coast to Coast AM. Never miss a detail on a show or a guest. Sign up for the Coast Zone email newsletter, available for free at coasttocoastam.com. This is Coast to Coast AM, with George Norrie. Would you love to have an out-of-body experience? (1:30:49)

Have you had one? In a moment, Marilyn Hughes joins us. We'll talk about her latest work, a film, How Do You Have an Out-of-Body Experience? And we'll also talk about her work in astral projection, next on Coast to Coast AM. Let's talk about the Birch Gold Group. They have been around for some time now, and they're offering a great product, the use of physical gold and silver. (1:31:11)

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She has had a long-standing career in broadcasting as a news anchor, reporter, and producer. She founded the Out-of-Body Travel Foundation back in 2003 and has experienced research written and taught about out-of-body travel since 1987. Marilyn has also been the object of a scientific study on out-of-body experiences and a subject in several other research studies. Her latest film, of course, is called How to Have an Out-of-Body Experience. Welcome to the program, Marilyn. Welcome back. (1:33:06)

Thank you, George. It's great to be with you. How did a television anchorperson get involved in out-of-body experiences? Well, you know, if you're going to report on events in the world, you might as well report on events on the other side, right? So, you know, I started having the out-of-body experiences and I kind of approached it like a reporter. Started writing it all down and looking at it as, I've got to report on this, right? (1:33:34)

And so then the journals then became the beginnings of what became my books, you know? So that's how it all began. And tell us about your first out-of-body experience and did you know what was happening to you? Well, you know, I guess I would say I had, you know, I kind of had two first out-of-body experiences because I had one when I was very young, when I was nine years old, which kind of was a precursor. (1:34:01)

And then I had what I would consider my first out-of-body experience in my adulthood when I was about 22. So the one that I had at the age of nine was different than the one that occurred later in that it was a beautiful, mind-blowing experience in the sense that, you know, I entered into this vibrational state that we all hear about. And then it was the clouds, these billowing clouds all before me. (1:34:31)

And then the clouds began to part to reveal this beautiful marble staircase that went from right in front of me towards the heavens. (1:34:41)

And on each side of the staircase were standing these beautiful lighted angels who heralded up at the top of the steps two beings who were sitting on thrones who at the time I perceived as God the Father and God the Son. And of course I was nine years old, and I believe it was presented to me in a way that I could understand at the time. (1:35:07)

And then I slowly walked up those steps, and it was so intense, because every step carried with it such a profound vibration. There was an increasing vibration with each movement higher and towards that pinnacle at the top. But as I was approaching, I was then given an in-depth vision of my future. And I was shown things about how I would have a destiny that I had to fulfill down the road. (1:35:52)

And I was shown the cross, and the cross was on fire. And I had to bring some type of clarity and wisdom to the world. And of course I had no idea what that would be, but that I was told that this type of experience would return to me at a later time, and that I would understand what I was to do. And then, you know, I was just completely and utterly... my world was completely rocked by that experience at the time. (1:36:27)

But eventually, of course, I just kind of go on with my life. And then at the age of 22, I had what I would consider my second first experience, where I was just sleeping. And suddenly I went into the deep, intense, vibrational state, and I started lifting up my arm. And what happened was my lighted arm, my spiritual arm, came out of my arm. (1:36:56)

And so there were the two arms. There was the spiritual lighted arm coming out, and my physical arm was below. And I realized something was very different than before. There was these profound noises, this extreme roaring sound, which, you know, I now understand as the sounds of the astral plane, because it's a higher vibration than what we have here in the physical realm. (1:37:25)

And what happened was I continued kind of experimenting, and eventually I rolled over, came out of my body, and realized that something was happening. And the first time, I was very scared, because I was worried that, oh, well, did something happen in my sleep? Had I died, you know? And then what happened was, because I was kind of freaked out by it... Sure. ...in between, you know, the next experience, which happened maybe two weeks later, I had, you know, asked in prayer for protection, that if it were to happen again, that it would be done in a way where I would not feel afraid. (1:38:12)

And then the next time that it happened, it was so beautiful, because on both sides of my body, I had three beautiful celestial angels, and they were, you know, golden angels of light. (1:38:29)

They were completely made of light on each side. And they pulled me out very gently, and it was a completely peaceful experience. And I had a completely different perspective just the second time. And, of course, this is now thousands of times later, you know, 34, 35 years later. And so, yes, those are just a little rundown of the first few times, you know. (1:39:00)

Now, there have been some English folks from years gone past that had a tremendous influence on astral projection. There was a book called Journeys Out of the Body. There was another one called The Projection of the Astral Bodies. But they were Robert Crookall, Sylvan Muldoon, Hayward Carrington, and then an American, Robert Monroe. And have you dealt with any of their works at all? (1:39:27)

Oh, definitely. I'm very familiar with Bob Monroe's works and Sylvan Muldoon's. The other two, I don't know that I've read those, but I have read a lot of the books by most of the out-of-body travel writers and a lot of the near-death experience writers. And also a lot of the mystical theology from, you know, the ancient sacred texts, where we actually, you know, find that there is this great historical record from all around the world of people having out-of-body experiences throughout time. (1:40:07)

Not necessarily calling it that, but it's the same experience. What have you concluded that an out-of-body experience is? Well, what I have concluded is that, I mean, it's several things, right? You know, an out-of-body experience is, first and foremost, you're separating the spirit from the body. And there's a big purpose behind it. And so, you know, I often just refer to out-of-body experiences as the big tool. (1:40:45)

You know, because a lot of people look at out-of-body experiences as, like, this big end-all. It's not the end-all. It's the tool to the end-all. And what the end-all would be, then, is that by being able to separate the spirit from the physical body, we find that not only do we have the ability to, you know, observe our physical body there, or float around the ceiling, or even travel the astral plane, but what you'll find when you start reading my books is that you start traveling into infinite numbers of mystical spheres and realms. (1:41:27)

And it is an infinite universe of potential learning and transformation. What happens when you start having out-of-body experiences is that you accelerate your spiritual progression to such an infinitude that it's hard to even put into words. But the reason why is because the experience of traveling in your spiritual body allows you to access what I call the energetic truth, which lies behind every human interaction and which lies behind every human soul. (1:42:07)

And by being able to do this, we're able to cut through all of the distractions and all of the things that we put up that guard us from the truth, that keep us from just getting down to the bottom line of, why are we here, why did we choose to incarnate this time, and what are we going to need to do about that if we want to progress from this life into the next and utilize this lifetime to its greatest and furthest potential, like, you know, the great prophets, saints, mystics, sages, and ascetics from around the world who eventually ascended this realm and were done here. (1:42:51)

You know, rather than returning and doing a lot of the same things over and over again, the karmic circling, the reincarnational cycle where we end up doing a lot of the same habitual patterns and behaviors over and over again because we don't see them, the out-of-body experience completely shatters those illusions and makes acceleration possible. (1:43:19)

It's profound. You know, we start the journey in a book that I wrote called, The Mysteries of the Redemption, a treatise on out-of-body travel and mysticism, which is now in development with Ubiquity Entertainment with Lisa Menzel and Kevin Collum, and also Dean Lyon, assistant producer of The Lord of the Rings and many other great feature films. We're going to bring that into a feature film series, that book along with its sequels, and bring the other side, you know, rip the veil asunder and bring a map to everyone who wants to find out what lies beyond this world and into the next. (1:44:15)

Because by doing this, by opening that door, we are opening the potential that lies within every single one of us because this is not something that is meant for the few. It's meant for all of us. Is the astral body your soul, or are we talking about two different things? Well, the astral body itself is not your entire soul. What you'll find when you're having out-of-body experiences is that you're going to travel in different aspects of your soul, and then you're going to actually be taken through these transformations and initiations through the mysteries, rites of passage, and things where you will actually begin to accumulate into the higher and finer frequencies of your soul. (1:45:10)

So as you're moving through these purifications, you're going to actually find your soul actually grasping, reaching, and attaining these other energetic elements that bring you closer to what might be termed as your higher self, your higher soul. But there's many different energetic levels between what might be your astral body and then where you're going to get to some of these higher attainments. And then even beyond that, once you reach that higher self, there are attainments beyond that as well. (1:45:55)

And these are all like... you can look at it almost like a staircase. It's just individual levels of frequency that change, and you're adding a little bit more light and a little bit more wisdom, a little bit more frequency to that spirit, that soul. So the very first body that you will travel in, the astral body, will be the beginner spirit. And then you're going to go through a lot of transformations, a lot of purifications, and a lot of education. (1:46:38)

And all of that will lead through these things that bring you into these other elements of your soul. There's a lot of things that you do. So, for instance, you know, you start out with some basic things. You learn how to move around in the spiritual body. You learn how to see, hear, smell, taste, move through physical objects, all that basic stuff. But then you start moving through the corridors, and there's many different types of corridors. (1:47:07)

There's corridors that take you through time, corridors that take you into the initiation realms, corridors that take you into higher celestial spheres. And believe it or not, there are also corridors that take you into purgatorial and hellish realms. (1:47:23)

There are corridors for all sorts of things. You go into these other spheres where you learn about your past lives. You go into spheres where you learn about your creative gifts or your intellectual gifts. And you learn to nurture them and to bring them to a higher level. You go through a lot of different levels of teaching where you're going to meet with many different spiritual teachers. (1:47:55)

A lot of people think you have, like, one spiritual teacher, one guide. Right. We have many. We do. And through the astral projection, are we reaching certain levels of, I would call, the heavenly state? You absolutely do, eventually. When you're in the astral plane, when you're talking about simply astral projection, which is in the astral plane. The astral plane borders the third dimension, which is the fourth realm. (1:48:31)

You are in a mortal realm, which is not a heavenly realm. It's more of a purgatorial type realm. So when you're projecting, if you're astral projecting in the astral plane, that's not a heavenly realm. You're in a purgatorial zone. But you absolutely do eventually move towards the heavenly spheres. One of the very beautiful things in the travels that I've had is that we find that it's in the galactic heavens. (1:49:06)

In space, we find where heaven is. And we find it traveling through black holes, going through different interdimensional portals. There are matrices that you go through to get to the heavenly spheres. And then there are other tunnels that lead into what would be the innermost recesses of heaven. And what is really kind of cool about the innermost recesses of heaven is that there is not just human souls there. (1:49:40)

There are souls from other worlds. In other words, extraterrestrials. And it's so natural there that nobody notices it, because it's just the way it is. And so what you'll find is that you do move towards those higher spheres. And there's all sorts of wonderful, beautiful, celestial realms to travel. You know, cities of light, the realms where the masters reside, the pure lands. The initiation realms are something that is just, in and of themselves, a whole other subject to get into. (1:50:17)

You know, there's so much on the other side. People are often confounded by just how much there is. A lot of what the Mysteries of the Redemption does for people is to present them with a map of the other side. It gives them a way to approach and an understanding of what to expect when they begin to have these experiences. And it makes it less scary, less overwhelming. (1:50:55)

They realize that, yes, it's beautiful and vast, and I don't need to be afraid or intimidated by it. There is so much to be attained by being open to being instructed in this way. It's amazing work, Marilyn. It really is. Can you out-of-body at will? I don't do it at will. And you know, it's interesting, because a lot of people think that's the goal. (1:51:26)

But one of the things I learned very early on, you can train yourself where you will have it very regularly. (1:51:35)

Which, you know, I do have it very regularly. All right, hold on for a second. We'll talk more about this when we come right back on Coast to Coast AM. Sign up now for CoastZone, our free email newsletter. Get it today at coasttocoastam.com. ♪♪♪ The summer wind came blowing in from across the sea. It lingered there to touch your hair and walk with me. (1:53:13)

All summer long we sang a song and then we strolled that golden sand. Two sweethearts in the summer wind. Like painted kites those days and nights they went flying by. The world was new beneath the blue umbrella sky. Then softer than a Piper man one day it called to you. I lost you. I lost you to the summer wind. Live from the Gateway to the West, this is Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie. We're going to take your calls next hour with Marilyn Hughes as we talk about out-of-body experiences. (1:54:30)

We'll also tell you how you can watch her film, How to Have an Out-of-Body Experience. And definitely if you've had one, check in with us. See how easy it is or how difficult it might be. ParanormalDate.com continues to cruise along. 802 people shy now of 116,000 signed up members. Just sign up at ParanormalDate.com. And if you're over 60, what do we have, Tom? (1:54:53)

Well, if you're looking for that special someone who's 60 plus, we can take care of you as well. We've created ParanormalDate.com slash seniors for those bit more mature people. So check it out. It's ParanormalDate.com slash seniors. At ParanormalDate.com, you meet the most fantastic people. Hi, I'm Tom. Hi, I'm Jennifer. What brings you here? Yeah, I'm here to meet someone who understands me. How so? (1:55:17)

Well, I'm into UFOs, ghosts, aliens, Bigfoot, conspiracy theories, the paranormal, that kind of stuff. But can't seem to find anyone who gets it. Oh, well, um, nice to meet you, Tom. I gotta go. Uh, okay. Guess that's not your cup of tea. You sure? Very. Good luck with that. I can't meet anyone when I'm out, and I really can't find a website for my unique interests. What is one to do? (1:55:42)

Have you thought about ParanormalDate.com? Para what dot what? Who are you? I'm a paranormal matchmaker, and it's ParanormalDate.com. It's a website for people looking for people like them. Stuff you like, remember? Interesting. I'll give it a try. Well, let's try this again. Hi, I'm Tom. Hey, I'm Deb. Your profile on ParanormalDate.com looked very interesting. So, you really saw a UFO? Well, yeah. It was so intense, but not as intense as meeting you. (1:56:15)

You're an alien chasing flirt, but I kinda like it. Wow, this ParanormalDate.com thing really works. Maybe ParanormalDate.com is for you. People with an interest in things they hear on George's show find their match daily. So, if you're looking for that special someone with an interest in UFOs, ghosts, aliens, Bigfoot, conspiracy theories, and, of course, the paranormal, come to the dating site inspired by George Norrie. It's always free to search, and if you decide to upgrade to our amazing new features, use promo code GEORGE for a great discount. (1:56:50)

ParanormalDate.com. You are not alone. (1:56:52)

And we're back with Marilyn Hughes. George Norrie back with you. Marilyn, I've always been told that when you go to sleep, your astral body is floating above your physical body in your dream state. Is that correct? A lot of the times that's true. It's not always every single time, but yes. There's a natural occurring thing that we have where we're being instructed while we sleep. (1:57:40)

And the spiritual world is interacting with our astral body and with our souls on subconscious levels. So, ironically, the out-of-body travel state, as we're trying to learn it, we're actually trying to bring something that's occurring already up from the subconscious level to a conscious level. And so it's a little different, I think, than a lot of people think. Because sometimes they're like, well, I don't know. I'm scared. It's something. Should I even try it? (1:58:12)

It's like, well, you're already doing it. You're just not aware of it. So what you're doing is you're making it conscious. And so it's not as big of a change as people often think. What is the significance of being in the astral state? Well, being in the astral state puts you in the spiritual body, which puts you in a position of being able to be instructed. (1:58:39)

And we go back to this energetic situation, this energetic truth that I spoke of earlier, where we are now able to be taught by the spiritual teachers that are brought to us. We are brought different spiritual teachers as we go through different types and levels of attainment. And as we move through them, a different spiritual teacher will come in to take over and take us to the next level. (1:59:11)

When we go into that spiritual body, we become capable of receiving the vibrational thrust. Why is that important? Because one of the first things you learn in out-of-body travel is that information is not wisdom. Vibration is wisdom. And the way that we actually accelerate and go to higher levels of wisdom is through what I call vibrational raisings. We are actually put through these accelerations of this vibrational state. (1:59:48)

It's like they rev your engine. It's really intense, very powerful, and you're being revved up. And as they do this, you become capable not only of traveling to higher and higher spheres, but you become capable of understanding other kinds of knowledge that are now going to be downloaded and brought into your spiritual body. One of the things I was also shown early on was that when we try to travel to a realm that is higher than our level of vibration, it feels like we're being crushed. (2:00:29)

And why is that important? It's important because it tells us that this raising of our vibration is a vital aspect of us becoming more and more free to be able to travel to these higher and higher worlds in the world beyond the veil. And so everything that we start to learn in that astral body, which then becomes a spiritual body and other forms and higher bodies, is that it is that vibration which is the key to all the knowledge that we will attain. (2:01:10)

Because when you go into the vibrational state, you also attach to that unconditional love of God. You attach to that unconditional mystery of God. You know, when you go into these states, you have this momentary awareness of what everything means. (2:01:32)

It all makes sense. All the mysteries of life are available to you in those moments when you are completely within that spiritual body. And you take parts of that back with you when you go back to the physical. But once you go back to the physical body, you're detaching from those things. But while you are in that state, you are attaching to that oneness of all life, universal being, the field of all creation. (2:02:04)

And that knowledge is now available to you, and that is how your soul is accelerated into this spiritual training system that is so far accelerated beyond any other method. And this is because you're going directly into energy. You're bypassing all of our physical limitations, all of our distractions, all of our own personal illusions or delusions. We go right to the source. And that source and summit now instructs us. And that makes all the difference. (2:02:47)

Since you've been doing this, has there been anything quite profound that you've come across? Oh my goodness, there have been so many things that are profound. It would be so hard to encapsulate. I've written 104 books about this. But yes, I mean, I have traveled to the throne room of God and experienced and been allowed to watch the movings and workings of the universe as it is literally altering and bending in the lives of millions of souls in one millisecond. (2:03:28)

All at the same time, completely cognizant of every single one. I have been to my own past lives and discovered the mysteries of my own soul and what it was that I have been missing all of these eons and needed to overcome so that I might try to ascend in this lifetime. I have learned the mysteries of heaven, hell, and purgatory and traveled to an infinite number of each of those realms and learned how to assist souls who are in need in the purgatorial realms and in the hellish realms. (2:04:10)

I've learned about lost souls and ghosts and been instructed and taught and then spent many, many years assisting lost souls and ghosts in crossing over to the other side. I've learned about the afterlife journey of many different souls and what happens to us as we go through that purification process after we depart this earth. Under a myriad of circumstances, I've been taken into the initiations into the mysteries and the rites of passage and those go into the mysteries of time and space and timelessness. (2:04:54)

I've been taken to the Galactic Council and learned a lot about extraterrestrial things as well as things about the celestial hierarchies gone to the 23rd dimension where the golden angels reside. I've seen the mysteries of the Holy Mass as it is played out in the heavenly spheres and shown to me in the 54 steps of vibrational matter. And what's actually happening there. I've been shown the mysteries of the ancient sacred texts and the prophets, saints, mystics, sages, and ascetics. (2:05:35)

And the amazing keys that they've left behind for all of us to understand the nature of God and to transform our own path and have the potential to graduate from this realm of earth when we pass from this life by being open to hearing the words that they left behind when they were doing the very self-same thing. (2:06:01)

There's so much. There's so much. It is so infinite. And I think what is probably the hardest thing for people to comprehend is out-of-body travel is not simply separating from your body and floating around a room. It is literally traveling the universe. It is meeting with the masters in the pure lands and watching as they talk about their different missions in the redemption of worlds like our own. (2:06:39)

And what are they going to do next? And what are their plans? It's so much. It's the Assisi Marauders who reside in a different dimensional existence on the planet Venus, but who energize creation and the creative spirit on earth and on other worlds like our own. It's... gosh... it's, you know, traveling through the stars and meeting the mighty archangels in the heavens and seeing where they reside and understanding the majesty of their work. (2:07:23)

Watching St. Michael as he is able to defeat a demon with a single thought, not having to exercise anything but a thought to stop an intrusion upon the earth realm that is beyond the bounds of what universal law will allow. And sitting on his back, flying with him and watching the majesty of his actions, going to many, many schools that are offered in the spiritual world that many of us go to, most of us may not necessarily remember, but everyone goes to these schools where we learn about things like oneness, universal love, the love of God, the unconditional love of God, and these mysteries that we can only encompass in that spiritual body. (2:08:24)

The mysteries of God that just are opened up to us in ways that really can't be put into words. It's just something you experience that is so beyond words. There is so much. There is this beautiful tapestry within our universe where there is this continual unfolding and working together to assist one another in our evolution. One of the teachers that I had in my journeyings was Chief Joseph, and he taught me about alteration. (2:09:05)

And one of the beautiful things that I learned in the alteration pathway was about how we work in the spiritual spheres to alter things for souls who may be going astray, and stopping bad things from happening to give people another chance so that they don't die before their time, and they might have a second chance to learn that lesson. So that someone who might be really struggling with a horrible loss might receive additional assistance from the celestial hierarchy, from the angels above, and from specific spiritual teachers who are sent to give aid to assist souls who are tormented by their own memories of something that has happened to them, in a past existence, or even in just the astral plane itself, and they're trapped, they're stuck, and yet we are trained as souls to go in and help them. (2:10:20)

We help one another because creation continues to create, and we are all called to go in and serve creation as creation serves us. (2:10:32)

So we find that as these higher beings come from these higher realms and teach us, that we are then taught to do the same for other souls and for our sisters and brothers in the spirit world, but also we find that we are able to make alterations in the spiritual world that affect outcomes on the ground, in the physical world. It's an amazing thing to see what is possible and to see the power of prayer as it rises like lightning from the earth to the heavenly spheres and is received by the angels and acted on with absolute immediacy. (2:11:22)

The intensity of the mercy of God in that the moment a soul calls out for help from any realm, whether it be the highest heaven or the lowest hell, you know, going back and recounting what David said in the Psalms, but yet it is so true, and I've seen it, that literally the moment a soul calls for help, aid is sent, and it arrives in a split second. (2:11:54)

What's the old saying, ask and it shall be given? Oh, it is so true. It is so true. And you know, it is also true, as you say, ask and it shall be given, that we ask to have these things opened up to us, to have them revealed to us. And you know, ironically, even like with this film that we just released, my producer Brian Mallum, with How to Have an Out-of-Body Experience, and you can see it by going to our website at outofbodytravel.org, and then going to the YouTube channel. (2:12:28)

And you'll see How to Have an Out-of-Body Experience, along with a lot of other films that we have put out. But this will take you through, step by step, how you can prepare, get ready, and go through the processes that will help you get ready to have these kinds of experiences, and be ready for anything that will come. And it is, you know, it literally takes you by the hand. (2:12:57)

Marilyn, we're going to take a quick break at the top of the hour. We're going to come back and take phone calls with you. I also want to talk about your new release called The Tao of Mysticism, and have you explain to us what that could be. Our special guest is Marilyn Hughes. Her website linked up at coasttocoastam.com. One of her films, How to Have an Out-of-Body Experience, but she's got a latest one. (2:13:19)

She's constantly working on films and documentaries, so we'll be back in a moment with her on Coast to Coast AM. And her books, of course, are all on her website at coasttocoastam.com. So don't touch your dial. We will be right back on Coast to Coast AM. To access the audio archives of Coast to Coast AM, log on to coasttocoastam.com. You know in the end, and when you're in danger... Oh, it's me. (2:14:36)

It's been about us for a long, long time. (2:14:43)

Maybe I think too much, but something's wrong. There's something here that doesn't last too long. Maybe I shouldn't think of you as mine. Seeing you, or seeing anything as much as I do you, I take for granted that you're always there. I take for granted that you just don't care. Sometimes I can't help seeing all the ways in. To talk to George Norrie, call the wildcard line at 818-501-4109. The first time caller line is 818-501-4721. To talk toll free from east of the Rockies, call 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies toll free, call 800-618-8255. To reach George via Skype, use Skype name George97313. Send George a text message anytime at 818-298-6521. This is Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie. Well, we're talking about out-of-body experiences with Marilyn Hughes. We'll come back and chat more and take your calls on Coast to Coast AM. Well, Nielsen says more than 30 million Americans are now tuning into Newsmax TV. That's an amazing accomplishment and one of the biggest media stories out there today. (2:16:36)

Newsmax is available on all the major cable systems. If you cut the cord to cable and don't get cable, you can still get Newsmax. You can find it on your smart TVs like Samsung, LG and more. Or go to your smart TV channel guide and download the free Newsmax app. Newsmax also streams free on Roku, Zumo, Pluto, Amazon Fire, TiVo. Seven million people have the Newsmax app on their smartphones as well. (2:17:01)

And it takes just seconds to download the phone app. No payroll, no subscription fee. Watch Newsmax for breaking news anytime, anywhere. Forbes describes Newsmax as a news powerhouse. And find out why tens of millions of Americans are starting to watch Newsmax TV. And also going to Newsmax.com for breaking news. Newsmax is a source you can trust. It's real news for real people. And welcome back. Marilyn Hughes with us. George Norrie back with you. (2:17:49)

Marilyn, tell us about the Tao of Mysticism. The Tao of Mysticism is actually a follow-up to how to have an out-of-body experience. It's a film that we put together to help people to become a deeper mystic. So we go into, you know, the mystical theology. The information that is available to us from, you know, literally hundreds and thousands of years of mysticism. And put it together in a usable format for those who want to really go deep. (2:18:27)

And since you've been doing this, and you've been doing this for a number of years now, have you found that people are becoming more acclimated to this? Oh, yes. You know, it's interesting because what I find is that people are very easily brought into the out-of-body experience. You know, I was told when I was writing The Mysteries of the Redemption that people would, just by reading the book, spontaneously start having the experiences. (2:18:59)

And I've found that over the years that does happen a lot. And so many, many of my readers just naturally start amending to the experience. (2:19:10)

And we do have, you know, other books and resources available. And they're all available for free at the website at outofbodytravel.org. But people do easily acclimate to it. It's just a very simple adjustment in your perspective and the realization of the fact that these worlds exist, that the veil is penetrable, and that you can access it. And, you know, I think what some of my books provide is like a map, a window, a way to feel more comfortable that you know where you're going and what to expect. (2:19:48)

And so, yes, I really see a lot of people having a lot of experiences and going pretty deep into not just the out-of-body experiences, but deeper and deeper into the mystical life and this transformative process, this purification journey where they are really experiencing spiritual transformation. You know, not just random experiences here and there, but they're really on a journey. And it's a beautiful thing to see. (2:20:20)

In the writings of Sylvan Muldoon, Hayward Carrington was the astral projector. But Sylvan Muldoon was the actual writer. He writes about in certain levels or planes of the astral plane that you can get into an area where there's some entities that you don't want to hang around with. Have you found that to be the case? Well, that's absolutely true. And in fact, that's pretty strongly the case across the board in the astral plane because the astral plane is a purgatorial realm. (2:20:54)

It's not a great place to hang out. The astral plane is basically like a mirror realm of the third dimension. And so it's kind of a lower kind of realm. In the astral plane, you're going to deal with the shadow parts and the people who have just crossed over and people who are staying in a very unpurified state who are not progressing into anything further. (2:21:23)

So they're going to be mischievous, and sometimes doing dark and mischievous things. And you have lost souls there. You have wandering spirits. You also have souls with some dark intentions. So absolutely. You also run into parasitic-type entities that you want to be careful of. Like leeches, right? Yes, definitely. Leech-type beings. You'll have beings with like octopuses, like tendril-type beings. And also other types of parasitic. (2:21:59)

Things that you'd kind of consider them vampiric. Where they kind of suck the life, the energy out of you. And so there is a lot that you want to learn about. I write a lot about this in my books and give a lot of direction on discernment and how to navigate and understand, you know, good versus evil and how all of this operates in the spiritual world as well as in the physical world. (2:22:28)

And it's really vital for us to understand this. Let's go to some calls for you, Marilyn, as they're lining up. Joe in the Bronx. Hey, Joseph, go ahead. Hi, George. How are you? This is all good. Thank you. Good, good. Marilyn, it's very interesting, the subject matter you speak of. (2:22:46)

I'd like to ask, earlier you mentioned that you were in the throne room of God. I'd like to ask if you've seen a physical image of God or is He a vibrational entity? And you also mentioned that you wrote on the back of Michael the Archangel. I'd like to ask you, what does Michael the Archangel actually look like? Oh, wow. (2:23:18)

Yeah, great questions. Thank you, Joe. You know, the first question in the throne room, when I experienced the throne room, God was a presence that permeated all life, all existence. And I got to experience His movings and meanderings through all creation. It was very, very fascinating and, I mean, it was just a mind-blowing experience. And that particular experience, that is how it manifested. (2:23:46)

In the experience I had as a child, He manifested in a different way. And I think that that was probably because I was a child and it was necessary. I think in most of the experiences I've had, God has manifested in a similar way. A field of being, a universal creator, an energy that permeates all of creation. And you feel it, you know it, and it overcomes you as this unconditional love. (2:24:15)

The oneness of all life permeates and contains you as well. And the mysteries of all life enter into you as well. There is a thread that goes through all existence that you experience in the out-of-body travel state that is of God, that is just inherent. So I hope that's helpful on that question. St. Michael is huge. St. Michael is huge. He's like 20 feet or something like that. (2:24:51)

I would say bigger. When I rode on his back, I was literally on his shoulder, and I'm like a little 2 or 3 inch creature at that point. I mean, he was huge. I'd say 100 feet. With or without wings? You know, when I saw him, he did have wings. When I was with him on his back, he was white, and he had a purple hue. (2:25:23)

And I don't know if that was his actual color, or if it was the color that was radiating from him because of the galactic heavens. Because we were flying through the galactic heavens. We were in space. But there was this beautiful purplish hue, and his wings were white, and his hair had this purplish hue. His eyes were purple, and his face was white. (2:25:52)

And I was on his shoulder, and I was just like a tiny little 2 or 3 inch thing. He was so big. You were like a bug. I was like a bug. I really was like a bug. I think what I was just so amazed by... I've seen him many times, but I'm just referring to this one time. But in this particular experience, it was just amazing because he was able to subdue anything demonic or dark or whatever with a thought. (2:26:26)

He was literally that powerful, and it was really awesome to see. (2:26:31)

But I've seen him many different times, and I've seen him in the presence of the other archangels as well. And I've seen him in his home planet. And there are these beautiful... what do you call them? I would say like monuments that surround his home on this planet. You have to go through these rites of passage in order to enter. And he has this secluded little round house where he stays. (2:27:05)

And I'm sure it's not the only place he stays, but it's one of the places I was allowed to see. And I was allowed to watch this other time when he was being summoned by another army of... There was something happening where there was a spiritual warfare, and they needed St. Michael to come and call the army of the archangels and the principalities and powers. (2:27:35)

And I got to watch this as he came out and he called in the other archangels. And all these angels just started gathering, all these golden light beings just coming from all over the heavens to come and battle this force that was overtaking a part of the earth. And it was just really awe-inspiring just to watch this battle between the principalities and powers and watch how it played out. (2:28:11)

You know how sometimes right before you go to bed you get that jolt, that feeling? Is that the astral body leaving your body and you somehow realize it and it pulls it back down? That can happen. And yes, sometimes it's actually when somebody is coming back in and they've been out. And it can also be when you're actually just about to get out and then you become conscious. (2:28:39)

You know, one of the biggest obstacles that people run into, it's easily overcomable though. So don't worry about it because you can overcome this and you can watch the film, How to Have an Out-of-Body Experience, and you can learn how to do this. People talk to me about this all the time, where you get out of your body and then you get startled because you're like, Oh my gosh, I'm out of my body. And that excitement can actually thrust you right back into your body. (2:29:08)

So what you learn to do over time is to subdue and control that reaction so that you can move through the experience without jolting yourself back into the body. And that is something that can be done and a lot of people do it with a few times. They go through it a few times and they're able to move through it. It's a real common part of that process. (2:29:38)

And yes, with that particular experience, people are often either coming back in or trying to go back out. But there's that surprise element which always thrusts us back into the body. Let's go to Mayette in New York. Hey, Mayette, thanks for calling. Yes, good morning. Lordy, Miss Claudie. Great show, George. And thank you, Marilyn, for your work. (2:30:03)

I have a two-parter and I'll listen over the air, please. First of all, there's a part of me that says, beam me up. I mean, when I look at the present reality at 1984 and Brave New World and trying to mandate outside injection of chemicals, I want to know three principles, even before streaming and reading, that we should be anchored in, especially around that murky and negative astral realm. (2:30:42)

And the second part is that we get to the point where we meet these ascended beings, masters. And I noticed that when Joe referred to the God principle, he referred to it as male. But I want you to expand on that in terms of the goddesses and those masters. And are they telling us any information for our realm and future, what we could be looking at in the future in this crazy land? (2:31:16)

And I'll listen over the air. Thank you so much, George. Thank you. Thank you. There is, you know, first of all, we'll start with your first part there, which is, you know, I'd like to just point out, because everybody feels that way. Just a reminder to all of us that we are here at this time because we chose to be here at this time. (2:31:40)

We're incarnate during these unusual times because we kind of elected to do this. So even though we all feel that way, we all want to beam up and get out of here and say, you know, this isn't, you know, too much. We want to remind ourselves that we selected this, and that means we have a part to play. So when you're tempted to lose hope or be, you know, like, I want to just give up. (2:32:08)

Remind yourself you wanted to do this for a reason and focus on trying to discover what role that is that you're going to play during these times. And as to, you know, first of all, yes, the feminine principle of God is very much the creation force. You know, a lot of people don't understand that the Holy Spirit is the divine feminine that moves through and brings in creation. (2:32:40)

You know, you have father, mother, and child, and this is how creation comes through the divine feminine is the influx of the spirit birth. And that's what the feminine brings to all life. But in terms of what we're hearing, in terms of what I've been specifically told, I've been told that the years 2026 to 2030 are going to be of extreme importance in terms of how things are going to play out in this realm. (2:33:16)

And so what I've been told is those years will determine what will happen after. And we will have either, you know, serious apocalyptic type events. Like we have now. Yes, and natural disasters, but it'll be worse. You know, it can get worse. Or we can possibly try to turn this around. But there is a lot of darkness churning here. (2:33:49)

So this is an unusual time. You know, it's interesting, though, that we also have other prophecies out there that tell us the years 2027 to 2032 were indicated in the prophecies of the Pope. And in, you know, prophecy that was given to Pope John XXIII was the year 2032. And so there are quite a few prophetic types of messages, not just those, but many others that are showing us those particular years. (2:34:24)

And so, you know, we can look at that decade from 2025 to 2035 as being very pivotal in what we will basically see as to where we're headed. In terms of what I've been shown, it has been that we have to preserve the light. We are not really in a position here where we are, you know, having some great victory or something like that. (2:34:53)

But we have to preserve our light because there is going to be a great deal of confusion and darkness that's going to reign. And what we're doing is we are holding it tight for that time when we can bring it forth again and reestablish it upon that earth. So don't lose sight of how important it is to simply preserve your light while these things are happening. (2:35:23)

A lot of people can forget how important that is. We forget that a remnant of light can be the difference between a future with or without goodness and love in the world. Can you get energized by astral projection? Oh, yes, you do. You get energized. You go through these vibrational raisings. You receive these energetic influxes. You're taken to these other realms where things are downloaded into you, frequencies and energies and information. (2:36:00)

Creative things are given to you. You're given instruction. You know, everything I've ever done with the Out-of-Body Travel Foundation and every book I've ever written, it's all given to me in the Out-of-Body Travel State. Every single title, every single thing I was told to do to establish everything. The music that I've been given was all given to me. That's amazing. (2:36:30)

Marilyn, hold on. We're at a break. We're going to come back and take final calls in a moment on Coast to Coast AM. Get daily show updates right to your inbox for free with the Coast Zone newsletter. Sign up today at coasttocoastam.com. Easy to understand. Good night, my pleasant dreams and sleep tight, my love. May tomorrow be sunny and bright. And bring you closer to me. (2:38:01)

Before you go, there's just one thing I'd like to know. If your love is still warm for me. Or has it gone cold? If you should awake in the still of the night. Please have no fear. For I'll be there. Darling, you know I care. Please give your love to me, dear, only. Good night, my love. Pleasant dreams and a sleep, sleep tight, my love. (2:39:12)

To talk to George Norrie, call the wildcard line at 818-501-4109. The first time caller line is 818-501-4721. To talk toll free from east of the Rockies, call 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies toll free, call 800-618-8255. To reach George via Skype, use Skype name George97313. Send George a text message anytime at 818-298-6521. This is Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie. On our next Coast to Coast program, we are going to be talking about Armageddon. Will it happen? (2:39:58)

And then later on, we'll be talking with a psychic about the world's events. (2:40:02)

So you'll be part of the program, of course. Beyond Belief, that's our television show. Go to it at beyondbelief.com. Want to watch a couple free episodes? What do we have, Tommy? Well, I'll tell you, there's not much better than an ad-free episode of Beyond Belief, except three free episodes of Beyond Belief. And that's what we have up there right now. So go to beyondbelief.com, check out that free seven-day trial. (2:40:23)

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Marilyn, where can people see your films and documentaries? You can go to our YouTube channel. Just head to outofbodytravel.org and click on our YouTube channel and you can check them out there. You can also see our books at the website. All our books, music, art, everything is available there for free. All right. Let's go back to the phones. Let's go to Gary in Cleveland, Ohio. First time caller. (2:43:09)

Hi, Gary. Oh, good evening, George. And what an honor it is to talk to such a wise teacher, Marilyn. That's what you are, without a doubt. Oh, thank you, Gary. Thank you. Interestingly enough, I've had two out-of-the-body experiences. One was when I found myself on some etherical plane, and it appeared to be sort of a coliseum or auditorium or something like that. (2:43:43)

There were a bunch of individuals there. They were sort of silhouettes, and they had white robes around them. And my purpose there was to ask them if, in fact, they accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. And once I did that, it was like those who seemingly did began to ascend to higher planes. Now, I had no religious training or background. I was not religious at all. (2:44:18)

But I knew that I believed in God and accepted God, but I seemed like I was charged to do that that night. And then what I found out is that some higher powers wanted to charge me with taking and training dogs to find missing people. That's been one of the things I've done during my lifetime. And when I was going through training that I never even realized I was going through, I was introduced to cadaver product with my dog. (2:44:56)

And I prayed to God that I didn't want to go look for dead bodies or anything like that. But yet, it turned out that I had to do that. It was just the strangest thing in my lifetime that's ever happened. Well, you know, it's interesting that you bring that up, because one of the things that people do find out in Out-of-Body Travel, I wrote about this in my books, was that we find out that in the mystical spheres, in the celestial cities, Jesus Christ reigns. He reigns as God and supreme ruler. He is the Messiah, which is a station. (2:45:40)

And one of the things you learn very quickly is when you're in trouble with anything demonic or dark, you call on Him. You inherently understand that that's the person who's going to be able to get you out of trouble. And you learn very quickly that there's power in His name and who He is. And it's because He reigns over not just our world, but many worlds. (2:46:08)

I learned in my traveling into the galactic heavens as well, that He is known by other planetary beings. And so this is a mystery that we can't necessarily explain, except that He is what He is. And you find that out very quickly in the Out-of-Body Travel experience, if you're traveling into the cities of light and into these spheres. And I think what you did was you went to one of these places and were called and charged to do this. (2:46:42)

And then when these people understood that, they then did ascend to a higher vibration, a higher frequency, because that is simply the nature of who He is. So it's a great experience. Thank you for sharing it. Marilyn, why do you think prayer works? It's interesting because it's energy. It's energy, it's intention. And there is this intention that we have for one another that is honored in our universe. (2:47:26)

This loving goodwill towards one another. One of the things I have seen, because I have witnessed and been in the presence when prayers are received and been spoken to about, well, this prayer has been received for this person, and then the action is to be taken. (2:47:52)

There is honor and respect towards the good intentions of us towards others and towards humanity. It's energy, but it's also intention. It's also just simply that respectful honor that when we do this, when we ask, you know, it is that simple ask and you shall receive, that there is honor, respect, and it's just honored. I guess that's really just the only way to put it. (2:48:35)

It's honored when we ask for the good of another, even when we're asking for the good of ourselves. It's honored. All right, let's go to Jamestown, North Dakota. Jeremy's with us now. Hello, Jeremy. Hello, George. Marilyn, I have a question. Hi, Jeremy. I was in a tragic car accident over 17 years ago. I was immediately in a coma for two and a half months. I remember when I was in the coma, I think, I was walking up a mountain trail with my now ex-wife, and all of a sudden a bunch of boulders started falling down. (2:49:19)

I pushed her into a crevice, and a boulder knocked me off the cliff, and the next thing I knew, I woke up in a hospital bed. Was that an out-of-body experience? It might have been. And ironically, the boulders coming down might have been the way that you were being told that you were not supposed to cross at that time, that you had to go back. (2:49:48)

You know how you hear with some people who have near-death experiences that they're actually told that by relatives or by a divine being. In your case, it seemed like it was those boulders that were telling you, go back. And so, yes, it very much could have been an out-of-body experience or a near-death encounter of some kind, and you were being instructed to return. (2:50:14)

Could have been a cognitive dream, too, I guess. It could have definitely been that as well, yes. Absolutely. In astral projection, in your particular case, how far out have you gone? Oh, wow. Have you gone to other planetary systems? Oh, yes. Many other planetary systems. And I've gone into the tachyon fields, which are the realms, you know, where the particles are beyond the speed of light. (2:50:41)

I've gone into many different planetary systems. I've gone into, you know, I've gone to the 23rd dimension where the golden angels reside. I've gone into the realms where the masters are. You know, where the masters reside in the galactic heavens is a unique place because they have a lot of real difficult rules as to getting in there. Then there's also all these different places of learning, which are all about. And so it's really hard to put a quantifier on where all these places are and how far out they are. (2:51:26)

But there are these vibrational ways of knowing how far they are. So, yes, I've been to many different planetary systems, many different celestial spheres, hundreds and hundreds of heavenly realms, purgatorial realms, hellish realms, all of those places. (2:51:44)

There really is no limit to the worlds beyond. Let's go west of the Rockies. Paul's with us in the state of Washington. Hi, Paul. Well, thank you, George. Thanks for taking my call. Let me just preface this by saying that Colossians 1.18 says that all realms, I'm paraphrasing, all realms invisible and visible are made for him and by him. And with that said, to your guest, if you can hear my voice, am I in the astral realm? (2:52:25)

Well, the reason I say that is because the things that I see are like what a couple of George's guests, Steve and this other gentleman, I can't remember his name, but the one gentleman says our masters are, they have no fear. We've been fooled and this and Steve says they look amphibian, which would tell me that they're reptiles. And one time I took this picture of this UFO and now that when I looked at that UFO and me and this other girl, you could see a face after face after face. (2:53:01)

And now this artwork that I see is the same. And this is like attacking me, but I did have a couple of thoughts, like the one caller said, that I feel like I'm here because I'm supposed to find somebody. I'm supposed to help somebody get saved because they're always talking about crossing. They can't cross, you know, and I don't remember dying unless I'm being gaslighted. I don't know. (2:53:31)

Do you cross over at all, Marilyn? I'm sorry, what? Can you cross over if you're still alive? No, not permanently. Not like that. So I would say no, you're not. You're not crossed over, Paul. But you may be having an experience where you are existing in both worlds a lot, where you're comfortable in both worlds. And if you feel like there's somebody that you need to help, what I would definitely recommend is to start praying for that person. (2:54:07)

If you're feeling that presence needs assistance, there are specific prayers you can try. You know, the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy is one of those, which is given particular promises that assist souls in crossing over. I utilize that prayer a lot for helping souls in crossing over. But you can utilize whatever kind of prayer you're comfortable with for that soul. You want to start praying. (2:54:37)

Whenever you feel like you have a soul that's nearby and kind of attached and bothering you, it's always an indication, oh, you probably have a soul that you need to start praying for. We forget that when souls are in a purgatorial state, they need prayer. And so we start with that, you know. And then if you have experiences in the antibody travel state, you may be led to offer them some type of assistance. (2:55:08)

Have you had that sort of thing? I get death threats. I get death threats a lot from these spirits or these... I feel like they're demons. (2:55:20)

But they're like using humans to do it because they can't at this time. And I feel like these out-of-body experiences... I don't have out-of-body experiences. But these notes... I'll just tell you. I don't even like to say this because people think I'm a nut. But it's engraved, and I challenge anybody to come to my apartment and look on the wall. And it's all engraved in there, like a life story. (2:55:43)

But these pictures are just... I've seen pictures of hell, which one of George's guests had described. I felt like I was there at one time in a dream. But let me get back to your question. I feel like I'm being threatened. But I think these out-of-body experiences that other people are having are... they're trying to host other people's bodies. They're trying to get in these bodies like... Well, that's what you meant by a leech, Marilyn. We're almost out of time, Marilyn. We only have about a minute and a half left. (2:56:12)

Yeah, in your case, Paul, I would just say you may need more specific help. You may even need to, you know, get a Catholic priest involved. See if you can get some type of... Like an exorcism. Spiritual assistance there. Would it be like an exorcism? Yes. You know, you'd have to have special permission for that. But if he's being threatened, that's definitely, you know, beyond a lost soul or a ghost. (2:56:38)

It's definitely beyond that. And so I would definitely say he might need more help. Are these out-of-body experiences religious experiences for most people? Well, some of them are, but not all of them. You know, because what you have to understand is that, you know, our whole life has a spiritual framework. So there's a spiritual framework to it. And religion falls into it, but it's not a part of every single experience. (2:57:08)

But you will find that they fall into that. And then if you look back into our history, you know, our great religious figures were, you know, oftentimes having out-of-body experiences. And that's where the great revelations came from. In fact, one of the books that I wrote was Near Death and Out-of-Body Experiences of the Prophets, Saints, Mystics, and Sages in World Religions, which talks about and goes to those moments to show these events and experiences that they had, and how, you know, all these great religions were actually founded on out-of-body experiences as well. (2:57:46)

So there's a religious framework that can come into it. That's pretty dramatic, though, Marilyn, to be sure. We're out of time. Marilyn Hughes, thank you so much for being on the program. From Michael Kosio, Dan Galanti, Tom Danheiser, Lisa Lyon, Lex Lonehood, Sean Lattasour, Stephanie Smith, Chris Burrows, Tim Bernal, George Knapp, and Ian Punnett, I'm George Norrie, somewhere out there on Coast to Coast AM. We'll see you on our next edition. (2:58:14)

Until then, be safe, everyone.

(2:58:17)

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